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peteb
05-26-2007, 08:33 AM
I'm trying to render out some displacement on a Zbrush to Lightwave character.
But if I try and render a higher poly count even just a million, Lightwave tells me it's out of memory which as far as I can see isn't true as in the performance window it's telling me I still have agig free out of my two gig of ram. It seems to get to about 1.1 gig and then comes up with that error.

Anyone know why?


Pete B

hrgiger
05-26-2007, 08:36 AM
Lightwave's poor memory handling?

Sensei
05-26-2007, 09:27 AM
If your scene is renderable at resolution f.e. 40x30 pixels in ACT camera like Perspective Camera, VirtualRender http://virtualrender.trueart.eu will help you, and render framebuffer directly to hard disk..

peteb
05-27-2007, 10:23 AM
Hmmmm, Are Newtek lightly to sort out these memory problems anytime soon. I thought the whole point of the re-write of Lightwave's renderer was so that it resolved these problems.

That renderer looks good but I can't afford $200, I've just splashed out on Zbrush3.

Thanks for the replies


Pete B

Sensei
05-27-2007, 12:44 PM
I thought the whole point of the re-write of Lightwave's renderer was so that it resolved these problems.

Old known problems are gone, new one are introduced in fresh code.. That's normal is any software development.. And unavoidable..

Andyjaggy
05-27-2007, 01:33 PM
I want perfect software NOW dang it. :) It does suck though.

tektonik
05-27-2007, 01:37 PM
go for 64 bit lightwave on xp64

pure pleasure

no more memory consideration

excellents swap file performance if you bust your physical RAM

voriax
05-27-2007, 05:59 PM
Sensei, any chance of there being a demo version of VirtualRender? I'm dying to try it but it's hard to convince management unless they can "see" what it's doing.
Even a video demo would be cool - that's what got me fprime :D

Sensei
05-27-2007, 06:52 PM
VirtualRender is not like FPrime real-time preview. It's intended to render any imaginable resolution, lets say 100,000 x 100,000 would be good for it, if you have enough computers in renderfarm and available disk space. Because of amount of data it can't preview scenes and show "how fast it is".. Rendering is as fast as you have machines in renderfarm, and how fast network disk is.. Output render should looks EXACTLY like LightWave one. The only difference is resolution and/or how many machines were used to render it.

Here is Jure's scene rendered by LightWave v9.2 at 1600x900 resolution AA5 pass and equivalent Virtual Render at 16000x9000 AA5..
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_1.rar
It was highly compressed JPEG, because RAW file on disk had 420 MB.. As you can see they are the SAME.. :)

I am currently rendering 2nd Jure's scene..

2nd Layout instance with Virtual Render Options window opened:
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_1.png
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_1.png
It's pointing to the same Control Folder as machine(s) that's/re truely rendering, with the same settings. In this case it's same machine but another Layout.

VirtualRender Optimize Cameras was used on it to disallow LW renderer rendering and taking memory for framebuffer by setting resolution to 40x30 (this is the smallest resolution that's compatible aspect ratio with 16000x9000). After that Layout that's rendering is taking just 220 MB of phisical memory. It could not even initialize render at 16000x9000.

During rendering by other computer(s) you can run VirtualRender Composite with Ignore Error enabled. This will merge regions and write file on disk.
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_2.png
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_2.png

It takes a while to merge regions of such hi-res.. Especially if you're rendering parallel on the same machine.. When this laptop with disk 5400 RPM is idle, merging (reading 420 MB region buffers, and writing single file 420 MB) was taking approximately minute. With decent 7200 RPM SATA RAID-0 it should be much much faster.
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_3.png
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_3.png

After going to area not yet rendered, it's very quickly showing errors but Ignore Error is set, so it goes transparently..
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_4.png
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Progress_4.png

After loading 16000x9000 to Photoshop..
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Photoshop_1.png
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Photoshop_1.png

After zooming Photoshop to 100%..
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Photoshop_2.png
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/Jure_Scene_2_In_Photoshop_2.png

creativecontrol
05-27-2007, 07:17 PM
I'm trying to render out some displacement on a Zbrush to Lightwave character.
But if I try and render a higher poly count even just a million, Lightwave tells me it's out of memory which as far as I can see isn't true as in the performance window it's telling me I still have agig free out of my two gig of ram. It seems to get to about 1.1 gig and then comes up with that error.

Anyone know why?


