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View Full Version : 9.2: Really Unsatble So Far



MLynch
05-09-2007, 12:58 AM
As much as I love the additions to 9.2's tool set and capabilities, I have to say I'm surprised at the number of Unexpected Quits I've been getting! And nearly all of them in Layout. 9.0 hardly ever crashed on me, and in the 7 months that I was using 9.0 I can probablly count the number of times it crashed on one hand. ...But Layout in 9.2 has crashed on me well over 10 times in the past 2 hours. My first serious shake down of 9.2 has been less than productive, and extremely frustrating. ...I'm seriously questioning my ability to use 9.2 in a production environment.

I'm not running the hub, so that's not the issue. The crashes range from hitting "undo", to moving a camera, to updating textures (node or layered), moving lights, opening Properties panels... you name it. I even thought that FPrime 3 might be the reason, but I'm still crashing even when I'm not using FPrime.

My system specs are: PowerMac G5 Quad, 4GB RAM, Geforce 7800 vid card, OS 10.4.9

StereoMike
05-09-2007, 01:04 AM
Could it be the 3rd party plugins? You could try to run LW without these plugins and see if you can force a crash (hopefully they are not all random).
In my case lw 9.2 works very good, but that's just me on a pc.
mike

MLynch
05-09-2007, 01:30 AM
I'm not using that many 3rd party plug-ins, but it's worth a try.

Thanks, Mike. Hopefully that will help.

LAV
05-09-2007, 04:13 AM
... mmhmmm... I found that a maior new in LW9.x is its total stability. Really steady and hard as a rock (apart from the well known viper issue).
I'm using a lot of previous installed plugs. Fews of them I needed to remove...
I think it's a problem strictly related with your configuration.
bye!

kfinla
05-09-2007, 06:37 AM
I'm also finding 9.2 layout very unstable (CFM).. i just installed the upgrade lastnight and have crashed dozens of times.. i was running 8.3, and 8.5 with fprime 3.01, and the hub and going without issue. At first i thought it could be related to nodes but I keep killing the hub and find I can crash doing just about anything, clicking just about anywhere on screen. I'm gonna guess this is an openGL drivers issue.. but im really not sure.. im pretty disappointed and hope the UB is significantly more stable..

OSX 10.4.9 - 2 gigs of ram, FW800 DP G4 :(..Readon 9000 128mb card, I have dual monitors if thats means anything)

I just have a handful of plugins added.. Lynx Normal displacement, Sasquatch, Fprime, G2, Polk..

kfinla
05-09-2007, 06:40 AM
P.S. does anyone have any Mac detailed instructions for turning off the hub.. I find it seems to be running processes for both LW 9.0 and 9.2 .. And would like anything that would equal more stability in Layout since i'm currently walking on egg shells trying to use it.

kfinla
05-09-2007, 06:49 AM
I haven't used Modeler besides just opening it a few times to see how it is in 9.2..

I switched from VBO to streaming in the layout OpenGL options tab also.. since i recall VBO's causing stability issues in Modo.

Do my configs or prefs need to be adjusted, or wiped out? i basically installed 9.0 and then 9.2 immediatley after. Yesterday evening.

MLynch
05-09-2007, 10:43 AM
I deleted my Config files for layout, and got rid of all 3rd party plug-ins... no change. I've now tried switching from VBO to streaming in Open GL as kfinla has suggested. ...so far so good. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

kfinla - To switch off my Hub I simply moved it out of the Programs folder. You can edit the command lines for Layout and Modeler by adding -0 to the cmdline files, but I find it easier to simply move it. I have my Hub and Hub cmdline in a folder called "Removed Programs." I have the folder out in the Lightwave 9.2 folder.

