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Exception
03-19-2007, 03:32 PM
How do I make a clip or layer subtractive or additive or multiply?
I need to make certain titling and vignetting on clips, and I can't find it in the manual.

SBowie
03-19-2007, 05:44 PM
You don't, really - transfer modes are not a feature of SE at the present time.

KiloWatkins
03-19-2007, 06:28 PM
If you look in the SpeedEDIT Programs directory, it says or has a link for features. I run SPEdit from a slave backup OS drive from the .exe, so I can't read this without swapping drives. This is a 1.0 so get your requests heard, I seen the other about motion blur, and maybe 1.x will add these. There maybe something coming from www.bobfx.com or Jose's Tips n Tricks, so you might not need to wait for .x.

Exception
03-20-2007, 07:46 AM
Ok, I'll try.

There's surely a lot missing in this 1.0... even for someone who doesn't work with video editing on a daily basis...

Well, it's a good start, this 1.0, I guess. Just not very useable yet, me thinks. Too many bugs and omissions.

SBowie
03-20-2007, 08:01 AM
I'm curious - this seems to suggest that most other current NLE apps offer transfer modes. Do they? I've not looked recently, but in years gone by this was more in the realm of a compositor. (Not to say it wouldn't be welcome.)

Exception
03-20-2007, 08:09 AM
Here's what was sent to Newtek.
I'll finish this project, then shelve SpeedEdit until it's mature enough to be used in production. Until then, all the best with the creation of the program and the support of its users.

"Here's a list of things that we expected to be in Speededit, but isn't, and is part of the basic toolset in every other video editing suite we have. These things are vital and we cannot work with speededit without these tools. It should be advertised that these are not in Speededit until they are, as they pose major breakage for the workflow of any seasoned video editor:

- No easy muting/disabling of tracks
- No Transfer modes for clips (Add / Subtract / Multiply / Screen etc)
- No Image sequence loading for most filetypes
- No option to load a sequence or not
- No Additive dissolve etc
- No Motion blur and other basic filters (even VirtualDub has this!)
- No uncompressed Quicktime support
- Poor sorenson Quicktime Preview (garbled)
- No Lightwave uncompressed Avi support
- New Project Settings window is parasitic (hovers on top of other programs in front of Speededit)
- Crashes on various format browsing
- No .HDR format support
- No Exposing tools for high dynamic range images

I'm afraid a lot of people coming from Premiere, Avid or even Windows Movie Maker will be disappointed and sorry they spent their money on SpeedEdit. That is a shame as it has an enormous potential, and damages the Newtek name unjustly.

Speededit should not have been released without these options. All video editors available on the market have had these options for years, and it is expected of Speededit to have these. I certainly did.
For reference, I'm a Beta tester of Lightwave. The Ligthwave to SpeedEdit workflow is nonexistant, eventhough they are bundled in sales. Until SpeedEdit support LW image sequences loading (like even VirtualDub and all other free video editors do), HDR support, RLE and channel editing, SpeedEdit should be kept very far away from Lightwave, as anyone working with the two together will hit brick walls on every corner."

Enough of complaining now.
Time to work (in Premiere, unfortunately).

Exception
03-20-2007, 08:17 AM
I forgot to add that all clips are imported with the wrong aspect ratio...
So that requires a manual intervention for all clips.

I don't know how you do advanced titling without transfer modes, without jumping through 100 hoops.

SBowie
03-20-2007, 08:20 AM
I really have no trouble with sequences, but I'm still looking for an explicit reply on the matter of transfer modes:

Does Premiere, for example, offer this? FCP? Edius? A quick glance at Google hasn't located a reference that provides a clear answer, apart from one that may be out of date indicating it was missing from Premiere - but presumably you know?

btw - I'm not intentionally being argumentative ... just haven't had time to keep up with this lately, and as you brought it up ...

p.s. - I've had almost zero issue with automatic pixel aspect recognition, but I have seen one report here of an oddball size being misinterpreted.

Exception
03-20-2007, 08:41 AM
Does Premiere, for example, offer this? FCP?

Yes, both. Premiere has had it for over 10 years. Simple tick of a box.


