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stevenyc
06-07-2007, 11:34 AM
I'm experiencing a really wierd problem in modeler. I have a simple coffee mug object which I applied an image map to using cylindrical projection. After positioning the image the way I wanted it, whenever I moved the object the texture would not move with it. The texture would roll around the model in different directions according to how I moved, rotated or scaled the object. See my attached jpg.

I tried making a UV map. The texture stuck to the object when I moved it. However, I could not rotate the texture around the object the way I wanted to. I tried the texture guide along with the numerical panel. When I plugged in the minor rotation adjustment the way I wanted it the texture rotated but shifted vertically to the bottom of the object, so I went back to not using a UV, only I had to not move the object. Everything is fine when in LW.

I experimented with primitives and other objects, restarted my computer, used different textures and image maps but the same thing still happens.

Is this a 9.2 bug or a new feature that I somehow activated?

drclare
06-07-2007, 11:52 AM
As far as I know it's not a bug, just the way it has always been. When you apply a texture using any projection method other than UV, that texture is being applied in world space. Therefore, if you change the object in modeller, the texture itself is not moving, just the surface it is laying on. Now I thought that if you moved or rotated the object in Layout that you would get the same problem, but maybe I'm wrong about that. As far as positioning a UV texture, you pretty much need to plan all of that out in the image map itself before you apply it to your object. You can same an image of your UV map in LW to use as a reference in your image editor to place the texture where you want it.

stevenyc
06-07-2007, 01:45 PM
drclare,
thanks for the reply. you are correct, the texture does move in LW. Of course i am not experienced in LW but still I don't understand why the non-uv tools are in LW. I've been reading the manuals and they explain how to use the tools but fail to mention what you are explaining to me. I take it that the position/rotation adjustments using texture guide and the uv window are only for minor adjustments, correct. When I use those, everthing responds but disappears into the seam, or the edge of the texture map. I did reposition my image in photoshop but so far not much luck, especially since modeler keeps crashing everytime i start making minor adjustments in the uv viewport.

I really want to learn LW, even it the more simpler stuff for what I need it for. I might try using photoshop extended to see it that is easier. Anyway, thank you for your help.

Snosrap
06-07-2007, 03:01 PM
This is the way it has worked since the beginning of time. In layout the image will move with the object. Some artists build complete "sets" in modeler and then bring the "set" into layout for rendering. I don't work like that, I build "set pieces" in modeler on the "rest on ground" axis and then import them into layout to create my "sets". Seems way more flexible to me, plus you won't run into these issues with texturing.

Cheers
Snos

stevenyc
06-07-2007, 03:58 PM
Thank you so much for your help. Definitely a big help for me. I know a bit more about lightwave now. I'll have to post more questions from now on.

I just tried another approach which seems to work. I imported the same object from modeler into LW but without a texture. I then applied a texture but without a UV map. The texture so far is sticking to the object whereever I move it. Yea! I hope this will be helpful for you also.

Best Regards,
Steve

stevenyc
06-07-2007, 04:24 PM
Something elso I just realize a second ago! If you directly send a non-UV, textured object from modeler to Layout, the texture will not move with the object. However, if you import the same object into layout, the texture sticks! double yea!

Snosrap
06-07-2007, 08:32 PM
Something elso I just realize a second ago! If you directly send a non-UV, textured object from modeler to Layout, the texture will not move with the object. However, if you import the same object into layout, the texture sticks! double yea!

That would be a bug. Not supposed to work that way. The "Send object to layout" is the same as "loading" an object in layout. Notice how the option is ghosted if you have not save the object. Layout references all objects to the saved location on the HD. The "Send object to layout" button is just a nice user friendly thing.

Cheers
Snosrap

toby
06-08-2007, 02:48 PM
It may help to think of it this way - Modeler is JUST for modeleing, moving things into place should always be done in Layout.

Also, moving geometry in Modeler layer is not like moving the actual object; it's moving the geometry in the object, which you will understand when you take the object into Layout and see that the pivot point is still at 0,0,0.

Texture projections other than UV are based on 0,0,0 point of Modeler so that you don't have to deal with UV's at all. There is also the Autosize button which will move the texture to where the geometry is.

toby
06-08-2007, 03:02 PM
Something elso I just realize a second ago! If you directly send a non-UV, textured object from modeler to Layout, the texture will not move with the object. However, if you import the same object into layout, the texture sticks! double yea!
Make sure you do not have "World coordinates" checked in the texture layer -

stevenyc
06-10-2007, 04:49 PM
This morning I was googling around for lightwave tutorials. Came across a texturing tutorial and mentioned about world coordinates', if on, the object moved through the texture. But if off, the texture would stick.

Here's the cool part. I went to modeler and tested this out again, and yes, the texture would not stick like we all know. Hmmm. I sent the object to layout and tried this there. If w.c.s were off, the texture would move with the object. However, if world coordinates was ON, the object moved through the texture!!

My take? World coordinates in modeler has never worked the was it's supposed to. Hah!

~s~

toby
06-10-2007, 08:10 PM
Well, not quite. Like I said, moving geometry in Modeler is not like moving the actual object; it's moving the geometry in the object. The center of the object is still 0,0,0, and that's where non-uv projections are based. There's no 'world coordinates' in Modeler, only the coordinates of the object.

If you've ever used a 3D program that has it's modeler and layout integrated together like 3DSMax, you'll notice that there's an 'object' mode and a 'sub-object' mode - the sub-object mode being where you can alter the geometry - if you move geometry in Max's sub-object mode, the same thing will happen; non-uv texture maps don't stick. LW's Modeler is basically in sub-object mode all the time, since it's only there for altering geometry.

I know it's a bit to wrap your head around, but take my word for it, it's not broken - once you understand it it's simple and effective.

stevenyc
06-10-2007, 10:22 PM
so the world coordinates option in modeler is actually for layout only. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clarifying this

~s~

Snosrap
06-11-2007, 07:19 PM
My take? World coordinates in modeler has never worked the was it's supposed to. Hah!

~s~

That would be one of the longest standing bugs in the history of LW then. But as Toby says, that's just not the way modeler works.

Cheers
Snos