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Wade
03-27-2007, 07:45 AM
LightWave Rendition for Adobe Photoshop

Realize the full potential of the new 3D capabilities in Photoshop CS3 Extended with this new render plug-in, powered by the Emmy-award winning lighting and rendering system found in LightWave 3D.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshopextended/motiondesign/

:lwicon:
Nice to see newtek wokin with Adobe folk. Not sure what it does as of yet though.

nemac4
03-27-2007, 07:58 AM
wow!,.. this could be really cool.

TSpyrison
03-27-2007, 08:06 AM
Hmmm... What does it do...

Signal to Noise
03-27-2007, 08:07 AM
...Nice to see newtek wokin with Adobe folk. ....

Yes, there's nothing like cooking up a bunch of Chinese food to get those creative juices flowing for application development! ;)


Since I already have CS2 I wasn't really going to pay much attention to CS3 but this Extended version has now really piqued my interest!

JeffrySG
03-27-2007, 08:59 AM
Hmmm... What does it do...

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshopextended/features/allfeatures/

from the adobe site...


3D compositing and texture editing

Easily render and incorporate rich 3D content into your 2D composites — even edit existing textures on 3D models directly within Photoshop Extended and immediately see the results. Photoshop Extended supports common 3D interchange formats, including 3DS, OBJ, U3D, KMZ, and COLLADA, so you can import, view, and interact with most 3D models.
Integration with Adobe Acrobat 8 software

Create, modify, and collaborate on 3D content more easily through tight integration between Photoshop CS3 Extended and Acrobat® 3D software. Convert myriad 3D CAD formats to the robust U3D interchange format, enhance models and create composites with Photoshop Extended, and easily embed 3D models created in Photoshop Extended into PDF files to distribute for review.
Enhanced Vanishing Point with 3D support

Edit in perspective on multiple surfaces — even those connected at angles other than 90 degrees — with the enhanced Vanishing Point, which also lets you measure in perspective; wrap graphics, images, and text around multiple planes; and output 2D planes as 3D models.

BazC
03-27-2007, 09:07 AM
"even edit existing textures on 3D models directly within Photoshop Extended"

Hmmm, now that's interesting, I'd heard that was a false rumour, sounds like PS really will be a 3d painter!?

JeffrySG
03-27-2007, 09:13 AM
^BazC, but doesn't it seem like you'll be able to paint on the object after the fact? not like you can paint on them and then bring it back in to the 3d app. to continue to render and adjust? I'll be curious to see it in actual use....

3dworks
03-27-2007, 09:33 AM
maybe it's the new name for PSD output in LW, LOL

markus

Andyjaggy
03-27-2007, 09:43 AM
Oh this is cool. I was convinced I was not going to upgrade to CS3 but if this plays out like it look like it might, I just might have to go for it.

BazC
03-27-2007, 10:04 AM
^BazC, but doesn't it seem like you'll be able to paint on the object after the fact? not like you can paint on them and then bring it back in to the 3d app. to continue to render and adjust? I'll be curious to see it in actual use....

Maybe. I'm looking forward to this with more curiosity than I was originally too! :D

MooseDog
03-27-2007, 10:38 AM
.....I'm looking forward to this with more curiosity than I was originally too! :D

agreed:D

i'd like to mention heaps of praise to the newtek team for a) possesing a renderer strong enough to impress the devs at adobe, and b) going out and selling/licensing it to industry leaders. adobe is riding the 'wave:lwicon: , as will it's untold numbers of users :boogiedow

Andyjaggy
03-27-2007, 10:45 AM
Yeah this is great marketing for LW.

Wade
03-27-2007, 11:10 AM
[QUOTE=Signal to Noise]Yes, there's nothing like cooking up a bunch of Chinese food to get those creative juices flowing for application development! ;)


LOL just call me Mr. Typo :twak: :boogiedow

Signal to Noise
03-27-2007, 01:13 PM
Afterthought: Is this Adobe's way of poising themselves to...ahem!..."acquire" Newtek thereby gaining a true foothold in the 3D market?

TheDynamo
03-27-2007, 01:27 PM
Sorry, it currently only comes included with the Adobe Production Studio CS 3.5 and the upgrade price is $1800 from photoshop CS2. Thank you for inquiring with Adobe.

--bzzzt!

...Sorry but my screen turned into a crystal ball there. ;)

Speedmonk42
03-27-2007, 02:10 PM
Afterthought: Is this Adobe's way of poising themselves to...ahem!..."acquire" Newtek thereby gaining a true foothold in the 3D market?


I wonder how much that would cost.

Andyjaggy
03-27-2007, 04:19 PM
I heard this rumor a little while ago actually. I think it would be a terrible thing. Sure it would make LW popular and more respected but I think we would loose LW as we know it. It would be a sad day in my opinion.

jaf
03-27-2007, 05:40 PM
Now if only Adobe would offer "special upgrade pricing to CS3 for Lightwave/CS2 owners"....

dablan
03-27-2007, 07:38 PM
You're all going to love this feature of the new PS

AbnRanger
03-27-2007, 07:52 PM
Afterthought: Is this Adobe's way of poising themselves to...ahem!..."acquire" Newtek thereby gaining a true foothold in the 3D market?
Wondering that myself. It would be nice in many ways...larger development teams...larger development budget. Larger Marketing budget. Tight integration with After Effects, and 3D Paint features in CS(4?) Extended. But the cost of LW would most certainly go up. I could live with that if it sped up the development of LW, and the cost increase wasn't a dramatic one.
If Adobe truly was interested in establishing a foothold in the 3D Animation realm, Newtek would be the prize gem. Also, think about the future marriage between Speed Edit and Premiere Pro...VT5 with AE in the pipeline

radams
03-27-2007, 09:08 PM
Wondering that myself. It would be nice in many ways...larger development teams...larger development budget. Larger Marketing budget. Tight integration with After Effects, and 3D Paint features in CS(4?) Extended. But the cost of LW would most certainly go up. I could live with that if it sped up the development of LW, and the cost increase wasn't a dramatic one.
If Adobe truly was interested in establishing a foothold in the 3D Animation realm, Newtek would be the prize gem. Also, think about the future marriage between Speed Edit and Premiere Pro...VT5 with AE in the pipeline


AbnRanger,
Wash that mouth out with soap...and slap those hands a hundred times.... ;)

Have you ever tried to deal with Adobe...or actually talk with someone who knows what they are doing...let along talk to someone in Developement...even if your a third party developer ?