Edius?

Don't know Edius. I know Avid does, and obviously all compositing packages do, (DFX, Combustion, AE)


p.s. - I've had almost zero issue with automatic pixel aspect recognition, but I have seen one report here of an oddball size being misinterpreted.

We're making a collaborative video over in the Lightwave Beta forum. I'm getting jpg sequences, TGA sequences, quickimes, avi's, various codecs and all output from LW. I have to push EVERY single movie sent to me through VirtualDub to make it NTCodec so it'll load properly, and then ALL footage is misinterpreted. Also single frame JPG's and TGA's that are obviousle square pixels get squashed. All of them, without exception.

SBowie
03-20-2007, 09:10 AM
... and then ALL footage is misinterpreted.The only thing I can think of then is that the majority of these are in odd (not auto-recognized) pixel/aspect formats, as opposed to the common, garden variety NTSC and PAL SD and HD formats that SE 'knows.' Even in such cases, a simple adjustment in the clip Properties panel should suffice to correct a problem.

SBowie
03-20-2007, 09:19 AM
No easy muting/disabling of tracks
Tricky, if not impossible, as SE is not really track based - but you can, of course, mute any individual clip or sample with a single click in the Trim Bay (always onscreen.)

No Transfer modes for clips (Add / Subtract / Multiply / Screen etc)
Hmmmm ....

No Image sequence loading for most filetypes
Can't agree - this is quite simple to do

No option to load a sequence or not
Agreed that an option would be nice.

No Additive dissolve etc
OK.

No Motion blur and other basic filters (even VirtualDub has this!)
-More filters is always desirable. VDub is not exactly an edit software though, and filters in SE need to be capable of realtime performance (this is a longstanding argument here, so I won't get into it.)

No uncompressed Quicktime support
QT support seems to be incomplete in this version, but the Anim codec, which is 'effectively' uncompressed is supported. Frankly, I'd put more emphasis on h.264 being implemented.

Poor sorenson Quicktime Preview (garbled)
I just tested both Sorenson and Sorenson 3 clips, both worked just fine. Not sure why you ran into trouble.

No Lightwave uncompressed Avi support
Seriously? I just rendered out the stock TRex anim using LW's AVI "Full Frames - Uncompressed" codec and it loaded into SE without a hitch.

New Project Settings window is parasitic (hovers on top of other programs in front of Speededit)
Why would you open this panel if you don't intend to use it? And if you do intend to use it, why would you want it to be possible for it to appear behind other panels? People would soon complain that they it isn't working if it did, not realizing it was hidden by something else.

Crashes on various format browsing
Over time, a number of specific codecs have been identified as culprits - NewTek has fixed this almost as fast as samples have been submitted.

No .HDR format support
Pending, afaik - though limited by the internal colour depth to some form of import, I think ... but surely not something you can include under the comment that other NLEs "have had these options for years" ....

No Exposing tools for high dynamic range images
Again, I'm not aware that many NLEs can handle HDR, much less end-to-end. Though, as hdr formats become more common I hope to see the day they can be handled without conversion; more than that, I also hope to see the day of affordable fully cameras and HDR apps. (Of the countless apps on my systems, the only one that can really handle HDR is Fusion.)

So, a few worthwhile feature requests I think ...

Exception
03-20-2007, 09:21 AM
The only thing I can think of then is that the majority of these are in odd (not auto-recognized) pixel/aspect formats, as opposed to the common, garden variety NTSC and PAL SD and HD formats that SE 'knows.' Even in such cases, a simple adjustment in the clip Properties panel should suffice to correct a problem.

Yes it does.
But for 40+ clips this becomes quite a laborious task, no?
The project is in square pixels, the imported files are bitmaps of clips in exactly the same resolutions as the project, and they are in square pixels too, so what's the problem?

Sorry for my annoyance, I'm just very disappointed, as I was looking forward to having a lot of fun with this package and now I regret using it. I'm not spending my time being creative but spending it dancing around the shortcomings.

