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sammael
06-12-2007, 11:39 PM
I thought it might be nice to have some sort of an official challenge on this forum, I know theres plenty of that sort of stuff on other sites but I think it would be nice to have one here.
People who are trying to learn like myself could benifit greatly, at least the imput from other users would be software specific and it would give some of us something to do when we are lacking in inspiration.
Just a thought but im all for it, im wondering what other people think?

v1u1ant
06-13-2007, 06:23 AM
I like the idea.

Ztreem
06-13-2007, 06:41 AM
Why not, I think it's a good idea.

jameswillmott
06-13-2007, 06:50 AM
Make the challenges have some constraints, for a bit of interest.

Andyjaggy
06-13-2007, 08:42 AM
Sounds like a great idea. how about the first challenge be a spaceship scene :)

sammael
06-13-2007, 08:49 AM
Hmm ok lets let this thread run its course for a while then and see what others think, feel free to contribute ideas for what the challenge could consist of as well.
I was thinking modeling and texturing an object of some sort, nothing too complex but something challenging and not too specific. At least nothing so specific that people would not be interested due to limitations of the subject.

It would be nice to see some original ideas too. Perhaps a sci-fi or fantasy subject?

Iain
06-13-2007, 08:58 AM
How about a rendering of a semi clad young girl, preferably with some sort of sci fi storyline to justify her lack of clothes?

She can be as badly modelled as you like (it's hard to get the details right when your hands are shaking,) but she must be slim with enormous, gravity defying breasts.
Alternatively, she can be in a bikini or French maid's outfit.

Entries will be judged on how 'hot' she is, dude.



Seriously though, it is a good idea. Just has to be thought out properly.

CMT
06-13-2007, 09:21 AM
I'm in if it's not too long of a challenge.

How about a self portrait caricature figure of yourself as a villian? Could be sci fi or fantasy.

Or... pick one mythological creature and see everybody's interpretation of that creature. Like a werewolf or cyclops.

Or something a little bit more industrial like design your own game console. The name and look of it.

starbase1
06-13-2007, 09:25 AM
Nice idea - but I think a spaceship would be way too specific.

How about a surfacing challenge, something like 'best dielectric surface'?

The advantages would include:

1. It's an challenge that would be easy to enter, even for newbies.
2. We'd end up with a bunch of surfaces we could all use.
3. Relevant to almost every rendering style.
4. It's an area that many are currently exploring in the relatively new 9.2 release.

All we would need to do is knock up 3 or 4 glass type objects suitable for coloured or clear glass. and let people get cracking...

Nick

Iain
06-13-2007, 09:27 AM
How about a surfacing challenge, something like 'best dielectric surface'?

2. We'd end up with a bunch of surfaces we could all use.
3. Relevant to almost every rendering style.




Thass good. :thumbsup:

sammael
06-13-2007, 09:28 AM
Seriously though, it is a good idea. Just has to be thought out properly.

I agree, if we can flesh it out a bit and theres enough people interested perhaps we can try to get one of the mods to create a specific section in the forum for it.
Hopefully someone at NT will take up the idea, I think more people would be interested if it was more of an 'official' event. Im not talking prizes and things just propper rules and a specific time limit impoised by an official moderator.

Dexter2999
06-13-2007, 09:28 AM
They started the challenge thing ....gee has it been two years? Model a new LW mascot (the Aborigine (sp?)) and then the texturing challenge with the bald girl.

I don't know why they fell off the map. Then again I don't think they were ever under the forum. They were on the LW page. Does anyone remember for sure?

Wonderpup
06-13-2007, 10:02 AM
(it's hard to get the details right when your hands are shaking,)


One of the few occassions reading a forum when I really did laugh out loud:D

I like the idea of technique focused challenges, rather than subject driven one's- like how to create a given surface effect in nodes, or specific particle effects or something. These would take less time to do and would be a great way to learn new stuff.