I have...and Adobe...is a dead end alley...with take a number please...woops there's an error...oh well, screw you.

I've dealt with NT over many years...and you can actually get responses and most of the times answers. You can even chat with those Developing the applications and they chat back...

So NT...keep it going...:)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,

AbnRanger
03-27-2007, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=radams]AbnRanger,
Wash that mouth out with soap...and slap those hands a hundred times.... ;)

:D funny. Yeah, just wishful speculation...hoping that since all the other competitors have behemoth corporations funding their development, that Newtek would someday soon have the same advantages...but as you stated; there's a downside too.
If that were ever to occur, I'd just hope that they'd let Newtek keep doing their "Thang" and simply provide the financial, technical development and marketing support needed for Newtek to thrive even further.

Some fairy tale, huh? ;D

BTW, I agree that Newtek's no-hassle support is an often overlooked feature of LW's

Andyjaggy
03-27-2007, 09:36 PM
I agree. Do you want LW to become part of a giant corporation. I really think it would destory the LW that we have come to love. I love PS but Adobe in general bugs me.

akademus
03-27-2007, 10:11 PM
You're all going to love this feature of the new PS

This guy knows more than he is sharing (as usual):D

Andyjaggy
03-27-2007, 10:16 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Fill us in Dan. Please. Pretty please. But don't tell me it's so good that I am going to have to upgrade because I just splurged on Fprime :)

harlan
03-28-2007, 12:35 AM
But don't tell me it's so good that I am going to have to upgrade because I just splurged on Fprime :)


You don't "have" to upgrade, but you're gonna wanna.

badllarma
03-28-2007, 12:43 AM
So is this a feature of CS 3 or a feature of Lightwave? If a plugin is it a Lightwave plugin or a CS 3 plugin?

wavk
03-28-2007, 01:04 AM
NT any info?


mlon

Lightwolf
03-28-2007, 02:08 AM
...let along talk to someone in Developement...
Actually, I did. Big corp, red tape, dinosaur, glacial speed in decision making.
We'd be at the functionality of LW 6.0 now, but with fewer bugs (of LW 6.0 back then that is) and double the price tag.
Then in two years we'd get 6.5 ;)

I'd also not be using LW then ;)

Cheers,
Mike

BazC
03-28-2007, 02:37 AM
You're all going to love this feature of the new PS

That's intriguing Dan! I was talking to a PSCS3 beta tester on another site and though he thought CS3 extended was a great product he didn't seem to think the 3d features would be of much use to a 3d artist. For anyone who's interested the 3d texturing for instance apparently works like this:

You can load your textured model into a layer of a document and rotate it etc (provided it's no more than med polycount) You CANNOT paint on it!

You CAN open it's texture and paint on that and when you save it the 3d view will be updated. Hardly a Bodypaint beater! :D

The animation/compositing tools DO sound like they would be VERY useful to someone starting out in animation. I'd love to get my hands on them!

So Dans enthusiasm is presumably about the Lightwave plug, I'd love to know more about what it does!

jin choung
03-28-2007, 05:21 AM
wow...

fing FINALLY! i even wrote into adobe telling them to move their asses in getting on board the 3d model painting bandwagon... cuz EVERYBODY uses photoshop to paint their textures and NOBODY wants to relearn how to paint in ANOTHER APP!

now that they actually have the ability to load in a 3d model and see texture changes reflected in an update on the model, i'm confident that future versions will see ps finally turn into a full fledged 3d painter....

jin

JeffrySG
03-28-2007, 09:49 AM
You're all going to love this feature of the new PS

tease! ;)

any chance this will be covered in your new LW book?? :D

dablan
03-28-2007, 09:54 AM
I was referring to the use of a 3D render in PS. Not the LW plug.

It's all good folks. Just hang tight.

Nothing about it in the book - although I wish it was!

KSTAR
03-28-2007, 10:40 AM
I was referring to the use of a 3D render in PS. Not the LW plug.

It's all good folks. Just hang tight.

Dan can you comment if its any different than the LW texturing plugin for Mirage?

dablan
03-28-2007, 10:42 AM
Nope.

Alliante
03-28-2007, 12:02 PM
Now if only we can get seamless After Effects integration with our Lightwave scenes & renders :D

I'm just kicking the dirt

KSTAR
03-28-2007, 01:26 PM
Nope.

Ok now I'm really intrigued! :)

Pavlov
03-28-2007, 01:49 PM
Adobe acquiring NT is one of my weird dreams.
Uhm, one of those non-sexy i mean.
Imho it would be a super-boost for LW development... or it could turn that they transform it into something less universal, more dedicated to put it into their pipelines, who knows.

Paolo

Signal to Noise
03-28-2007, 04:02 PM
I think an NT/Adobe merger would be a good thing. As far as development resources go and exposure to an even wider graphic arts sector. However, the one thing I'd be leery about is price structures of LW if this were to happen. Adobe doesn't exactly lessen the strain put on pocketbooks, especially for the hobbyist or casual freelancer. But we are getting way ahead of ourselves on this hypothetical subject so only time will tell what the meaning is to all of this CS3 propaganda. :)

cresshead
03-28-2007, 04:24 PM
maybe that's why the renderer in 9.2 got a major overhaul even though it wasn't slated to do so...

getting the lightwave name out there alongside photoshop is a great marketing move..will drive a whole load of photoshoppers toward a lightwave purchase no doubt.

and dan's being super cryptic!....we'll have to wait n see/read what NEWTEK release as a newsletter press PR in due course

jayroth
03-28-2007, 04:31 PM
maybe that's why the renderer in 9.2 got a major overhaul even though it wasn't slated to do so...

