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WilliamVaughan
05-11-2007, 07:02 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4044&page=1

Andyjaggy
05-11-2007, 07:20 AM
That's kind of dissapointing not a single mention of Lightwave :( They mentioned Maya though................

iconoclasty
05-11-2007, 07:29 AM
They're obviously not good journalists. They couldn't even get "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" right.

Dirk
05-11-2007, 07:44 AM
Time for another videotaped interview.

Beaker
05-11-2007, 08:38 AM
Unbelievable. There isn't a better known LightWave house than Zoic.

Red_Oddity
05-11-2007, 08:47 AM
Why are people still surprised, this is CGSociety we're talking about, if it isn't Maya, it isn't worth mentioning.

colkai
05-11-2007, 08:50 AM
Why are people still surprised, this is CGSociety we're talking about, if it isn't Maya, it isn't worth mentioning.
Now now, don't be silly, you know that's simply untrue





...there's XSI too! :devil: :p

BeeVee
05-11-2007, 09:08 AM
I was very disappointed that Fox cancelled Drive after only four shows. :( Have they got it in for Nathan Fillion or what?

B

colkai
05-11-2007, 09:14 AM
Nathan and Tim Minnear both,
S'no good, they need to bring back Firefly! :)

creativecontrol
05-11-2007, 09:34 AM
Nathan and Tim Minnear both,
S'no good, they need to bring back Firefly! :)

I second that! :agree:

Limbus
05-11-2007, 10:09 AM
They're obviously not good journalists. They couldn't even get "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" right.
Most of the time they are not journalists at all. Often they try to sell some beffed up press realease as a preview. I would not be surprised if studios and companys pay for that kind of advertainment. I know there are magazines that work that way.

Florian

Red_Oddity
05-11-2007, 10:20 AM
Sometimes i wonder what the entire use of CGSociety or CGTalk is, whenever you stumble upon a serious software problem, you never get answered, and their newsletters are nothing more but spam to sell their 'coffee table' books by Ballistic Publishing.

SaturnX
05-11-2007, 10:55 AM
Serenity was voted by the UK public on 'Film2005 with Jonathan ross' as the best film of the year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/film2005/filmofyear_2005.shtml

More Recently it got voted best scifi film, beating Starwars, in a SFX magazine poll of 3,000 fans.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6517155.stm

I doubt it'll be back as a series, on tv. Its firmly cinema property now.
The cast and crew have all moved on anyway.

colkai
05-11-2007, 11:06 AM
their newsletters are nothing more but spam to sell their 'coffee table' books by Ballistic Publishing.
Ahem, yes, I too had similar thoughts.

Limbus
05-11-2007, 11:33 AM
Sometimes i wonder what the entire use of CGSociety or CGTalk is, whenever you stumble upon a serious software problem, you never get answered, and their newsletters are nothing more but spam to sell their 'coffee table' books by Ballistic Publishing.

I think you just answered it yourself :D

Limbus
05-11-2007, 11:36 AM
Serenity was voted by the UK public on 'Film2005 with Jonathan ross' as the best film of the year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/film2005/filmofyear_2005.shtml

More Recently it got voted best scifi film, beating Starwars, in a SFX magazine poll of 3,000 fans.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6517155.stm

I doubt it'll be back as a series, on tv. Its firmly cinema property now.
The cast and crew have all moved on anyway.

It would be so cool if they would bring Firefly back. :agree:

Florian

Andyjaggy
05-11-2007, 05:45 PM
Not gonna happen, but it would be cool.

musick
05-11-2007, 06:07 PM
I could see another serenity movie on the cards perhaps... The cast and crew really enjoyed working on it, firefly and serenity i mean. Well, i will always be waiting in hope...

colkai
05-12-2007, 03:29 AM
Time to roll out the Firefly set for another airing methinks :)

iconoclasty
05-12-2007, 09:56 AM
We can't keep doing this to each other. No matter how much we want it, Firefly is never coming back. We have to come to terms with that fact. :cry:
Besides. Wash is dead gorramit. :mad:

Andyjaggy
05-12-2007, 10:00 AM
They probably did that so that people would be less likely to insist on another one being made :)

gatz
05-13-2007, 05:19 PM
Like Whedon hasn't brought dead characters back to life.

rg

iconoclasty
05-13-2007, 08:46 PM
True, and now with the cancellation of Drive, I guess Nathan Fillion is available.