Pete B

This exact problem has been around since 8.3 and up. I've reported it many times to no avail.

tribbles
05-28-2007, 08:57 AM
I also posted it - and also did some tests as to what subpatch levels did and how many poys could I get with 1, 2 and 3 identical objects.

nemac4
05-28-2007, 10:05 AM
Sensei, that sounds a bit like render buckets in "that other app". Do you have a 64bit version?

tektonik
05-28-2007, 11:23 AM
if it works with hypervoxels... does it work with HD instance ?

Sensei
05-28-2007, 12:09 PM
I dont have HD_Instance.. But if there is no bug in HD_Instance and it does not use tricks to speed up rendering by caching camera rays (with it, it would not work correctly with twisted ACT cameras and Surface Baking Cameras. Does it work with them?) it should works.. Hyper Voxels and TrueHair volumetrics works..

peteb
05-28-2007, 01:30 PM
I agree that new code introduces new bugs but considering part of the master plan for the renderer was to make it quicker and smarter I would have thought they'd be looking out for these problems way before release.

As for 64bit. I wish I could, if only I had a few thousand pounds for a new computer :(

Looks like I'll have to just render within Zbrush for now which isn't ideal to say the least. Either that or just use Normal maps...which I don't think are working too well in Z3 at the moment.


Pete B

Sensei
05-28-2007, 01:49 PM
if it works with hypervoxels...

Example HyperVoxels render, 16000 x 9000..
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/HV_Test_1.rar

Sensei
05-28-2007, 02:01 PM
As for 64bit. I wish I could, if only I had a few thousand pounds for a new computer :(

I just got Athlon X2 6000, Asus motherboard and 2 GB RAM 800 MHz for 500 usd.. The rest components every computer user have already.. Decent machine does not have to be have no idea how expensive.. In USA it should be even less for this setup, without 22% VAT and transport costs..

toby
05-28-2007, 03:02 PM
I agree that new code introduces new bugs but considering part of the master plan for the renderer was to make it quicker and smarter I would have thought they'd be looking out for these problems way before release.
There were lots of other priorities, like final gather and nodes - first they get the features in and make them work, then fix bugs. Look for 9.5 to be a strong production-ready release. They might just wait for everyone to make the 64 bit transition to solve the problem, but I hope not, that's kinda sloppy.

This HV render looks a little weird, shouldn't have those corners should it? Is the LW render the same?

Sensei
05-28-2007, 03:20 PM
Here is LW render at 1600x900
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Graphics/HV_Test_1.jpg
It can't allocate frame buffers at 16000x9000..

And here is scene
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender/Files/HV_Test.rar

Can you compare them?

voriax
05-28-2007, 05:39 PM
This HV render looks a little weird, shouldn't have those corners should it? Is the LW render the same?

I just tested the scene Sensei posted and the HV's come out the same, with the strange anomalies.

toby
05-28-2007, 06:25 PM
The LW render is certainly the same, it would be strange for your plugin to cause something like that anyway.

oobievision
05-29-2007, 05:02 PM
I just got Athlon X2 6000, Asus motherboard and 2 GB RAM 800 MHz for 500 usd.. The rest components every computer user have already.. Decent machine does not have to be have no idea how expensive.. In USA it should be even less for this setup, without 22% VAT and transport costs..

well for my EVGA with an AMD x2 2.1ghz with 2gig of ram and an ATI Radeon 1650 pro HIS which I purchased separately I paid about $1300 US with out monitors or major disk space though I did find 2 19 inch widescreen LCD's for $100 us each after the NAB this year. so I guess I spent close to $2500 with all the software I needed including lightwave v9 and Adobe Production Studio Professional. not a bad deal. check out http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/ they have really affordable pc's that they build from the ground up typically used for gaming. after u put your order in they spend a week or 2 fine tunning your machine to make sure your not gonna have a problem.

jasonwestmas
06-01-2007, 10:06 AM
Maybe I overlooked this but. . .So does Virtual Render decrease the amount of needed ram usage to perform 16bit tiff displacement operations?

jasonwestmas
06-01-2007, 10:30 AM
found some more information. . .since no ram will be used in the frame buffer storage then that will free up more ram for the displacement I assume.

Sensei
06-01-2007, 02:20 PM
Maybe I overlooked this but. . .So does Virtual Render decrease the amount of needed ram usage to perform 16bit tiff displacement operations?

VirtualRender decreases ram usage for everything, so also for displacement. The bigger resolution, the more memory is saved. It's InfiniMap but for rendering.

toby
06-01-2007, 05:27 PM
I get it, Infinimap lets you use gargantuan texture maps, VirtualRender lets you output gargantuan render sizes - sweet! I assume they will work together?