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Twisted Designs
05-23-2007, 01:22 PM
I know I haven't been posting here very long but I have encountered a problem that is, well, embarrassing! The Gallery here is FULL of awesome work by some very experienced LW users and I enjoy looking through it every time I come to the site. However, I am almost ashamed to post my "noob" creations in the same gallery as the awesome works on this site.

Why not have a gallery for beginners?

Earl
05-23-2007, 01:24 PM
It's really no big deal. If you consider it finished then post it in the finished gallery. There's no standard that it must hold up to (except the standard that you impose on it). If you still don't feel comfortable doing that then just use the WIP gallery.

JeffrySG
05-23-2007, 05:14 PM
If you're still improving you could also have one WIP thread for a bunch of your projects. If you're embarrassed by them, maybe there is room for improvement on them. And if that's the case, maybe they're really not finished?

In the end I'm sure most people will be supportive of your work especially if you let people know that you are a beginner - regardless what forum they're in.

Jeff

bluerider
05-23-2007, 05:49 PM
I know I haven't been posting here very long but I have encountered a problem that is, well, embarrassing! The Gallery here is FULL of awesome work by some very experienced LW users and I enjoy looking through it every time I come to the site. However, I am almost ashamed to post my "noob" creations in the same gallery as the awesome works on this site.

Why not have a gallery for beginners?

Go for it.

State your new to the experience and people will give valuable criticism.

There will always be some who get enjoyment from mocking, but remember it says more about them than your honest integrity to receive positive feedback. :)

kopperdrake
05-24-2007, 01:55 AM
Hehe - it's true that sometimes you can get remarks on your work even in the Finished Gallery, but I always remind myself that

a) sometimes they may be right
b) it's all good practice for the more churlish client

Welcome aboard (assuming you take the plunge and buy LW ofc, after reading your other threads) :thumbsup:

ghostlight
05-24-2007, 02:50 AM
Criticism is the best thing an artist can get.

colkai
05-24-2007, 03:16 AM
Criticism is the best thing an artist can get.
I disagree - a paycheck is the BEST thing. ;) :D

Twisted Designs
05-24-2007, 07:22 AM
Hehe - it's true that sometimes you can get remarks on your work even in the Finished Gallery, but I always remind myself that

a) sometimes they may be right
b) it's all good practice for the more churlish client

Welcome aboard (assuming you take the plunge and buy LW ofc, after reading your other threads) :thumbsup:


My "future" boss already owns Lightwave. I have his Laptop with version 9.0 on it. My other thread was simply me being curious as to whether I should actually take the plunge back into Lightwave. I learned it once in college...and seemed to have forgotten so much technique. It is QUICKLY coming back though

starbase1
05-24-2007, 09:23 AM
I know I haven't been posting here very long but I have encountered a problem that is, well, embarrassing! The Gallery here is FULL of awesome work by some very experienced LW users and I enjoy looking through it every time I come to the site. However, I am almost ashamed to post my "noob" creations in the same gallery as the awesome works on this site.

Why not have a gallery for beginners?

Hey Twisted - we all started as beginners at some point, and the vast majority here are extremely constructive. If you mention your experience level, I am sure we will take it into account.

And if you want reassuring, search these forums for the 'my first render' thread - that should give you a good feeling for just how bad some of the greats used to be!

:D :D :D

Steamthrower
05-24-2007, 09:28 AM
I wouldn't worry about posting any of your creations. Some people will probably knock you upside down because you killed the wrong polygon or had motion blur undithered or some stupid thing, but it's nothing to worry about.

Sometimes all you have to do is click on their signature link and look at their gallery, and find that they aren't so hot after all ;)

newsvixen8
05-27-2007, 03:01 PM
For those of us who aren't as seasoned as the gurus who post here, there is always the forum at Subdivision Modeling.

http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/

Bog
05-28-2007, 05:55 AM
I say post it all up. There are a lot of fellow-travellers on here, from complete newbies through to hardened professionals who've Seen the Elephant. By and large, you'll get reasonable crit from people who can see your skill level, and will be more interested in seeing your personal development than in smashing you flat.

By and large. The ones who're just out to panel you for their own self-aggrandisement are pretty easy to spot and add to your ignore list.

oDDity
05-28-2007, 06:47 AM
Yes, and you'll soon learn who the people are who offer you nothing but pointless empty praise in order to appear as a nice guy, and hold you back and make you think you're better than you are.
Add them to your ignore list as well.
You get all sorts on CG forums.

oDDity
05-28-2007, 06:58 AM
Actually, this is an excellent opportunity to ask a self confessed neophyte which he would prefer.