CMT
06-13-2007, 10:28 AM
Sounds like there's cause for having different challenges. Personally, I'd rather see a subject driven challenge. At the end of the challenge, you could have something (if you did it well) to put in your portfolio/reel.

sammael
06-13-2007, 10:29 AM
I like the idea of something with a bit more substance to it, like CMT suggested. A seperate section for mini challenges would be nice as well though for those of us who lack the time and/or motivation to participate in something more involved.
The idea of having to complete something substantial within a given time limit is what appeals to me, good practice.

sammael
06-13-2007, 10:30 AM
hehe... you read my mind :)

Skinner3D
06-13-2007, 10:57 AM
I think it would be fun to do a three step challenge. In that the first one we do something like 'model something with four legs a tail and wings' (maybe more specific) and then the next challenge we surface the previous object like ' make a metallic surface with a blue sheen' (or something strange like that) and in the third challenge we use the previous surfaced and modeled thing and make a basic animation 'create a daytime scene with lake and make the model do a basic walk/run animation' (you get the picture)

If done well this would be portfolio material like someone already mentioned, and like sammael says it would have sustanace.

Anyway that's my two cents worth.:D

serge
06-13-2007, 11:09 AM
... Personally, I'd rather see a subject driven challenge. At the end of the challenge, you could have something (if you did it well) to put in your portfolio/reel.
Yes, but I don't think it's much more interesting than the general WIP threads (in terms of learning and sharing techniques).
I really like those CGTalk challenges like car-crashes or animated-ocean. You learn a lot from those by watching peoples different approaches.
But I would also like to see tool-specific challenges like Particle-, Dynamics-, SimpleSkin-, Dielectric-, etc.

Exception
06-13-2007, 11:39 AM
KITTENS

itc
06-13-2007, 11:54 AM
Especially getting fur and eyes, and perhaps the razor sharp claws digging into someone's leg...
We won't even get into the blood oozing or clothing tears...

starbase1
06-13-2007, 12:32 PM
I really don't see what newtek can add that we can't do fo ourselves...

How about starting with something simple for the first challenge, and then seeing if people have the appetite for more?

The problem with something like 'do a spaceship' is that it takes a LOT of effort, and a rather wide range of skills... (And I like doing spaceships!) So you would also need a long running time to give people a chance to produce something good.

But we can collect ideas here in this thread for a while, then post a poll and let those interested choose. I suggest it is specifically phrased as:

"I would enter a challenge on the topic of..."

Nick

Qexit
06-13-2007, 01:32 PM
I really don't see what newtek can add that we can't do fo ourselves...
Prizes :D

Andyjaggy
06-13-2007, 02:09 PM
IThe challenge could be completley open, the only requirement is that there has to be a cat in it somewhere.

The only thing we need from Newtek would be for them to open up a new section in the forum for us to do this in.

hrgiger
06-13-2007, 05:45 PM
What about something that we could leave open for some creative interpretation. Something like: A) has to include a dialectic surface B) Must be a recognizable object with (to be announced) theme and must be made totally with Lightwave.

Oh, and I think someone should donate a prize of some kind.

Stooch
06-13-2007, 06:41 PM
i wouldn't mind partaking in a ***** modeling/rendering challenge.

and by ***** i mean cat.

we could have a gallery of cats and have people pick any pic they like for reference or even find one of their own (as long as they show the reference) it could be a simple hand sketch or a statue even. as long as we see the reference before the project starts.

of course one problem i can see right away is lws lack of a real hair plugin.. hint hint ;)

sammael
06-14-2007, 03:33 AM
Yeah I think something that did not involve fur would be better and preferably did not involve cats either :)

Im just waiting for that elusive NT guy to pick this up and make it official then they can decide on the suject/s...
Or at least make a section in the forum for this type of thing... HINT HINT

starbase1
06-14-2007, 12:51 PM
Why does it need a forum and not a thread? At least until it is established?

Why can we not choose our own topic, possibly via a poll?

Unless you are hoping for a free prize, what are Newtek going to do for us?

Post a poll, and just start a thread with a relevant subject line.
Nick

lilrayray77
06-14-2007, 02:26 PM
What about judges? Would it be community picked or would a few specific members be chosen to decide the winners?

starbase1
06-14-2007, 02:55 PM
Another poll - when it closes post a message with a poll to vote on the best one . Assuming you need to have a winner at all...