SBowie
03-20-2007, 09:31 AM
Yes it does.
But for 40+ clips this becomes quite a laborious task, no?
The project is in square pixels, the imported files are bitmaps of clips in exactly the same resolutions as the project, and they are in square pixels too, so what's the problem?Not sure - for example a properly created 720 or 1080 render should import into any 16:9 format project (even anamorphic) without any need for tweaking.

p.s. - On the subject of changing many clips, you can do this in a heartbeat (with no rendering in VDub) using the Toolshed.

Bobt
03-20-2007, 11:10 AM
Yes it does.
But for 40+ clips this becomes quite a laborious task, no?
The project is in square pixels, the imported files are bitmaps of clips in exactly the same resolutions as the project, and they are in square pixels too, so what's the problem?

I agree on this you can use Tool Shed thats what its there for.
Save a setting,
Select all the clips you want to do this to and hit perform.

Exception
03-20-2007, 12:01 PM
Can't agree - this is quite simple to do

How?
Like, changing your preferences to 1 frame per imported image, select all the images, dragging them into the timeline, then linking them or rendering them out into a clip? That's no solution, that's a hack, and a cumbersome at that.

AFAIK, only TGA image sequences are supported. JPG, TIFF, PNG's, any other format, you're on your own.


-More filters is always desirable. VDub is not exactly an edit software though, and filters in SE need to be capable of realtime performance (this is a longstanding argument here, so I won't get into it.)

Sure. VD does this in real time.


I just tested both Sorenson and Sorenson 3 clips, both worked just fine. Not sure why you ran into trouble.

Me neither. :( I've attached a screenshot showing what the movie in this thread (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64156) looks like in the preview window (it exports okay)


Seriously? I just rendered out the stock TRex anim using LW's AVI "Full Frames - Uncompressed" codec and it loaded into SE without a hitch.

For me, its black all the way. It was confirmed by NT tech support.


Why would you open this panel if you don't intend to use it? And if you do intend to use it, why would you want it to be possible for it to appear behind other panels? People would soon complain that they it isn't working if it did, not realizing it was hidden by something else.

If I start Speededit, which takes a while to start up, I like doing other things with my computer and my time. That panel sits on top of everything, other programs, browsers, whatever. It interferes with the basic rules of the operating system. That's not very preferable :) I have to make a choice and kill that panel before I can continue using my computer properly.

Now also noticed SE doesn't work well with a tablet.

SBowie
03-20-2007, 12:46 PM
How?
Like, changing your preferences to 1 frame per imported image, select all the images, dragging them into the timeline, then linking them or rendering them out into a clip? That's no solution, that's a hack, and a cumbersome at that.
With default still length set to 1 frame, drag a folder containing a numbered frame sequence into your project ... rinse and repeat, or multi-select a dozen folders and drag 'em all in at once. Instant subprojects, play as clips.

I use a stylus, but not normally for editing ... not clear what would not work per usual?

Lightwolf
03-20-2007, 12:54 PM
Instant subprojects, play as clips.

I haven't tried it yet, but: Does this retain alpha and allow you to use them as overlays?

Cheers,
Mike

SBowie
03-20-2007, 12:58 PM
No, as you might expect with a SubP, since in the present version they do not have alpha capabilities. (Soon, I hope!)

Exception
03-20-2007, 01:10 PM
With default still length set to 1 frame, drag a folder containing a numbered frame sequence into your project ... rinse and repeat, or multi-select a dozen folders and drag 'em all in at once. Instant subprojects, play as clips.

THAT I did not know, and I thank you lots for taking the time to write down, as it'll save me bundles. Thanks!


I use a stylus, but not normally for editing ... not clear what would not work per usual?

Setting in/outpoints by dragging, little dial buttons... basically everything that requires dragging. The zoom bar can go heywire a bit too, but seems to be less sensitive.

SBowie
03-20-2007, 01:31 PM
Setting in/outpoints by dragging, little dial buttons... basically everything that requires dragging. The zoom bar can go heywire a bit too, but seems to be less sensitive.Mine seems to be quite normally responsive - an Intuos III, 8"x6" ....

Exception
03-20-2007, 04:09 PM
Mine seems to be quite normally responsive - an Intuos III, 8"x6" ....

