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toonafish
05-07-2007, 05:59 AM
I just installed 9.2 final and loaded a scene to check if OpenGL speed has been improved in this release. I must say, I'm not impressed. Layout still suffers from the same problems it always did.
When I set as single viewport to bounding box I get no speed improvement whatsoever. I have to set the objects to bounding box in the scene editor to get any speed improvement at all.
And bone deformations with CC SubD's are slooow !

But the funniest thing is that Fprime's preview render view is way faster then LW's OpenGL :eek: When I set a 1.8 Million poly scene to bounding box and open a Fprime view I can scrub through the scene in realtime.
When I enable OpenGL, I get about 1 frame a second.

Newtek should forget about OpenGl and embed Fprime in the viewports by default :-)

Exception
05-07-2007, 06:12 AM
What are your settings?
Video card?
Scene to test?

It seems to be better for most of us :)

toonafish
05-07-2007, 06:48 AM
What are your settings?
Video card?
Scene to test?

It seems to be better for most of us :)


sorry, forgot to mention,

Dual Xeon 3.6 Ghz
Quadro FX 3400
WinXP SP 2
4 Gig ram

All OpenGL Textures, Reflections, Multitexturing etc. Off.
Tried Buffered and Streaming Geometry Acceleration with no difference.

the scene is a project we are currently working on, but it's nothing fancy. A single character with a few bones to deform him but no bone animation. Just the camera moving around and some surface animations. Classic SubD's set to 3 in OpenGl for Fprime.

tyrot
05-07-2007, 07:13 AM
dear toona

i have right here..the biggest project in our humble company history with over 2.5 million polies, dozens of MDD characters, hundreds of clipmapped trees (not instanced) and layout is INSANELY fast. Scrubbing is smooth as silk...

I have ATI 1950 XTX...So it can be your VideoCard or its drivers..

And starting a thread with this name is not COOL though. Layout is in its extremes after 10 years, so may be your eyes need Fprime for seeing refresh rate. Ask worley he will get you one...

Best

HanJobSoSlow
05-07-2007, 07:38 AM
dear toona

i have right here..the biggest project in our humble company history with over 2.5 million polies, dozens of MDD characters, hundreds of clipmapped trees (not instanced) and layout is INSANELY fast. Scrubbing is smooth as silk...

I have ATI 1950 XTX...So it can be your VideoCard or its drivers..

And starting a thread with this name is not COOL though. Layout is in its extremes after 10 years, so may be your eyes need Fprime for seeing refresh rate. Ask worley he will get you one...

Best

Great to hear your not having problems. :thumbsdow

His topic title is fine - if you cant help .... dont offer your silly opinion.

Lightwaves biggest problem is the inconsistency in how it performs - it suffers wildly different problems on dfifferent setups - this is not the problem of the user - I have never seen this randomness in ANY software before - its been a LW FEATURE long before "undo" was implemented a year or so ago.

I find Layout to be very slow.

I will try the GLSL as someone helpfully suggested.

Matt
05-07-2007, 07:52 AM
Well it's a mixed bag I guess, because Layout is fine for me.

toonafish
05-07-2007, 08:24 AM
okay, I looked into it some more.

It's looks like it's basically the bone deformations and SubD order slowing things down.

Funny enough when I disable deformations I get no OpenGL speed improvements whatsoever. But when I set the SubD order for all objects to "first" instead or "last" ( which is mostly needed for bone deformations ) and disable all deformations in the scene on top of that, OpenGL is smooth as silk.

Looks like OpenGl in LW is not completely hopeless, only for those of us doing something else then hard surface stuff :hey:

tyrot
05-07-2007, 09:05 AM
dear toonafish

hmmm you mean almost 20 MDD characters with (each of them 5000-15000 polies, Max-motionbuilder imported) at least 500 frames for each of them , lots of birds and many many small details and yes non-motion but full poly (each of them 6000) 30 characters..

is it curvy enough? or you want more? Or you think ARCH viz is same after 9.2 for us? You may ask those HARD surfaces to our MAX competitors they are pretty overwhelmed with RPCs lately..:)

hanj, hey man i cant offer my silly help to you, cuz i guess you are genius enough to not to choose other GL modes right under that panel.

and toona was one of the oldest LW users . When he says it is HOPELESS that means something.

For many of similar types of users, LW was also dead, GI was suck, Everything was going down and we should all bury our lightwave dongles and purchase modo. But things didnt quite go as they expected. 9.2 rocks very very hard in many areas.

One of the areas we are talking about here is OPENGL improvements. So In modeler and in layout BETA after BETA we have tested great OpenGL enhancements ...But i must add bone deformations and its effect to OpenGL is the very subject of this Cycle. So i guess it will be all fixed from the ground. I dont think fixing an OpenGL is good option when its deformation not optimized. I guess there is a certain reason for leaving those deformations at the end of this cycle , therefore their OpenGL responses..

yes i have problem with this type of Hopeless threads on the land of HOPE.

best

HanJobSoSlow
05-07-2007, 10:28 AM
You think its great....NICE. I`m happy for you.