Nick

sammael
06-15-2007, 01:55 AM
Why does it need a forum and not a thread? At least until it is established?

Why can we not choose our own topic, possibly via a poll?

Unless you are hoping for a free prize, what are Newtek going to do for us?

Post a poll, and just start a thread with a relevant subject line.
Nick

I just think a thread would become very cluttered if all the entrants used the same one. If we had a thread for each entry that area of the forum would be overrun too, maybe thats a good thing though NT might be forced to create a whole new section for this type of thing.
The poll vote is a good idea, perhaps we should start with that.

hrgiger
06-15-2007, 02:44 AM
You could always have people create their own folder on flikr or some other free file hosting site that we could link to directly. Or somebody should just make a website specifically for Newtek 3D challenges.

starbase1
06-15-2007, 03:58 AM
CG Society do challenges with lots of participants at one thread per challenge, and it works just fine.

LWG3D do a voting thing based on people having their own threads if they want lots of feedback for devoping heavy duty challenges, and a separate thread for voting when it closes...

This really is not rocket science guys!

Let's think of all the reasonable options for a challenge, set up a vote, and run with it.

Something like, perhaps:

Simple surfacing challenge. (E'g. great glass / metal)
Advanced surfacing challenge on supplied object. (E.g. face, landscape).
Modelling challenge for simple object. (E.g. chess piece, eye).
Modelling challenge for advanced object. (E.g. big knobbly space ship, creature)
Combined modelling and surfacing. (Space ship with textures)
Lighting challenge.
Image challenge. (E.g. picture of a foggy scene)

Also questions like: Do we want resources and stuff developed to be shared? How long should it run for?

If web space is needed to host resources required to enter, e.g. objects to be surfaced, I can provide that.

Nick

sammael
06-15-2007, 05:24 AM
Your on the ball Nick!, perhaps you should start the poll :D
That seems like enough options to me.

starbase1
06-15-2007, 06:43 AM
Let's just give people a day or so more to check it over - it's always irritating when the first response to a poll is "You forgot to include...!"

I think it should also be a poll where people can select more than one option, so we can see how many different ones people would go for.

Once we find out the type of challenge people want, we can have a second one to refine the subject matter.

Andyjaggy
06-15-2007, 07:15 AM
Yeah I think something that did not involve fur would be better and preferably did not involve cats either :)

Im just waiting for that elusive NT guy to pick this up and make it official then they can decide on the suject/s...
Or at least make a section in the forum for this type of thing... HINT HINT

Cat hater.

Andyjaggy
06-15-2007, 07:16 AM
Lets go for it guys, not sure that I would have time to participate but I think it would be awesome anyways. There is really no reason to not do it as long as we have people willing to put in a little time making it work.

sammael
06-15-2007, 08:55 AM
Good plan Nick.



Cat hater.
I can see you love yours, feeding him up like that! ;)

hrgiger
06-15-2007, 09:03 AM
Cat hater.

There's plenty of reasons to hate cats. Like they steal your soul when you sleep as a good first example.

oDDity
06-15-2007, 10:14 AM
I volunteer to be a judge.

hrgiger
06-15-2007, 10:35 AM
I volunteer to be a judge.

God help us, I mean if you believe in that sort of thing.

sammael
06-15-2007, 10:46 AM
I volunteer to be a judge.

Seems appropriate to me, you always need a realy harsh prick guy on the panel. Someone who is realy picky and willing to make people cry.
:D
Dont worry oDDity im 'kinda' joking, im all for it, you have good a knack for picking out problem areas and a good eye for detail I think.

Skinner3D
06-15-2007, 10:58 AM
Simple surfacing challenge. (E'g. great glass / metal)
Advanced surfacing challenge on supplied object. (E.g. face, landscape).
Modelling challenge for simple object. (E.g. chess piece, eye).
Modelling challenge for advanced object. (E.g. big knobbly space ship, creature)
Combined modelling and surfacing. (Space ship with textures)
Lighting challenge.
Image challenge. (E.g. picture of a foggy scene)

Also questions like: Do we want resources and stuff developed to be shared? How long should it run for?


