View Full Version : Serious Skelegon/Bones problem

05-12-2007, 06:11 AM
Hey guys, i'm runnning into some serius problem with the bones of my character, I converted the skelegons into bones in layout and each bone has its own weight map, everything works fine and all (all the bones is controlling it's all part), but when i recorded the Pivot location, the bones is acting wierd, like my right leg doesn't move or does anything when i rotate the right bone but it worked before i recorded the Pivot location, The strangest thing is now my left leg bone is now controlling both the right leg's movement and also the left legs', what's is happening?

I checked the weight map and everything is in order, anyway
i exited layout without saving, i converted the skelegons into bones again and yet the right leg doesn't move when i rotated the right leg's bone,!! but it worked before! does anyone know how to fix this? or is this a bug? I even reseted my comp but it still doesn't work!

05-12-2007, 07:03 AM
Theres a whole host of issues related to translation of various things popping up.

Its probably related to this - enough people are speaking out and it really does make the package quite problematic to use so hopefully Newtek have this as a priority.

05-12-2007, 08:01 AM
thanks for the reply, i rechcked my weioghtmap and i found out what the problem was, 'wrong naming and spelling errors',

ANyway, but now i got a new problem, all the bones of my charcter are now dis-joint, like when i move one bone, the other bones before and after it won't follow/connect/attach, An exmaple, Bone A-B-C- , when i move bone B-, Bone A- and C- just stay still and won't follow bone B-, like it's not connecting together, i checked in Modeller and there's only 1 point between all Bones and all the points are merged, but some how it won't connect in layout, does anyone know how to fix this? thanks!

05-12-2007, 08:08 AM
To make it clearer for you guys, the Tip of the bone won't connect/atatch to the bone after/before it,!

05-12-2007, 08:15 AM
Now, things has gotten worse, i clicked on the few buttons in layout (Rotate bone, Sue Bone, Join Bone, etc), now None of the bones can deform/move my character, like i can move them to anywhere and the parts of my character just won't follow, this is so annoying!! is this a bug???

05-12-2007, 08:23 AM
My main concern now is to get the Bones to connect to each other, i checked in modeller, all the joins of the bones are connected together, but for some strange reason i can move the bone freely and the tips of the bone isn't connect to the one next to it,! so does anyone know a way to fix this?

05-12-2007, 08:40 AM
Okay, first, before you convert your skelegons to bones, make sure they're merged (in modeler) so that one skelegon's tip is connected to the next's base. This will ensure that the next skelegon is parented to the previous.

In layout:
If one bone A isn't being moved by rotating bone B, then A isn't a child of B. You have to select A and open the Motion options and then select B in the drop down which says Parent.

If you do this, or reset the pivot of a bone, you'll need to REST the bone afterwards. Resting basically tells the bone which points to influence (if you're not ung weightmaps), and where the 'start' position is, for that influence. So for example if your leg mesh is pointing down, you'll want to rest the leg bone pointing down too. To rest the bone, select it (or multiple bones, you can do them at the same time) when it's in the right position, and press 'r'. This is the biggest problem most people seem to have, and results in a lot of meshes getting tangled when the bones are active. It's always a good idea to have a frame when your bones are in the rest position, ie matching the shape of your mesh, so you can go back and rest them all if necessary.

05-12-2007, 08:50 AM
I created a test to see if it's my object that is acting wierd, i created a rectangle in modeller, than opened it in layout, than i draw 4 bones each parented with another ( i clicked and draged out 4 child bones) but when i move one of the bone, its tip isn't connecting to the one next to it, to show you guys what i mean, i even took a snap shot to show it ( http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bonesud6.jpg ),

05-12-2007, 08:52 AM
is there a function in layout that lets u to connect the tips of the bones together? The bones was working fine this morning (tips connecting together), but now the whole thig is messed up, i open new object and yet it is still reacting the same way (disjointed bones)

05-12-2007, 09:02 AM
Dodgy, i followed your intrucstion and rested the bones (pressed r) but when i moved on of the bone the whole thing got messed up! like the bones is dancing all over the place!

05-12-2007, 09:06 AM
All of the skelegon's tips is connected to the next one! but for some reason it's not connected in layout, i checked the Scene editor and it says all the parts are parented! did i accidentally select some of the setting that disable the joint connection? if so, how do i fix it or reset to the default settings in layout?

05-12-2007, 12:01 PM
I tend to avoid rigging with skelegons. Its just as easy to draw bones in layout.
I also tend to avoid using weight maps if at all possible. LW bones are deformers in their own right and many times you can get away with not using weight maps and using a few additional hold bones instead. Worst case I run into is that I may have to only use very simple weight maps. I NEVER have to use a weight map per bone unless for some very specific reason like shockwave export/games etc.
Weight maps rely on modifying the standard bone influence. Its better in my experience to understand how bones work first. In the end if you add bones first you can then test tthe deformations and then determine if weight maps or hold bones are whats needed. to help fix any undesireable deformations.

Ive seen tutorials that make it appear that you have to use weight maps on every bone but this is simply not the case. Start simple and get more complex only if you have to.

On the skelegon side of things...
Make sure as Dodgy said that the tip of the parent skelegon is welded to the root of the child,
Make sure you dont have any tiny skelegons in between others that you didnt see or extra ones
that were accidentally pasted onto another one.
In layout you can easily fix bone problems. Select all the bones and hit ctrl r to turn them all off.
Move the offending bone back into place. Reselect all the bones again and hit the r key to rest them again.

05-13-2007, 12:13 AM
HEy Splinegod, I checked in modller the tip of the parent skelegon is welded to the root of the child, but for some strange reason in layout, it's not doing that, i checked the scene editor and everything is working and parented, but somehow the tip of the bones aren't connected/welded together, is there a function in layout that lets u to merge the tips of the bones together?

i read the manual and all but it's not helpful at all! this is driving me nuts! after trying out dogy's method, now things has gotten worse, when i moved one bone and tried to move another one, the one i moved previously will automatically snapped back into it's original position! so annoying!

05-13-2007, 01:12 AM
Use the joint move tool

05-13-2007, 05:19 AM
yeah i have but it's still not working, do u want me to send me you my scene file so u can ahve a look for youself?

05-13-2007, 11:21 AM
Sure, send it :)

05-14-2007, 07:44 AM
Thanks splineGod, but i ahve already sent my scene to Dodgy, he pointed out what my problems were and helping me to fix it, thanks again guys!!