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Plakkie
03-28-2007, 07:57 AM
Ok, for the first time in my life I own Fprime, and now I would like to learn a bit about the new SSS shaders in LW9.2.
I would like to make a marble pillar (not too shiny) that has just that hint of Sub-scattering to it. (see picture) I know it can be done, I've seen it around here, but how? I tried the kappa's and omega's a bit, but until now I never got the effect I was looking for. (got a lot of weird pillars though :D ).
My question to the node-masters around here: what shaders/settings should I try? Do I need those mysterious air-polygons? Do I need special lights or radiosity to see the scattering?
Please help this node-newbee! :help:

bloontz
03-28-2007, 08:58 AM
Here is a quick attempt using simple skin. Need to turn on double sided in the surface editor. No air polys needed and no special lighting.

hrgiger
03-28-2007, 10:29 AM
That skin marble looks really cool.

bloontz
03-28-2007, 10:49 AM
I just recently upgraded to LW9 and I'm loving the node editor. I could easily just sit here playing with nodes and neglecting everything else...

Plakkie
03-28-2007, 10:53 AM
Thanks Bloontz! I tried your setup with some different colors, and it creates a nice effect. Takes a lot of time to render though... 8/ Thanks also for pointing out double sided... I was wandering how everyone got skin out of that material. :thumbsup:
It's close, but not yet the effect I'm looking for. I'm looking for the raw marble effect found in roman statues and head's. No specular and just a hint of scattering on the edges. Could I achieve that with the Skin material, or could I use a shader that renderes a bit quicker? I'll try tweaking the current setting tonight.

Ztreem
03-28-2007, 11:08 AM
I did this marble test a while ago with the sigma material, I'll see if I can dig up a node tree from this.

bloontz
03-28-2007, 11:13 AM
I think all the SSS shaders will probably require longer render times, a lot of calculations going on. If you want less specular there are specular and glossiness settings in simple skin. There are likely ways of faking SSS that are faster rendering, possibly with incidence gradients.

Intuition
03-28-2007, 12:58 PM
I did this marble test a while ago with the sigma material, I'll see if I can dig up a node tree from this.

Holy smokes. That looks great Ztreem! :thumbsup:

Does it render faster in Fprime3?

I am loving these marble SSS renders. :hey:

Plakkie
03-28-2007, 04:12 PM
Yeah, it's true: if I want SSS I must be prepared to pay a certain price.

Zstream: that comes very close to what I'm looking for (especially the foot of the statue). It would be great if you could dig up that node tree for us to see! :thumbsup:

Plakkie
03-28-2007, 04:30 PM
A quicky with Sigma shader. It has a bit more solid feeling about it, but is somehow very dark (chosen same color as before). It's hard to determain what setting changes what. Should I pick a light or a dark color for absorption? I can't tell the difference very well. Surface color must be the marble's normal color right?
I must say the results of those shaders make pretty cool renderings already. It's fun playing around with it.

Captain Obvious
03-28-2007, 04:45 PM
I did this marble test a while ago with the sigma material, I'll see if I can dig up a node tree from this.
Holy balls! :eek:

Plakkie
03-28-2007, 04:54 PM
Holy balls! :eek:

Hey! What about my shiny pillar?! :D

Ztreem is stealing the show, and for a good reason. Somehow I find realistic stone much more interesting then realistic skin.
Is that model your work too Ztreem?

Captain Obvious
03-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Hey! What about my shiny pillar?! :D
I prefer the skin shader one, but I guess it's just the matter of getting the right settings. FPrime should help.



Somehow I find realistic stone much more interesting then realistic skin.
I agree.



Is that model your work too Ztreem?
It's a scanned model.

Intuition
03-28-2007, 05:27 PM
I like the pillar. It needs an environment to really get the full effect but it looks really nice with the SSS marble. :D

Ztreem
03-29-2007, 02:17 AM
Thanks all, glad you like it. :)

Here's a node setup, it's not exactly the same because I didn't save it.

Note: Remeber that the absorption color should have very low values and the inverted color of what you want to see in the render.

Edit: in the render I used the marble procedural texture not the windywave, so that would work as well.

Plakkie
03-29-2007, 03:13 AM
Thanks also for the reactions to my shiny pillar :hey: , of course it is not finished. I have a plan for an environment; it would be my first real 'artistic' 3D image, IF I have the discipline to finish it. Working with Fprime3 makes the process a lot more fun, so maybe I'll succeed.

Ztreem, thanks so much for the node setup and the extra info. I'll try it out on the pillar and post the result.

Cheers! :thumbsup:

Plakkie
03-29-2007, 04:14 AM
Well, the first tests with Ztreem's nodetree are looking very good for what I need. It's a nice subtle effect. It's just a bit faster then skin it seems. Stil weird that the object appears pretty dark and gray, although I've given it very light (near white) colors. Has this something to do with absorption? Well, I can always turn up the lights a little of course. I'll tweak some more and see what setting has what effect. It's so subtle it's hard to make out sometimes.

Ztreem
03-29-2007, 04:19 AM
If you use imageviewerFP you can use the expose tool to brighten it up, or you could use the HDR expose filter. It's always good to do some post effects on renders to get them to look right. I did this on my marble render.

Plakkie
03-29-2007, 09:02 AM
Another test on a different pillar. It's getting closer to the look I'm going for, visible in the fotograph I made in Rome.

Dave Jerrard
03-29-2007, 12:25 PM
A quicky with Sigma shader. It has a bit more solid feeling about it, but is somehow very dark (chosen same color as before). It's hard to determain what setting changes what. Should I pick a light or a dark color for absorption? I can't tell the difference very well. Surface color must be the marble's normal color right?
I must say the results of those shaders make pretty cool renderings already. It's fun playing around with it.
It should be noted that Sigma really likes radiosity...

