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luckycharms
06-15-2007, 01:22 PM
Hi all,

I wanted to get back into 3D modeling and was hoping to find some good tutorials/training resources.

I already have Larry's (Spline God) CDs and they're excellent. Years ago I completed a human character using splines and am now revisiting his videos. However, I was hoping to learn another technique, like the "Alternate Head Modeling by Dogbite" featured on Kurvstudios (http://www.kurvstudios.com/free_tutorials/lightwave_free_tutorials.php?u=47437)

I think that Dan Alban uses this technique in his books, and that it's called Extrude (?). I couldn't seem to follow it on the written page...I prefer videos where I can watch and rewind, listen to the speaker as he works. Also, Dan seems to use bevels and depth to his shapes, whereas this tutorial uses a flat "mesh".

It appears there are 3 modeling techniques: Splines, Box, and this... Extrude one. From what I can tell, it has the speed of Box modeling, while allowing the definition of Spline modeling. (The video has no sound, so I couldn't tell what tools he's using.)

All help and input appreciated! Thanks!

bloontz
06-15-2007, 01:35 PM
I built a head from one of Dan's tutorials and from what I recall it started with a spline around the eye socket and used the Extender tool extensively to create bands of polys that were scaled out and teaked. I'll try to find the books.

bloontz
06-15-2007, 01:59 PM
Found the book. He starts with the pen tool to draw a spline around the eye socket then uses Bevel to extend the spline out to a band of polys a number of times then tweaks them. He uses Extender and scale on a section of polys around the brow and nose bridge. That should get you started.

Surrealist.
06-15-2007, 02:21 PM
Hi all,

I wanted to get back into 3D modeling and was hoping to find some good tutorials/training resources.

I already have Larry's (Spline God) CDs and they're excellent. Years ago I completed a human character using splines and am now revisiting his videos. However, I was hoping to learn another technique, like the "Alternate Head Modeling by Dogbite" featured on Kurvstudios (http://www.kurvstudios.com/free_tutorials/lightwave_free_tutorials.php?u=47437)

I think that Dan Alban uses this technique in his books, and that it's called Extrude (?). I couldn't seem to follow it on the written page...I prefer videos where I can watch and rewind, listen to the speaker as he works. Also, Dan seems to use bevels and depth to his shapes, whereas this tutorial uses a flat "mesh".

It appears there are 3 modeling techniques: Splines, Box, and this... Extrude one. From what I can tell, it has the speed of Box modeling, while allowing the definition of Spline modeling. (The video has no sound, so I couldn't tell what tools he's using.)

All help and input appreciated! Thanks!

Have you looked at the tutorials on Larry's website?

The one on starting the head goes into another technique which is getting popular these days.

www.splinegod.com

It is in the free videos section, I think it is called starting the human head or something like that.

It is basically the concept of putting your poly flow on a polygon.

I kind of like to approach it from the side view my self.

But also another great resource for modeling techniques is Colin Larkin's Website (http://www.puffandlarkin.com/lightwave/tutorials/character_modelling/).

luckycharms
06-15-2007, 03:21 PM
Thanks, bloontz. I have his book too but couldn't really follow it... The snapshots are few and far between, and the descriptions are either too vague ("now select shape and bend it") or too specific ("now enter all these exact coordinates for each of the 4 bevels"). Personally, it's not suited for me.

Plus, he uses bevels and the dogbite tutorial (or Larry's) don't use bevels. I know I'm kind new at this, but even I presume that you wouldn't "need" to bevel a face. :stumped:

Surrealist, I checked Larry's site...that video is part of the CDs I have. I should've clarified that he doesn't use "splines" in the pure sense, I guess. Sorry, I'm not versed in the terminology yet.

The Larkin site looks cool: video and voice tutorials! Can't beat it. I've seen that method once before, but I never really tried it. Now I will.

Well, I'm still hoping someone can tell me the technique/tools used in the dogbite video. I'd like to practice all the techniques and have a well-rounded idea of what you can/can't do.