I had a similar question about 9.0 and 9.2 sharing configs. If you don't tell LW to do otherwise the two versions will use the same configs. Create a folder in you Programs folder called "Configs." Then open the cmdline files for Modeler and Layout in a text edit app and insert the following code:

-c"Your Computer Name:Applications:NewTek:LightWave 3D 9.2:programs:Configs"
-p"Your Computer Name:Applications:NewTek:LightWave 3D 9.2:programs:Configs"

-c is for the apps configs and -p is for your plugin configs. Everything inside the quotes should be your folder hierarchy to get to your Configs folder starting with the name of your hard drive. You'll need to do this for both 9.0 and 9.2

Chilton
05-09-2007, 10:52 AM
If you send me your crash log ( [email protected] ) I might be able to clear things up a bit.

-Chilton

MLynch
05-09-2007, 12:12 PM
Chilton -

Thanks, man. You've got mail. :thumbsup:

kfinla
05-09-2007, 12:18 PM
Yes, I'm, sure once I'm home and can try and diagnose things more you'll get mail from me also.

Snosrap
05-09-2007, 04:23 PM
video driver issue? No problems here, it's been a real treat.

Snosrap

kfinla
05-09-2007, 05:07 PM
video driver issue? No problems here, it's been a real treat.

Snosrap

I cant tell if thats sarcasm or accolades:D

kfinla
05-09-2007, 07:18 PM
At this point im quite confident that my instabilty issues in Layout all have to do with nodes.. activating/deactivating them.. rendering them, hooking things up in the node editor.

I brought in a scene ive been working on.. that is peppered with g2 settings.. did not apply any nodal surfaces or displacemnet and things seem to be fine. Rendering away in fprime 3.01 as i type this with a real lense camera and a luminous poly gone and HDRI.. using lynx normal displacement plugin for displacement..

ps. i've been stripping the g2 and shadow of sasquatch shaders from this object when trying to convert my surfaces to nodes... since i was afraid ther could be a conflict.. or 2x the SSS

kfinla
05-10-2007, 01:48 AM
Crashed a couple times tonight opening up the node editor.. not immediately but basically as the material swatches finished drawing. Moved the Hub and Cmnd line to a seperate folder, thanks MLynch.

kfinla
05-10-2007, 02:01 AM
My new theory is that perhaps its a Memory/buffer issue.. i seem to be able to open up the Node editor several times.. perhaps 2 maybe 3 times a work session before it crashes which may coincide with the crashes happening at the end of the swatch redraws.

kfinla
05-10-2007, 02:07 AM
I consistantly crash opening up the node editor... the inital seesion in the node editor is fine right after the scene loads.. but opening it up again a 2nd or 3rd time is a crap shoot. I generally will have done an frpime preview between each time i open the node editor.

kfinla
05-12-2007, 01:55 PM
Any ideas Clinton?.. i sent numerous emails your way with crash logs. I've signed up for the UB beta.. haven't installed it as i wanted to lurk a bit first and see how ppl are finding it. Still waiting for that beta forum to appear for me..

kfinla
05-12-2007, 02:05 PM
I'm hoping the UB beta is more stable than the current 9.2.0 CFM build for me since I crash often.

Chilton
05-12-2007, 04:55 PM
Hi Ken,

The crash logs you sent were very helpful. They all point to a problem between OpenGL and your video card, on PowerPC hardware. I have not been able to reproduce it here on the Universal Binary. I haven't absolutely ruled it out as a CFM bug though, which another few days of testing should remedy.

In the meantime, please try this again (opening and closing the scene editor) without doing the FPrime preview, and see if it still happens. I personally think this is a CFM issue with your video card, but I'm not ruling anything out, just yet.

If you go to http://register.newtek.com, log in, and click the link for 'my downloads', you'll find the Universal Binary download there.

-Chilton

kfinla
05-13-2007, 01:48 AM
Thanks Clinton.. I'm actually glad to hear its quite possibly my old graphics cards since I'm overdue for new hardware and I can do something about that.. 8-core looks very tempting.. after WWDC i think ill pull the trigger..

