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View Full Version : MP3 problem repeating end of song in Vt4.6



edmellnik
05-20-2007, 04:09 PM
I wondered if anyone else has had a problem working
with mp3 files on the timeline.

I am finding that the end of a song will keep repeating the last 30 seconds or so. the wave form also shows the repeated area. Then when you adjust it on the time line
and play from a little before the end it acts like it is too short but then play from the beginning and the corrected file on the time line plays ok. Very weird.
Seems to be an mp3 issue.

SBowie
05-20-2007, 05:11 PM
I could be mistaken, but I think MP3s are 'discouraged' ...

ScorpioProd
05-20-2007, 09:57 PM
Convert to WAV before using in VT-EDIT.

creach
05-22-2007, 12:52 PM
Hmph. I'm glad you posted. I also import MP3s and have the same problem.

But now I know why.

Tanks! :D

D3Cast
05-22-2007, 06:58 PM
I've had this problem, too, but only with VBR MP3s... seems like possibly a "end-time calculation" software issue.

-s

tfrank
05-23-2007, 08:47 AM
NewTek web site says the following audio formats are supported in VT4:
.wav
.mp3
.au
.snd
.m3u
.aif
.aifc
.aiff
.wax
.dif

That said, I too have had issues with .mp3 files since VT2 days.

tfrank
05-23-2007, 09:01 AM
To further add to the confusion, I'll have someone email me up to 16 .mp3 files to produce commercials. If I have a problem, it's always the first file. Not the 4th or the 7th of the 16th. It's always the first. I can play the file anywhere else before I load it on the VT4. It seems that once it gets put into a folder on the VT4, it somehow gets corrupted so that it won't play back properly. If I then move that "corrupted" file off of the VT4, it won't play on anything else now. It has been precisely edited down to between 3 and 4 frames. Very interesting.

ScorpioProd
05-23-2007, 10:30 AM
NewTek web site says the following audio formats are supported in VT4:
.wav
.mp3
.au
.snd
.m3u
.aif
.aifc
.aiff
.wax
.dif

Never believe everything you read. :hey:

Paul Lara
05-24-2007, 10:58 AM
Well, in defense of NewTek's file compatibility listing, VT[4] will play MP3 files; just not ALL mp3 files since there are numerous compression techniques employed.

creach
05-24-2007, 12:52 PM
Okay, so now that I'm paying attention...

I have noticed this same behavior with *.wmas. But I can also see they're not on the list.

Dan

<lurk=on>

edmellnik
05-24-2007, 02:50 PM
Yes and its about time they get it together. MP3 is a very popular format and there is no excuss for this.

Come on Newtek.
Give us MP3 capable and while your at it how about
some high end HD capability.
Ed

SBowie
05-24-2007, 03:36 PM
Give us MP3 capable and while your at it how about
some high end HD capability.EdI'm a little puzzled - MP3, highly compressed and somewhat lower quality audio than CD, right? And easily converted to WAVE, which doesn't require as much system resources on the fly to play? So we're worried about having it why?

tfrank
05-24-2007, 03:49 PM
I'm a little puzzled - MP3, highly compressed and somewhat lower quality audio than CD, right? And easily converted to WAVE, which doesn't require as much system resources on the fly to play? So we're worried about having it why?
The following are just a few reasons why MP3 support is important: #1) Well, it's a format that is supposed to be supported according to NewTek. (Although Paul Laura's post is the first time I've heard that there should be a disclaimer attached.) #2) It's a format that is easily emailed accross the country with not much problem due to it's file size. #3) In my business, it's the standard in file exchanges between local & national radio/TV/outside talent. I didn't pick those rules, but my life is MUCH easier if I abide by them.

SBowie
05-24-2007, 04:02 PM
I didn't pick those rules, but my life is MUCH easier if I abide by them.Even if the resources required to decode them on the fly causes a significant performance hit? If that is indeed a factor, I find it next to no trouble to convert them, but maybe that's just me.

edmellnik
05-24-2007, 04:04 PM
For the Toaster to convert the file to wav it must be on the time line right? once its on the time line the error is aready there and I would assume the render to wav would probably include the errors.

creach
05-24-2007, 04:14 PM
...and I would assume the render to wav would probably include the errors.

You got it right.

MP3 is a lossy compression scheme, and so, ya can't get back what wasn't there from being squeezed into MP3. Therefore to re-code a low bitrate MP3 to a wave offers no benefit other than perhaps not upsetting VT[4], and giving you something to do for a few extra seconds.

Dan

tfrank
05-24-2007, 04:27 PM
Even if the resources required to decode them on the fly causes a significant performance hit? If that is indeed a factor, I find it next to no trouble to convert them, but maybe that's just me. I don't (in principle) disagree with you Steve, but my bottom line is time resources (in at times, a chaotic operation trying to make deadlines) and screwing around trying to convert something that according to NewTek (until Paul's post)-I shouldn't have to. The issue of .mp3 files failing to play at times is not a "make or break issue" for me. It's just when it happens, it happens at the worst time. But then, I forgot that some computers/software are "aware" and will play with you because they can. It's just like being married, sometimes you are reminded where you really are in the food chain.

Scott Bates
05-24-2007, 05:48 PM
For the Toaster to convert the file to wav it must be on the time line right?No, open the file bin, right-click on the file and select Render.

Although I've never had to use mp3's, like Steve, I don't have a problem rendering audio files to a format I know is usable when necessary, but I'm not getting into the rest of this debate. :)

ScorpioProd
05-24-2007, 10:45 PM
You would convert from a MP3 to a WAV directly from the file, not by putting it in the timeline. I've never seen any errors from doing that.

