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kopperdrake
04-25-2007, 02:47 PM
The 'Mac' arrives tomorrow - I've stashed nibbles and beer next to the sofa as I don't plan on sleeping much tonight ;)

First - the ugly question - am I right in thinking that if I want to install Windows it's best to make a separate partition? How do I do that? Or is it best to just add another hard-drive instead?

Secondly, I plan on installing the beta UB version 9.2 - no point beating around the bush with 9.0 now.

My question is, just how much RAM will the different versions of LW use? I have 5Gb in the box - I assume that an install of XP Pro under Bootcamp will have the same 2Gb limitiation that XP always has? Would Vista be any different?

I have no idea what the limitations of the Mac are - will any version on the Mac make use of the 5Gb - either normal Mac (PPC?) or the UB version. Still getting to grips with the terminology so no slapping me for mistakes :D At the end of the day I'd like LW on the Mac under OSX and some form of Windows, with FPrime on both too. I have some software tied to the PC for now, hence some projects will be done using Bootcamp.

BazC
04-25-2007, 03:09 PM
I haven't installed Windows yet but I think this is how it works.

Bootcamp lets you set everything up for Windows including creating a partition, sounds fairly painless! I believe it has to be on the boot volume, I'm not absolutely sure though. Make sure your Windows installation is with SP2 all on one disk, it won't work if it's on 2 apparently. That's XP I don't know about Vista.

In OSX all apps can access 4gigs of RAM, it's the same for all versions of Lightwave, that isn't going to change until we're fully 64bit which will probably be in the Autumn now.

gkbaxter
04-25-2007, 03:19 PM
BazC is right; I have installed Windows XP SP2 on two Intel Macs, using Bootcamp. Bootcamp will walk you through the process; all you really have to decide is the size of the partition (on your boot disk) to allocate to Windows. BTW, Windows runs nicely on the Macs....

kopperdrake
04-25-2007, 03:34 PM
Oh - I guess I'll have a look through my Windows disks - so SP2 has to be on the same disk as the original Windows install disk?

gkbaxter
04-25-2007, 03:47 PM
That's correct; SP2 included on same disk.
You end up with a partition on your Mac desktop called 'Untitled', which is the Windows partition created by Bootcamp.
BTW, Bootcamp currently requires Windows to be installed on the start-up disk, but this may not be the case when the final version ships with Leopard.

kopperdrake
04-25-2007, 03:58 PM
Oh thanks for that :D I can see a couple of wasted days ahead...must make sure WoW works too ;)

gkbaxter
04-25-2007, 04:01 PM
There's a few posts on Apples' Discussion Forums about WoW alledgedly cooking graphics cards in MacPros...so just be aware of this please

kopperdrake
04-25-2007, 05:00 PM
eek! That's scared me :/

amigo
04-25-2007, 05:24 PM
I would keep things simple and put another hdd in, storage is cheap nowdays :)
This is also handy if you need to send your Mac for repairs or whatever, it will go in an original configuration.
And, if you need to re-install OS X for whatever reason, I am not sure how will that affect your Windows and or BootCamp when both are running off of the same hdd.

Weepul
04-25-2007, 06:23 PM
In OSX all apps can access 4gigs of RAM, it's the same for all versions of Lightwave, that isn't going to change until we're fully 64bit which will probably be in the Autumn now.
Really? I get out-of-memory errors when LW hits around 2GB usage. Why's that?

Chilton
04-25-2007, 06:42 PM
It depends on system resource usage.

-Chilton

Animapper
04-25-2007, 08:01 PM
The 'Mac' arrives tomorrow - I've stashed nibbles and beer next to the sofa as I don't plan on sleeping much tonight ;)

First - the ugly question - am I right in thinking that if I want to install Windows it's best to make a separate partition? How do I do that? Or is it best to just add another hard-drive instead?

Secondly, I plan on installing the beta UB version 9.2 - no point beating around the bush with 9.0 now.

My question is, just how much RAM will the different versions of LW use? I have 5Gb in the box - I assume that an install of XP Pro under Bootcamp will have the same 2Gb limitiation that XP always has? Would Vista be any different?