I will test out what you proposed and get back to you. I downloaded the UB today but have not gotten around to setting it up. Thanks again.

kfinla
05-13-2007, 02:11 PM
I've just had LW open for a few hours.. opened the scene editor several times.. and used the surface editor (which i think u actually meant).. adjusted my simpleskin setup.. a half dozen times.. built and applied a nodal displacement.. to the object.. rendered with real lense, and perspective camera a few times at different rez's and everything is fine.. No Fprime 3.01 and things seem fine. Ofcourse.. this isn't great news since my computer is pretty slow to be doing nodal render tests on. :( But very interesting non the less and good to see.

MLynch
05-14-2007, 05:36 AM
Chilton -

I'm not seeing any links to download a UB version in "My Downloads" - just the version of 9.2.0 32 bit OSX version I downloaded before. (added 4-30-07) ...BTW - excuse my ignorance, but what's CFM stand for?


Kfinla -

Are you noticing any performance issues running the UB version on your PPC? ...namely and slowdowns? Have you tried using FPrime with it yet? Is it playing nice with the UB version? Just curious.

kfinla
05-14-2007, 05:49 AM
Still haven't installed/setup the UB.. just did that test Chilton suggested, opening and closing the nodal editor etc without running or doing any render tests with frpime...

MLynch
05-14-2007, 08:07 AM
OK, thanks.

Since Friday, I've been doing a lot of renders and haven't really done hardcore scene set-up - so the only crash I've experienced was directly related to FPrime. I spent a large part of last week setting-up scenes for render. Once this project is done I'll see how things are running. But I have to say that so far after switching my Open GL settings to streaming my stability has been better... and I've found myself having to tweak some textures just prior to render (nodal and layered) to accomodate last minute changes.

After today I'll give Layout another shake-down without FPrime and see how it fairs.

If this is realted to the CFM build and the PPC video cards what are the chances of seeing a fix in the 9.2.1 patch tha has been discussed in another thread (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68105)?

simonwoods
05-14-2007, 01:04 PM
I downloaded 9.2 the other day - I had modellor crash while using layout, when I re-opened the file, most of the geometry was destroyed - I lost shaders and all sorts. The file had alot of sasquatch in it, I dont know if this was a factor. I started to re-build using earlier files, modellor crashed twice already while tweaking shades in layout - I'm going back to working in version 9 till its safe

kfinla
05-15-2007, 12:51 AM
I just wanted to say LW 9.2 cfm has been rock solid for me since i stopped using fprime 3.01.. scenes with 300k+ polys and 4x4k displacement maps.. havent crashed at all..

TOXE
05-16-2007, 03:47 AM
This morning i'm not able to import any object in Layout, i've trashed the preference files. I've installed LW 9.2 two days ago and i'm really frustrated.

AARRGH!

Chilton
05-16-2007, 06:40 AM
Hi Toxe,

What happens when you try to import an object?

-Chilton

kfinla
05-16-2007, 08:09 AM
Hey Chilton, would it be possible for you to look into my Profile/account.. I've been waiting for about 5 days now for the Mac UB workshop/Beta forum to show up with my login. I've registered my UB beta serial.

TOXE
05-16-2007, 08:22 AM
Hi CHilton, simply the Layout crash and quit! Also, i've tried to open the file Sketch_Graphite.lws in the content and others. I'm running with the latest release of OSX on a G4 double 1ghz. Another strange thing is that the HUB remain active after the crash and when i want to close it a dialog says that lightwave it's still active... So, it's impossible for me to work with LW now...

TOXE
05-16-2007, 08:30 AM
ah, another thing... It's impossible to use the function "switch to layout" and "send object to layout" from the modeler...

Activator
05-16-2007, 10:06 AM
I've been following this thread as I'd like to start working with LW 9.2 (non-UB) on a daily basis.