Though one thing confuses me... MP3 is simply MPEG-1 Layer 3. That is the ONLY compression codec that can be called MP3. Sure, it can have different compression data rates you can choose from, and different sampling rates, but beyond that... I'm not sure what Paul's talking about that there are "numerous compression techniques applied"... I mean, I only count one. A MP3 is an MP3.

It is true that the specification is loose on the encoder, allowing competition for the best encoder for different data rates and such, BUT; the decoder specification is tight, and should work for all encoders. This same type of situation is true for most MPEG formats.

SBowie
05-25-2007, 06:13 AM
For the Toaster to convert the file to wav it must be on the time line right? once its on the time line the error is aready there and I would assume the render to wav would probably include the errors.I wasn't suggesting using the VT to do the conversion - there are numerous freebie apps on the net that can convert CD<->MP3<->WAV files Ed.

SBowie
05-25-2007, 06:27 AM
But then, I forgot that some computers/software are "aware" and will play with you because they can.Ya know ....I'm not arguing against improving support - just puzzling through the facts as I see them. And I'm inclined to think that there are two things that make MP3 support 'awkward':

First, that which is compressed must be uncompressed. Decompressing something that is more heavily compressed is going to place a heavier load on system resources. Maybe it's inconsequential, I really don't know - but MP#s are a lot smaller than WAVEs, and given VT's propensity for doing things in realtime it may be a factor - purest guesswork here.

Second, Paul has mentioned that there are a lot of MP3 variants. This calls to mind the situation with TIFFs - in fact, this one of the reasons TIFF is a four letter word to me. There's a generation of college profs wandering around out there blindly telling everyone they meet that "TIFFs are best", which of course is nonsense. (They say this because that is one someone equally ill-informed told them that when they pecked their way out of the egg. This, btw, is the same crowd that says "video is 72 dpi", fighting words around here.)

The fact is that good file formats abound - and the real failing of TIFFs is that there are a gazillion variants, effectively meaning (to paraphrase one online reference) that no application can justifiably claim to fully support the format.

So if MP3s are similarly 'variable' - as seems the case from what Paul said - flawless support may not even be achievable.

creach
05-25-2007, 07:48 AM
<lurk=off>


...that no application can justifiably claim to fully support the format.

Adobe™ owns 'tif' (or 'tiff') and you can bet *they* support 'em.

Dan :D

<lurk=on>

PIZAZZ
05-25-2007, 08:21 AM
While there is a pretty tight spec for MP3 audio files, when you throw VBR and CBR into the mix things do get wacky. Back in the 90s, MP3 DJ Software had a bear of time getting VBR support correct. Still to this dayin the DJ world the general practice is CBR because of the bad taste VBR left with so many people in the past.

Ed, Do you know what kind of MP3s you are getting issues with?

I use CBR mp3s many times in our projects but I most of the time convert them to wav files even though VT can usually handle it. It takes seconds in CoolEdit or another of the many audio programs I have loaded.


I am not discounting that better MP3 playback is needed. It would be nice.
Sometimes we have to do what we have to do to just keep VT happy.

SBowie
05-25-2007, 08:35 AM
Adobe™ owns 'tif' (or 'tiff') and you can bet *they* support 'em.Sorry Dan, cannot agree in any respect. From the Adobe TIFF page (bold font my own):

TIFF - Tagged Image File Format is one of the most popular and flexible of the current public domain raster file formats.
And they definitely don't support ALL of them (I have even heard stories of TIFFs from one Adobe app failing to load correctly into another Adobe app.)

From Wiki (which I personally think is taking a very generous view of the matter):

Although it is a widely accepted standard format today, when TIFF was first introduced, its extensibility led to compatibility problems. Programmers were free to specify new tags and options, but not all programs implemented support for all the tags that had been created. As a result the lowest common denominator soon became "the" TIFF, and even today the vast majority of TIFF files, and the code that reads them, are based on a simple 32-bit uncompressed image.

(snip)

Byte order can cause compatibility issues between Apple Macintosh and Windows programs, which typically use different byte order for TIFF files. Some programs offer the option of saving in Mac or Windows byte order so files can be used across platforms.

tfrank
05-25-2007, 08:48 AM
Ok folks, how does one figure out what "flavor" of .mp3 file he is dealing with? Right clicking on the file from the file bin to get into properties doesn't seem to yield the proper info. Or I guess more correctly, what .mp3 flavor DOES NewTek support?

SBowie
05-25-2007, 08:58 AM
I've no rock-solid idea, but my first thought is to use GSpot, see what it tells you.

tfrank
05-25-2007, 09:20 AM
46613Steve, you are a wealth of information. I had no idea such an application existed!

creach
05-25-2007, 11:17 AM
Geez, I hate getting old.

Steve, you are right. I could swear I had read in the Photoshop 5.5 Bible (by Deke McClelland - GREAT book) that tiff was as I mentioned.

Well, I had it wrong on two fronts: 1) It was developed by Aldus (not Adobe - they both start with an 'a' and are five letters long - sheesh) and 2) it's now public domain.

Dan

SBowie
05-25-2007, 12:21 PM
Geez, I hate getting old.I'm kind of enjoying it, actually - oh, the aches and pains in the AM are a nuisance, but even so I think they basically contribute to the curmudgeon-ifying process I'm working on. :)

creach
05-29-2007, 12:21 PM
I'm kind of enjoying it, actually...

Yeah!

Have you noticed how folks give you a wider berth now if you're a little more cantankerous than normal? Gotta love it! :D

Dan