I have no idea what the limitations of the Mac are - will any version on the Mac make use of the 5Gb - either normal Mac (PPC?) or the UB version. Still getting to grips with the terminology so no slapping me for mistakes :D At the end of the day I'd like LW on the Mac under OSX and some form of Windows, with FPrime on both too. I have some software tied to the PC for now, hence some projects will be done using Bootcamp.

Congrats on the new box. You'll love it. I've had the dual 2.66 for 8 months now and it rocks. It runs Windows about 90% of the time. Too many plugins and CAD and GIS stuff that won't run on the Mac.

I just returned from NAB and had some time with a few Apple developers. Remember that bootcamp is completely unsupported for professional work. It works fine for me now but - when Leopard ships, I wouldn't be surprised if we have to re-install everything. It's happened once before to me and it wasn't fun. 2 days down - it's easy to forget how much we actually stuff into these boxes, huh?

I too am looking forward to UB, lwcad and fprime all flying under os-x. Perhaps then I'll be able to boot 60% of the time natively!

The latest version of bootcamp allows you to install multiple OS's on a secondary drive. I put a 300 gig drive in just for Windows. Keep it clear of the mac os.

Have fun,

Scazzino
04-25-2007, 08:36 PM
Welcome aboard! :beerchug:

The 8 core Mac Pro simply screams. :thumbsup:

I hope you ordered the optional seat belt... ;)

Haven1000
04-26-2007, 02:06 AM
Here's a link to Apple's Bootcamp installation guide (http://images.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/pdf/Boot_Camp_Beta_Setup_Guide_v1.2.pdf)


Oh - I guess I'll have a look through my Windows disks - so SP2 has to be on the same disk as the original Windows install disk?

If you don't have a SP2 installation disk you can slipstream (http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsXP/winxp-sp2-bootcd.html) the SP2 standalone download with your original XP disk to make a boot-able SP2 installation disk

kopperdrake
04-26-2007, 03:04 AM
Your speed results were what swung it for me Scazz :thumbsup: I thought the seatbelt came as standard though - I guess Duck Tape will have to suffice 8~

I'll grab another hard drive then if it can handle it - I hated the thought of mixing stuff anyway - feels unclean ;) Are they standard SATA drives inside? Does Bootcamp also format it? I'm guessing FAT 32 is better for compatibility, from reading previous threads?


I have the choice of installing either XP Pro (I found a disk that also has SP2 on it) or Windows Vista Upgrade Business (whatever that is) - has anyone tried installing Vista on their Mac?

I assume that FPrime 3 and LWCAD2 aren't UB compatible yet? Does that mean the versions I have (latest for standard 32Bit PC) won't run with the UB version of LW? I guess I can install the versions I have under Bootcamp no problem?

I found the articles on WoW and the graphics cards - I'll be conducting a test soon enough. As some of the people having problems seem to have it cured by a replacement GPU from Apple I guess it's best to get it sorted now rather than 6 months down the line. Sounds like the game may be pushing the cards near to their threshold, running the weaker build cards over the edge. I'll be running a couple of monitors so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Agh - in 6 months I'll have it all down pat and laugh at these nubbish questions...for now I wallow blissfully in ignorance :D

kopperdrake
04-26-2007, 03:09 AM
To answer one of my own questions, it's 32bit Windows only and no, the Vista Business Upgrade disk will not work - must be the full version on disk. So looks like good old Windows XP Pro will be installed :)

kfinla
04-26-2007, 07:04 AM
Can someone point me to the speed results Scazzino (or anyone) did with the 8-core MP?

kopperdrake
04-26-2007, 08:48 AM
Here you go :)

First my baseline tests on the G5 with 2 threads
LW 9.0: 15m 21s (933 seconds)
LW 9.2 CFM: 15m 47s (948 seconds)
LW 9.2 UB: 15m 7s (908 seconds)

Then on the 8 core 3GHz Mac Pro with 8 threads
LW 9.0 under Rosetta translation: 3m 21s (201 seconds)
LW 9.2 CFM under Rosetta translation: 2m 47s (167 seconds)
LW 9.2 UB native speed: 1m 17s (78 seconds)

The full thread is in the Mac beta section - not sure if I'm allowed to post it here yet :)

kfinla
04-26-2007, 09:18 AM
thanks.. just a question what were the specs on the G5?.. 2.7, 2.0 single core dual proc?

and 2nd; shouldn't both the 2 proc G5 and the 8 proc MP have LW rendering with 8 threads?