getting the lightwave name out there alongside photoshop is a great marketing move..will drive a whole load of photoshoppers toward a lightwave purchase no doubt.

and dan's being super cryptic!....we'll have to wait n see/read what NEWTEK release as a newsletter press PR in due course

The renderer got the revision because you guys said you needed it. Simple as that.

cresshead
03-28-2007, 04:36 PM
just teasing!....mind youwe got newtek to respond the this VERY interesting thread!

anything you can share?

theo
03-28-2007, 05:21 PM
I think an NT/Adobe merger would be a good thing. As far as development resources go and exposure to an even wider graphic arts sector. However, the one thing I'd be leery about is price structures of LW if this were to happen. Adobe doesn't exactly lessen the strain put on pocketbooks, especially for the hobbyist or casual freelancer. But we are getting way ahead of ourselves on this hypothetical subject so only time will tell what the meaning is to all of this CS3 propaganda. :)

An Adobe/NT merger would be hideous!

Circumcise this thought please. I despise Adobe upgrades and their slomo development strategies. Fine products, don't get me wrong... but 150 dollar upgrades for minimal advancement along the line called time is NOT something I respect from a software developer.

Newtek has accomplished more in their advancement of LW 9 to 9.2 than Adobe could even dream of.

cresshead
03-28-2007, 05:26 PM
of course the only TANGABLE thing we have to go on so far is the text on that page...

LightWave Rendition for Adobe Photoshop

LightWave Rendition

Realize the full potential of the new 3D capabilities in Photoshop CS3 Extended with this new render plug-in, powered by the Emmy-award winning lighting and rendering system found in LightWave 3D.


without newtek or adobe expanding on this everything else is pure conjecture on people parts...

esper8
03-28-2007, 05:59 PM
If Adobe "acquire" NT will that mean an upgrade for Digipaint at last?

hrgiger
03-28-2007, 06:24 PM
The renderer got the revision because you guys said you needed it. Simple as that.

I really need a million dollars.

jayroth
03-28-2007, 06:30 PM
Me too. Get in line :)

Digital Hermit
03-28-2007, 09:03 PM
An Adobe/NT merger would be hideous! ... Newtek has accomplished more in their advancement of LW 9 to 9.2 than Adobe could even dream of.

Amen to that bro!


Long Live NewTek!

:lightwave

d1wojo
03-28-2007, 10:29 PM
This below comes form the this link, http://www.adobe.com/products/plugins/photoshop

Says that NewTek is the developer of the plug in.

3DLightWave® Rendition for Adobe Photoshop
Realize the full potential of the new 3D capabilities in Photoshop CS3 Extended with this new render plug-in, powered by the Emmy-award winning lighting and rendering system found in LightWave 3D®.

Developer: NewTek

Works with Photoshop CS3

Pavlov
03-29-2007, 02:48 AM
It's funny to see what a pure, abstract speculation can bring out... in a few days we'll have politic cohalitions and preachers ;)

Paolo

Wonderpup
03-29-2007, 03:02 AM
edited out

Signal to Noise
03-29-2007, 08:15 AM
I was referring to the use of a 3D render in PS. Not the LW plug.

It's all good folks. Just hang tight.

Nothing about it in the book - although I wish it was!

Perhaps there will be a chapter for it in Inside LightWave 10, Dan? ;)

hrgiger
03-29-2007, 08:18 AM
Perhaps there will be a chapter for it in Inside LightWave 10, Dan? ;)

Yeah. When is that coming out?

ftown
03-29-2007, 09:09 AM
Congrats to NewTek for associating LW with PSCS3, thats huge. Alot of people will be looking at LW9.2 (talk about pressure, whew!) Keep up the
good work.

meathead
03-29-2007, 10:03 AM
Will this eliminate the need for programs like Deep UV?

Prob not, now, but it is going down that path. Thats what many LWers are hoping for I would guess.

Many 3d artist use PS clearly, usually post process. But Adobe does have all the weeknesses already expressed in this thread. So many versions, which take forever to come out, have too few new features to warrant upgrades. You could argue CS2 was created just to get people into Indesign. The PS "new" features were weak.

Dealing with adobe cust support is horrible. I recently had a error, created by Acrobat creating too many temp files (over 55 thousand) that would shut down other Adobe programs. Its common I found out. PS cust support was no help, and wanted a lot of money to trouble shoot it further.

Do you want this behavior from NT? NT cust support is excellent. Really is.

That being said, there are a lot of video editors and animators out there using crappy 3d plugins to do their 3d work, like Zaxwerks for AE. They are coming around to using real 3d software, so buying something in the Adobe pipeline makes sense. I know one such animator-very talented, bought C4d, says he hasn't even opened the box yet. But eventually he will.

Digital Hermit
03-29-2007, 10:32 AM
It's funny to see what a pure, abstract speculation can bring out... in a few days we'll have politic cohalitions and preachers ;)

Paolo


I find your comment aloof and disparaging. (heh) :neener:

cresshead
03-29-2007, 11:04 AM
what's aloof?...
something you make sandwiches with or the thing that stops the rain in your house?

wavk
03-29-2007, 11:23 AM
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/aloof :)

mlon

hrgiger
03-29-2007, 12:42 PM
From the most recent Newtek newsletter concerning the plug-in for PS.

Yes, we have a new plug-in in development for Adobe’s latest release of Photoshop Creative Suite 3 Extended. We’re very excited about the prospects of helping traditional 2D artists move to a new dimension. We will have announcements and more information available shortly. For now, what you need to know is that LightWave Rendition for Adobe Photoshop is a render plug-in and no, we are not being bought by Adobe. :)

AbnRanger
03-29-2007, 01:38 PM
For now, what you need to know is that LightWave Rendition for Adobe Photoshop is a render plug-in and no, we are not being bought by Adobe. :) ...yet :D

Wonderpup
03-29-2007, 03:59 PM
adding fuel to the fire- 3d is now the only area of content creation that adobe have no foothold in- so I imagine they are currently cruising for an app.

