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SP00
05-16-2007, 12:32 PM
Hi Guys,

Was wondering how I could rig a robot without it deforming the mesh like a human rig. I tried using weight maps but it seem to still affect the neighboring points. I like to make it work with IKboost tool. Thanks.

SplineGod
05-16-2007, 01:30 PM
You can use weight maps as long as you you select the 'use weight maps only' option in the bones panel.
You can also just deal with the robot as separate pieces, parented in a heirarchy instead of using bones.

SP00
05-16-2007, 01:37 PM
Ahh, that sound great. Would I still be able to use IKboost without bones? Thanks Larry.

SplineGod
05-16-2007, 04:56 PM
IKBoost works on any items not just bones. :)

Dodgy
05-16-2007, 05:58 PM
You can also spread your robot parts apart and this will limit the influence of bones on each other.

SplineGod
05-16-2007, 09:53 PM
If you explode the parts in a single layer as Dodgy suggested you can turn on limited range on the bones and pull them back together. :)

SP00
05-16-2007, 11:04 PM
Thanks, I got it working, but these are nice additional tips. Thanks again :thumbsup:

Surrealist.
05-17-2007, 12:52 AM
Hi Guys,

Was wondering how I could rig a robot without it deforming the mesh like a human rig. I tried using weight maps but it seem to still affect the neighboring points. I like to make it work with IKboost tool. Thanks.

That's odd. Weightmaps is a sure way to get something like that working. Each part has a map 100%. Pretty simple. It should have worked.

I am curious how you wound up doing it.

Dodgy
05-17-2007, 03:10 AM
Weightmaps can lead to a lot of additional data and are slower to calculate than not using them. I tried them on my optimus prime object and found it really slowed things down, whereas just separating the bones and pieces and doing that way was a lot quicker.

Surrealist.
05-17-2007, 03:29 AM
Interesting. I mean, before weightmaps that was way. Didn't realize they could slow down a larger object that much.

Dodgy
05-17-2007, 05:23 AM
Well you have to think of it like this, for every point you have another vector value, which could increase the size of your object quite significantly. Not sure about why the speed is so different, but it is.

colkai
05-17-2007, 05:41 AM
If you explode the parts in a single layer as Dodgy suggested you can turn on limited range on the bones and pull them back together. :)
In doing this sort of thing, I've always wondered, wouldn't it be a pain to line up each bone/part correctly then?

Or am I misisng something? I'm guessing you 'blow apart' the model in modeller, stick a bone / skelegon for each part. Then in LW, ensure limited range is one then place the bones manually to their relevant 'parent' positions.

Dodgy
05-17-2007, 06:04 AM
And the man wins a prize :)

Because they're laid out in modeler, you can make sure the distance between objects are whole units, thus giving you precision in reconstructing them in layout.

colkai
05-17-2007, 07:31 AM
Ahh, you see, the obvious, that's what I always overlook! :p I was expecting some high-faluting solution hehe... silly old fool that I am. ;)

SP00
05-17-2007, 10:10 PM
That's odd. Weightmaps is a sure way to get something like that working. Each part has a map 100%. Pretty simple. It should have worked.

I am curious how you wound up doing it.


I actually made a newbie mistake and miss assigning a smaller bone to one of the weight maps. That cause me the headache. :o

SplineGod
05-17-2007, 11:06 PM
In doing this sort of thing, I've always wondered, wouldn't it be a pain to line up each bone/part correctly then?

Or am I misisng something? I'm guessing you 'blow apart' the model in modeller, stick a bone / skelegon for each part. Then in LW, ensure limited range is one then place the bones manually to their relevant 'parent' positions.


This is precisely how the warrior bugs in RoughNecks were setup at Foundation. :)

colkai
05-18-2007, 02:33 AM
Cool! - must give this a go. Didn't realise that weight maps actually slowed things down. I knew they increased file size, that was a given as it's extra vertex data, but the slowdown is new to me. :)

Elmar Moelzer
05-18-2007, 07:43 PM
Hmm, I usually just put the individual parts into individual layers and parent each part to the matching bone.
As long as the skeleton and the parts are all in different layers, you wont get any deformations.
No need to fiddle with weightmaps that way.
But maybe I am missing something?
CU
Elmar

SplineGod
05-19-2007, 04:23 AM
One reason it was done that was because there were LOTS of warrior bugs and having to deal with lots of parts on lots of bugs was a huge hassle.
Remember your trip to Warner Bros ? That was one of the problems we talked about....dealing with long lists. :)

colkai
05-21-2007, 02:48 AM
Hmm, I usually just put the individual parts into individual layers and parent each part to the matching bone.
As long as the skeleton and the parts are all in different layers, you wont get any deformations.

Funnily enough, the 3DWorld tutorial this month does that, I'd never thought of that before. Mainly I think because I presumed you'd also have to set 'use bones from layer' for each item. Of course, being a silly old fool, I'd never checked if that could be done en masse in the scene editor. :p

ghostlight
05-22-2007, 04:22 PM
If we're scared of blowing up our robots, does it help speed things up to only apply weight maps to the relevant points and not the enire model? I remember reading about that. I assume everyone does that anyway and things are still slow? I'd love to do a robot, and this blowup method doesn't sound half bad. Thanks!

Elmar Moelzer
05-25-2007, 02:22 PM
Hey Larry, of course I remember :)
Every detail.
You can still mass- parent stuff in the scene editor, if you have to though.
Of course it can under some circumstances still be faster to just "blow things" up, the way you said it.
But I am a to lazy thinker for complicated workflows ;)
CU
Elmar

RTSchramm
05-25-2007, 03:01 PM
Maybe I', missing something here, but if it is mechanical motion, then each part can be in its own layer with its own pivot point. You wouldn't even needs bones to do this except if your looking to do IK or FK, than maybe using pivot points wouldn't work.

Am I correct about this? Does IK and FK need bones to work?

Rich

Carm3D
05-28-2007, 04:10 AM
Am I correct about this? Does IK and FK need bones to work?

Nope.. You can do IK & FK with objects, object layers.. Or Nulls.

Dodgy
05-28-2007, 04:40 AM
We just do it this way as it means you don't have hundreds of objects in your scene, just a few objects with their own bones.

Carm3D
05-28-2007, 04:50 AM
I'd do it without bones. It's much faster when animating.

SplineGod
05-28-2007, 02:29 PM
You can also do it as a combination of objects and bones. Each major part of the robot can have its own bones. You can parent objects to bones etc. The main reason for doing this is to make it easier to select things.