I just spent about 6 hours "testing" 9.2 on my system. I've loaded up a bunch recent projects - projects with hundreds of thousands of polys and points, raytracing, reflections, transparency, dynamics, volumetrics, etc. - sent models to/from Modeler, modified models, rendered with the Classic Camera as well as the Perspective Camera, etc, etc. I even got RenderFarm Commander fully set up and working, and I haven't had ONE crash or hiccup! None. Rock solid, so far.

Even things like the slow re-draw and lagging when switching to/from Modeler aren't an issue for me. No Node Editor crash either. About the only thing I noticed is that a scene with Dynamics took a little longer than usual to load, maybe due to reading the .bdd file?

I think TOXE has some sort of hardware/software incompatibility or hasn't installed LW correctly. I noticed that if I open Layout and hit F12 to open Modler, it opened Modeler 9.0. Maybe TOXE is having a config issue?

Oh, and I'm NOT using Fprime either.

My system: MacPro (Intel) Dual 2.66, 5 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT, OS 10.4.9

MLynch
05-16-2007, 11:12 AM
I just wanted to say LW 9.2 cfm has been rock solid for me since i stopped using fprime 3.01.. scenes with 300k+ polys and 4x4k displacement maps.. havent crashed at all..


Ditto! :thumbsup: 9.2 has been running very stable since I stopped using FPrime's preview.

So here's a question: does this mean that there's a problem with LW working with FPrime 3.0.1? Or there's a problem with FPrime 3.0.1 and PPC video cards?

kfinla
05-16-2007, 07:31 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb an assume its a mac specific issue otherwise we probably would of heard more about it..

Scazzino
05-16-2007, 08:06 PM
I've always had stability problems using FPrime on the Mac. I've pretty much gotten used to always pausing the preview, making a change, resetting FPrime and then resuming the preview... otherwise I get lots of crashes if I make changes while the preview is running, particularly surface or object changes.

plandrey
05-16-2007, 08:47 PM
I've just begun experimenting with 9.2 on my iMac G4 1GHz. I've been able to open the node editor with no problems. But when I try to make a change in the Surface Editor (like turning on Smoothing) I get an unexpected crash. Granted, I've got a pretty old machine, but come on...

At work, I've been running 9.2 on my MacPro Quad 2.6GHz machines with no problems whatsoever. The Hub even seems to work. It's just on the older PowerMac Dual 2GHz machines that some things don't seem to work perfectly--like syncronizing between Layout and Modeler...but at least they're not crashing.

Maybe it's time I upgraded at home...

Any other suggestions?

Chilton
05-16-2007, 09:35 PM
Hi,

Unexpected crashes are never acceptable. Please send me a crash log, if you get one ( [email protected] ).

-Chilton

MLynch
05-17-2007, 08:02 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb an assume its a mac specific issue otherwise we probably would of heard more about it..

Yeah it's definitely a Mac-based issue.


I've always had stability problems using FPrime on the Mac. I've pretty much gotten used to always pausing the preview, making a change, resetting FPrime and then resuming the preview... otherwise I get lots of crashes if I make changes while the preview is running, particularly surface or object changes.

That's a great idea, Mike. ...Not sure why I hadn't thought of doing that myself. But that's a great tip. Thanks. :thumbsup:

MLynch
05-17-2007, 08:10 AM
Hi,

Unexpected crashes are never acceptable. Please send me a crash log, if you get one ( [email protected] ).

-Chilton


BTW, LW quits if I try to use Dissolve (in Modeler) on more than one edge at a time. This happened in 9.0 too.

Next time it happens I'll send you the crash log. :thumbsup:

surfingmarmot
05-19-2007, 01:09 PM
A dialog pops up to tell me I don't have a viewer enabled and asks if I want to open one. If I select "No", LW exits abruptly (crashes). If I select "Yes", the render proceeds to completion with no problems.

Is this is a known defect or perhaps something is amiss with my system.

LW 3D 9.2 Mac PPC 32-bit final release (not beta)
G5 1.8 Ghz x 2
OS X 10.4.9
6GB DDR SDRAM
ATI X800 XT 256MB DDR

Chilli
05-29-2007, 03:35 AM
Mike pausing FPrime, what a good idea, I'll try this as I also seem to be crashing a lot recently, I'm running FPrime all the time but it seems to happen when I use Editing in Image Editor to tweak an image!

Mac Dual G5
OS 10.4.9

Lightwave 9.2

Activator
05-29-2007, 06:05 AM
I just finished two big ongoing projects and decided to start my next project in LW 9.2. I needed to make a "grid" of 3D "planes" which would have an image displayed on each plane. The model is about 300,000 polys. LW 9.2 became so slow and unresponsive that I could barely work! (Both Modeler and Layout) Simply moving the model in Modeler would trigger the "spinning beachball" for a good 2-3 MINUTES!

I went back to LW 9.0, re-built the model exactly the same way, and Modeler and Layout respond nearly instantly! Some minor "beachball" action, but about 1000 percent faster than LW 9.2.

??????

This is really strange, as I had opened some recent, hi-poly, projects built in 9.0 in 9.2, and they seemed responsive and worked just fine.

Anyway, I'm back to 9.0 for this project...

MacPro dual 2.66, 5 GIG RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT, OS 10.4.9

WillBellJr
06-01-2007, 10:24 AM
Well I was having this problem after just purchasing Pictrix's PolyEdit, I couldn't install it without modeler crashing after a quit.

I did a search here to see if this was a common problem - apparently it is and it's quite annoying to say the least!


I also have LWCAD 2.1 and before I finished reading this thread, copied ALL my 3rd party plugins out to a seperate folder and sure enough LWCAD was the last one I removed and the problems stopped so I can confirm that it appears to be LWCAD...

The polyedit plugin still wouldn't show up in the additional menu so I deleted all of the LW cfg files, and now it's back and working as advertised.

I couldn't get KWEdgeSmoother or VertiBevel2x to work any longer (I thought perhaps KWEdgeSmoother was just not compat with LW any longer (even though I see the page still offering sales; I didn't get a email response back when I asked if KW was still compatible with LW9x)

I'ma try loading that one again to see if it works now that LWCAD has been removed. Perhaps VertiBevel as well.

WTools definitely needs to look into this just for GP.

-Will

WillBellJr
06-01-2007, 10:34 AM
As a quick note, KWEdgeSmoother is now installed and working again as well

-Will

Scazzino
06-01-2007, 11:13 AM
Mike pausing FPrime, what a good idea, I'll try this as I also seem to be crashing a lot recently, I'm running FPrime all the time but it seems to happen when I use Editing in Image Editor to tweak an image!

Mac Dual G5
OS 10.4.9

Lightwave 9.2

Yes, I think FPrime added that pause/resume command just for us Mac users since there were apparently certain edits in LW that don't get transmitted to FPrime in LW Mac, so it crashes... Pausing FPrime during texture/image/object/surface edits and then resetting it and restarting the render prevents a lot of these crashes...

GoneGuy
06-07-2007, 08:00 PM
(bit late to this meeting, sorry, traffic was terrible, but gotta say after only just joining this forum, despite the individual frustrations experienced, it is soooo refreshing to read Mac specific processes and problems! Thanks)

I'm assuming when talking about pausing in FPrime your using the specific utility for Macs - 'Unpause/Pause' - that comes with the FPrime plugin, and that you make a button for in the LW UI? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

r

Scazzino
06-07-2007, 08:19 PM
(bit late to this meeting, sorry, traffic was terrible, but gotta say after only just joining this forum, despite the individual frustrations experienced, it is soooo refreshing to read Mac specific processes and problems! Thanks)

I'm assuming when talking about pausing in FPrime your using the specific utility for Macs - 'Unpause/Pause' - that comes with the FPrime plugin, and that you make a button for in the LW UI? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

r

Yes, that's correct. No problem. :)