Not sure how I'd feel about Adobe Lightwave- on the one hand more development resources and a higher profile, on the other assimilation of the worst kind. :eek:

jin choung
03-29-2007, 04:22 PM
probably the most germane way for adobe to add a 3d element to their repertoire is by means of adding 3d paint capability to photoshop.

after all, almost all texture work touches photoshop at some point and if 3d painting can be done entirely inside photoshop... i would actually say that would pretty much be the last nail in the coffin for all the 3d paint (only) apps on the market.

my guess is that the photoshop plugin is a channels plugin that will render to a PSD with proper photoshop blend styles applied to things like shadows, specular, etc....

jin

Chris S. (Fez)
03-29-2007, 09:41 PM
my guess is that the photoshop plugin is a channels plugin that will render to a PSD with proper photoshop blend styles applied to things like shadows, specular, etc....

jin

Cool. I hope so. The present PSD exporter is infuriatingly crappy.

I've been more or less a lurker on these forums, as I only rarely use Lightwave these days. But a plugin that painlessly layers render passes in PS might well win me back...

tonybliss
03-30-2007, 05:09 AM
Guys read the new newsletter..... It briefly talks about Lightwave rendition and jokingly clears up the sh1t myth about Adobe LW :D

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/newsletters/v04-n03/index.html

scroll down you can't miss it ;)

AbnRanger
03-30-2007, 08:30 AM
Guys read the new newsletter..... It briefly talks about Lightwave rendition and jokingly clears up the sh1t myth about Adobe LW :D

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/newsletters/v04-n03/index.html

scroll down you can't miss it ;)It's a cover-up I tell 'ya :D

tonybliss
03-30-2007, 08:40 AM
LOL ... conspiracy theory no 2 :D

AbnRanger
03-30-2007, 09:19 AM
Seriously though...with all the other competitors having a "Sugar Daddy" (corporation) at the helm, one can only wonder how long little 'ole Newtek can face the Giants with just 5 smooth stones and a sling, as it were.

I know there are some inevitable disadvantages, but which of those programs would be where they are today without the resources the larger corporations provide?

I seriously doubt Discreet would have worked out such a massive deal to add a $1000+ CA plugin "Character Studio," the Reactor Dynamics system, Mental Ray, and Particle Flow in Max 6 & 7, all by themselves...and without adding to Max's price. That smacks of Autodesk's heavy investment, influence and leverage.

Without Avid, would Softimage (XSI) be making as strong a comeback as they have... all by themselves? Probably not.
So, while I'm not advocating for a merger; I certainly wonder if it's inevitable that a larger corporation, sees what a gem we have in Newtek, and decides to make them an offer too hard to turn down. We've seen stranger things happen.
And I happen to think that Adobe might be just the kind of corporation in position to do so in the near future. The other brands are kinda' spoken for.

Let's hypothesize for a moment...if Adobe acquired Newtek 3 or 4 yrs ago, don't you think you'd already have Messiah as the animation system, and Fprime and Full Sasquatch, as part of the program? They also would have a bigger development team, to help re-write the code, and be further down the road in that process. Sure the price would still be between $1500-$1995...but it's only been about 18 months since the major price change.

I'm glad that LW is priced where it is, and that the team is kicking some buttocks as of late...with the resources they have. But I don't necessarily think it would be a terrible prospect if some guys in suits, from Adobe, paid them a visit...with a fat checkbook in hand. :D

Pavlov
03-30-2007, 09:31 AM
Almost agree on all.
You forgot Cinema 4D, which has been bought by Nemet...etcetc.

Paolo

AbnRanger
03-30-2007, 10:16 AM
Almost agree on all.
You forgot Cinema 4D, which has been bought by Nemet...etcetc.

PaoloYes...indeed. As a matter of fact, with Maxon being a sizable corp. itself, I wonder if they didn't ask themselves a few years ago..." What in the h:devil:ll are we doing with such a small market share in the 3D segment, and doing so competing with smaller companies like Newtek? DagNabbit...let's put on our steel-toed boots and do some fanny kicking!"

It seems to me, within the last 2 versions of C4D...they have done just that... I mean even little things like Muscles integrated in their newly upgraded joint-based (MOCCA) CA system. Pyro-Cluster (ala Afterburn for Max, and Dynamite for LW) is included with their "Thinking Particles" system. These folks aren't kidding around. They have come to take somebody's lunch money!:hammer:
When you have the resources these corporations do, you can do that from time to time.

Steamthrower
04-08-2007, 01:37 PM
Do you know what the absolute primary reason was that I bought Lightwave instead of Maya?

Because Newtek is a small private company. That makes a good product. I mean, which Adobe employee has a personal blog in which he shows pictures of his latest hog hunt?

Don't ever sell out, Newtek!

Danic101
04-08-2007, 01:43 PM
I sent one of my graphics guys to photoshop world this week and he said the Product manager mentioned Rendition in his keynote and showed an alpha version.

monovich
04-08-2007, 11:56 PM
Newtek and Adobe toghether on PS? Cool.

-s

mpiper
04-11-2007, 02:58 PM
Hello everyone,

I just got back from Photoshop World. They spent a HUGE amount of time on CS3. Here's the lowdown on where this fits in, but no details, since I don't have any.

Photoshop Extended can also load and display 3D objects, which can be manipulated in 3D space within Photoshop. Photoshop will also open a flat colormap that can be edited in PS and the changes immediately update on the 3D model in Photoshop, so you now have a way to paint on a model with only Lightwave and Photoshop, no DeepPaint, Z-Brush, etc.

Lightwave Objects are not natively accepted by PS CS3 Extended, so I'm betting this plugin adds Lightwave suppport, with some extra features, like maybe two-way communication, or 3D animation rendering from within PS.

Mike

sadkkf
04-12-2007, 11:40 AM
*sigh*

Adobe acquiring NT? I've stated before I think they're looking at Discreet or whatever they're called these days. Maya, CAD, etc. Acrobat 3D already supports CAD files so why not swallow that app as they have with Flash, Dreamweaver, etc.?