:I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne

I`m a user whos got problems - Sweep us under the carpet if you want.

MODERATOR: Enough. inappropriate language deleted.

:I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne

If you cant take complaints I`d stay out this part of the forum!! :D :D :D

HanJobSoSlow
05-07-2007, 10:42 AM
dear toonafish

hanj, hey man i cant offer my silly help to you, cuz i guess you are genius enough to not to choose other GL modes right under that panel.

yes i have problem with this type of Hopeless threads on the land of HOPE.

best

My problem was you didnt offer help.

I hope this is the land of HELP not HOPE. Heres Hoping.

tyrot
05-07-2007, 11:30 AM
dear han

although you are trying to make it personal..I will greatly help you with that issue.

But first i must look for your posts, what did you do personally for Better Lightwave except whining.

For your info, we have chosen "neverko" for that job for another 4 years. Why?
he is really working hard for better lightwave, HE is intelligent enough to choose more options in that OpenGL panel. He is really driving his tools in his extremes and when he complains he Doesnt establish "Losing hope" sentences.

So if you can be like him, send him a PM and ask his help, he will teach you HOW to Complain. When he complains he makes that so good that he has his own CC release (we call it NEVERKO release :) )

Because there is a border between Complaining and Whining..And even short-long-all size dicks know the difference...

best

lion111
05-07-2007, 11:31 AM
We need more speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

theo
05-07-2007, 11:32 AM
You think its great....NICE. I`m happy for you.

:I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne

I`m a user whos got problems - Sweep us under the carpet if you want.

[inappropriate comments removed]

:I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne :I_Love_Ne

If you cant take complaints I`d stay out this part of the forum!! :D :D :D

If you're new here you might want to tone it down a bit. Intelligent people tend not to respond well to dripping sarcasm.

lion111
05-07-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by HanJobSoSlow
You think its great....NICE. I`m happy for you.



I`m a user whos got problems - Sweep us under the carpet if you want.

Newteks problems dont make your dick any shorter so why get so uptight about complaints?



If you cant take complaints I`d stay out this part of the forum!!






speed (may be the dark side) will come.................. trust me and hey calm down
tomorrow is a other day
hey man its a total new reborn its a baby
give them some time!!!!!!!!!!
Problems yes,............. but hey
greetings:D

Matt
05-07-2007, 01:32 PM
:rolleyes:

toonafish
05-07-2007, 03:36 PM
:rolleyes:

:stumped:

HanJobSoSlow
05-07-2007, 04:37 PM
You guys do realise your complaining about people complaining in an area of a forum designed to help people answer their LIGHTWAVE problems?

And I was told some people on this forum were touchy about LW.

Its just software man...

Chris S. (Fez)
05-07-2007, 04:55 PM
Lightwave's openGL in both Modeler and Layout have a looooong way to go.

Ztreem
05-08-2007, 03:37 AM
Lightwave's openGL in both Modeler and Layout have a looooong way to go.

:agree: But I also think some of the slowness in OpenGL is in fact other things like the gemetry engine that makes it slow not the OpenGL, So when they have fixed the whole geometry engine I think we will see much more speed in OpenGL as well, just what I think.

HanJobSoSlow
05-08-2007, 03:53 AM
Fingers crossed thats the case

faulknermano
05-08-2007, 05:13 AM
it's all relative. go and visit Maya - you'll find that on flat shaded, it's faster than modeler or layout. but when you turn on hardware textures, my system crawls, compared to Layout. there's more going on under the hood, and it's hard to pinpoint what it is.

Chuck
05-08-2007, 09:08 AM
You guys do realise your complaining about people complaining in an area of a forum designed to help people answer their LIGHTWAVE problems?

And I was told some people on this forum were touchy about LW.

Its just software man...

Actually, the thread was in a section of the forum designed for positive discussions of the new features of v9.2 between folks who have worked with v9.2 and those who haven't. It has now been moved to the General Support area, which is a place where folks with problems ask for assistance.

Any of you who have any complaint about someone else's thread title, posts or comments here - just report the post to a moderator by using the little "report post" button on each post.

As for your chosen username - it's completely inappropriate and I'll discuss that with the other moderators and we'll address the matter as appropriate.

Chris S. (Fez)
05-08-2007, 10:34 AM
I think Ztreem is right on the money.

The OpenGL is speedy enough (poly drawing/display), it's the geometry transformation engine that currently needs a massive tune-up.



I agree.

You know, all those fancypants openGL displays are super cool and all, but for previewing I use Fprime.

Accordingly, for now I would not mind if Newtek just concentrated on making static/deforming, smooth-shaded subds insanely fast in both Layout and Modeler.