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tektonik
03-30-2007, 10:07 AM
can newtek address the netrendering issues in LW ?

it is NOT NORMAL to have to buy a external rendercontroller to make LW work !!!
especially whan they cost near 400$ for 20 something nodes...

we need working netrendering out of the box FINAL! and to be at par with others... auto split-frame support across the network (one button operation!!!)

would have liked 9.2 to address this already !!!

prospector
03-30-2007, 10:55 AM
Why are you buying anything?
I network render all the time and have used nothing that does not come with LW 'out of the box', cept render machines. And you can run 999 of them for free.

Matt
03-30-2007, 11:22 AM
It is a pain to set up when you're new to it, but it's actually straight forward when it 'clicks', LW is certainly better than other packages for render node licences.

tektonik
03-30-2007, 02:05 PM
LW is certainly better than other packages for render node licences.

oooh no way... it is cheaper but not better!

we need some king of one button bucket rendering like in vray/max where included in your "F9" it uses up to 10 cpus to calculate 1 frame across the network or you can network render animations frame by frame 1 frame per cpu like in LW

split frame rendering isn't standard nor free with LW
netrendering is free if you don't count the many billable hours to set it up:)

i used lightnet (justice build v4) and i am now preparing for a new animation (been a long time i mostly do hirez stills... thank god for fprime 64bit!!!) i don't want to spend a dime on network rendering software it should be included as advertized!

a+

nthused
03-30-2007, 07:55 PM
LightWave, in my opinion does A LOT for the money (and, in fact, exceeds my expectations with the changes in 9.2). It's great that we have the option to use an external program to control render nodes and to split render! After working in Vue and having to pay for all nodes past the first 5 - LightWave is a real bargain.

I do agree with you on the need to update ScreamerNet though...it's VERY long-in-the-tooth and in need of a major re-write. Better user interface with easy to set-up controls, split rendering, remote control and status checks, and caching of GI calculations are some of the things I'd like to see.

Silkrooster
03-30-2007, 08:39 PM
I would like to see it updated to autodetect other systems running screamernet. This would help out new users instantly. I know it can be done, because bryce does it and its a low end program. I would also love to see the ability to have multiple systems rendering portions of the same frame. (Thinking stills with radiosity here)
Silk

Panikos
03-31-2007, 10:21 AM
There IS a native Netrender controller, but its for the museum.

In this field, 3rd party netrender controllers are better, I dont mind paying some extra $$$ to have the better/best solution.

However, the LWSN needs a revision.
I will come on this after LW9.2 release.

evolross
04-02-2007, 01:45 PM
I recently had to setup ScreamerNet in Lightwave 8.5 and found that it wasn't difficult at all. It only took about an hour. However, I have had some experience with batch files, config files, and network drives. But given that you are setting up a render farm, I didn't think it was too out of the question for NewTek to expect you to have a little scripting/networking experience. They can't be expected to teach you all the basics about DOS and computer networks. I thought the Lightwave manual did a good job with the instructions.

However, in learning Lightwave in the last year, using mostly the manual, I have found numerous places where the manual is outdated to previous versions of Lightwave. And when I called Tech Support about getting help with dynamically parenting an object in Layout, they said there was no feature that supported that functionality in Lightwave (and that I would have to use multiple instances of the same object and use dissolves). Then I found Parenter both on this forum and in the manual!

I do have a question about LWSN's functionality out-of-the-box, if you setup a 10-node render farm (for example), is there anyway to have multiple hosts use that render farm? Like having multiple animators on different machines able to send jobs ad-hoc to the render farm like a printer-queue paradigm? It appears that only one host Layout instance (machine) can send jobs to an LWSN render farm. I doesn't seem like the LWSN nodes could talk to multiple Layout hosts either. Is this true?

voriax
04-02-2007, 06:47 PM
It's true SN is difficult to set up when you don't understand how it works fully, but once it's working, it works great.
In this day and age, though, the setup should really be a lot easier. It would be helpful if there was some kind of setup utility that could guide users through it. You'd still have to do all the drive-mapping and other networking stuff to make it work right, though..

SN controller leaves a LOT to be desired. It's far too limited in what you can do, and what information it gives you. You have to double, triple, and quadruple check every scene you put through it, because if you forget one setting, forget to switch on image saver (done that a couple of times in a rush), put in the wrong directory for images, wrong resolution, wrong camera settings, etc, etc, you won't know about it. SN controller doesn't tell you a thing about your scene, except how many frames it's sending out to the farm.
You can't even add multiple scenes in the one file open dialogue. Can't select which scene you remove from the queue.

evolross, in regards your question about multiple machines; No. LWSN is set to look at one directory on one computer to take it's commands from. It works by LW writing a file called Job1 (Job2 for node 2, Job3 etc), which the node reads and does whatever command is in the Job1 file. When it's carried out a command, the node writes a file back to the controller's directory called Ack1. This tells the controller that the node has done what it's told, and the controller again writes the Job1 file to give it it's next command, and so on.

The way to have multiple people using a single SN controller, and the way I used to have mine set up, could be to have a separate machine that just does the controlling. For mine, it had a ghost image of LW's content copied over to it prior to render. This would be difficult to make work with multiple people though, since they would all have to copy their data onto the one machine. It could possibly be pulled off with some fancy drive mapping, so the nodes could read off multiple individual machines, but still be controlled by the one computer.

tektonik
04-02-2007, 08:25 PM
i know how to run a screamernet network... one time i had 30 machines running
i have yet to netrender with fprime3... i will try soon

i am talking about other aspects of netrendering like :

"bucket" rendering where one image (hirez) is sent over the network where the memory use is optimal for the part of the image calculated

instant visual feedback of the buckets calculated or being calculated

you really all should have a look at vray netrendering it is a thing of beauty!

tektonik
05-16-2007, 11:16 AM
bump...

and now that 9.2 is out... anyone know of a 3d party controller that works with it ?

Lightwolf
05-16-2007, 11:25 AM
and now that 9.2 is out... anyone know of a 3d party controller that works with it ?
As long as the controller doesn't need to parse/read the scene file, any controller should do.
Spider and LightNet are free. Then there is also ButterflyNetRender and a bunch of other commercial ones.

Cheers,
Mike

tektonik
05-16-2007, 12:00 PM
these threads should go here !

http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68374

http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68507

Matt
05-16-2007, 12:42 PM
Might as well put these here too!

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24065

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56301

djlithium
05-16-2007, 02:54 PM
screamer net may not look fancy but its a hell of a lot better than some built in render controllers. I fought for months on end with Fusion5's render controller which is built into the application. What a nightmare!
Screamernet is really easy to set up frankly. But I think a lot of people get confused about the best way to set it up that causes the least amount of hassle. The best way to do it in my opinion is to have a central copy of LW with all the plug-ins you use, and a central repository with all the content you need and use for your scenes and have LWSN execute out of that central content and program directory on each machine.
The trick is you have to execute LW on each box from that same program directory and have it load and then exit (saving the config pointing to those plugs) into the local user documents and settings folder on that machine. From there its stupid easy to get it to work. At that point its all just permissions.
With Fu5 it was a nightmare with no controllable info and very little error information, unlike what you get out of the screamernet window which is very informative as to what is going on.

Now, the other thing to remember is that LWSN screamernodes are of course free. As is the controller!
You can use LW in discovery mode to work with the rendering systems and its just happy as a kat to do so.
This isn't radical stuff :)
IT's just a bit weirder for people who want push button everything.

djlithium
05-16-2007, 02:59 PM
I do have a question about LWSN's functionality out-of-the-box, if you setup a 10-node render farm (for example), is there anyway to have multiple hosts use that render farm? Like having multiple animators on different machines able to send jobs ad-hoc to the render farm like a printer-queue paradigm? It appears that only one host Layout instance (machine) can send jobs to an LWSN render farm. I doesn't seem like the LWSN nodes could talk to multiple Layout hosts either. Is this true?

The answer is you can have multiple systems send jobs to the farm, but not when the farm is busy as there is currently no cue support directly in the controller because the controller is not aware of any other controllers on the network (ie LW itself with the screamernet pannel open). If you wait until the job is completed though, yes, once those nodes are free, you can send a new job to it from any client you want. My suggestion is to use a system that is free that can be accessed through remote desktop and submit the jobs to the farm from that box. Now anyone can pull that up and load a job and fire it off to the farm and not have to have a copy of LW tied up on thier own box while a job completes.

tektonik
05-21-2007, 11:46 PM
my fantasy for network rendering has been exemplified in the modo 3.01 teaser video presentation (1h20 !!!!)

you can do that newtek i am sure :hey:

Lightwolf
05-22-2007, 01:47 AM
you can do that newtek i am sure :hey:
Sure, once they rewrite the renderer to a bucket renderer it should be an easy thing to pull off.

Cheers,
Mike