As others have already stated, Adobe apps are nice. They just work and seldom crash. I'm not want to upgrade to every new version, however, since they really haven't released a PS with many must-have features in a while, but CS3 is one I'll nab right away.

Now that they've swallowed Macromedia, I expect the same lackluster upgrades and so far I'm not disappointed with Dreamweaver. Flash, on the other hand, has some long-needed features. The pessimist here will say these features were developed *prior* to the merger. ;)

Still, the biggest advantage to an acquisition...marketing. Adobe announces an update and weeks later it shows up. Sony announced Sound Forge 9 the day it was available. It's been almost a year for me since I've upgraded to VT5 and all I have to show for it is a reduced bank account, lost interest and SpeedEdit my laptop is too slow to use.

*sigh*

Wonderpup
04-12-2007, 01:11 PM
Max Maya and XSI do not have their own rendering engines- they all rely on mental ray- Lightwave has it's own rendering tech which would make it attractive to adobe- in many ways if adobe are in the market to aquire a 3d app lightwave is certainly a contender.

Elmar Moelzer
04-13-2007, 01:30 PM
Hmm, if I was Adobe and was looking to buy a 3d- company that fits into my company profile, I would probably have a very close look at Zbrush...
Reason is:
Zbrush is a tool- not unlike PS- that is used by a wide variety of users of all other 3d- software packages.
It somehow is not really a "competitor" to others and more seen as a complementary tool and well it does painting and is kinda 2d and kinda 3d. Would seem to me that it could fit in there quite well...
It also is a comparably new and "smaller" player on the market still.
They have also got a MAC-version which would- I am sure- be an important point for Adobe.
Only thing they would probably change is the UI and make it more Adobeish...

The other possible app that would be interesting might be modo. They also have a Mac-version, they are still rather small, they have painting tools. Their UI code is very flexible.

Adobe buying LightWave? I dont think that NewTek would want to sell LightWave anymore. They finally got the dev-team together and they are making really great progress.
And since NewTek is privately held, they cant be bought out if they dont want to.
Also, I dont think that LW quite fits into the Adobe line as good as the other two would. LW is to big, to mature and carries to much weight arround with it (and thats not even meant negatively, in some ways it is even good, but it just does not quite fit with Adobe in my opinion).
Just my two cents.
CU
Elmar

Elmar Moelzer
04-13-2007, 03:08 PM
Well Adobe bought Cooledit, still the best Wave Editor ever written and added it to their suite.
Not that they made it any worse, but from what I have seen it is in not any better either...
So anyway I think that Adobe knows quite well who to buy... Whether they can negotiate a deal is a different question though.
I dont think that Mudbox is interesting to them. As you said, it is version 1.0.
All the apps that Adobe bought (from what I have seen) were comparably mature products.
CU
Elmar

jin choung
04-14-2007, 01:39 AM
mpiper,

THANKS! COoooooool, that's pretty much all i ever needed in a 3d app program and i never wanted to have to re-learn photoshop painting in another app!

YES!

and it'll probably be only a matter of time before we can brush right on the mesh so this is a very very good and promising development for me.

actually, now that newtek and adobe are chummy enough to have a lw plugin mentioned on the adobe site proper, howabout we get some coop synergy going so we can get a LW camera and nulls into AFTER EFFECTS?!?!?!

come on! ae can load in a .ma file... how difficult could it be to make a plugin to load in an - always has been, always will be - ascii .lws?!

come on people! SYNERGY! thinking OUTSIDE THE BOX! a whole new PARADIGM! and other such cliched corporate nonsense! GO!

jin

BazC
04-15-2007, 02:54 AM
mpiper,

THANKS! COoooooool, that's pretty much all i ever needed in a 3d app program and i never wanted to have to re-learn photoshop painting in another app!

YES!

and it'll probably be only a matter of time before we can brush right on the mesh so this is a very very good and promising development for me.

actually, now that newtek and adobe are chummy enough to have a lw plugin mentioned on the adobe site proper, howabout we get some coop synergy going so we can get a LW camera and nulls into AFTER EFFECTS?!?!?!

come on! ae can load in a .ma file... how difficult could it be to make a plugin to load in an - always has been, always will be - ascii .lws?!

come on people! SYNERGY! thinking OUTSIDE THE BOX! a whole new PARADIGM! and other such cliched corporate nonsense! GO!

jin

Jin, I think you're going to be disappointed! You can paint on your texture but it isn't updated on the model until you SAVE, which is a real workflow killer. Besides you can already do this with Photoshop using a number of apps including UVmapperPro which is a fraction of the cost of PS update ($59.95) I think Hexagon will do it too.

Wonderpup
04-15-2007, 11:29 AM
Also, I dont think that LW quite fits into the Adobe line as good as the other two would. LW is to big,

I don't see this as a problem- adobe managed to swallow macromedia whole- and they more or less owned the internet content creation market- I don't think Lightwave would give them serious indigestion. I take your point about the historical baggage but again if we look at the dreamweaver/flash example the process of assimilation is already well under way. In future there will be no seperation into seperate apps- there will simply be Adobe creation suite- resistance is futile.

jin choung
04-16-2007, 05:56 AM
Jin, I think you're going to be disappointed! You can paint on your texture but it isn't updated on the model until you SAVE, which is a real workflow killer. Besides you can already do this with Photoshop using a number of apps including UVmapperPro which is a fraction of the cost of PS update ($59.95) I think Hexagon will do it too.

d'oh!

nuts... non-rt eh? you're right... that IS a downer.

but i'm HOPEFUL that they have at least opened the door a crack to 3d in whatever form... cuz when the door is open a crack, it's open a crack.

seriously, i must've written them every six months, "sooooooooooooo.... when're you guys gonna get around to 3d?" so i'm hopeful.

jin

cresshead
04-16-2007, 06:09 AM
Max Maya and XSI do not have their own rendering engines- they all rely on mental ray- Lightwave has it's own rendering tech which would make it attractive to adobe- in many ways if adobe are in the market to aquire a 3d app lightwave is certainly a contender.

