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View Full Version : LW 9.x and beyond



d1wojo
05-14-2007, 09:56 PM
We have 9.2 now. I was woundering if the ground is rumbling with an word on when the new beta cycle will start with the character stuff. I'm hoping the next incarnation of LW 9.x has this in her.

Sarford
05-15-2007, 06:12 AM
hmmm, I gues you are a tiny bit premature. We won't hear anything the next couple of months after that, who knows?

hrgiger
05-15-2007, 06:48 AM
I'm guessing it might be sooner then that. After all, we do have Siggraph coming up in 3 months.

Andyjaggy
05-15-2007, 08:18 AM
Silence is good. That means the development crew are chained to their desks slaving away.

Nicolas Jordan
05-15-2007, 08:28 AM
I would guess that we will here something about the next version either before or at Siggraph. I can't wait to beta test new rigging tools etc.

d1wojo
05-15-2007, 10:43 PM
I was thinking Siggragh to....:agree:

colkai
05-16-2007, 03:13 AM
I think people should brace themselves for the possibility that the next update might not have the promised animation tools in it. An alternative could be that it focuses mainly on modeler and further rendering enhancements
A fair statement and one I'm very much inclined to agree with.


I don't think the community should get worked up with expectations that will lead to dissapointment, when nothing has been officially said about the next point release, yet.

Truthsay. :thumbsup:

hrgiger
05-16-2007, 05:02 AM
I'm not even thinking about an animation upgrade yet and I agree with you Neverko that we probably won't see a significant upgrade in the CA department in the next update. However, I do think we'll see some groundwork being laid for it. Perhpas by improving mesh handling in Layout or even deformation optimization, I think we will see something.
I am hoping for some serious attention on modeler including, but not lmitied to, improving CC performance, mesh translation speed, UV editing, and (this one's a wish) some better rounding capabilities.

pooby
05-16-2007, 05:43 AM
Re-inventing the animation system in LW is a HUGE HUGE undertaking and it has to be closely integrated with the future modelling abitities in layout to be worthwhile.
One of the best things that could happen to Character is being able to select poly's and points in layout and be able to make morphs etc but even this would be a massive amount of work and I doubt we will see this before the end of the year.
There may be some work done on the current system to tide users over but a fully working modern system would likely to take years to develop rather than months so I wouldn't expect too much too early.
Take Modo for example. How long has that been in development, and we don't see any animation tools yet, and that has been working with a clean slate, which I think is much easier.
Best to not get your hopes up I think, then you can't be disappointed. I did the opposite for years and it just makes you very frustrated.

wavk
05-16-2007, 06:17 AM
id say ditch the animation tools, lw was never good at animation so dont start now. focus on the things it can do nicely and make it better.

ie. modeling (instances, interactivity etc), rendering (make it faster better bigger...)

im in archviz so i dont even need the anim tools and if i would take up animation id pick another app.

mlon

colkai
05-16-2007, 06:21 AM
Whilst that's fine for yourself, it's of no help to those of us who are using LW's animation system as it stands. It's a narrow viewpoint to say drop animation because you personally don't use it. Especially given pretty much everyone else is clamouring for a revised one!

Nicolas Jordan
05-16-2007, 08:36 AM
I think people should brace themselves for the possibility that the next update might not have the promised animation tools in it. An alternative could be that it focuses mainly on modeler and further rendering enhancements, with maybe some tightening of Layout features. Not that I know anything of what the next update brings...

It's just important not to assume that the next point release will be all about animation, when in fact it could be coming later. There might be a 9.3 before 9.5 with animation, or we might jump straight to 9.5, or 9.6 just for fun... who knows?

I don't think the community should get worked up with expectations that will lead to dissapointment, when nothing has been officially said about the next point release, yet.

Yes, this is good to keep in mind. I am only hoping but I know the reality is likely that we won't see new rigging and animation system for some time. I am enjoying Messiah very much right now anyways. :D

joao
05-16-2007, 08:55 AM
ie. modeling (instances, interactivity etc), rendering (make it faster better bigger...)
mlon
instancing, instancing, instancing....... in many different shapes and forms.... in both layout and modeler.
Seriously..... the thought of having to reposition in the right place 100s of identical objects just because you updated one scares anyone out of lightwave.
And more importantly... it scares lightwave users from updating, detailing, and changing their objects - resulting in poor quality. Arch scenes or any environmental, city scenes, etc... RELY on similar or identical objects repeating themselves in a scene. Considering layout is excellent at handling large poly scenes (and with the new advance camera tools - is trying to position itself as a real world 'simulator') it is a pity that it has no instancing abilities....
And along with instancing - the ability to organize objects according to groups/symbols rather than just polys or layers. And along with that a history panel!!!!
Instancing would be a good start though....

j.

and about the animation tools..... it is suprising that although lightwave has always been 2 seperate programs longer than anyone else (modeler and layout) it always sells them together. Whilst C4D sells according to modules (even though it is only one program!!). If you could render stills in modeler (ala modo) - you could sell the programs seperately. a lot of people would prefer this - though maybe not newtek......

jasonwestmas
05-16-2007, 09:31 AM
I think people should brace themselves for the possibility that the next update might not have the promised animation tools in it. An alternative could be that it focuses mainly on modeler and further rendering enhancements, with maybe some tightening of Layout features. Not that I know anything of what the next update brings...