:stumped: I think you have all of the bases covered so far.

Would the image challenge be with supplied objects, or would we have to make the objects?




I volunteer to be a judge.


Only if you were on the final panel, meaning we get down to the last two or three and then you judge. No fair saying "Neither of these are good enough to win":). This would give the 'Not-perfects' a chance at the competition, without being shot down at the starting gate. (myself included :D)
But otherwise agreed

sammael
06-15-2007, 11:03 AM
Would the image challenge be with supplied objects, or would we have to make the objects?


Thats the type of thing we are trying to establish, it seems more appropriate to me that the modeling would be part of the challenge.
I for one am not realy interested in applying a texture to someone elses work, unless it was part of a texturing mini challenge, I think it would be nice to cover a few more bases in the challenge than that though personally.

Skinner3D
06-15-2007, 11:08 AM
Would combining several of these challeges into one bigger challenge cover more bases or did I misunderstand?

sammael
06-15-2007, 11:12 AM
Would combining several of these challeges into one bigger challenge cover more bases or did I misunderstand?
We are simply toying with ideas with the view to conducting a poll to establish what the majority of participants would be interested in at this stage.

kevinone
06-15-2007, 01:49 PM
How about a dungeon theme. Make it fun, list a basic format to follow and lets get started!

Andyjaggy
06-15-2007, 01:58 PM
I volunteer to be a judge.

Sounds good to me. We need someone who will give an honest, if somewhat brutal and harsh delivery of the pieces.

I'll be a judge to if you'll have me :)

starbase1
06-16-2007, 04:47 AM
A dungeon theme would certainly make for an interesting lighting challenge.

starbase1
06-16-2007, 04:55 AM
Look, don't sweat it guys - who said the challenges have to be exclusive? There's nothing to stop us doing all of these in sequence, or at the same time if we choose. No reason at all a bunch of us can't be applying gorgeous glass surfacing to a vase while another bunch are invading the galaxy next door...

Some of you really don't seem to get this new fangled interweb thingy!

hrgiger
06-16-2007, 05:13 AM
I liked how spinquad ran a challenge with an advanced and a simpler challenge running side by side.

sammael
06-16-2007, 11:19 AM
I liked how spinquad ran a challenge with an advanced and a simpler challenge running side by side.

I like that idea as well.
Be nice if a few more people would voice their interest?
So far theres about 15 of us.

v1u1ant
06-17-2007, 05:33 AM
I wouldn't have the time to spend on huge builds and initially envisaged snappy, quick, learn from this, lightwave only, technique orientated types of challenge.

As some people also want more subject orientated challenges then maybe we need levels, or we break it up into sections. depends how long we envisage these challenges running, how many people will participate in them.

As we dont have prizes surely the prize for all of us is learning more about what we do, learning more about lightwave.

starbase1
06-17-2007, 08:32 AM
I wouldn't have the time to spend on huge builds and initially envisaged snappy, quick, learn from this, lightwave only, technique orientated types of challenge.

As some people also want more subject orientated challenges then maybe we need levels, or we break it up into sections. depends how long we envisage these challenges running, how many people will participate in them.

As we dont have prizes surely the prize for all of us is learning more about what we do, learning more about lightwave.

That's pretty much exactly my view. With something simple like a glass or metal surface it will be easy to enter, we can learn from each other, and share the results for everyones benefit.

If someone want a major model building exercise I don't see what majking it a challenge adds.

Nick

sammael
06-17-2007, 09:28 AM
If someone want a major model building exercise I don't see what majking it a challenge adds.


For one its good practice to try to complete something within a given time limit. Also I think its a bit more exciting following a complete creative process than say a simple surface preset. Thirdly it would provide some of us with motivation, direction and valuable advice.
I do like the idea of smaller challenges as well but to me those are the benifits of something more substantial.