that is of course absolute rubbish!:D

3dsmax
max has shipped with it's own scanline renderer from day 1 in 1996...and still does!....max has scanline, radiosity, light tracer..all of which are autodesk renderers...it also ships with mental ray with unlimited render nodes via backburner.
3fd party renderers for max:-
brazil
vray
busy ray
final render
....and a load more..


maya
maya has it's own software renderer, hardware renderer and vector renderer as well as mental ray

cinema4d
cienma 4d also has it's own renderer and the advanced renderer.

xsi
xsi....well this one your correct on...xsi does NOT have it's own renderer..it relies on 3rd party render solution with mental ray

...ahh...cleared that up !:beerchug:

Wonderpup
04-16-2007, 06:52 AM
What I meant was that Lightwave has a complete viable stand alone rendering solution capable of production quality results and comes without without licensing complications. I don't think anyone takes the maya native renderer seriously or even the max scanline for that matter. The reason that Max, Maya and XSI pay mental images is because they see the need to do so- if their own efforts did the job they wouldn't waste the money buying in mental ray.

stokeymike
04-16-2007, 12:51 PM
There is one thing for sure. If Adobe sell any software in the UK it will be exactly the same as what is sold in the USA but at twice the price. Meanwhile for you fellow Europeans, the petition to stop the Adobe price rip-off has already got over 5000 signatures:
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html

Wonderpup
04-16-2007, 01:21 PM
Las Vegas, Nevada -- NAB -- April 16, 2007 -- NewTek, Inc., manufacturer of industry-leading 3D animation and video products, today announced launch plans for their latest development, LightWave Rendition for Adobe® Photoshop®. The product created by NewTek's 3D division provides photorealistic 3D render output, such as recently used in the feature film "300", for Adobe’s just revealed Photoshop CS3 Extended. Based upon the Emmy® Award-winning render engine native to LightWave 3D®, Rendition™ for Adobe Photoshop gives creative artists the ability to render models imported through Photoshop CS3 and deliver the richness of detail, textures and lighting attributes found in the original 3D object format, all within the Photoshop environment.

Kind of makes my point I guess.

AbnRanger
04-17-2007, 01:38 AM
Whatever we may think about the pitfalls of Adobe purchasing a company like Newtek, one thing is for certain, it would pull Lightwave out of 3D obscurity, and make it's name a lot more commonplace in the entire market that Adobe services...which, with the purchase of LW/Newtek, would pretty much spill into every creative market place. Graphic Designer's wanting a 3D app. to augment their toolset would generally consider LW before the others. Same thing with Video Editors, Web Designers, etc. Package LW into CS4+ Extended and it's a done deal. PhotoShop Extended would grow to be to LW what BodyPaint is to Cinema 4D.

That would also mean LW's big brother would be just about the biggest kid on the block (Avid, Autodesk, etc.)...no longer having to fight the bully's alone.

prospector
04-17-2007, 09:12 AM
This does not bode well.
it's like putting the camels nose under the tent.
it's like giving them an ounce and hoping they won't take a pound.

But then again,

Maby Tim is getting tired of all the whining and is really sick of it, and is ready to sell out, take his money back to Kansas, sit on his International Harvester out in the wheat OR corn fields and just watch the sunsets.

erich
04-17-2007, 02:42 PM
Hey guys, check this out:

http://www.electriciris.com/

Bog
04-17-2007, 03:44 PM
Whenever the "Adobe should buy LightWave" thing comes up, it always makes me confused. If Tim wants to sell the company, that's his business, nobody else's. If he did, I'd be very confused - especially with the LW 9.x cycle really taking off. Across the whole current range of NT products, the company's never had a more jaw-dropping line-up of tools - from the continuous refinements to the Toaster, through new products like SpeedEDIT, to our beloved workhorse of 3D which is making incredible strides in it's capabilities (and therefore will naturally have a rapidly-growing userbase).

There doesn't seem to be any reason to roll a company of such character and unique identity - let's be honest, a company of Characters, there's nobody beige on the payroll - into a large, faceless, un-fun corporate giant like Adobe.

I've just tried to imagine Tim Jenisson in an Adobe "show shirt" and I think I had a small brain bleed. Does not compute....!

Gh0d knows there's little enough genuine personality left in business these days. Let's not be in such a hurry to stamp out one of the real highlights, shall we? Hmm?

theo
04-17-2007, 04:04 PM
The whole Revision thing is JUST a plugin, guys.

If Adobe was looking to but LW I just don't think this would have been the approach.

Pavlov
04-17-2007, 04:15 PM
Sure, that's speculation.
Anyway i'd be happy if Adobe could give a boost to LW's de keeping it's identity - same team, different economic management.
This would be a dream.

Paolo

jin choung
04-17-2007, 05:31 PM
actually, whenever i hear about people talking about selling and acquiring newtek and such, it just boggles my mind...

is there ANY indication whatever that that's gonna happen?!

cuz i mean i would LOOOooooove to win the lottery but i don't spend any time discussing details about the pros and cons!!!

i think we should move along people... really nothing to see....

jin

AbnRanger
04-17-2007, 09:28 PM
Well, this is quite different than the lottery. It's more of a specualtion towards market trends...which you see everyday on cable news. You want to see how your stock is performing, and are glued to the tube when some panel of experts talk about where they see your stock headed in the market. After all, you want to know,"Do I buy, sell, or stick with it for the long haul?"
The market trend here is that the competitors of your :lwicon: stock have large corporate owners and both the economic leverage and marketing clout to go with it.
Given this repeated trend, you might naturally wonder when, or if, and who might be looking at your stock...and whether they would help or hinder your investment.