Red_Oddity
05-14-2007, 02:25 AM
Like Whedon hasn't brought dead characters back to life.

rg
Yeah, but i seriously doubt Wash has his soul captured in a jewel that prevents him from really dying...this isn't Buffy in space :D

zardoz
05-14-2007, 02:48 AM
well the thread at cgtalk was closed so no more cryticism on that article...I guess we still have censorship in the 21st century in the 'free world'...

Dirk
05-14-2007, 04:36 AM
Muahahahahahaaaaa - I love the discussion thread over at CGTalk!

I really wonder how the CGS staff felt after Kevin Quattro told them that their article was, hum, somewhat inaccurate...

Let me recapitulate: Zoic is producing the most exciting, big-cinema-quality VFX for some of the most popular tv series on the planet - and did that for some movies, too.

They are using Lightwave as their main 3D application.

CGSociety is producing an article about Zoic, that doesn't mention Lightwave once, but does mention Maya.

I won't speculate why CGSociety did that. But I would like to give them an advise:

The age of paper journalism is over. People can and will inform themselves with the click of a mouse button. So think hard who gets hurt the most by that kind if journalism...

bluerider
05-14-2007, 04:40 AM
:) excellent post, you are spot on.

BeeVee
05-14-2007, 06:51 AM
Not just Fillion and Minnear either - did you notice that the cop interviewing Alex Young's sister is the bounty hunter from Firefly ep "Objects in Space"?

B

hrgiger
05-14-2007, 07:08 AM
well the thread at cgtalk was closed so no more cryticism on that article...I guess we still have censorship in the 21st century in the 'free world'...

Yes and with a rather childish and seemingly very biased response from Leigh. Shocker.

Limbus
05-14-2007, 07:20 AM
Yes and with a rather childish and seemingly very biased response from Leigh. Shocker.
Nothing unexpected. Some people are logic resistant.

mattclary
05-14-2007, 07:26 AM
Yeah, but i seriously doubt Wash has his soul captured in a jewel that prevents him from really dying...this isn't Buffy in space :D

I don't know man, River seems to have some potential as a slayer. Be funny for the crew to run into Spike or Angel still kicking around out in the black...

Beaker
05-14-2007, 08:58 AM
Yes and with a rather childish and seemingly very biased response from Leigh. Shocker.

If CGSociety wants to convince us they don't have a bias against LightWave, Leigh is the absolute last person they should have spreading that message on their behalf. :thumbsdow

Dirk
05-14-2007, 09:05 AM
GOSH. Is it just me, or did they remove the link to the disussion thread in the article ??????

http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4044&page=2

Beaker
05-14-2007, 09:08 AM
GOSH. Is it just me, or did they remove the link to the disussion thread in the article ??????

http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4044&page=2

Yes, they did. You can still find it in the CG News section, but now that it's been locked it's dropping fast.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=495217

Dirk
05-14-2007, 09:18 AM
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Har Har Har ....

This is getting better every minute... CGS is really the gift that keeps on giving.

For informed people, that is better than any advertisment Newtek could come up with!

Now, let me recapitulate once again:

Zoic is producing the most exciting, big-cinema-quality VFX for some of the most popular tv series on the planet - and did that for some movies, too.

They are using Lightwave as their main 3D application.

CGSociety is producing an article about Zoic, that doesn't mention Lightwave once, but does mention Maya.

CGS gets critisized in their forum for not mentioning Lightwave - and rightly so.