Twisted Designs - would you rather be told honestly how good or bad your work is by someone you can see is obviously an expert, so you know for a fact where you currently stand on the scale of current CG artistry, or would you rather have a bunch of sycophants patronising you, deliberately telling you your work is good and to 'keep it up' even though they know they are lying and it really isn't very good?

bluerider
05-28-2007, 09:26 AM
oDDity,
I would guess that he would want an honest accessment, but one thats constructive.

Its good to get critisium that a person can attempt to modify and have positive accessment of his mistakes. :)

starbase1
05-28-2007, 09:53 AM
Actually, this is an excellent opportunity to ask a self confessed neophyte which he would prefer.

Twisted Designs - would you rather be told honestly how good or bad your work is by someone you can see is obviously an expert, so you know for a fact where you currently stand on the scale of current CG artistry, or would you rather have a bunch of sycophants patronising you, deliberately telling you your work is good and to 'keep it up' even though they know they are lying and it really isn't very good?

You say that like they are the only options...

How about:
Helping the neophyte become the best he can, by constructively pointing out areas where he can improve, explaining how, and giving encouragement, recognising where he has done relatively well for his level of experience.

If someone is making very basic errors, then it should be particularly easy to help them get better.

An approach like "competitive dad" from the Fast Show helps no one.

Nick

newsvixen8
05-28-2007, 06:20 PM
It is precisely because of the pointless, non-specific criticism and character assassinations of certain posters (who shall remain on the ignore list) that I do not post here. I prefer to P-M those individuals whose suggestions I value, for pertinence and clarity.

loki74
05-29-2007, 07:46 PM
Twisted Designs - would you rather be told honestly how good or bad your work is by someone you can see is obviously an expert, so you know for a fact where you currently stand on the scale of current CG artistry, or would you rather be completely berated by someone who gets his jollies making you feel worthless?

Would you rather someone tell you that you suck, or have someone tell you what the problem with your art is, and how to improve it?

That's really the question oddity ought to be asking. There are as many legitimate critiques as there are sycophant "keep it up" -ers. But thankfully, the jerks who just rip you up and let you bleed are far and few between.

Welcome to the NT Forums! ^_^

THREEL
05-30-2007, 09:24 PM
I hope this doesn't sound like I'm hi-jacking this thread, and maybe I should have placed this post in the "Do you consider yourself an artist?" thread, but art as in bueaty is in the eye of the beholder. Rembrandt wasn't the only artist in the world. We, also, had people like Picasso, who definitely saw the world through a different set of eyes.

Judging by the millions of $$$ that these artists' works have fetched at auction, I would say that both of these men were considered "artists". It's just a shame that they were dead before they got a chance to milk that "cash cow". So, I say if one is judging modeling technique and work flow, that's cool. But, if they're judging art for the sake of art, it's all a matter of taste.

Now, if you're judging a model based on the fact that the artist has said that they are trying to make it as close to the "real thing" as possible, then that is a different story. But, then again, who says that the critique is seeing the "real thing" correctly.

Twisted Designs: Since I've joined this forum, I believe that I have improved as a modeler. And, I can truly say it's because of the help that I have obtained here. There are a lot of :lwicon:vers here that are ready, willing and able to give you a helping hand with your :lwicon: woes as they come across your path.

tHREEL, but you can call me AL.

vadermanchild
05-30-2007, 10:17 PM
I have decided not to post work here - I have seen one too many personal attacks.

If you do post you need to profusly appolagise for your work in the same post so as not to cause offense. That seems to be the rules here.

The galleries here are not a friendly place... they can turn nasty fast - I advise to look elsewhere.

Bog
05-31-2007, 11:00 AM
The galleries here are not a friendly place... they can turn nasty fast - I advise to look elsewhere.

To my mind, that's just not right. I'm not saying you're incorrect - sadly, you are. It's a crying shame that it's risky to post in the hope of developing one's skills. We should be free to admit that we don't know it all, that we are in a learning process.

Feeling so ashamed of one's own work that one's unwilling to post is just messed up. Being made to feel so having plucked up the courage to ask for advise in the first place is deeply unpleasant.

sammael
05-31-2007, 11:41 AM
I think its silly to hold back on posting your works here, you may get the odd negative reply to your work but in the end what does it matter. There are a lot of people here with varying levels of taste and skill, some will appreciate your work more than others some will possibly hate it. In the end its a great way to improve your work and nobody in my opinion should hold back.
You cant expect to always be heaped with praise but you will get valuable pointers on how to improve. Sometimes a negative or derogatory comment or two but for every one of those youll get a multitude of helpful and encouraging replies.
You just cant let some random person from half way accross the globe make you feel down and out about your work. Put on your thick skin and reap the rewards of what other peoples insight can offer, otherwise your just letting yourself down in the end. I for one would love to see more works posted here even though I might not tell you its great when I dont think it is but I would expect the same in return.

oDDity
05-31-2007, 12:30 PM
To my mind, that's just not right. I'm not saying you're incorrect - sadly, you are. It's a crying shame that it's risky to post in the hope of developing one's skills. We should be free to admit that we don't know it all, that we are in a learning process.

Feeling so ashamed of one's own work that one's unwilling to post is just messed up. Being made to feel so having plucked up the courage to ask for advise in the first place is deeply unpleasant.

This isn't a kindergarten finger painting session where everyone deserves a kiss and a hug no matter what their efforts.
We am all growed up now.
You were asking me to face up and accept reality in another thread, well maybe you should do so in this regard, the world's a rough place and no one what's crap work, either to buy, or see.

starbase1
05-31-2007, 04:37 PM
Well...

One thing I generally do is choose whose criticisms to take seriously - if someone is not constructive in their criticism, I ignore it. If I feel that someones work in a particular subject matter is inferior to my own, I treat their opinions with scepticism, though it is often useful in terms of understanding what the naive viewer expects. (I am particularly thinking of things like very thick bright atmosphere limb on the Earth, and over sized moon views).

Something else I notice is that boards where there is a common SUBJECT rather than common software, tend to be a LOT more constructive in my experience. I have never seen a comment that was not constructive on the International Astronomical Artists lists, and it's not far off that on Terranuts (united by landscapes and terrain), and to a slightly lesser extent the megapoly SF ship masters of LWG3D, (though that is one software).

If it will encourage beginners, lets have a "shallow end" area. But maybe we should consider areas by subject rather than skill level... If it can be done with a reasonable number...

Nick

Wickster
05-31-2007, 05:11 PM
We're not here to make fun at other people's work, we're here to support each other. Encouraging words and harsh critisms will come from both sides, but it's all to make you better. Probably most of us here don't take the harsh part to heart, but do take the lessons and suggestions seriously.

Speaking of which, I myself has been on this forum for many years and have nothing to show for it. Hmmm, maybe I should ask permission to show off some of my models, since I don't own the designs for them. :)

vadermanchild
05-31-2007, 05:25 PM
To suggest people who dont show work here are like immature children is part of the problem many have with this forum; I choose to post elsewhere cause theres plenty of galleries where you can get equal and better crits but without the bad atmosphere.

I know plenty LW users besides myself who just dont bother posting work here and its not down to being scared its about wanting a polite discussion.

bobakabob
05-31-2007, 06:20 PM
An approach like "competitive dad" from the Fast Show helps no one.

Nick

I wish I had said that, Whistler.

Hmmm, it would be a shame if you didn't post. It's a learning experience for everyone. Any eedjits who make personal comments are more to be pitied and easily switched off. Most people here give very useful constructive advice.

musick
05-31-2007, 08:52 PM
Well as a noob, i have no problem with posting my work. I want to get better so better i temper my work with opinions of people that use the program, and can offer advice than those that like pretty pictures etc.
Imo if someone is gonna be harsh, atleast be constructive.
I also dont think saying something like "good work""very nice" etc is a blatant attempt to suck up either. Some people cant be bothered writing a thesis on what they like about the model, but still want to say that they like the model/comp etc.

oDDity
06-01-2007, 01:53 AM
I always get the feeling that you're pointing the finger at me when you talk about 'eedjits who make personal comments', but considering I post in less than 1% of wip and finished gallery threads, that's hardly accurate. I only post when I see something particularly annoying (usually due to someone's work being praised when it obviously isn't any good) or in a character modeling thread that isn't so bad that it's worth adding some expert advice, or something I think is particularly good and it's worth saying so.

bobakabob
06-01-2007, 02:43 AM
I always get the feeling that you're pointing the finger at me when you talk about 'eedjits who make personal comments', but considering I post in less than 1% of wip and finished gallery threads, that's hardly accurate. I only post when I see something particularly annoying (usually due to someone's work being praised when it obviously isn't any good) or in a character modeling thread that isn't so bad that it's worth adding some expert advice, or something I think is particularly good and it's worth saying so.

Why pray tell would you get that impression, Mr Odd? Your crits are often illuminating. Heaven forbid you should break forum rules.