It's just important not to assume that the next point release will be all about animation, when in fact it could be coming later. There might be a 9.3 before 9.5 with animation, or we might jump straight to 9.5, or 9.6 just for fun... who knows?

I don't think the community should get worked up with expectations that will lead to dissapointment, when nothing has been officially said about the next point release, yet.

I was thinking this same thing. All I wanted for early 9.x was one or two SSS nodes that I could actually use easily and instead we got 4 plus 2 other 3rd party SSS emulators that I know of. Then the material nodes and a lot of new features/ speedups for GI plus all the bug squashing. My point is that modeling and animation hardly got touched when compared to the Rendering. So I'm forecasting that NT will focus solely on modeler for 9.5 and we'll see decent animation/bone setup tools for late 9.x or LW 10.0. Sounds like a year and a half of work at least.

jasonwestmas
05-16-2007, 09:37 AM
Also, I forgot to mention that there is that possibility that NT will be working on a new UI interface somewhere between 9.5 and 10. (Or mabey they will save that for 10.0) for that new look. It just makes a better presentation and it's too tempting to pass up for marketing purposes. Personally I just want ease of use and speed with the stripped down industrial look it has now.

Sarford
05-16-2007, 10:14 AM
hmmm... I wouldn't know what enhancements modeler could still get, appart from tool consolidation. Speed maybe...

Instancing in Layout would be great. I love the approach Kray has to that topic. Just place a null with the same name as your object and voila!

Personaly,I wouldn't mind if we didn't get an CA update untill 10.0, I don't mind paying for that CA update. Seems to me NewTek is putting a hell of a lot of work, time and resources in the free updates. So I'd rather pay and keep NewTek healthy then see them go bust trying to get a foothold back in the business. Not to say I'm very gratefull for the free updates and ofcourse would welcome a free CA update :D

hrgiger
05-16-2007, 10:56 AM
hmmm... I wouldn't know what enhancements modeler could still get, appart from tool consolidation. Speed maybe...



A few dozen spring to mind right away....

Start with fixing CC's.

UV tools could use some work. An interactive unwrap with on the fly adjustable perameters would be nice.

Mesh handling and translations could be tons better. Rotating an object smoothly is nice but modifying those objects quickly would be even nicer.

Yes, tool consolidation.

Yes, speed. You could probably count that under mesh translation.

Non-linear morphs.

True symmetry.

Real rounding tools. Rounder and edge bevel are finnicky and only work well under optimal conditions.

The ability to build polygons by conforming to another mesh surface.

Complete the edge integration.

Interactive modeling tools.

You know, the basics.

wavk
05-16-2007, 11:03 AM
i would warmly welcome solid animation tools i can see how they would benefit lw greatly.
that said my personal focus is on archviz so id like to see more enhancements there specially in modeller and in connection with layoot. :)

the new radiosity is a step forward and pretty nice, its useable!


mlon

Gaze
05-16-2007, 11:10 AM
Not a programmer, but...seems like a small wish list item for a point release:

Adjustable coordinate system would be very handy, at least for archviz. Anyone else wanting that?

jasonwestmas
05-16-2007, 11:36 AM
A few dozen spring to mind right away....

Start with fixing CC's.

UV tools could use some work. An interactive unwrap with on the fly adjustable perameters would be nice.

Mesh handling and translations could be tons better. Rotating an object smoothly is nice but modifying those objects quickly would be even nicer.

Yes, tool consolidation.

Yes, speed. You could probably count that under mesh translation.

Non-linear morphs.

True symmetry.

Real rounding tools. Rounder and edge bevel are finnicky and only work well under optimal conditions.

The ability to build polygons by conforming to another mesh surface.

Complete the edge integration.

Interactive modeling tools.

You know, the basics.


That's pretty close to my list too, thanks for doing the work for me ;) There are too many limitations for the tools therefore we are forced to use way TOO MANY together to get the desired results. Fewer tools that work like they could or should, that's what NT should strive for.

jasonwestmas
05-16-2007, 11:45 AM
Actually, I would prefer that Newtek just jump to animation and fix Catmull. I have three other programs that I can model characters much better in than modeler anyway. I would prefer character animation and rendering in lightwave over modeling in it. It's much easier to bring in an object that's already been modeled into lightwave than it is to bring in an animation. But hey, that's just me. :)

pooby
05-16-2007, 12:04 PM
It's Extremely easy to bring animation in too..

Earl
05-16-2007, 12:59 PM
A few dozen spring to mind right away....You know, the basics.
Add to that snapping please. Otherwise that list pretty much sums it up.

I would also like to have an optional construction history and some modeling instancing.

Oh and some better import/export filters for things such as GIS file types and CAD file types.

HanJobSoSlow
05-16-2007, 03:27 PM
Good list - modeller is old and dusty

riderx
05-17-2007, 10:12 PM
i hope future LW version ave much2 easier morphing tool (to create those character face mimics) interface..i totaly dislike the morph tool in the modeler rite now cause it is not user friendly (for me) and quite techinical think style.. but i do love those tool command that shows its names rather than icons (like in 3dmax or adobe softwares) cause it speed up work!

one more thing..i hope they put up tonnes of surface presets for the node edittor and APS stuff..

anyway im a 4month LW user..lol :D

jasonwestmas
05-17-2007, 10:47 PM
Morphing tool? You mean endomorphs? That part is simple enough with the morph mixer.