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View Full Version : I would like to see an official comment of Newtek about IK Booster in 9.2



Dirk
04-27-2007, 10:09 AM
Ok, I'M ANGRY.

IK Bind is *BROKEN*. A single fixed node prevents the the root object from moving at all! Tested with several rigs, not only my own, but, for example, the Animechick, Hulk and Zombie from the content folder. And what a strange bug that is: when a node is fixed and the numerical values are used to rotate the root object, the behavior of the root object is absolutly normal - it even moves to compensate for the rotation, so the fixed node stays fixed in world space.

Isn't it strange that nobody noticed that? IK Bind is on by default!

When IK Bind is turned off, fixed nodes jitter when moving the root object! IK Booster in 9.2 is FAR from being as smooth as it was in 9.0.

It seems those changes to IK Booster where introduced either very late in the beta process, or not at all!

It would be really nice to see an official comment by Newtek on this issue. Note: If it ain't broken, don't fix it!

omeone
04-27-2007, 11:10 AM
If it ain't broken, don't fix it! indeed :)

well I can say it only appeared very very late in the day, cos it didn't appear in any of the betas I used

I suspect this isn't anything coming from alteration to IKB though, more a side-effect of something else, like display graphics.

Celshader
04-27-2007, 02:23 PM
Ok, I'M ANGRY.

IK Bind is *BROKEN*. A single fixed node prevents the the root object from moving at all! Tested with several rigs, not only my own, but, for example, the Animechick, Hulk and Zombie from the content folder. And what a strange bug that is: when a node is fixed and the numerical values are used to rotate the root object, the behavior of the root object is absolutly normal - it even moves to compensate for the rotation, so the fixed node stays fixed in world space.

If anyone out there can actually prove that this bug exists, drop a note to [email protected] and tell them how they, too, can see this bug for themselves. Tell them to load up Animechick and give them exact steps for duplicating this bug.

I have not yet taken the time to learn IKB, so I wouldn't know what to report. :(

omeone
04-27-2007, 02:36 PM
oh it's pretty obvious, you can't do anything useful with IKB really. jayroth has already acknowledged the bug in the beta forum, saying it'll be looked at for a maintainance release.

It doesn't mess up IKB scenes, so animations can be prepared in any other version from [8] up and still rendered in 9.2

prospector
04-27-2007, 03:00 PM
easy
Make a null
add a bone and 2 child bones
put a fix anywhere on chain other than first bone
move first bone anywhere....NOT

change fix to endIk and basebone moves as normal


If I am thinking this thru right, a fix on any other than basebone just fixes that joint relationship, yet allows full motion of IK chain?

So if this was a snake and you locked off one of the neck bones so it's head was always up, I *should* still be able to move basebone thereby moving all of snake.

Is that right?

calilifestyle
04-27-2007, 04:02 PM
How about just fix the probelm, and not worrier about everone trying to figure out a work around its cool if your works around works but not everone on comes to the forums

Dirk
04-27-2007, 04:42 PM
oh it's pretty obvious, you can't do anything useful with IKB really. jayroth has already acknowledged the bug in the beta forum, saying it'll be looked at for a maintainance release.

That's good to hear. Hope it doesn't take too long.



If I am thinking this thru right, a fix on any other than basebone just fixes that joint relationship, yet allows full motion of IK chain?

In a Null with a 3 bone chain, a fix on any bone node except the node of the first bone will prevent the Null (the root object) from moving. It still works the other way round, for example, You can fix the first bone and move the other bones.

The function of IK Bind should be like this (for example): if IK Bind is on, and the tip of the left foot is fixed, and you pull the node of the right hand upwards, the whole character will stretch (when there are no IK stops between the foot and the hand), but You will not be able to move the fixed foot node in world space. So the character will stretch as far as the rig allows, then stop.

Without IK Bind, the character will stretch, too, but You will be able to "break" the fixing of the foot node. That's bad, since as soon as You release the right hand, IK Booster will create keyframes for the bones, even if they are not where they should be.

Dodgy
04-30-2007, 03:54 AM
If you turn IK bind off, you can move it as normally, and providing you don't have any processor eating processes running, the fixed bones should stay in the right place. Just a work around till they get this fixed.

omeone
04-30-2007, 05:08 AM
I dunno Dodgy... In my workflow (http://ikboost.com/learn/animation-workflow-for-lightwave-3d-using-ik-boost/), I would almost never turn it off, because it brings unreliability. I always think of those yellow elastic bands (that only appear with IK bind off) as warnings that contact points will not match from one Pose to the next.
Your workflow is probably different, but for me IK Bind is there for a reason and it's a setting I always use.

Dodgy
04-30-2007, 06:03 AM
Well I only posited it as a work around, hopefully this will be fixed very shortly :) I found I only got rubber bands when something else was eating cycles, it could be different on your machine :P

omeone
04-30-2007, 06:27 AM
I found I only got rubber bands when something else was eating cycles, it could be different on your machine :P

quite interesting... can't get my machine tuned to work that way, but every bit of info like that helps to get a better feel for IKB :)

Castius
04-30-2007, 09:22 AM
IK binds function is to prevent you from moveing the rig beyond the limits of a fixed item/items. So when you turn IK Bind off it simply up to the animator to not extend the rig beyond that limit. The yellow lines show you when you have extended the rig to far.

I'm sure they will take care of this bug.

omeone
04-30-2007, 09:35 AM
With IK bind off, you can still get minor movements and elastic bands on a fixed controller, even before the rig has reached full extension, at least on my machine.

Dirk
04-30-2007, 06:49 PM
With IK bind off, you can still get minor movements and elastic bands on a fixed controller, even before the rig has reached full extension, at least on my machine.

The same here.

And it's a difference if a fixed controller was moved because of a movement of the root object or another controller. When the root obejct was moved, the elastic band will move a fixed controller back into it's place (well, more or less) as long as the mouse button is still pushed and the root object is moved back. But if a fixed controller is moved because of the movement of another controller, this doesn't work. That's the same as in 9.0, but in 9.0, IK Bind works....

Also, fixed controllers jitter when the the root object is moved, even if the rig is far from being extended. This is very annoying; the root object has to be moved back a small amount, then the fixed controllers will snap back into their positions.

I'll work with 9.0 and will use 9.2 only for rendering.

I really would like to know how this bug could sneak into 9.2 that late in the beta. There are changes in IKB in 9.2: for example, if a controller is moved fast (while editing), IKB in 9.2 shows lines that point from the controllers into the direction of the movement. IKB in 9.0 doesn't do that. And IKB in 9.2 is able to update the rig faster - an effect which can be noticed even if deformations are turned of, so it's very likely because of changes in IKB.

Hope IK Bind gets fixed soon.

calilifestyle
05-02-2007, 02:42 AM
/bump

Dirk
05-02-2007, 03:12 AM
Hmm, seems to me IKB in 9.2 is significantly faster than in 9.0, can somebody confirm this?

Hope the Devs can retain that speed increase when fixing IK Bind and the strange controller jitter...

Dodgy
06-06-2007, 03:44 PM
This seems to be fixed nowin pr1b4. I don't know about the speed up :)