44586

He Who Has Had Probably Too Much Fun With Sigma.

*Pete*
03-29-2007, 03:22 PM
Another test on a different pillar. It's getting closer to the look I'm going for, visible in the fotograph I made in Rome.


Spaghetti pillars...perhaps those pillars belong to an ancient Pasta restaurant?


Rome is a great city to be in, but only for a few days, after a while the ruins and old statues loose there charm...impossible to really appreaciate every single statue as the deserve, when theres so many of them.


oh..and the render is looking good so far, do you plan to remake the photo in 3d?

Plakkie
03-29-2007, 03:51 PM
Spaghetti pillars...perhaps those pillars belong to an ancient Pasta restaurant?

Rome is a great city to be in, but only for a few days, after a while the ruins and old statues loose there charm...impossible to really appreaciate every single statue as the deserve, when theres so many of them.

oh..and the render is looking good so far, do you plan to remake the photo in 3d?

Thanks Pete! Yeah, they liked a bit of pillar variation in those days. It's original 13th century work, a cloister made by Jacopo and Pietro Vassalletto (1215-1232), which made my mouth drop in wonder. Such sereen beauty and yet so playfull in the ornamentation. I'm indeed planning to make my first serious 3D image out it. I'm still thinking about the setup and playing around with some of the techniques I'll probably need, good looking pillars being one of them. It will be my first experiment with radiosity. Not having a fast computer makes you not wanna' thouch the radiosity-button, but now with Fprime3 everything seems possible. :thumbsup:

Plakkie
03-29-2007, 03:59 PM
It should be noted that Sigma really likes radiosity...

He Who Has Had Probably Too Much Fun With Sigma.

Can One Have Too Much Fun With Sigma? I'll try to control myself. :D

To me it seemed that radiosity didnīt make that much of a difference. Hereīs a test without and with Rad., 2 bounces, 70% intensity.

Dave Jerrard
03-29-2007, 04:39 PM
Give it some global illuminations to work with. Then you'll have some shining pillars of commun-- er, radiosity! :)

By the way, that teapot was solely illuminated by the HDR image. Without the radiosity, it was pretty bland looking. I'll do up a render without radiosity later to show the comparison.



He Who Guesses He Knows What He'll Be Rendering Soon Enough.

*Pete*
03-29-2007, 05:30 PM
"Last edited by Dave Jerrard : Today at 12:39 AM. Reason: Oh, I would pack myself in excrement if it meant just staying one degree warmer. "

:screwy:

a bit off topic, but who created that teapot??...its been rendered over and over again for ages, and not only with LW.

jasonwestmas
03-29-2007, 05:37 PM
That thing!? That teapot was probably imported over from 3dstudio 1.0 ages ago. LOL!

Medi8or
03-29-2007, 05:56 PM
The Utah teapot?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_teapot

Dave Jerrard
03-29-2007, 10:08 PM
Yeah, that's my interpretation of the Utah Teapot. I used the Teapot plugin to generat it, which creates a pretty rough, solid model of the thing, and then I made a subpatched version with some thickness to it, and a removable lid, which I think looks just a bit better. It works well for testing these new nodes.


He Who Should Get Around To Getting Some Of Those Other Cool Models.

Plakkie
03-30-2007, 02:11 AM
Well, here's a quick render (don't mind the grain) using some GI. Haven't had much experience with HDRI so far.
I've got a question: when working with HDRI images (I use Image world as backdrop, don't know if there is another way), is there a way to let the backdrop be black? I hate to see the blurred and stretched HDRI image in the background. Is there a way around this?

Dave, that Utah teapot looks great, all those nice curves and reflections and scatterings. You'd be hard put to light a real teapot in such a way. Mine is to stained by the way, I like my tea 'extra strongue'.

Ztreem
03-30-2007, 02:35 AM
Load a black image as background in the compositing options.

Plakkie
03-30-2007, 01:44 PM
Yep, that works. Thanks Ztreem! I will no longer bore people with more node experiments until I have some setup for my intended image.
It's addicting to just put on all those fancy shaders and let it render away...

Dave Jerrard
03-30-2007, 02:34 PM
Dave, that Utah teapot looks great, all those nice curves and reflections and scatterings. You'd be hard put to light a real teapot in such a way. Mine is to stained by the way, I like my tea 'extra strongue'.You mean like this one?


He Who Was Messing With Material Mixing A While Back.

Plakkie
03-30-2007, 02:59 PM
You mean like this one?
He Who Was Messing With Material Mixing A While Back.

LOL. Yeah! Just like that one. Just imagine what my teeth look like. :D
And Dave: don't you start making a 'Dirty-teeth-node'!!

gerardstrada
03-30-2007, 10:51 PM
I did this marble test a while ago with the sigma material, I'll see if I can dig up a node tree from this.

WHOA! Very nice job :thumbsup:



Gerardo

Eric Walters
04-01-2007, 02:22 PM
Lovely tea pot Dave!

Eric
"He who would prefer NOT to drink Tea out of Dave's rusted Tea Pot"


You mean like this one?


He Who Was Messing With Material Mixing A While Back.

Eric Walters
04-01-2007, 02:24 PM
Thanks Ztreem!


Thanks all, glad you like it. :)

Here's a node setup, it's not exactly the same because I didn't save it.

Note: Remeber that the absorption color should have very low values and the inverted color of what you want to see in the render.

Edit: in the render I used the marble procedural texture not the windywave, so that would work as well.