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IMI
05-28-2007, 06:22 AM
I'm curious. For those of you who model human or humanoid figures, what sort of references do you use for proportion?
For example, say you have a human who is 5'10", and another who is only 4'8" tall. Would their heads tend to be the same size?
What if one is an adult and the other is a child?

How about the head size thing for proportion? I mean, the chart that (I think) Michelangelo (or was it da Vinci?) made, showing that a human is 7 heads tall.

That whole big "LW Woman" thread in the Gallery section here really got me thinking about anatomy and proportion. I've been looking at pictures, reading on the www and looking at my friends and family ( everybody's asking me why am I staring at them. :D ).
I've been doing so much of that, I seem to have lost focus, like when you say a word so many times, it loses its meaning.

If you're just modeling a human or humanoid and you want it to be realistic, what guides or reference material do you use for proportions? Details come later, it would seem to me; I would think that proportion would be the first thing to get right. Then again, I know very little about character modeling.

UnCommonGrafx
05-28-2007, 06:31 AM
Go to your local bookstore or to the half-priced bookstore and get yourself an anatomy book. Most of the books I've seen talk about these proportions, and the like, and should be of use to you.

Keep staring. ;) It will definitely help in the long run. Wait until you get to ears... Walking up to people and telling them you want to study their ear gets you some odd looks. But it amazes me how after they get the explanation, they'll show off their ears like a model on the runway! lol

borkus
05-28-2007, 06:39 AM
wait until your laying with your old lady some night and you say you want to run bandglue a couple of times on the polys on her forehead. and are constantly wanting to tweak all the vertices she has... maybe even take her into zb3 and use some of the new features, so long as it doesn't crash. i love her too much for that. then you know you've gone past the point of no return...

UnCommonGrafx
05-28-2007, 07:00 AM
Gotta say it: ZB3 is SO cool!! And yes, I would use it on the missus if she would let me. hehe

IMI
05-28-2007, 07:25 AM
LOL!

Yeah, I have to admit I've thought about that too. :D

Any suggestions for book titles? There's so much out there it's overwhelming. I'm not concerned too much about cost - books are a luxury I allow myself, but still I'm kinda picky.
There was one we used in an art class in high school which had all that in there regarding proportions. It had alot of charts and diagrams and photos and drawings, but I can't for the life of me remember the title or author, and can't seem to find it on the 'net, just randomly clicking links.

Ideally, of course, I'd like to find a book which deals specifically with 3D modeling an entire human from the ground up, in LightWave. That, however, doesn't seem to exist. Dan Ablan has a nice head tutorial in Inside LightWave 7, but that's all it is - a head.

bluerider
05-28-2007, 07:37 AM
I sketch the figure every single day, so I'm always thinging about the proportions. It has to become intuative. I see some who try and approach it like a mechanical protect going through part by part.

You have to develop a feel for whats right and that comes through years of detailed observation.

Reference, I use Bridgemand and Hogarth mainly because they distill the information. By distill i mean they emphasis anatomical information. They make you aware of the understructor.

The trick is transfering that information to the 3D app of choice. As a tool then it becomes a case of getting LightWave to feel like an intuative process of technique that also takes time.

I use a lot of figurines as well that are a various collection of styles.

oDDity
05-28-2007, 07:43 AM
THe best books out there are actually free, and those are the Andrew Loomis books.

http://www.artworld.si/andrew_loomis_books_downloads-t1772.art

bluerider
05-28-2007, 07:44 AM
These are to awesome books that are great studies and prompts=

http://www.cataloglink.com/op/~Constructive_Anatomy_-oprod-5900285-~0

http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Anatomy-Expanded-Burne-Hogarth/dp/0823015521/ref=sr_1_1/002-8891868-4824818?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180359791&sr=8-1

UnCommonGrafx
05-28-2007, 07:47 AM
I would suggest NOT to get any 3D book on building the human figure: they will be mechanical and not realistic, as Bluerider alludes to. Instead, I'd go looking for the Anatomy book you spoke of.

No, I don't have any recommendations. The fun you have ahead is that you get to rummage through a few books on the topic.

Mind you, the second hand bookstore is something I always suggest because there are old and out of print JEWELS in stores of that nature, particularly if you are in a college town or near a college. Books like the one you mentioned are often found sitting on a shelf, reduced to a dollar just to get rid of it. That's my kind of reference.

Remember, you aren't looking for the newest and greatest as the human form is quite ... long in the tooth on explanations.


Oh, and muscle magazines are REALLY cool for exaggerated examples.

UnCommonGrafx
05-28-2007, 07:50 AM
Holy crap, Oddity! Great ref site!

Thanks.

sammael
05-28-2007, 08:01 AM
thanks for the links oDDity & bluerider, this is another good one that I picked up a few years ago
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anatomy-Drawing-School/dp/3833125284
Its great because it has animals as well, though not as in-depth as one would like in some places

bluerider
05-28-2007, 08:08 AM
thanks for the links oDDity & bluerider, this is another good one that I picked up a few years ago
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anatomy-Drawing-School/dp/3833125284
Its great because it has animals as well, though not as in-depth as one would like in some places
sammael,
I'll have to check that book out you have provided the link for.

Here are two I use alot.

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Animal-Drawing-Construction-Instruction/dp/0486274268/ref=cm_lmf_tit_23_rlrsrs1/002-8891868-4824818

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0399508023/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-8891868-4824818#reader-link

bluerider
05-28-2007, 08:11 AM
THe best books out there are actually free, and those are the Andrew Loomis books.

http://www.artworld.si/andrew_loomis_books_downloads-t1772.art

Awesome solid material for anatomy. Thanks for providing that. :)

IMI
05-28-2007, 08:11 AM
Thanks for the links and the advice. :)

I'll try to do that - study some and just draw, but eventually I'm going to have to learn, technically, how to start a model of this nature. mechanical things don't give me much trouble, and I do have a pretty good insight into Modeler's more common tools, but, honestly I wouldn't know where to start with a human mesh.

All in good time, I suppose. :D

oDDity
05-28-2007, 08:14 AM
O, I'll make a quick video of one way to start a basic human model in LW, just a base mesh that you might take into a scupting app.
It's easy when you see how.
Just a matter of beveling (or rather extending) discs.

IMI
05-28-2007, 08:30 AM
Cool. Thank you. :)

bluerider
05-28-2007, 08:32 AM
O, I'll make a quick video of one way to start a basic human model in LW, just a base mesh that you might take into a scupting app.
It's easy when you see how.
Just a matter of beveling (or rather extending) discs.

Great, I'll look forward to that. :thumbsup:

jameswillmott
05-28-2007, 09:27 AM
O, I'll make a quick video of one way to start a basic human model in LW, just a base mesh that you might take into a scupting app.
It's easy when you see how.
Just a matter of beveling (or rather extending) discs.

Very generous, thanks, I'm looking forward to another video from you.

Twisted_Pixel
05-28-2007, 09:31 AM
Thanks for all the reference links.
Shall be keeping an eye on this topic for more gems of information.

Titus
05-28-2007, 09:53 AM
There's a blog made by Riven Phoenix with many videos showing how to draw the human figure, I think the url is this

http://the-structure-of-man.blogspot.com/

and he posted many videos on youtube like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL2GW-I4aI4

He has more than a 100 lessons.

oDDity
05-28-2007, 09:56 AM
Actually, there's not much point, there's already loads of head and body modeling tutorials out there. What's the point in another one. I was only going to do a basic blocking on of a base mesh anyway.

http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials%20/characters.htm#Human%20Characters%20-%20Bodies

I might some day do a full modeling tutorial for something like this model, but that would take hours of video.

2BitSculptor
05-28-2007, 10:43 AM
The Loomis book is an all time favorite. I've used it extensively in my clay sculpting.

Chuck
2Bit Studio (http://www.2BitStudio.com)

bluerider
05-28-2007, 12:09 PM
The Loomis book is an all time favorite. I've used it extensively in my clay sculpting.

Chuck
2Bit Studio (http://www.2BitStudio.com)

Good grief, you have one or two sculptures there.

I'm book marking your website. :jam:

2BitSculptor
05-28-2007, 02:43 PM
Good grief, you have one or two sculptures there.

I'm book marking your website. :jam:

Hey Graham.... Tesselator tried to hook us up a couple months ago on Skype, but every time he rang you up, you weren't around. I haven't been on since, though.

Chuck

Extent
05-28-2007, 07:59 PM
Loomis, Hogarth, already mentioned and excellent stuff.

For photoreference I have a copy of Anatomy for the Artist, it's really nice. Has skeletal overlays and master studies.

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Artist-Sarah-Simblet/dp/078948045X/

bluerider
05-28-2007, 10:46 PM
Hey Graham.... Tesselator tried to hook us up a couple months ago on Skype, but every time he rang you up, you weren't around. I haven't been on since, though.

Chuck

Ah.....I've been moving continents and all that?

:)

I've sent you a private message.

Digital Hermit
05-29-2007, 02:06 PM
Actually, there's not much point, there's already loads of head and body modeling tutorials out there. What's the point in another one. I was only going to do a basic blocking on of a base mesh anyway.
http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials%20/characters.htm#Human%20Characters%20-%20Bodies

I might some day do a full modeling tutorial for something like this model, but that would take hours of video.

The point is... we get to see the oDDity method and tweaks of how a head and body are done in LW... I know I would be interested! :D

Regards,

oDDity
05-29-2007, 05:58 PM
Believe me, my method has nothing to in it that isn't in other tutorials. It's just basic, boring extender plus action. No skill or artistry required.
All the good stuff happens after the base mesh is done.