Try to set your in and outpoint of a clip in the properties panel...

SBowie
03-20-2007, 06:03 PM
Hmmm - ok, if a clip is very short (say, 30 frames), it is fairly touchy ... fortunately, I know the secret handshake for these occasions. Hold down the CTRL key while dragging to increase precision by a factor of 10.

Exception
03-20-2007, 07:38 PM
Hmmm - ok, if a clip is very short (say, 30 frames), it is fairly touchy ... fortunately, I know the secret handshake for these occasions. Hold down the CTRL key while dragging to increase precision by a factor of 10.

Do you have your tablet set to mouse mode perhaps?

For me the thing spirals out of control with the slightest movement... Also all the cute dials become binary :)

SBowie
03-20-2007, 07:52 PM
No, I'm not seeing any of that here - and no mouse mode.

cholo
03-20-2007, 09:37 PM
Just for the record, VirtualDub does NOT have motion blur! Although it is called a motion blur filter inside Virtual Dub, it is a frame blending filter. Totally different animal. A motion blur filter would allow to make a title for, say, a 24p project, move it around, and show smooth fluid motion in spite of such a low frame rate.

Funny, I spend most of my time editing. This is what I do for a living. And I still prefer speedEDIT to any other editor out there regardless of all the "critical" shortcoming that you just pointed out. In the end, for me, it's all about the editing.

Exception
03-21-2007, 09:47 AM
Just for the record, VirtualDub does NOT have motion blur!

Ok, I can see that.
Still need this functionality in Speededit.

Regarding your preference, that's great, but software is hardly ever meant for just one purpose. It might fit a select group of people's purposes, but it lacks the tools to be efficient for my use, for example, and my use is perfectly well covered by the toolset of other editors. They've set the standard, and SE advertises to be better, but it doesn't cover the same terrain.

Now, on to other matters.
I've noticed that dragging a folder instead of having a file sequence import is problematic as the control tree of this object does not have layer properties. Drilling into that sub project gives you all the single frames. Mass-selecting them and changing the aspect ratio only changes it for the last selected. Toolshed does not have the pixel aspect ratio in its options. Even if it did, this would be a cumbersome workflow. This is very far removed from an alternative to importing sequences as clips.

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 09:51 AM
This is very far removed from an alternative to importing sequences as clips.
Plus it gobbles up memory an crashes (at least here using a miserly 1700 frames) and you loose the ability to overlay.

*hrmph* Back to PPro for the current project...

Cheers,
Mike

SBowie
03-21-2007, 11:42 AM
I've noticed that dragging a folder instead of having a file sequence import is problematic as the control tree of this object does not have layer properties. True, though as I mentioned before, something I hope to see remedied before too long.


Toolshed does not have the pixel aspect ratio in its options.Actually, it does - and if you create a suitable preset, all you need to do subsequently is multi-select, hit F9, highlight the desired preset, and click Apply. That doesn't seem too onerous.

I find SE's import pretty good at 'guessing', and get enough calls and e-mails from people with trouble importing into other NLE apps files to know that many of them require a little manual intervention on import too, so I'll not be easily convinced everyone else has a perfect solution either.

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 11:46 AM
I find SE's import pretty good at 'guessing', and get enough calls and e-mails from people with trouble importing into other NLE apps files to know that many of them require a little manual intervention on import too, so I'll not be easily convinced everyone else has a perfect solution either.
I haven't used that many other systems, but SpeedRazor, PPro 2.0 and edit 6.0 had less problems with image sequences so far.

Cheers,
Mike

ted
03-21-2007, 12:02 PM
I'm not denouncing the above requests, or defending SpeedEDIT per say, but as many of us have said, SE is version 1.0.

If anyone expected to have a Vers. 1 outperform all other systems in all operations, well, that's just unrealistic.
Look at what builds they are on.

SE can do some awesome things better then any other system.
If you can't function with it, use what you need and please keep feeding requests since that will help make SE 2.0 even better.
I didn't think anyone thought vers. 1 would have everything for all people.

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 12:05 PM
I'm not denouncing the above requests, or defending SpeedEDIT per say, but as many of us have said, SE is version 1.0.