I've always used 8 threads with my DP G4 because i remember years ago when i first got this computer I read you can have more threads than processors.. you will get faster renders.. just for somethings like hypervoxels.. which were not multi-threaded u wanted to turn it down for stability, but i never did :)

Chilton
04-26-2007, 10:00 AM
Hi Ken,

I think the best render speed you get is with one thread per processor. But I haven't done any benchmarks regarding this lately, so YMMV.

-Chilton

Scazzino
04-26-2007, 10:27 AM
thanks.. just a question what were the specs on the G5?.. 2.7, 2.0 single core dual proc?

It was my trusty OLD G5... It was the high end of the very first G5 batch...
Power Mac Dual Processor 2GHz G5, 4GB RAM, ATI 9800 Pro

I'm moving from that old G5 to the new 8-core... As you can see, I like to get a few years out of my investments... ;)

The 8-core LW UB benchmarks are in the Open Beta forum, I'm not sure if it's OK to post them here or not, so your best bet is to join that forum which all LW9 users can... I'll post more benchmarks as soon as I get a chance... I've been tied up on a rush project for a while now...

:beerchug:

kfinla
04-26-2007, 01:21 PM
Hi Ken,

I think the best render speed you get is with one thread per processor. But I haven't done any benchmarks regarding this lately, so YMMV.

-Chilton

Cool, i'll have to investigate this too... i know this 8 threads for 2 procs+ has been in my head from discussion back in the LW 6, or 7 days and its stuck with me..

toby
04-26-2007, 03:02 PM
thanks.. just a question what were the specs on the G5?.. 2.7, 2.0 single core dual proc?

and 2nd; shouldn't both the 2 proc G5 and the 8 proc MP have LW rendering with 8 threads?

I've always used 8 threads with my DP G4 because i remember years ago when i first got this computer I read you can have more threads than processors.. you will get faster renders.. just for somethings like hypervoxels.. which were not multi-threaded u wanted to turn it down for stability, but i never did :)
8 threads on a dual is very often the fastest render with the Classic camera, because once a thread-segment is finished, the proc that was rendering it sits idle. (it usually renders faster even when there's no procs that go idle, maybe it's because you're making sure the procs are always busy?) The Perspective camera divides the image dynamically - when one segment is finished, another segment gets divided - so it's most likely fastest to use 1 thread per proc.

I imagine that an 8 core would render faster with the new 16 thread setting using the classic camera, I actually squeezed some extra rendertime on my dual G5 by rendering two copies of LW, each set to 8 threads.

Animapper
04-26-2007, 03:07 PM
Don't go down the vista road until leopard is released and it fully supports it. I tried to make it work and ended up hosing the system.

kopperdrake
04-26-2007, 06:33 PM
Cheers Neverko - I may have a copy of XP Pro 64 hanging around - I subscribe to the MS Action Pack so never quite sure what's in all the packs they send through. Sounds like it could be the way to go in the short term though :)

The WoW issue is only with the ati X1900 as far as I can tell - and it's cropping up with some other games too. Some reckon that maybe there's a routine being called that's looping, either at the GPU or OS end, but I know nothing about this sort of thing so I'll install it at the weekend and see how this fares from a practical approach.

So far it's sat in the network nicely, got it seeing all the main directories and Synergy is running nicely on it :) Next to go on is the UB beta of LW 9.2 until a hard drive comes through for the Windows install...I have a couple of spare SATA drives but it seems things have changed since I last built a system - new fangled dinky connectors now!

BazC
04-27-2007, 02:14 AM
Don't go down the vista road until leopard is released and it fully supports it. I tried to make it work and ended up hosing the system.

Apple have added support for Vista 32 bit.

"Changes in Boot Camp 1.2 beta

Boot Camp 1.2 beta contains several updates and is intended for all new and previous Boot Camp beta users.

Boot Camp 1.2 beta includes:

* Support for Windows Vista (32-bit)"

Bootcamp page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/)