*Pete*
06-17-2007, 11:58 AM
I like the way the challenges at cgtalk work also.

they come up with a consept for the challenge (for example a car crash)

then there is, say 3 different challenges for the same consept.

easy, medium and hard.

easy being..well..perhaps a simple car collision and some deformation of the car, and hard would be cinematic, photorealistic collision with advanced effects and such.

sometimes the challenge could be divided for example,
Modelling (judged by the model, polyflow and detail)
Still image (modelling, composition, lighting and texturing)
Animation (animation, modelling. composition, lighting and texturing)

and i agree with those who ask for a timelimit...winners are decided at a decided date, but new unjudged entries can be added later on as they get finished.

starbase1
06-17-2007, 01:24 PM
Just an idea, but if there are several people interested in a spacecraft type challenge, how about a cooperative effort, rather than a competitive one?

Some time back I did a modular space station, the idea being to get a bunch of component modules that I could put together in different ways for different purposes...

In this case the key thing was the junction modules, define the connection pipe thingy, and the length of a major module...

What I am thinking of for this one would be possibly something along the lines of a 'space train', by which I mean a bunch of modules you could put together in sequence... So you could do a command module, a propulsion module, a fuel module, a sensor module, a cargo module, a solar panel module, escape capsules...

Then at the end we share them, and can combine them in many ways...

Nick

starbase1
06-17-2007, 01:38 PM
Just an idea, but if there are several people interested in a spacecraft type challenge, how about a cooperative effort, rather than a competitive one?

Some time back I did a modular space station, the idea being to get a bunch of component modules that I could put together in different ways for different purposes...

In this case the key thing was the junction modules, define the connection pipe thingy, and the length of a major module...

http://www.starbase1.co.uk/galleries/Graphics/Astro%20%20Space/Station/slides/neafinal0001.html

What I am thinking of for this one would be possibly something along the lines of a 'space train', by which I mean a bunch of modules you could put together in sequence... So you could do a command module, a propulsion module, a fuel module, a sensor module, a cargo module, a solar panel module, escape capsules...

Then at the end we share them, and can combine them in many ways...

Nick

kevinone
06-17-2007, 02:24 PM
I like the way the challenges at cgtalk work also.

they come up with a consept for the challenge (for example a car crash)

then there is, say 3 different challenges for the same consept.

easy, medium and hard.

easy being..well..perhaps a simple car collision and some deformation of the car, and hard would be cinematic, photorealistic collision with advanced effects and such.

sometimes the challenge could be divided for example,
Modelling (judged by the model, polyflow and detail)
Still image (modelling, composition, lighting and texturing)
Animation (animation, modelling. composition, lighting and texturing)

and i agree with those who ask for a timelimit...winners are decided at a decided date, but new unjudged entries can be added later on as they get finished.



Perfect! You need some judges to get with the creator of this thread and setup the format for the challange, Pete just nailed it. Oddity said he would like to be a judge and I think he would be a great one; read two post lately and was very impressed with how he expressed him self. Andyjaggy is a nother, if he can find someone to feed his cat:), need one more!, maybe exception?, or hawk
What ever the theme is make it fun, I'm pretty new to lightwave so what ever it is I will learn from it. This is a great Idea to get people interested in LW, and learn more about it! I think a good prize would be to have the winner posted on the intro page on the main NT web site! This is a good Idea as long as the judges are kind and informative in their comments about the art, be constructive not destructive.

starbase1
06-18-2007, 03:56 AM
A few things then...

1. Do we want to go for a panel of judges, as opposed to letting everyone vote on what is best?

If we do have the panel I think we need to determine what the challenge is before picking the judges! While Oddity would be an excellent choice for realistic character or creature modelling, others may be better for (say) SF or achitectural...

2. There seems to be general consensus that we want an advanced heavy duty challenge as well as a simple one. Does anyone have any options to add to the polls before we go ahead, above what I suggested before?

Iain
06-18-2007, 04:17 AM
Fire up the polls!

starbase1
06-18-2007, 07:44 AM
Fire up the polls!

Done!
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70068

I figure that's enough to get us started for the first ones...
Nick