Is it? It looks remarkably like VT-Edit which I have as well - and that is at version 3, 4? ;)
Mind you, I love it to death for what it does... but image sequence handling is one of the weakest spots.

Cheers,
Mike

ScorpioProd
03-21-2007, 12:10 PM
I didn't think anyone thought vers. 1 would have everything for all people.
Well... Actually, I think a lot of us at NAB 2006 did... And I think that view was encouraged at the time...

ted
03-21-2007, 12:12 PM
Lightwolf, Yup it does. :agree:
But that's mostly because it was designed by the same company.
There was some major overhauling under the hood. :D

Eugene, you've been doing this too long to expect everything on the first relaese. :)
Or at least I have.

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 12:22 PM
Lightwolf, Yup it does. :agree:
But that's mostly because it was designed by the same company.
There was some major overhauling under the hood. :D

Well, then saying it is just a 1.0 is a lame excuse, don't you think so? ;)
That would be like naming LW 6.0 as 1.0 - or the current 9.0 as 3.0 :D

Cheers,
Mike

SBowie
03-21-2007, 12:26 PM
I'm not so sure that's fair, inasmuch as I think the fundamental core of SE will have been so far removed from it's predecessor (which required the support of the VT card) in order to be a standalone app that it is effectively a new beast.

But 'a rose by by any other name ... ' or in this case number ... it has the features it has, more will doubtless follow, and all I can say is that I've not personally seen it show any particular obstinacy as respects sequences, etc.

ScorpioProd
03-21-2007, 12:45 PM
Eugene, you've been doing this too long to expect everything on the first relaese. :)
Or at least I have.
I have as well...

It's important to remember that anything you hear at NAB should be taken with a grain of salt.

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 02:28 PM
I'm not so sure that's fair, inasmuch as I think the fundamental core of SE will have been so far removed from it's predecessor (which required the support of the VT card) in order to be a standalone app that it is effectively a new beast.

Oh, I see that. But we're not talking core functionality here (in terms of "close to the metal" functionality) but stuff on the layer above it, the editor.
Then again, if VTEdit still has the same limitation (last time I looked at it it was at V2.0) then I suppose the issue is elsewhere.

Cheers,
Mike

cholo
03-21-2007, 07:47 PM
Most of my animations go through a compositing suite of some sorts before ever reaching my NLE.

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 07:53 PM
Most of my animations go through a compositing suite of some sorts before ever reaching my NLE.
Same here - and since they are rendered on a small farm they end up as stills. Thousands of them (usually)...

Cheers,
Mike

cholo
03-21-2007, 08:00 PM
OIC I usually end up with clips after the compositing stage. ;)

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 08:02 PM
OIC I usually end up with clips after the compositing stage. ;)
Unfortunately that doesn't work when rendering across a network. I also need to still sus out a way to get clips with alphas into SE - once I have a bit of time.

Cheers,
Mike

SBowie
03-21-2007, 09:08 PM
Multi-frame formats with embedded alpha should be as easy to import as single frames - afterward, just hit the "y" to turn on Overlay.

Lightwolf
03-21-2007, 09:15 PM
Multi-frame formats with embedded alpha should be as easy to import as single frames - afterward, just hit the "y" to turn on Overlay.
Yes, well, see below, we covered this ;) Either import them at once resulting in thousands of single clips cluttering the timeline, or import the folder resulting in a crash (with long sequences) and the loss of the overlay option.
Neither are satisfactory (i.e. how would one animate/position an animated bug or lower third?).
It would be nice to have a solid way to deal with image sequences and to treat them as full clips.

Edit: That's what you get for releasing a stand alone product - this non-video focussed crowd comes along and bitches ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Exception
03-21-2007, 11:23 PM
Edit: That's what you get for releasing a stand alone product - this non-video focussed crowd comes along and bitches ;)



Yup. Especially when you market it as the perfect companion for Lightwave, bundle it with Lightwave, give rebates to current LW owners, only to find out that 9 out of 10 export possibilities of Lightwave are not supported, and that pure basic post-LW workflow has not received any attention (certain necessary filters, etc).

