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View Full Version : NewTek gets no mention for the beginning of Non-linear editing



DiscreetFX
04-29-2007, 09:15 PM
I was sad to see that NewTek got no mention for the beginning of NLEing on Wikipedia.

:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_video_editing

The Flyer was right thee with Avid and Media 100 back in the early 1990's but gets no airtime in this article that must be written by Mac guys.

Since it is Wikipedia this can be corrected.

:beerchug:

Exception
04-29-2007, 09:26 PM
So... correct it :)

prospector
04-29-2007, 10:25 PM
Is now

Exception
04-29-2007, 10:38 PM
Doesn't show up for me :(

prospector
04-29-2007, 11:00 PM
hmmm, ended up under the discussion page.

guess I gotta learn Wiki works :D

Titus
04-30-2007, 12:54 AM
Look again :thumbsup:.

DogBoy
04-30-2007, 02:04 AM
can't see any mention of Newtek or Flyer.

kopperdrake
04-30-2007, 02:57 AM
Yep - nothing showing up here either :/

DogBoy
04-30-2007, 05:09 AM
Looks like Wikipedias' famed partiality has kicked in again ;)

Bog
04-30-2007, 06:00 AM
*rubs bridge of nose*

Am I reading this right? Prospector corrected the Wiki entry to show NewTek's presence in the NLE timeline, and someone else took the entry out again?

prospector
04-30-2007, 06:14 AM
Those Mac Bast*r*s

I see it when ya click on edit but not showing up on main page.
Hmmm
Those Mac Bast*r*s !!!!!

Nope it was Titus's stuff, mine is still in the discussion

Those Mac and AVID Bast*rds

Lightwolf
04-30-2007, 06:15 AM
*rubs bridge of nose*

Am I reading this right? Prospector corrected the Wiki entry to show NewTek's presence in the NLE timeline, and someone else took the entry out again?
No, it just takes a bit of time for new edits to show up.
However, the current ones aren't correct either, the Toaster wasn't an NE until the Flyer came along. And there should then also be a mention of the VLab Motion (which I edited on in '92). Plus tons others I suppose.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
04-30-2007, 06:25 AM
(which I edited on in '92
Oops, 05 it was... sorry.

Cheers,
Mike

BeeVee
04-30-2007, 07:07 AM
Yeah but VLab Motion was around before 95 IIRR...

B

Lightwolf
04-30-2007, 07:47 AM
Yeah but VLab Motion was around before 95 IIRR...
B
I actually checked AmigaGuide, because I remember writing an article about it, and that was 94/95. The VLab was available earlier though.

Cheers,
Mike

BeeVee
04-30-2007, 08:01 AM
And good old Joerg Sprave - I'd never met someone who'd been to Heidelberg before and had the scars to prove it... ;)

B

SBowie
04-30-2007, 08:20 AM
I had the second VLM in Canada. Aahh, Reverse Polish Notation, where have you gone? :)

Titus
04-30-2007, 08:42 AM
*rubs bridge of nose*

Am I reading this right? Prospector corrected the Wiki entry to show NewTek's presence in the NLE timeline, and someone else took the entry out again?

Nope, I just copy/pasted a paragraph of the Video Toaster entry into the NLE section. If anyone finds this not accurate or needs information, contribute.

Titus
04-30-2007, 08:54 AM
I just added information of the Flyer. Again, a copy/paste from the VT entry.

cholo
04-30-2007, 07:27 PM
That's because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are the real deal and everyone else are just a bunch of copycats and wannabes ;)

KSTAR
05-01-2007, 12:41 AM
I just added information of the Flyer. Again, a copy/paste from the VT entry.

Cool the truth shall set them free. :)

I had totally forgot about some of the history around the Flyer. I was never fortunate enough to own a flyer back then. I did have a Toaster and a Par/Sunrize16 setup Arex kicked serious butt!

I still do have all of my Amiga and Toaster/Newtek themed magazines from that time though.

Still my favorite era of computing We did so much with so little relatively speaking :thumbsup:

Steamthrower
05-01-2007, 05:12 AM
I've had a lot of experience with Wikipedia, usually bad. For example, I once started an article on a small town nearby. Just some standard notes and data.

Holy uproar, you would have thought it was an article on the Holocaust. People called it a farce because ''no one would ever look it up''. In the end some moderator who was tired if writing the article on Muscular Distrophy wiped it out or something.

The moral of this story is, even if you manage to get the info on Wikipedia, it doesn't mean it'll stay there.

This Mac video nerd will see it and think: ''Video Flyer? My sainted aunt, what in the world is that? Amiga? Is that an OPERATING SYSTEM? Gotta add something about the Apple II.''

kopperdrake
05-01-2007, 05:53 AM
Well it's there now :thumbsup:

robewil
05-01-2007, 09:06 AM
I hate to burst some bubbles here, but Newtek was actually late in the game regarding non-linear editing. The Wiki page makes it look like the Flyer came shortly after the Toaster. In fact, the Flyer was first announced at NAB 1994. I know this because I was there. The Flyer began shipping in January 1995. At this time, many companies already had their first-generation non-linear editing systems out. There were even a couple out for the Amiga already. The Flyer did offer real-time effects and better quality in 1995, but by no means was it a pioneering product.

Cageman
05-01-2007, 09:18 AM
I hate to burst some bubbles here, but Newtek was actually late in the game regarding non-linear editing. The Wiki page makes it look like the Flyer came shortly after the Toaster. In fact, the Flyer was first announced at NAB 1994. I know this because I was there. The Flyer began shipping in January 1995. At this time, many companies already had their first-generation non-linear editing systems out. There were even a couple out for the Amiga already. The Flyer did offer real-time effects and better quality in 1995, but by no means was it a pioneering product.

NewTek wasn't first, but they were cheap in comparsion and offered the same capabilities as the "big boys". Price is the "innovation" here, not the tech itself. People seem to forget how expensive NLE-systems were on other platforms.

robewil
05-01-2007, 09:29 AM
There were a few that competed with it price-wise. One was Radius' Videovision Studio for the Macintosh, which I worked with quite a bit. A VideoVision system was similarly priced with a Toaster/Flyer system. I preferred the Toaster/Flyer in just about every way, though.

I even showed the Flyer system to a Radius rep. He couldn't believe that I could put two video clips up, trim them, place dissolves, and overlay text without rendering. Essentially, do something in 1 minute that would have taken the VideoVision 15, and in better quality.

tonyvdb
05-01-2007, 09:46 AM
I think robewil sums it up fairly clearly.

The Flyer was defiantly ahead of its time when it came to speed and price. You could get a complete Flyer system with Amiga 4000 for less than $8000 in 1995.

Even today the Flyer is still a great cost effective system although the PC VT4 is far better most video editing software still needs to render the final product and is not real time. For the Amiga to do this real time is still an amazing feet given it only has 2 mb of graphics ram and 16 mb of system ram..

tonyvdb
05-01-2007, 09:56 AM
I forgot to add that (due to the silly 5 min. edit post limit) I will add this here that there are no other computing platforms from the early 90's that still have such a large user base. The Amiga can still be sold for hundreds of $$ with or without a flyer system included. Try and sell a Mac or PC from that time frame today:cool: NOT

Titus
05-01-2007, 10:13 AM
I hate to burst some bubbles here, but Newtek was actually late in the game regarding non-linear editing. The Wiki page makes it look like the Flyer came shortly after the Toaster. In fact, the Flyer was first announced at NAB 1994. I know this because I was there. The Flyer began shipping in January 1995. At this time, many companies already had their first-generation non-linear editing systems out. There were even a couple out for the Amiga already. The Flyer did offer real-time effects and better quality in 1995, but by no means was it a pioneering product.

Well, I've done my part. It's time for others to follow with changes.

dsol
05-01-2007, 11:13 AM
Anybody remember the Draco? it was a (partially) Amiga-compatible turnkey NLE system. I remember it being pretty frickkin sweet in the day - and ridiculously fast/high quality compared to all other systems of the day.

Aha - here it is: http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/draco.html

tonyvdb
05-01-2007, 12:19 PM
The only issue is that it had no custom Amiga chipset so it would not run any of the Amiga games.

cholo
05-01-2007, 04:07 PM
I had a vlab motion long before the flyer was available.

DiscreetFX
05-01-2007, 05:38 PM
Thanx guys, the Wiki page looks much better now.

:)

Dave Jerrard
05-01-2007, 10:17 PM
Didn't anyone use ShowMaker? My first 3D job was creating content for the ShowMake demo, which was essentially a non-linear editor, and this was in 1990. It could control all kinds of video devices through their RS232 ports, and my first 24bit animations were stored on a Panasonic laserdisc recorder, which SHowmaker would control, in addition to the SuperGen, which would place realtime text displayed on the Amiga over the video. At the same time, ShowMaker was controlling a Roland sampler for playing back music composed on Bars & Pipes, and sound effects. It could also control another Amiga, which we used for playing back other animations through a DCTV. When the Toaster came out, it really added a lot of tools to the mix, so we had 2 A2000s, a toaster, a SuperGen, DCTV, laserdisc playback and a Roland sampler, all playing back an AV production that you could record to tape.

He Who Remembers How Well This Didn't Work When The Cables Weren't All Plugged In.

Cageman
05-01-2007, 10:18 PM
Anybody remember the Draco? it was a (partially) Amiga-compatible turnkey NLE system. I remember it being pretty frickkin sweet in the day - and ridiculously fast/high quality compared to all other systems of the day.

Aha - here it is: http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/draco.html

Hehe... Írebro Videoreklam in Sweden used to sell those. I saw one of the Dracos at an Amiga-event in 1996 I think it was. One of the early versions that only got a 68040 processor. Not very fast, because it had to render everything if I remember correctly. That was the reason behind the DEC-Alpha co-processor card, but it was never produced because MacroSystems moved on and developed Casablanca (http://www.macrosystem.de/e/products.html) instead.

kopperdrake
05-02-2007, 03:46 AM
Anybody remember the Draco?

Oh I'd forgotten about that!! Wasn't there a company in the UK selling them as uber high-end Lightwave boxes? I vaguely remember dribbling over them but were well out of our price range back then, had to make do with our lowly 4000 :D

dsol
05-02-2007, 04:29 AM
yeah - I seem to remember that LW was one of the main compatible apps on it (this was before it was ported to PC, Alpha, MIPS etc.). Though 68040 based, it was waaaaayyy faster than the '040 A4000 since it wasn't saddled with that machine's awful mangled memory bus.

Bog
05-02-2007, 05:18 AM
Didn't anyone use ShowMaker?

No, Dave. It was just you. Only you.