Likewise, you've invested both time and treasure in LW. Why would you not have a remote interest in it's direction in this market? The Lottery is just blind luck and random numbers; whereas, this conversation is about observable market tendencies.

jin choung
04-17-2007, 10:08 PM
okay,

informed speculation is one thing. BLIND speculation is another. there is NO INFORMATION here to respond to. there are no "market experts" saying ANYTHING WHATSOEVER. there is no there there.

the ONLY THING that has been announced is that there is a lightwave plugin for the new photoshop.

that implies ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. no more so than the fact that after effects can actually load a maya scene means anything in terms of autodesk and adobe jumping into bed together.

it's like me "speculating" gee, i wonder when microsoft is going to buy apple! let's talk about that! what are the ins and outs of that? pros and cons?

heck, i might as well speculate, HEY, since everyone else is corporate and we're independent and cheap, when are we going to go OPEN SOURCE and FREE like blender? let's discuss that!

as i said, there is no information here that justifies the direction of this speculation. it is wishful thinking among some given an odd degree of validity.

so if we're going to entertain that notion, let's talk about when lw is going to be free eh?

jin

axaboss
04-17-2007, 10:44 PM
Notice Newtek hasn't stepped in yet to dispel the Adobe "buyout" assumption. Maybe there is truth to this rumor gone mad.

prospector
04-17-2007, 11:20 PM
yep, been a day now, the speculation is worldwide (as users are worldwide here :) ) and no definite proof that it's NOT being sold.

We're probably going to end up with all those Adobe icony things all over the screen. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

jin choung
04-17-2007, 11:41 PM
Notice Newtek hasn't stepped in yet to dispel the Adobe "buyout" assumption. Maybe there is truth to this rumor gone mad.

oki doke,

let's test that. i speculate that newtek is actually turning lw into a deadly death ray projector.

if they don't counter it, it's VERY TELLING EVIDENCE that something MUST be going on... something, deadly and... rayish...

jin

p.s. check the newletter. newtek has unequivocally DENIED IT. that enough for ya? can we move on?

jin choung
04-18-2007, 12:17 AM
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/newsletters/v04-n03/index.html

that's the link to newsletter... scroll down to the rendition plugin section.

jin

prospector
04-18-2007, 12:27 AM
yea yea, we read that

BUT

Didn't they ALSO say that LW9 would be out in Q4 ?

You have to look for the TRUE meaning :hey:

jin choung
04-18-2007, 12:33 AM
:)

y'know the thing you're doing in your avatar? that's what i'm doing....

jin

AbnRanger
04-18-2007, 03:47 AM
:)

y'know the thing you're doing in your avatar? that's what i'm doing....

jinBecause you are being way too serious...as if someone were trying to take your Bud Light. :tsktsk:
Nobody is saying a buyout or anything like that is eminent...

You said it's BLIND speculation...and I said there is a market TREND... meaning it's a common occurence in the market...so one MIGHT expect a similar thing will happen with the sole remaining privately held company in this market.
My point was simply...if it does happen, it's not all bad. Do you mind if I have an opinion here?
Don't get your bloomers bunched up over the matter.
Your Bud Light is safe...for now :D

jin choung
04-18-2007, 03:58 AM
market trend. fine. and it doesn't really bother me and i have no investment in newtek not getting bought out, especially if it would be good for them.

but:

1. again, unequivocally denied. so why are we still SPECULATING.

and

2. market trend is a pretty weak catalyst imo. you said that this is the kind of thing people do on cable news. i beg to differ. no one is taking the recent spate of mergers and then speculating "hey, when is M$ gonna buy apple? or when is toyota going to buy ford? (though that's actually plausible)? they don't see a broad trend and then start speculating on a company that has absolutely no indication of following suit.

right?

it's not the talk of acquisition that bugs me. it's the completely random decision to start talking about something that seemingly has no reason to be discussed that boggles my sense of logic.

it actually offends my sense of logic... which is a pet peeve. i'm all for ludicrous non-sequitors. but this is a seemingly serious discussion y'all are conducting and it baffles me.

but no worries. i bear no animosity.... i'm just strenuously bewildered.

anyhoo, that was my 2cents on the matter cuz i ended up subscribed to this thread. don't mind me. my objections will cease. continue as you may.

jin

Pavlov
04-18-2007, 04:05 AM
Ok, this has gone so much out of run, and i feel a bit guilty because i was one of the starters.
So i'll stop all this, telling you the truth: i am buying Newtek myself.
Now that you all know, please, stop waving absurd statements around.
;)

Paolo

DogBoy
04-18-2007, 04:10 AM
Because you are being way too serious...as if someone were trying to take your Bud Light. :tsktsk:

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't someone be HAPPY if you took a Bud Light from them? I mean really, Bud is bad enough, I'd hate to think what the Light would be like. I say, take that stuff away and give them a REAL beer.

But returning to the subject, your mentioning removal of a Bud Light on a NT forum; Are you hinting that NT are going to buy Budweiser out? Have you got inside info on this?

Spill, buddy, so we can make NT stop before they commit the biggest mistake in their history.

Mr. Plant: Just say NO!

BazC
04-18-2007, 04:44 AM
Pardon me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't someone be HAPPY if you took a Bud Light from them? I mean really, Bud is bad enough, I'd hate to think what the Light would be like. I say, take that stuff away and give them a REAL beer.

Fuller's London Pride perchance? :D

prospector
04-18-2007, 07:28 AM
jin, lemme put it this way;

there is nothing specific that made the speculation start, but there is an 'aire' about the whole NT/Adobe merger.

As witnessed by the amount of times Adobe has been brought up on various Newrek web pages and casual observers in the last few days.

It's kinda like the swirl in the air when everyone speculated about ATT getting Singulair...oh wait, they did !!!


CRAP..history is repeating itself

I can see the icons coming down the road now.

beverins
04-18-2007, 12:32 PM
The REAL question is when Newtek are going to make Lightwave Rendition for Microsoft Word. :jester:

mattclary
04-18-2007, 01:43 PM
Pardon me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't someone be HAPPY if you took a Bud Light from them? I mean really, Bud is bad enough, I'd hate to think what the Light would be like. I say, take that stuff away and give them a REAL beer.