Version 1.0 is exactly what it is, 1.0, not 0.9, or 07b alpha. This whole image sequences importing issue was discussed at least half a year before SE was released, and there were many voices supporting the absolute need for image sequence support for ALL image formats, not just TGA. The fact that it was never implemented is a glorious blunder, not a simple oversight, as it was a 'clear and present danger'. Not doing it then is going to deliver you angry and shouting children at your birthday party. ::tongue:

cholo
03-22-2007, 03:22 AM
Why oh why do you guys hate tga so much?

If it is imperative for you to use image sequences inside SpeedEDIT right now, is it really that bad to go that way for the time being, instead of the whole VirtualDub, Mirage, After Effects, Inferno, Import Folder, Set Frames to 1, Render in Notepad, Change Mouse Brands, Decaf or Sanka, Song and Dance? :P

Lightwolf
03-22-2007, 05:29 AM
Why oh why do you guys hate tga so much?
TGAs aren't the issue as far as I'm concerned, I love them.


If it is imperative for you to use image sequences inside SpeedEDIT right now, is it really that bad to go that way for the time being, instead of the whole VirtualDub, Mirage, After Effects, Inferno, Import Folder, Set Frames to 1, Render in Notepad, Change Mouse Brands, Decaf or Sanka, Song and Dance? :P
Yes, it is. If the damn thing crashes when importing 1700 frames, or you have to create a new AVI/QT every time you re-rendered a few frames (a glitch here and a client change there) then it is really that bad. Especially considering that this is not the first video editor written by these guys (if it was I'd excuse it) ;) Hm, even Vidget had better image sequence handling ;)
Or more bluntly: It is a very, very bad design decision and hurts in daily use... it may be the worlds fastest video editor, but not if you use image sequences (look elswhere for that).

Cheers,
Mike

SBowie
03-22-2007, 07:08 AM
Neither are satisfactory (i.e. how would one animate/position an animated bug or lower third?).Well, personally I use Targas, which renders this discussion moot. If someone sent me a bunch of TIFFs, for example, I'd likely convert them, which I could do quite easily even right in SE.


It would be nice to have a solid way to deal with image sequences and to treat them as full clips.Sure it would ... but the fact that filetype sequences other than Targa may (in some cases) require a few extra steps isn't exactly armageddon in my view, and I expect it will be addressed before too long.

No one is suggesting it wouldn't be a welcome improvement; only that the catastrophic nature is - shall we say - a bit overstated.

Lightwolf
03-22-2007, 07:12 AM
If someone sent me a bunch of TIFFs, for example, I'd likely convert them, which I could do quite easily even right in SE.
Unless you want to retain the Alpha. I at least have not found a way to render something out with Alpha yet...

Cheers,
Mike

Exception
03-22-2007, 09:35 AM
Why oh why do you guys hate tga so much?

If it is imperative for you to use image sequences inside SpeedEDIT right now, is it really that bad to go that way for the time being,

I'm currently editing a project where I get sent clips by 20 different people. They're probably in 10 different formats. Most of them are JPG image sequences, some Tif image sequences, a number of PNG image sequences, and one tga sequence.
See my problem?

I'm saying format discimination. Let the supreme court deal with this :)

KiloWatkins
03-22-2007, 10:10 AM
Mine seems to be quite normally responsive - an Intuos III, 8"x6" ....
__________________
--
Regards, Steve

LIGHTWORX Graphics & Video, Toronto
(905)456-9992 NewTek Authorized

Using a 12x12 20year old SummaSketchIII Steve. Thanks for the Ctrl reminder, but really don't use my Tablet to SPEdit with.

KiloWatkins
03-22-2007, 10:16 AM
Why oh why do you guys hate tga so much?

GoodOne Cholo! LOL Gee what does 32tga mean? LOLOLOL

KiloWatkins
03-22-2007, 10:34 AM
I remember it was in BobFX's chatroom when that programmer announced he had Tedit running standalone on his laptop. That was the last of him, NTek annouced he had been alienized! SPEdit is that inception, with HDTV support, and there are too many programs with Blur,motion, ect..ect... to do the things some feel should be in SPEdit1.0. Yeah, Aura/LW/Mirage can make HD/HDV files, but SPEdit is what is making Tedit grow a pair! LOL

Having done a Webcast of SPEdit to a guy who couldn't even handle a 1meg stream, I really love saving HD/HDV projects of old VCD,ect.. material, and waiting for another magic solution to get HDV/HD into a VT. Projects playing and recording to VT from SEpc is working fine for now, then using SE on the VT if I want an HD/HDV file. Too many ways to do the same thing, and anything is just a tool to do what you need.

KiloWatkins
03-22-2007, 11:46 AM
Now, back to Jose and his DVD release please!

TIA Jose

SBowie
03-22-2007, 08:38 PM
Unless you want to retain the Alpha. I at least have not found a way to render something out with Alpha yet..If you render a layer with Overlay on, if there is nothing (no fully opaque clip) above it, and you use a suitable 32 bit format, the alpha will be preserved.

At the moment, however, this operation is affected by the same alpha bug as is present in the CG, and the same 'workaround' works (enter an X value of .1 in the Control Tree to force the renderer into a routine that sidesteps the bug.)

I'm told this is already fixed for the next release build.

Lightwolf
03-22-2007, 08:40 PM
If you render a layer with Overlay on, if there is nothing (no fully opaque clip) above it, and you use a suitable 32 bit format, the alpha will be preserved.

At the moment, however, this operation is affected by the same alpha bug as is present in the CG, and the same 'workaround' works (enter an X value of .1 in the Control Tree to force the renderer into a routine that sidesteps the bug.)

That's probably why it didn't work when I tried (both rendering a still TGA and PNG).

Cheers,
Mike

SBowie
03-22-2007, 09:43 PM
If you don't do the offset, it works but is seriously ugly ... looks like some sort of premult error.

Chrusion
03-28-2007, 08:37 AM
I haven't taken the LW SE half-price-offer plunge yet. I was very tempted until I read a few of these "how do I do this, I can't do that" threads... things as an animator and video editor I expect SE to do, cuz that's what FCP, Vegas does, etc. So, I have to agree with Exception on his feature request list. Especially image sequences, track muting, and layer animation motion blur (eg, animated title overlays).

SBowie, could Exception's problems with auto pixel aspect be due to the dimensions of the sequences he's getting? They are 720 x 404, IOW sq. pixel 16:9 using a width that just happens to be that of SD NTSC.

Actually, Exception, I'm a bit puzzled as to why that rez was chosen. I assume you were wanting letterboxed "widescreen" NTSC. 404 is the correct height for that, but NTSC 16:9 would have to have be 640 sq. pixels wide, then resampled to 720 x 404 to get NTSC 0.89 pixel aspect. OR, just have everyone render out 720 x 404 0.89 aspect to begin with.

OK, enough of that, the reason I'm posting is to ask, "Everyone has Photoshop, so why isn't anyone using an Action to Batch convert a non-tga sequence to a TGA seq. preserving alpha if there is one?" Maybe lack of speed, I guess. Just wondering.

billmi
03-28-2007, 10:17 AM
OK, enough of that, the reason I'm posting is to ask, "Everyone has Photoshop, so why isn't anyone using an Action to Batch convert a non-tga sequence to a TGA seq. preserving alpha if there is one?" Maybe lack of speed, I guess. Just wondering.

Or, as producer of a project, specify .tga and a filenaming convention as the file format to be used in the workflow....

Whenever I jump into a new colaborative project, first step is always defining workflow and data exchange conventions. Otherwise there is a lot of time wasted on back and forth between folks tyring to get things into the right format, or not knowing which version of a project file was worked on by who, or most recently, etc. As the good Dr. Adams at CSU Fresno said on the first day of class, 90% of production is pre-production.

I don't see the issue of .tga being the only format that imports sequences automatically as a showstopper either. There are times when I want stills to import as a clip, and times when I don't (I used to hate it being automatic for JPEGs when loading numbered slate pages in Speed Razor.)

Certainly, it would nice to have the option to turn file sequence loading on or off for each supported filetype. That feature would definitely add flexibility without it getting in the way (as it used to in Speed Razor.)

SBowie
03-28-2007, 11:25 AM
Yep ... I think the reason it is the way it is is simply back around VT[2], sequences were effectively unsupported. Then direct sequence support was added for Targas only, because that file format lent itself readily to an easier 'realtime playback' adaptation ... and then the subject was never re-visited. I'm sure we'd all agree it would be nice, and is maybe time, for this to be extended to other formats wherever possible.

Rich Deustachio
03-28-2007, 06:32 PM
I don't see the issue of .tga being the only format that imports sequences automatically as a showstopper either. There are times when I want stills to import as a clip, and times when I don't (I used to hate it being automatic for JPEGs when loading numbered slate pages in Speed Razor.)

Certainly, it would nice to have the option to turn file sequence loading on or off for each supported filetype. That feature would definitely add flexibility without it getting in the way (as it used to in Speed Razor.)

Well if you drag in just the first clip of a number sequence then it would bring them all in as a sequence, if you select more than one it would just bring in the selected stills at the default length you have set in preferences.

radams
03-29-2007, 12:22 AM
Yep ... I think the reason it is the way it is is simply back around VT[2], sequences were effectively unsupported. Then direct sequence support was added for Targas only, because that file format lent itself readily to an easier 'realtime playback' adaptation ... and then the subject was never re-visited. I'm sure we'd all agree it would be nice, and is maybe time, for this to be extended to other formats wherever possible.


Hi Steve,

I totally agree with that !!

IMHO, I would like to see hdr, dpx, png, jpeg2000, etc...

Anyone else with a format they would like to see ?

For anyone working with LW (3D or Rendered frame comps)....or with Film based projects...we NEED to have sequencing to work... Thou you may not feel it is a show stopper Steve...It is a HUGE waste of time...that should be better spent...along with the ability to update the timeline with corrected stills... with some ability to refresh to load in new or revised images...or sequences...

Cheers,

Chrusion
03-29-2007, 09:51 AM
along with the ability to update the timeline with corrected stills... with some ability to refresh to load in new or revised images...or sequences
Whaaa!!! You mean SE can't do this!!!? You can't right-click on an asset in the bin and select "Reload Footage" "Replace Footage" or similar? I assume then you would need to close the project and reopen just to get any revised or added images in a sequence or other asset, correct?

SBowie
03-29-2007, 12:09 PM
That's true, Dean - if you relaunch, the imported media is updated. For a dozen reasons, I would also like to see a mechanism for (at least) forcing a refresh without restarting. Naturally, this might involve re-rendering the bg cache, but that's a sacrifice I'd make happily.

Chrusion
04-01-2007, 11:02 AM
Well, despite the limiting 1.0 feature set, I went a head and bought SE. I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope NT does with SE what they are doing with LW... that is, open beta and diving head long into accommodating user bug finds and feature requests AND do the same free point upgrade route. Remember, LW point releases in the past have benefited with several NEW and ADDED features/tools. 9.2 is a record breaker in this regard. It ain't even close to 9.0. A point two upgrade that acts and feels like version 10 or 11. Really!

So I hope the next couple SE 1.x upgrades are likewise free, share the SAME 'fate' as LW, and that NT puts the same effort into adding support for ALL types of img seq, asset refresh/replace/update, etc., track muting, open up options to ALL codec params, layer motion blur, transfer modes, sub-feature option toggles, etc, etc.

BTW, who is the head of SE dev? If they're reading, please get the underlying msg in this post... my ONGOING SUPPORT of NT by purchasing SE despite the lack of some specific features. It also means I'm trusting NT to do us right, do us proud.

ted
04-01-2007, 11:48 AM
Dean, Glad you joined in. Since SpeedEDIT is the new core of VT5, (by my assumption), you can be sure NewTek will be putting in all the development they can. It won't sit at this stage very long.
And as you said, unlike some others, NewTek has been more then fair giving out free "dot" upgrades.
The future is bright!

ScorpioProd
04-01-2007, 12:04 PM
I expect we should see the future in just two weeks at NAB...