View Full Version : Activating bones causes my model to warp.

05-08-2007, 01:53 PM
Ok. No doubt this is going to be a question with a simple awnser (i hope) but i just cant seem to figure out what im doing wrong. I rigged up my model and when i activate my bones it completely warps. I always start activating my main bone. So far nothing happens. When i activate the second one. My model rotates 90 degrees on the Y an Z axis and if i keep on activating bones the model just warps like a piece of paper you just mesh with your hands. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? If more information is necissary please ask.

Thanks In advance

05-08-2007, 02:27 PM
You probably need to rest the bones by stepping through the bone hierarchy and hitting the r key. Did you do that? That should be done before they are made active.

05-08-2007, 02:30 PM
Dude... your my new hero. :D Can I ask you what it exactly is I just did? Knowing a solution to a problem is nice. Knowing what the solution actually did is how one learns :)

05-08-2007, 02:51 PM
You can select all the bones at once and hit the r key without having to step thru each bone one by one. :)

When you REST a bone it basically does and internal form of weighting so that each vertex knows which bones have the most influence on them. The bones rest postion, rest rotation and rest length are all taken into account.

05-08-2007, 03:43 PM
Yes, it's just another tedious step in the rigging process. Hopefully Newtek can do away with this one when they work on the character animation toolset for the 9.x cycle. I mean, of COURSE we want to rest the bones. It should just be an assumed step, one of those internal operations that we shouldn't have to concern ourselves with. Just MHO of course.

05-08-2007, 03:48 PM
You can select all the bones at once and hit the r key without having to step thru each bone one by one. :)
Thanks for pointing that out, every tutorial I read had me stepping through the hierarchy. I always thought it was a pain.

05-09-2007, 12:26 AM
Its very easy to do since you can select all the bones in several ways:
Selection sets
Flyout panels
Select all bones of current object command
LW Select Group command etc.

Many things dont have to be so tedious :)

05-09-2007, 03:00 AM
hahaha... i figured that out only a couple of weeks ago. Bought the lightwave 9 3d garage courseware. All the selection toolsets for instance... all hidden. Never knew they were there. Funny though. If you poke around long enough through all the submenu's a lot of interesting tools come to light. :)

05-09-2007, 06:02 AM
Watch out. Sometimes the bones get "unrested" (and the scene is therefore totally screwed) when you close the project and reopen it.

Save frequently.

06-07-2007, 04:50 PM
"Watch out. Sometimes the bones get "unrested" (and the scene is therefore totally screwed) when you close the project and reopen it. "

How do you stop that from happening?

06-08-2007, 12:22 AM
If it does go to your base pose on frame 0, select all the bones and hit the r key. :)

06-08-2007, 08:51 AM
Thank you Larry, and if you are still there, I have another quick question.... I made a rig on a model and want to place him in a seat. I work with aviation accidents and I want to have his feet 'follow' the motion of the pedals, and his hands 'follow' the movement of the joy stick - as it will get very rocky before a crash - but how do I make his body follow these items and make it look real with say his leg following the movement of his foot and his arms with the movement of his hands - do I reverse the IK somehow ??? is there a tut out there already that will show this ??? Well I'll keep plugging away and trying different things, and thanks for your time if you can help me with this....

06-08-2007, 10:13 AM
Just set up the arms and legs with a standard IK setup. The arm goal can be parented to the joystick. You could also setup the joystick using IK and parent that goal to the arm goal.
The foot can be make to follow the rotation of the foot pedal using follower, expressions etc or vice versa

06-08-2007, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the reply Larry I will try it out and see what happens...
Thanks again for your time...

06-08-2007, 01:00 PM
I tried to do the Follower deal, but I guess that too has been a long time since I used that, cuz I couldn't get it to work like I remember working it.
Sheesh, I feel lame with LW these days, thats what happens when you spend sooo much time in Vue LOL

And yeah, Larry, my thread in the SpinQuad is for this same project on the Pilot :)

Hi Carol :)

.............................md :)

06-08-2007, 01:34 PM
You can also try Dr Follower in Relativity. :)

06-08-2007, 03:06 PM
Dude... your my new hero. :D Can I ask you what it exactly is I just did? Knowing a solution to a problem is nice. Knowing what the solution actually did is how one learns :)

Bones are a special and kinda unique breed in Layout. They dont have a natural size - until you tell them too.

If you build an object in Modeler, it has its own finished size, once you bring it into Layout - you can't change that. Yes you can scale up or down, but you can't change its natural size.

With Bones you can, you CAN change the natural size. The natural size of a Bone is called "Rest Length".

Now to make things even more confusing we have a 'natural' or Rest Rotation as well...

So - we need to tell LightWave when we are editing the 'natural' state of the Bones as opposed to when we are animating them.

'r' is for Rest. Doing that tells LightWave we have finshed editing the natural state of the Bones and are ready to start animating.

Sometime you will not be happy with the natural state of the Bone after have started animating, and want to go back and make some changes.

The important thing to remember when you do this, is to edit the Bones in their Natural Rest positions, otherwise things will start to get confusing.

An easy way to this (as Larry suggested), is to do all of your setup on Frame 0, and any animation on Frames 1 or above. That way you are guaranteed when you go back to Frame 0 that everything is in its natural postition, and it is now safe to edit.

Last thing to remember is to deactivate (Ctrl+r) the Bones before editing - its like a way to "un-Rest" or "de-Naturalise the Bone" - then when you are finished Editing you can re-Rest the Bone to tell it "here is your new natural state".

You'll notice that activated Bones are Solid, while de-activated are Dotted in your display. Also when you Rest a Bone, LightWave automatically activates it at the same time for you too.

It all sounds much more confusing than it is, it becomes second nature pretty quickly :)

Another good tip is to set your timeline start at frame 1 when your done editing bones, this helps prevent you accidentally moving Bones out of their rest position for Frame 0. Some people also make a 'backup' of their rest positions on something like Frame -100, to do this - hit Enter on Frame 0 and type -100 into the box, hit enter again.

06-08-2007, 03:31 PM
I'm attaching a small video of what I am trying to do: i put a null, highlighted on the pedal and moved both pedals, left forward, right backwards, and am trying to get the left foot/leg to follow the left pedal forward, and no matter what i have tried, it won't follow - I tried follower and the goal and my foot bone spazed on me, not sure why. I'm sorry for being lame, but I am missing something simple and I don't know what it is....
Any comments?

06-08-2007, 04:14 PM
sorry I will repost that movie: http://www.md-arts.com/lw/NullGoal.mov

06-08-2007, 04:30 PM
another guick movie to show that I added nulls and added goals and the lines move but the body doesn't ??????????

06-08-2007, 05:21 PM
why not make the pedal a child of the foot bone?

06-08-2007, 05:22 PM
then in animation which would I put the motion to?

06-08-2007, 05:26 PM
Once you rotate the foot, the pedal will follow. If you need to take the foot off the pedal, have a dummy one that is not 'childed' to the foot and then dissolve in/out between the two.

06-08-2007, 05:30 PM
i just tried that omeone, and it didn't work either - maybe i did it wrong will try again, and if it works that way then i could put the motion to the foot bone, i guess, but when i get to the steering, that has two hands on it all the time...?
but thanks for the input i will give it a whirl...

06-08-2007, 05:33 PM
if you want to send it to me, I can take a look, you dont need to send the character model, just the scene file (replace the objects with nulls)

colin AT puffandlarkin DOT com

06-08-2007, 06:01 PM
well tgif and i am going to post one last video to show that for some reason i still can't make it work... part of the scene editor is in there to show what i am doing since i don't have audio... the leftfootgoalnull doesn't do what i thought it should...
any comments???


06-08-2007, 06:53 PM
yeah the LeftFootGoal and LeftPedalNull need to swap positions in the hierarchy.

Although you dont really need the LeftPedalNull, this should work fine (see attached image)

06-08-2007, 07:11 PM
I already sent you a message, Carol, but here's the sample anyway, just so others can see it work and stuff.
Turns out, we just forgot to set the IK Options correctly in the Motion Editor, so blushed faces all around LOL

I parented the Main pedal goal to the pedal and set the heel of the foot bone to use that goal and then I parented the Toe Goal to that First Goal Null and then set the Toe Bone to use that goal to point at so taht way it keeps the foot at a correct angle no matter which way the pedal moves.

Anyway, Hope this helps and I'll finish what I can tonight on the rig and you can do your stuff on your end there and be a happy camper :)

Here's that link:

Thanx all btw, and yeah, I kept knowing this was going to end up being something really obvious, but sometimes you just can't see the trees, what ever? LOL

Basically, it always turns out to be something staring right at ya, and this was one of those cases.
I wanted to slap myself for not catching this sooner LOL
Slap, slap, slap LOL

..............md :)

06-08-2007, 07:37 PM
Thank you for all your help, I will try it first thing on monday morning.... been fighting with this for some time now, it will be so cool when I see it working!!
Thanks again..... :thumbsup:

06-13-2007, 01:03 PM
OK, just wanted to share my little accomplishments with you and thank you for your help. This is all new to me and I'm sure I could have done more short cuts and been more perfect, but for now, I'm tickled to death.... thanks again and here is a sampler: http://www.md-arts.com/lw/TestTrial.mov

06-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Wow Carol!
That's really looking cool there!
He moves all good and his hands even turn with the wheel and everything!

Cheers to you! :)

..............md :)