:hijack:

Agreed! Give me any beer from the British isles! Unfortunately, the majority of my yank brethren have never been educated in what real beer is like and drink Bud Light in astounding quantities.

My wife and I like to entertain frequently and gravitate heavily towards imports (England and Ireland, pretty much) with a handful of domestics for the "uneducated". Once the "uneductaed" wrap their lips around a bottle of Newcastle, they leave me a cooler full of cr*p beer to dispose of. :( We have a new rule at my house: You want domestic, you bring it with you (and, please, take it when you leave). ;)

p.s. Sorry for the hijack, but beer is much more important than the sci-fi musings of an Adobe buyout. ;)

Elmar Moelzer
04-18-2007, 02:25 PM
LOL, I thought you were talking about real beer...
If you want that come to Austria, or Germany (especially bavaria). Thats where the real beer is!
Oh and we drink it cold...
CU
Elmar

mattclary
04-18-2007, 03:13 PM
LOL, I thought you were talking about real beer...
If you want that come to Austria, or Germany (especially bavaria). Thats where the real beer is!
Oh and we drink it cold...
CU
Elmar

I know Germany has a reputation for good beer, but so far, I've never found any I like better than the UK beers. :beerchug:

mattclary
04-18-2007, 03:20 PM
Can't say I've ever had an Austrian beer though... :question:

Pavlov
04-18-2007, 03:41 PM
Germany is beer-queen, i know few UK beers anyway. Any advice ?
Usually i drink an Italian beer which is almost unknown i think, but i find it one of the best around so far... Birra Moretti, nobody tried it ?


Paolo

BazC
04-19-2007, 01:21 AM
i know few UK beers anyway. Any advice ?


Off the top of my head I can suggest a few breweries to look out for (IF you can find them)

Adnams
Woodfordes
Shepherd Neame
Jennings
Fullers
Elgoods
Nethergate
Theakston

LOADS (http://www.d2engineering.co.uk/GreatBritishBeer/breweryAz.asp#A) more though. I'm not sure how available these are abroad but they do all produce bottled beers so you might find them!

AbnRanger
04-19-2007, 02:49 AM
Oh, boy...look what I started :beerchug:

I was alluding to the Bud Light commercials...like the one where the English instructor is teaching new US immigrants the different regional accents. One of the first expressions he says is, "If you're in New York, you say 'Yo Home's, give me a Bud Light...You got a problem wit' dat'?"

...and the last line, he says "If anybody asks you for a Bud Light you say..." And they respond in unison, "No Speak English."

Bog
04-19-2007, 03:08 AM
LOL, I thought you were talking about real beer...
If you want that come to Austria, or Germany (especially bavaria). Thats where the real beer is!
Oh and we drink it cold...
CU
Elmar

*Grabs laptop and passport* Is that an invitation? :D :beerchug:

Elmar Moelzer
04-19-2007, 04:09 AM
Ok, good Austrian beer:
Murauer beer and Hirter beer are very good Austrian brands, Goesser is not bad, Stiegl, a beer from Salzburg is very yummy.
Ottakringer and Wieselburger are not bad, if they are cooled well :)
If someone wants to drop by Graz, just drop me a line and we will arrange something :)
CU
Elmar

cresshead
04-19-2007, 04:20 AM
actually poser7 also released a plugin for adobe photoshop extended...
http://www.e-frontier.com/article/articleview/2158
so does that mean adobe are buying poser and e frontier?....

THE rumor is that M*d* and the company Lux****y ARE being eyed up from adobe for a purchase....get your rumors right!....

BazC
04-19-2007, 04:39 AM
actually poser7 also released a plugin for adobe photoshop extended...
http://www.e-frontier.com/article/articleview/2158
so does that mean adobe are buying poser and e frontier?....

THE rumor is that M*d* and the company Lux****y ARE being eyed up from adobe for a purchase....get your rumors right!....

We're talking about BEER here Cresshead, please stay on topic! :twak: ;)

cresshead
04-19-2007, 04:44 AM
beer...opps!
well i'm not beer fanatic..i like red wine and a tipple of port [am i showing my age??]...i do drink larger on occasion..usually 'wife beater'

have i done enough to get back on topic?

...really need a 'wine ching' animated icon not a beer chug!

Bog
04-19-2007, 04:51 AM
...really need a 'wine ching' animated icon not a beer chug!

A nice sparkly highball full of G'n'T wouldn't go amiss, either ;)

BazC
04-19-2007, 05:11 AM
beer...opps!
well i'm not beer fanatic..i like red wine and a tipple of port [am i showing my age??]...i do drink larger on occasion..usually 'wife beater'

have i done enough to get back on topic?

...really need a 'wine ching' animated icon not a beer chug!

Yup, that'll do, unfortunately I don't know of a British red wine that I'd wish on my worst enemy lol! We do make a damn fine G&T though! :D

kopperdrake
04-19-2007, 07:29 AM
ooh - with this weather I *knew* there was something missing :D It's about now that I suddenly get the urge to buy a hammock...every year, without fail, to sup my G&T from.

Unfortunately the preparatory G&T always comes first, and the hammock never happens :P

<slurp>

mattclary
04-19-2007, 08:38 AM
Now German wines, I like! I prefer beer, but if I drink wine, it pretty much has to be a Riesling, especially from the Mosel area. I'm no connoisseur but luckily I know people who are and helped me find something I can palate. :beerchug:

Lightwolf
04-19-2007, 08:41 AM
Now German wines, I like!
As opposed to whining Germans I suppose ;)

:chicken:
Cheers,
Mike

cresshead
04-19-2007, 08:52 AM
that's it...sun's out...i'm off down town to get a bottle of red and some salad for my dinner....i will be 3d modeling blurred this evening...
thanks for the idea!...
hope my model doesn't turn out blurred too
ha ha!

sadkkf
04-19-2007, 09:08 AM
Not much of a beer drinker myself, but I do look forward to bottle of good Souza. :D

mattclary
04-19-2007, 11:17 AM
As opposed to whining Germans I suppose ;)

:chicken:
Cheers,
Mike

Funny!