Thanks guys!

bloontz
06-15-2007, 04:36 PM
Well I took a look at the video. It's different than dan's method but similar concept. Looks like he is starting with a box primitive with no depth, so basically a polygon. Seems to be working with symetry on. Then he looks to be using the Extender tool alot. He selects groups of point, uses extender, then moves the geometry created by extender. Esentially what extender is doing is extruding the edges of poly to make new polys. Once you get a feel for what it does you'll have a better idea of what goin on in the video.

luckycharms
06-15-2007, 05:24 PM
Thanks, bloontz. That's exactly what I thought. I gave it a shot and it seemed to work ok, but then I got to the bridge of the nose...it got ugly fast.

What I can't figure out is how he uses the extender tool with symmetry on, because when you select the 2 points to the left (say to make the left nostril), the 2 points to the right are automically selected because of symmetry. Thus, all 4 points of the box are now selected, and the extender tool thinks I want to extend the whole box. It makes weird overlapping polygons--instead of just shooting out the 2 points on either side of the nose (like it does on the video). So what's his trick?

I think this kind of modelling is easier than Dan's method and would love to practice it. Any help with that would be appreciated.

(By the way, what kind of technique do you and the others use?)

Surrealist.
06-15-2007, 06:16 PM
I am working on a tutorial called "The Fundamentals of Subpatch Modeling"

It is over at www.lightwiki.com in the tutorials section.

It is definitely a work in progress. My intention is to put as many of the things that I know and are known about subpatch modeling as I can in one place.

I have gone through and used every method out there and have sort of come up with my own approach. But what I have been doing is breaking this down into simple universal tenants that I think apply no matter what method you use.

I do agree that it is a good idea to learn these tools separately, then do tutorials. It makes things much faster.

Let me know what you think of what I have so far and if it is any help.

In the end really, you have the right idea. Learning as much as you can and of course - model - a lot!

bloontz
06-15-2007, 07:04 PM
He starts by extending the bottom points a few times than he makes a cut down the center, which is the step you are probably missing. If you look carefully he uses extender once before making the center cut and has the same problem you're talking about. He then undoes the extend, makes the cut down the center, then extender works okay with symmetry.

SplineGod
06-15-2007, 07:40 PM
luckycharms,
The videos you have show how to model with subpatches starting with a single polygon in much the same way you would start a sketch of a human head. The video also shows how to model using splines. Ive also got a video that specficially focuses on modeling a head with splines.
Mainly Ive found that techniques that follow more traditional approaches are easiest to learn. This typically starts from a more general primitive shape and works into the details.

Mr Big
06-15-2007, 08:27 PM
Great tutorials thank you

luckycharms
06-15-2007, 09:28 PM
he makes a cut down the center, which is the step you are probably missing...then extender works okay with symmetry.

Thanks bloontz! I was starting to think it was magic :D Good to know I was on the right track. I'll attempt that method very soon.


I have gone through and used every method out there and have sort of come up with my own approach. But what I have been doing is breaking this down into simple universal tenants that I think apply no matter what method you use....In the end really, you have the right idea. Learning as much as you can and of course - model - a lot!

Richard, you share my philosophy. I want to try everything and eventually come up with my own style. I'm a print designer, so hopefully I can learn enough to use it with print, then, as time allows, get into the more complex lighting and rigging. I tell you, that telephone-sized manual is daunting!:eek: By the way, great site. Looks like it's part of Newtek. I will explore it fully in the coming days.


luckycharms,
The videos you have show how to model with subpatches starting with a single polygon in much the same way you would start a sketch of a human head...This typically starts from a more general primitive shape and works into the details.

Hi Larry, great to see you on the forum! Subpatches...yes, that's what they're called:p I love those CDs, and I definitely prefer the "detail in" method over Alban's "detail out". I'm actually working on Colin Larkin's tutorial right now: it starts with a spline but gets shaped fairly quickly...we'll see how it goes. Perhaps I'll be viewing your spline videos in the future. Keep up the good work!