Kevin "Q" Quattro, CG Supervisor at Zoic Studios tells them (very nicely) in the related disussion thread that their article isn't really accurate.

CGS *REMOVES* the link to the discussion thread that was right there in the article.

Muahahahah HA HA HA HA.

bluerider
05-14-2007, 09:28 AM
Awesome thread on CGTalk........you chaps make me proud to be a LightWave user.

kyuzo
05-14-2007, 10:01 AM
I agree with blue rider. Keep up the good work guys.:thumbsup:

The way I see it, many GCS members like to take the "it's the artist not the package" attitude, but then the industry and it's propoganda is flooded with Maya, Max, etc...
All the more reason for LWavers to stand up and be counted when articles are obviously not presenting the whole truth.

And Buffy the Vampire Killer? I mean c'mon! Don't they know anything!?

Dirk
05-14-2007, 10:11 AM
I think the folks at Zoic or any other Lightwave using VFX company have a vested interest in not getting their major app (or one of their major apps) burried that way.

Newtek should send somebody with a video camera and a microphone over there, produce a nice video, covering the making of VFX for Buffy, Galactica, Serenity, etc., and put it on the Newtek website.

Titus
05-14-2007, 10:14 AM
This was a situation they didn't handle correctly. After being confronted by the correct information they should have changed the article, but instead decided to call fanboys to all the people making valid and respectul complains.

Sometimes is good to be an underdog.

ChrisDC
05-14-2007, 11:00 AM
I'm sorry, perhaps I have no business being critical on my first post, but I'm going to disagree with the prevailing opinion. If you look at the various profile's CGSociety have posted you will see that the vast majority make only passing references to software used (including Lightwave in some cases), and some don't mention software at all. It looks to me as if the CGsociety writers aren't that interested in reporting 'Zoic use X, Blue Sky use Y, and The Mill use Z', they're just trying to write something interesting.

You might say that Zoic's extensive use of Lightwave deserves a mention in a studio profile, it's certainly a legitimate argument. You might even say that they focus too much on the big three packages, although I think that case is far from proven. Having said this as far as I'm concerned the accusations of incompetence and ignoring Lightwave at Autodesk's behest were not respectful comments. There are more innocent explanations.

Dirk
05-14-2007, 11:27 AM
You might say that Zoic's extensive use of Lightwave deserves a mention in a studio profile, it's certainly a legitimate argument. You might even say that they focus too much on the big three packages, although I think that case is far from proven. Having said this as far as I'm concerned the accusations of incompetence and ignoring Lightwave at Autodesk's behest were not respectful comments. There are more innocent explanations.


Hi Chris,

well, that's certainly true, and there really might be an innocent explanation for not mentioning Lightwave in an article about Zoic. Given the direct feedback that they got, it might have been a good thing to apologize or explain, and change the article in an appropriate way.

However, the whole further conduct was just *ridiculous*.

It's so convenient to close the thread because of some (probably silly) accusations. But the most postings where very respectful, and their complaints are legitimate.

To close the thread *and* to remove the link to it, *allthough* Q chimed in let's me think that the CGS staff handled this situation in a

very, very, very pooooooor way.

...and obviously, they don't understand how the internet works.

bluerider
05-14-2007, 11:38 AM
Dirk=To close the thread *and* to remove the link to it, *allthough* Q chimed in let's me think that the CGS staff handled this situation in a

very, very, very pooooooor way.

...and obviously, they don't understand how the internet works.

---------------------

PMSL

ChrisDC
05-14-2007, 11:53 AM
Hi, you're right, and I should have said that I don't think the mods responded correctly in this case. Ultimately their articles are there own and they can do whatever they think best with them, but I don't think they should start throwing around there own accusations and insults. The whole thread (on CGS) just seemed rather counter-productive.

Celshader
05-14-2007, 05:37 PM
I followed the CGTalk link posted in this thread. For what it's worth, here's what Zoic's Kevin Quattro posted in the commentary thread for that article:


From http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4383916&postcount=28

This was a very decent article. I appreciate the press and exposure as an employee at Zoic Studios. I've been at Zoic since before Day One and am very proud of all the people there.

While trying to remain neutral it's hard not judge the editor's failure to mention software key to the exciting visuals shown in that article.

With exception to the HP images shown, nearly 100% of the images in that article were generated using Lightwave. Maya was used for modeling many of the assets though. So the sidebar on Maya's usage is appropiate.

Kevin "Q" Quattro
CG Supervisor - Zoic Studios

Cageman
05-15-2007, 12:28 AM
Hmm... with over 5,500 views in that thread I wonder how many will think LW-users are fanboys? I agree with you guys in general, but fighting about it in a NEWS-thread at CGT isn't going to help spread the word about how awesome the LW-community is.

Everyone wanting to get into the 3D-industry knows about CGTalk. Maybe they never visit it, but they most likely have heard about it. Imagine how they would look at LW-users when viewing that thread? Of course, CGT made a mistake and that is also going to be reflected upon the viewers. I just wonder how many non-LW users would get interrested in LW?

Some people posted links to other articles that clearly have aknowledged most of the tools Zoic use, and that is what I believe is the "correct" way to spread a true story, rather than make the thread locked with bitter comments.

IMHO, of course...

Bog
05-15-2007, 01:50 AM
Yeah, but i seriously doubt Wash has his soul captured in a jewel that prevents him from really dying...this isn't Buffy in space :D

"It just sounds a bit.... science fictiony."

"You live on a spaceship, dear."

:D

Regarding the article... no surprise whatsoever. Either they're the shoddiest journalists going, or despite all their protestations they do have an issue with mentioning LightWave. Either way, it's not worth me adding to their hit-counter.

Dirk
05-15-2007, 02:56 AM
WE HAVE A LINK! ;D ;D ;D

No, seriously, on page 2 of the article, there are now links to....

... a certain 3D software, Photoshop, and ... Newtek.

ROFL, this is so much fun!

kyuzo
05-15-2007, 03:24 AM
I understand what you're saying cageman, and it's important for LWavers to conduct themselves in a professional manner to avoid looking like a bunch of fanboys, but the major gripe for me was the inaccuracies and obvious omissions in the article.
As you say, almost everyone knows about CGTalk. And considering the article was in a NEWS section, all the more reason it should have been accurate and unbiased. I work in the news industry and shoddy reporting and a failure to check basic facts should not be tolerated.
And lets face it there is a pattern here (not neccessarily restricted to CGTalk) - The Guardian, 300, and now this...

Celshader
05-15-2007, 03:46 AM
Everyone wanting to get into the 3D-industry knows about CGTalk.

I wish these folks luck, but I'm not sure how CGTalk will help them get into the 3D-industry. Two months ago a co-worker commented that he didn't bother with CGTalk because it had too many amateurs, not enough professionals and not enough jobs. He recommended another forum (http://www.2-popforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=180) for job leads.

Dirk
05-15-2007, 04:08 AM
Hmm... with over 5,500 views in that thread I wonder how many will think LW-users are fanboys? I agree with you guys in general, but fighting about it in a NEWS-thread at CGT isn't going to help spread the word about how awesome the LW-community is.


I don't think so. Most responses where very respectful, and the reason for that was not to give the staff any excuse to close the thread. However, a phony excuse was found, thread closed, link removed, then, new links where placed in the article, ...it's like a joke. How embarrassing for CGS...

If they do not want to mention Lightwave, they shouldn't mention any application at all. But what's the point writing an article about Zoic and NOT mentioning Lightwave? I feel brazenly misinformed by such articles, and I'm not alone.

Also, the "hey, it's the artist, not the tool" - posts where somewhat hillarious. Yeah, the tool isn't really relevant, especially when the name of the tool is Lightwave...

serge
05-15-2007, 04:43 AM
WE HAVE A LINK! ;D ;D ;D

No, seriously, on page 2 of the article, there are now links to....

... a certain 3D software, Photoshop, and ... Newtek.

ROFL, this is so much fun!
HEY, why is it mentioned at the bottom of the list??? :mad:.........:p ;)

SaturnX
05-15-2007, 06:59 AM
There are dark forces are work...

bluerider
05-15-2007, 07:46 AM
There are dark forces are work...

Talking of Dark Forces, when are you going to post up some of your work. I love that dragon you did. The Dragon the Lion for that story. :)

mattclary
05-15-2007, 08:54 AM
HEY, why is it mentioned at the bottom of the list??? :mad:.........:p ;)

They went alphabetically. They just chose to use "Autodesk" and chose to forego "Adobe". ;)

edit:
OOPS, just revisited kindergarten and realized L comes before P....

Speedmonk42
05-15-2007, 09:12 AM
They do what they are paid to do.

That is all.

All magazines are like this. Imagine what it is like reading a magazine of an industry you don't know anything about.... Boat World, Home and Garden.....

How would you ever distinguish a real article from information massaged towards that which pays the bills.

The only difference here is you see it happening.

SaturnX
05-15-2007, 10:28 AM
Talking of Dark Forces, when are you going to post up some of your work. I love that dragon you did. The Dragon the Lion for that story. :)

Hi bluerider, I hear yah. :)

mosconariz
05-15-2007, 01:11 PM
After 3 years and something like 1,300 posts, a thread with 20,000 visits, 2 challenges, 2 stupid cafe books with great images but useles info... I got banned the other day in that site... the reason? I talked about my site: www.blazzam.com (http://www.blazzam.com) and asked people to upload there own videogames and stuff, and also to download free games to their cellphones... that was spaming for CGS and they banned me without sending me any mail or something...

I was thinking in apologyze myself, but with this attitude they have with lightwave community, I doubt it. I think I'll continue my own way without that specific forum. :thumbsdow

:lwicon: :beerchug: :lwicon:

Cageman
05-15-2007, 01:33 PM
I wish these folks luck, but I'm not sure how CGTalk will help them get into the 3D-industry.

Hmm...maybe I used the wrong wording... :) I dare to say that everyone knows/heard about CGTalk.. both amateurs and proffesionals. And they will probably visit the place, even if it only turns out they visit it once. Wether CGTalk can help people get a job in the industry is beyond my knowledge, but they do facilitate a huge forum for people to post images and expose themselves. I know of two interns here at Massive that both have gotten CG Awards at CGTalk, and believe it or not, but it does weigh in. They are very good Concept/texture artists.

zardoz
05-16-2007, 04:37 AM
lol now it looks like newtek 'payed' them to have a link in that article...Lightwave isn't mentioned in the article and has a link??! "that's strange...why should a software that isn't mentioned in the article have a link here?? hmm...fishy..."

Celshader
05-16-2007, 12:18 PM
lol now it looks like newtek 'payed' them to have a link in that article...Lightwave isn't mentioned in the article and has a link??! "that's strange...why should a software that isn't mentioned in the article have a link here?? hmm...fishy..."

With the exception of the HP commercial, "nearly 100% of the images" (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4383916&postcount=28) in the Zoic article have LightWave imagery in them. Since the article's packed with LightWave renders, it makes sense to include a LightWave link.

mattclary
05-16-2007, 01:51 PM
With the exception of the HP commercial, "nearly 100% of the images" (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4383916&postcount=28) in the Zoic article have LightWave imagery in them. Since the article's packed with LightWave renders, it makes sense to include a LightWave link.

WE know that, but the uninitiated would not know why LW has a link there.

Celshader
05-16-2007, 01:56 PM
WE know that, but the uninitiated would not know why LW has a link there.

If so, maybe they'll get curious enough to figure it out.

mosconariz
06-07-2007, 08:29 PM
CGNEWS...

LightWave on 24 - LightWave effects explode in the dynamic sixth season of "24".

Well, that's something :thumbsup: