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View Full Version : LW on 300?...no way



prospector
03-15-2007, 06:18 PM
SUPPOSEDLY LW was used on the movie '300'.

Now I know this to be a falsehood.
And anyone here can tell as well. And it's very easy.

Do a search on forum for CA
do a search on particles
do a search on LW stability

You will see that LW just sucks on all them

LW just won't animate
particles are impossable to work with
and LW just crashes all the time

Oh and the really BIG reason....LW is not a professional app, it's segragated, how can serious people use a 3D program that is not integrated?
impossable I say.

So we can see that LW could NEVER be used on anything but the most simple and basic 3D stuff.

:eek: yes, that was sarcasm :eek:

:D :D

Congrats Newtek for ANOTHER fine feather in your cap
and congrats to Pixel Magic for such a fine film done with LW

:newtek: really does rock !!!

ShawnStovall
03-15-2007, 06:25 PM
First came confusion and then relief. Thanks Newtek for all the improvements on Lightwave!:thumbsup:

Silkrooster
03-15-2007, 08:08 PM
LOL Prospector, I was starting starting to wonder what you been sipping. Congrats Newtek
Silk

jasonwestmas
03-15-2007, 08:16 PM
Yes, LW is used all the time in the film industry, since I started using it. . .go figure, it must actually create. . .something.

Nicolas Jordan
03-15-2007, 08:26 PM
I enjoy seeing entire shots being done in one app and usually one guy, especially in this case because it was in Lightwave! :thumbsup:
No need to complicate the pipeline Lightwave a few plugins can get the job done to a high standard.

TSpyrison
03-16-2007, 08:01 AM
:eek: yes, that was sarcasm :eek:

:D :D

Congrats Newtek for ANOTHER fine feather in your cap
and congrats to Pixel Magic for such a fine film done with LW

:newtek: really does rock !!!


Whew!! Thought there was gonna be trouble!

Captain Obvious
03-16-2007, 08:29 AM
You had me fooled for a few paragraphs! :p

colkai
03-16-2007, 09:10 AM
Me too, but as been observed in another thread, the "LW erase" attitude is still very prevalent in other articles.

djlithium
03-16-2007, 11:14 AM
I used to open up magazine articles and see discreet pumping max saying its done with Max.
Actually the only VFX company to be fired from the show used max. And thats why they got fired from the show.

Check out my new BSG tutorial (WIP) here on how we breakout shots and send them into the compositing pipeline with OpenEXR format here...
Free goodies on that page too. http://www.battlestarvfx.com

Speedmonk42
03-16-2007, 11:22 AM
I used to open up magazine articles and see discreet pumping max saying its done with Max.
Actually the only VFX company to be fired from the show used max. And thats why they got fired from the show.

Check out my new BSG tutorial (WIP) here on how we breakout shots and send them into the compositing pipeline with OpenEXR format here...
Free goodies on that page too. http://www.battlestarvfx.com


If I were really really really really rich.....

I would build a giant power sucking monster of a render farm and there would be only one thing anyone could do on it.

Render Lightwave spaceship battles.

Red_Oddity
03-16-2007, 11:36 AM
And for the folks who haven't seen BSG episode 18 yet, you might want to wait reading djlithium's article until you saw said episode, as it contains a pretty big spoiler, so, be warned.

GregMalick
03-16-2007, 11:58 AM
:eek: yes, that was sarcasm :eek:



Main Entry: sar·casm
Pronunciation: 'sär-"ka-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwar&s- to cut
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm

At first I thought you had lost your mind.
But now (ouch) I'll just run to get bandaids for my bleeding wounds.

:thumbsup:

Intuition
03-16-2007, 12:07 PM
Neil Sopata who works here et EdenFX off and on was working at Pixel Magic and did a couple of the shots in 300.

I am actually happy I didn't get to work on 300 because I was immersed in the film. When we did Superman, Hellboy, and now a new film I can't say we are woking on for this summer I always see where the fx work is.

Its kind of a curse. I can look for the FX work in 300 but I don't really see it the first time through if I didn't work on it.

I mean, I do know it but my mind seems better immersed when I don't know exactly what the wireframes or comp overlaps are. I wonder if George Lucas really sees what we all saw when we watched OT Star Wars or if he just remembers the set when seeing the final prints?

For 300, I would have loved the credit but I really enjoyed the film.

metahumanity
03-16-2007, 12:49 PM
ups, wrong thread.

Oh, and 300 looks great, btw! Congrats to all who worked on it.

prospector
03-16-2007, 01:30 PM
At first I thought you had lost your mind.
You had me fooled for a few paragraphs!
Whew!! Thought there was gonna be trouble!
I was starting starting to wonder what you been sipping
First came confusion and then relief

Ya know when your looking at something and see a shadow out the corner of your eye and look over just to see nothing?

After reading the boards long enough and see
LW can't........
LW won't........
LWs not........
day after day after day. I was seeing shadows of other programs sneaking up on me, calling my name, bekoning me to come to the dark side, when ya can just hear wispers but can't make them out except for the program names and something like this program is just perfect, or this program is so easy or this has everything. The constant barely audible sounds, the wispy shadows where there is nothing.....

Well I think it has been happening more and more to me. I was slowly being turned, I was dragged down into dispair thinking that my most favorite thing to do (even ahead of looking for gold), was slowly being passed by other programs.

Oh, I've fought back, I've held my ground, but I've found myself slipping, slipping, slipping.

But after seeing what can really be done in LW, my fortitude to stand against the forces of evil is again at 100%.

So the battle continues :hey:

jasonwestmas
03-16-2007, 03:36 PM
can't, won't, not. . . that's the name that every piece of software has from time to time ;) There is no holy grail.

Dodgy
03-16-2007, 04:23 PM
Sometimes it can be good to know the enemy... I use maya all the time at work, and it makes me realise how nice LW can be in areas where Maya bugs the hell out of me.

Lamont
03-16-2007, 07:45 PM
Sometimes it can be good to know the enemy... I use maya all the time at work, and it makes me realise how nice LW can be in areas where Maya bugs the hell out of me.Cut face - CRASH!!! Snap Vert - Crash!! Grab a vert and drag it... somehow everything else is pulled with it but on a falloff...

We had a guy's file get so corrupted, it wouldn't change the shading mode, or allow us to apply shaders. It killed all the history and he lost 2 days of work (it destroyed a saved file). I've had this happen to me, but not on this level.

But I do like surface sampler.

300 rocks... saw it twice.:rock:

Matt
03-16-2007, 07:54 PM
You know, I think one of the things that makes me stick with Newtek and LightWave is that is has heart, I rebel against big corporate conglomerates! They have no soul!

robk
03-16-2007, 08:37 PM
I got an email from CGsociety and there is a new article on cgsociety about the 300 movie and guess what. Not one single mention of Lightwave beeing used. It is a interview of the visual effect designer and effects director Grant Freckelton and he mentions all the subcontractors used for graphics on the film. Pixel Magic is mentioned but Screaming Death Monkey is not mentioned whatsoever.
There are links to the visual effects companies used and links to software used: Adobe Photoshop, Softimage/XSI, Zbrush and Maya. Gee I wonder what software is missing??????????????
This is a perfect example of why Lightwave gets no respect. On Newtek's site we read and article and view a video about how Lightwave was used on the movie and it gets all us Lightwavers Pumped up. The I read this Article on CGsociety and I just shake my head and think another lost oppertunity for Newtek to Push the advantages of Lightwave.
It just pisses me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here is the link http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3979

SP00
03-16-2007, 08:46 PM
Best thing to do is voice your concerns to the editor. Let them know LW should be represented.

zatara
03-16-2007, 08:59 PM
Sometimes I hate Cg society!!! And I think Newtek could say something about this, because Itīs a great opportunity to push the advantages of Lightwave!!!!

loki74
03-16-2007, 09:06 PM
Sometimes I hate Cg society!!! And I think Newtek could say something about this, because Itīs a great opportunity to push the advantages of Lightwave!!!!

Totally agree. NT needs to honk its own horn now and then, and take the credit they deserve.

Anyway, 300 was amazing, and I'm thrilled that good ol' LW had a hand in it.

Dexter2999
03-16-2007, 09:12 PM
You know if the people at CG society don't want to advertise LW then that is their prerogative, BUT when they are doing an article and purport it to be journalism then omitting LW is pretty reprehensible. And contrary to what a previous poster has said about this, other software companies don't advertise with them because they slam a particular application. They advertise with them because of the amount of traffic they get. Advertising on a web site is more like buying a billboard on the side of the interstate than advertising in a magazine.

I used to enjoy going to the CG site and checking out the competitions. But after a few incidents like this I find myself rethinking that sites relevance.

colkai
03-17-2007, 03:46 AM
I think you're all forgetting.
CGSociety do not have anything at all against LW, nor are they biased towards XSI and Maya. It's just they prefer to report on films and FX houses that, umm, err, use well.. other software. :p

We should be taking heart that LW has been given such a boost, sure, it's a shame other software packages will ALWAYS get hyped up more. However, it's about resources, if I can "entice" (*cough* bribe *cough*) people to mention my software more, it's good business tactics.

The fact that my rival software was needed to do huge segments is totally beside the point and big business has, and always will, operate in this way, because it's about bottom line, not truth.

DiedonD
03-17-2007, 04:10 AM
Its war of advs man, war of advs. The only reason CG wont mention LW, I think is because they couldnt agree on the price. What you think, that someone would advertise your product for free, on shear merit?! No, no, no, no. The ads there too have a price. CG is like a central information area. And if they mention something its advertisement. It has to have a price. What else there could be. I mean the artist clearly mentions it on the interview, and wont mention it there. Why? Is there a blood feud between Newtek and CGSociety? I dont think so.

But having an "Interview" with Special Effects producers, so that they can mention LW all the time, and other apps far, far less, is a well good technique to advertise indeed. Is it enough? definitely not. Its just a single step in a good direction.

It can only go through even further than that by us who want to promote it further, or they should put more money into it, appart from the interview costs.

But I guess their strategy is more price concentrated, thats why theres no followups. You see 3 major apps. The 2 M's and LW. WHo is cheaper with movie like results just like them? Its LW. Ok then, more possible to be purchased.

djlithium
03-17-2007, 08:39 AM
Who here would support a boycott of CGSociety?

DiedonD
03-17-2007, 08:44 AM
Count me in... What do we do exactly?

Dodgy
03-17-2007, 08:57 AM
I've been boycotting it all this time..

jasonwestmas
03-17-2007, 10:13 AM
I tend to avoid CG society. . . for various reasons, weird attitudes over there.

Count me in.

Dexter2999
03-17-2007, 11:37 AM
I don't know that a full on boycott is the answer. Your absence isn't going to cripple a site that ignores your app. and largely the users as well.

I think it would be more effective to have more LW users enter and win their competitions. Don't brag about your app. Don't slam another. Don't participate heavily in their forums. Just enter top notch work that can't be ignored.

When they ask what software you use, just say "Oh you've never heard of it." (I kid)

Seriously if we had more quality entries in their forums perhaps people who use other apps would take notice. Similar to the tact of the SPHERE Challenge took off from Spinquad.

And it has been said before but Congrats to Oddity on his win on their mini challenge. (I don't recall if he used LW or not)

hrgiger
03-17-2007, 12:28 PM
Dexter is right. The best thing you can do is put your Lightwave work out there as much as possible. Put it in bold or neon lights that your work was created in Lightwave. Creating an absense of Lightwave users and work only compounds the problem.

Celshader
03-17-2007, 02:05 PM
Who here would support a boycott of CGSociety?

I haven't posted there since mid-2005.

Mr Maze
03-17-2007, 02:19 PM
whats cgsociety:D

Andyjaggy
03-17-2007, 03:39 PM
I haven't posted there in a really long time. Perhaps that is part of the problem, Lightwave users don't post there!

I wouldn't worry too much guys. The fact that Lightwave is being used on films such as 300 shows that where it counts people know the power of Lightwave.

Ztreem
03-17-2007, 05:27 PM
Ignoring a site wont make Lightwave sell more, but if all of you that make good artwork with LW show it off in CGSociety's gallery more people will notice it. Oddity has done this a couple of times and been on the frontpage with his artwork made with Lightwave. That's good advertising for LW. To not be present on the forum and not show work done with Lightwave just make the other apps seen even more.

Silkrooster
03-17-2007, 06:06 PM
I think you guys are giving CGSociety way too much credit. Their forum/website will not make or break Newtek and lightwave. If you don't like what they do ignore them. We as a community will work together in making lightwave one of the best apps out there.
Silk

Cageman
03-18-2007, 12:36 AM
We as a community will work together in making lightwave one of the best apps out there.
Silk

To whom do we tell? ourselves? But we are the ones using the app already, no? Ignoring places like CGTalk/CGSoc is just stupid, imho. Do yo guys want to make LW known? Well, tell you what... CGTalk is THE place where many, many, if not ALL CG-people (Pros, students and others) at some point passes by. It is a very well known place... I understand that certain individuals have choosen not to participate any longer, but it doesn't automaticly make it a bad place, does it?

If I would guess, almost all artists at Massive gives a rats *** about SpinQuad or NT-forums; they go to CGTalk and Lux forums... how the hell would they know about LW if they never visit an LW-only forum?

There are LW-haters at CGT, yeah.. but for each release of LW they have less and less to say. If NT can bring more case studies like 300, people will get curious...

LW_Will
03-18-2007, 12:55 AM
I think that posts in CGTalk forums that reference posts on this board, or Spinquad, should start to eat away at the CGTalk's user base.

LW_Will

Cageman
03-18-2007, 12:57 AM
I think you guys are giving CGSociety way too much credit. Their forum/website will not make or break Newtek and lightwave.

I'm not concerned that LW will die because of this, but I do have a feeling that the general attitude towards LW as a production tool needs to be changed. Many artists (not all) that never used LightWave also have a pretty good idea (at least that is what THEY think) of how LightWave works, what the limitations are and what can and can't be done using it. They need to see things like the 300 Production Study to get their somewhat twisted views screwed in the right direction, if they allow themselves to stand corrected, of course. This doesn't mean that people need to start loving LW... no way... LW is not for everyone... but give some respect to the developers and users.

How would we, as a community, reach out to those people if we start to ignore one of the biggest online communities?

colkai
03-18-2007, 03:30 AM
Nope, there are no wierd attitudes over there. The problem lies over here, I thought y'all had figured that out already. ;) :p

Seriously though, you don't have to take boycotting steps, just don't bother going there if they don't say anything you wish to hear. A boycott suggests an anti-CGS movement, which would be at best bizzare as many folks here do still visit there, albeit many on only the odd occasions.

tonybliss
03-18-2007, 04:01 AM
BOYCOTT ... that is the problem ... I saw that Kurtis made a post there about the use of LW in 300 and NOBODY is posting there. Thus far only two reply post and one is from me and the other is from roberto ortiz ... the cgsociety lw moderator I think ...
Guys really you need to bump post like these let the maya, etc soothsayers have a glock at the use and power of LW, yes there will be the few jacka55es who will post their usual typo diarrhea ... I think we should be there to give such threads the well deserved enema and set the record straight.
I would hate to do a shot in a blockbuster movie and see a frame capture of my hard work done in the present incarnation of LW being advertised as being done by another fx house and worst yet done in MAYA.
Mind you Maya is great and I don't have a stake for it, but really we should respect our art tool(s).
trust me when I say, if LW gets the recognition and hype that Maya, XSI gets I think LW artist will feel more inspired to do greater things ...
Speaking of my demo reel should be up soon ...

Cheers LWers

Andyjaggy
03-18-2007, 09:56 AM
So instead of a boybot we could all make a goal to post there at least once a week :) Who's game?

avkills
03-18-2007, 10:07 AM
I thought about posting in the main thread about 300 and asking what software was used the most for the 3D shots. ;)

I know there are multiple threads about this here, but I post fairly often in the lighting challenges over at CGS and have yet to have anyone bash me for using Lightwave.

I think the best approach is posting quality work and showing that Lightwave can compete with the so called *big iron* 3D apps. Speaking of other apps, I've toyed with a lot of them and I generally hate the way the interface for animating and interacting with items works on all of them. Lightwave is easy. You select the item and point and move it where you want (the perspective views from lights is a big time saver). LW just seems a lot more logical to me.

-mark

jasonwestmas
03-18-2007, 11:55 AM
So instead of a boybot we could all make a goal to post there at least once a week :) Who's game?

Good points, I changed my mind. I like team efforts if people here enjoy working with others. However I think the posts on CGS should have some kind of "theme". Are you talking about the contests over there?

More often than not it feels like most users on software forums aren't interested in contributing to a "whole" and rather just "show off" what they can do as an individual. That's fine and good but not hardly fun for people like me. I've seen plenty of awesome work and was impressed by them but there isn't as much joy and "reality" as actually participating in a project together. On the other hand if we could all stick to some kind of "theme" that would motivate me more to participate in this.

tonybliss
03-18-2007, 12:01 PM
i r cool wit dat :D

sounds good ... but how would you go about implementing such and coordinating peoples times ???

jasonwestmas
03-18-2007, 12:11 PM
If you are asking me to take the initiative on this I can do that if that's what you guys want. As a 2D 3D freelancer (motion builder clean up) I don't really do exciting stuff most of the time but for my own stuff I do have some skills in preproduction from 2D concepts all the way up to rigging. I'm learning the other stuff too of course, 9.2 definately inspired me to do so.

Andyjaggy
03-18-2007, 12:15 PM
We could get a lot of people making some freaking cool scenes in 9.2 and then showing off what the "New" Lightwave can do.

tonybliss
03-18-2007, 12:21 PM
I think exception (that name makes me laugh now ... without exception) is piloting a project like that; but it would not hurt to have on going projects of this nature.
Hey Jason, ALL aspects of 3D and design are important, that's the big misconception with some people out there... you have do a photoreal babe or surrealistic scenes for it to be acceptable ... the real stuff is what you see on TV, web, multimedia and film ... so there are no happy endings, only several happy beginnings :D
... and yes 9.2 is my first production exodus from LW 8.5 :) ... it is really inspirational :)

jasonwestmas
03-18-2007, 02:05 PM
Yeah, there are a lot of misconceptions about all graphics, I'm with you on that one, there are a lot of important things that get unnoticed.

AndyJaggy:

We could just have a thread that showed random things but that usually leads to stuff that really doesn't get noticed if it's just a group of individuals showing their car, or character or VFX off. I don't think that would catch on because there is nothing unusual about that. A more specific and uncommon theme would unify the thread and so everyone knows what is generally going on and therefore becomes a more closely watch project. More progress would come about more quickly and that is what gets people's attention if that's what we are after. I'm thinking it is. :)

Well, let me think more on this. If it were to be collaborative we would need a means to exchange files or do a lot of work post and then exchange later depending on our needs.

avkills
03-18-2007, 02:29 PM
We could get a lot of people making some freaking cool scenes in 9.2 and then showing off what the "New" Lightwave can do.

I think Exception is already getting animations from people to do just that.

-mark

The Wizzard
03-19-2007, 06:33 AM
Here's a nice artical on 300 from SpinQuad:
http://www.spinquad.com/mreview/story/16

Just thought I'd add my bit.... :santa: