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Chuckpie
03-15-2007, 04:50 PM
My boss is getting upset with all the crashes and losing hours of work. So the question is is Maya or 3dMax more stable and would there be much of a learning curve?

pixelranger
03-15-2007, 05:09 PM
if the crashes happen THAT often, then something is wrong. I'd look into your hardware configuration or do a re-install with clean configs.... I don't have ANY crashes here at work. We also use Maya (generally a maya-based pipeline) and all I can say, is: don't expect any less trouble! I love working in Maya but I still favour LightWave for many tasks. They actually work quite well together aswell, by the way. We have point oven (mostly just export/import objs though) and it's very smooth. Maya demands a larger team to be equally effective and I don't see how you would lose any less hours JUST by swithing to another app. Are you using the Hub's backup saving feature by the way?

AbnRanger
03-15-2007, 05:27 PM
My boss is getting upset with all the crashes and losing hours of work. So the question is is Maya or 3dMax more stable and would there be much of a learning curve?
Max 9 is more stable than 8, but there are still very few plugins that work with it (new code).
You'd save a lot more time diagnosing the problem (maybe a Graphics card driver is the culprit), or as stated previously, a fresh install or even reformat the Hard Drive
is FAR better than doling out big bucks for another competing package, and all the retraining time involved.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side...especially when you got 9.2 and FPrime (along with the new features that soon due in the upcoming upgrade).
I've got NOTHING like FPrime with when using Max.

Captain Obvious
03-15-2007, 05:29 PM
My Lightwave only crashes when I do something really stupid, like close it down. (Seriously, a good 90% of my LW crashes are while closing it.)

Also, if it ain't got FPrime, I ain't usin' it.

Andyjaggy
03-15-2007, 06:01 PM
Yeah I have Max crash at least once a day when I use it. Crashes in Lightwave are pretty rare for me these days. And Fprime, how have I been a Lightwave user for 3 years now and not bought a copy........

Chuckpie
03-15-2007, 06:02 PM
I have auto save on when the hub works. The latest problem is, after spending two full days on a car door with all the latches for a case, I saved the object after changing the transparency. When I tried to reopen the object it would not open. Newtek said the source code was jumbled. I thought the program wrote the source code during the save process. Anyway it is not a hardware problem and this is the first time with this issue but that does not help when the boss is upset paying two days salery for no product. Thanks for the advice, I will hate to go to another software where the forum may not be as helpfull as this one.

AbnRanger
03-15-2007, 06:04 PM
Yeah I have Max crash at least once a day when I use it. Crashes in Lightwave are pretty rare for me these days. And Fprime, how have I been a Lightwave user for 3 years now and not bought a copy........
I don't know. If I have a Corvette in my garage, I plan to drive it, if you know what I mean. Get you one for $395 and burn some rubber:thumbsup:

Captain Obvious
03-15-2007, 06:10 PM
Really, FPrime is the best thing that ever happened to Lightwave.

AbnRanger
03-15-2007, 06:23 PM
I have auto save on when the hub works. The latest problem is, after spending two full days on a car door with all the latches for a case, I saved the object after changing the transparency. When I tried to reopen the object it would not open. Newtek said the source code was jumbled. I thought the program wrote the source code during the save process. Anyway it is not a hardware problem and this is the first time with this issue but that does not help when the boss is upset paying two days salery for no product. Thanks for the advice, I will hate to go to another software where the forum may not be as helpfull as this one.I realize that this may sound simplistic, but someone else on this forum had similar troubles after removing a virus. They had multiple crashes afterward. Upon reformatting the HD and a fresh install (doing an external backup of all your important data first), it worked perfectly. Have you run a thorough virus check on your system lately? There's a lot of malicious nasties out there waiting to wreck your data...unnoticed.

YOU WILL NOT FIND A CRASH-FREE PIECE OF 3D SOFTWARE. Some are worse than others at times, but they all have them. At least, with Newtek, you have a FREE Tech Support line to contact. Not so with Max (now that Autodesk owns Maya, I bet they don't either).

Ask your boss if he'd like to shell out an additional $450/yr just to make the same phone call to an Autodesk Tech Support agent?! You could buy another license of Lightwave for that (competitive upgrade pricing), F-Prime, or another dual-core render node. Not to mention spending an additional $3500-$7000 for Maya or Max.

Stuff happens...throwing the baby out with the bath water isn't a smart solution.

zatara
03-15-2007, 06:25 PM
When I installed LW 9 at my work, It crashes a lot of times. But at my house, I also have LW 9, and works perfect.
The diference, at my house I DON`T use Norton Firewall, I use windows firewall. So At my work, I disabled Norton Firewall, and able Windows firewall. Now, It works very well. And now, I donīt have any crashes.

Red_Oddity
03-16-2007, 03:41 AM
Well, no, Maya certainly isnīt more stable, and youīll notice that when you start using it, it will atleast cost you one to two years to iron out the kinks of the workflow and learn all the dos and donīts of that particular piece of software.
We have have a somewhat stable pipeline now, but be prepared to invest a LOT more time in debuggin the rendering pipeline.

In LW, what you see is what you get (most of the time anyway), if it renders in Layout, it will render on the renderfarm without any silly hickups.
In Maya, what you see is not always what you get, what renders in Maya often doesnīt render on the renderfarm, or have screwups (outside the reach of the user) that need to be worked around or fixed in the compositing stage.

And as stated before, check your hardware and software/drivers, as LW should not crash that often.
And when you loose īhoursīof work with a crash, maybe it would be time to start saving, oh i donīt know, every 10 minutes, instead of every 2 hours or so? It is a habit you can learn yourself pretty fast, and incremental save is your friend (hell, we even wrote an incremental saver for Maya (and many many many tools more to make it somewhat useable) and it has really payed off so far)

Bog
03-16-2007, 04:13 AM
Were either Max or Maya used on 300? No?

Guess they're not used 'round here, either.

*giggle*

nukemodular
03-16-2007, 04:26 AM
@chuckpie ...you are working two days on a cardoor without having backup savings???...after every bigger and smaller step i use shift-s for saving incremental. (or even every few minutes)..so if this ever happens to me i go back to the last working object...never lost that much time on a project...i never had that many crashes since i use lw9 or even lw9.2 beta...i think there must be something wrong with your configs...do you use 3rd-party plugs?...maybe itīs some of them causing the crashes...


...oops red_oddity already mentioned that...:D

Captain Obvious
03-16-2007, 04:29 AM
Did they really do the character animation for 300 in Lightwave?

nukemodular
03-16-2007, 04:30 AM
btw... before changing your app...go change your boss...haha...just kidding

Bog
03-16-2007, 04:53 AM
Did they really do the character animation for 300 in Lightwave?

Dunno, Cap. I'm just giddy. I blame getting up at six-thirty this morning - the whole world is wierd. The sun was on the wrong side of the sky. Everything was pale. Everyone was wearing business suits.

My brain is not tracking 100%, due to insufficient sleep.

cresshead
03-16-2007, 05:18 AM
i found lightwave 9.0 quite flaky with the hub 'on'...much better with it off but then you have to adjust the way you work to not having the hub around with i've found abit painful with quiting/clearing scenes to reload models that have been updated etc...lw 8.3 or 8.5 are much more stable i've personally found

[on windows btw]

max 8.0 sp3 is pretty rock solid for me..i have max9.0 but not installed it as yet as i'm still working on a project in max 8.0 so no point in risking it just yet!
..will get around to max 9.0 with a new pc ad their prod update due in a month or so...

also my NEXT pc will not have a ton of apps installed that i don't use and will have limited sessions on the net just for updates to it's software installed/os

i'm moving to my mac mini soon for 95% internet sessions....safer!

cresshead
03-16-2007, 05:48 AM
well not quite paranoia...when rendering with 3dsmax it takes over your pc so doing ''anything'' other than waiting for the render to finish is problematic...so moving the net to my underused mac mini makes good sense...with the added bonus of safer net browsing built in to an apple machine.

my mac mini will become my 'media pc' for net, email, dvd, occasional lightwave rendering tasks, video editing and music composition.

:thumbsup:

Iain
03-16-2007, 07:58 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3979&page=1&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=mainplug&utm_term=style_guide&utm_content=hero_image&utm_campaign=20070312


Couldn't see any mention of LW but then it is a CGSociety article so it was probably the main app used.

Chuckpie
03-16-2007, 08:06 AM
To calm the boss down it took redoing the project overnite (almost all nite). It isen't finished, but I have something to show the lawer now. I was saving every step but for some reason the file became unreadable and would not open. I prefer to stay with Lightwave I can only hope V9 gets better. Someone suggested FPrime what would that do to help the problems? I have been using Lightwave about 4 months and am still learning so I have no doubt part of the problem is me. Thanks to all you Lightwavers for your help and suggestions.

Captain Obvious
03-16-2007, 08:28 AM
Someone suggested FPrime what would that do to help the problems?
When the standard LW renderer fails, FPrime will usually chew through it.

cresshead
03-16-2007, 08:29 AM
incremental saves....don't just oveerwrite your model/scene....box001, box002, box003 etc....otherwise just go run into a brick wall for some fun!...i'll hurt!....just as with relying on a file not going belly up on ya...and back up to a usb key or other computer inc as you get a virus or your pc falls over....

also are you running a load of plugins that youput ontop of the basic lw install?

i've found lw 9.0 is fine if it turn the hub off and my current scene is over 2million polys with 16 lights and 253 surfaces rendererd out to 1400 x 570 with area lights in around 7mins on a amd 1.6 turion laptop..not a 'workstation'...and just a gig of ram...pretty solid in my opionion.

beverins
03-16-2007, 10:34 AM
I always teach the students here to make versioning copies of their work. Incremental saves every time you've made a lot of work. This goes with every single graphics program out there. Doesn't matter what software you're using, always make a data_01.xxx then after awhile of not crashing, make a data_02.xxx and then work on that. Then, if you see an hour has passed and no crashing, and you're about to do something that might be processor intensive? That's right, data_03.xxx. And so on.

Now, granted this eats up space when you are doing this with massive Photoshop files, so keep it within reason ^_^

Captain Obvious
03-16-2007, 10:38 AM
LW9 is working just fine for me, even with the hub turned on and a million and a half polygons and some heavy texture maps. It's been a lot more solid for me than 8.5 was. On the other hand, I've encountered some weird bugs: selecting layers in the surface editor sometimes doesn't register. It appears as selected in the list of layers, but the contents of the window remain the same. And my Spreadsheet just broke, too. Every time I open it, it just goes away again immediately. Very annoying.

Bliz
03-16-2007, 10:38 AM
Yeah I use Max, Maya and LW and no matter which app I use I always save out incrementally at least once every 10-15 minutes. When working on one model I can get a couple of hundred versions in the end but HD space is cheaper than losing a day's work.

At home I'm also gravitating to keeping my workstation purely for 2D/3D work and my old PC for web browsing, email, installing miscellaneous apps that are only needed once in a while etc. I'm not paranoid about virii and such but am more concerned with the amount of silly little programs that start to accumalate in your task bar. iTunes, Virus checkers, MSN, Java update manager etc. etc.
They all take up a small amount of memory and processor cycles, which individually isn't much but once you have few running it could mean the difference between a large render crashing or not.

cresshead
03-16-2007, 11:39 AM
incremental saves taking up a little space is insignificant compared to re modeling the object or re animating or re rigging the scene/character etc...
and HD space is as near 'free' as ever with online areas as well as 320 gig usb2.0 hd's being around Ģ55...and yeah...back up [copy them..not 'move'] your projects onto an external device be that a usb memory key, hd or another pc or even as storage area on the net....you'll come to thank it one day!

Red_Oddity
03-16-2007, 12:09 PM
PARANOIA!

Seriously, I run Windows XP firewall + Avast! and I have never had a single virus or internet related incident. Much less anything web related at all that has interfered with stability etc.

And I use my workstation extensively on the web.

Some security and AV firms, sure have induced mass paranoia in the general public and some CG professionals too, it seems.

Unless you go clicking on unsolicited email attachments or install odd apps from web banners and pop-ups etc. it's actually quite hard to get "the bug".

We don't run ANY virus protection programs on our workstations (for good reasons, as they often have proven to be more problematic in the long run than the virusses them selves) and no (software) firewall.
The only thing we do is making sure all computers run from behind a (firewalled) router with all ports in stealth mode with the exception of certain maintenance and remote acces ports that have been forwarded to specific machines.
We have never had any problems, no trojans, no zombies, no virusses (except the ones we were stupid enough to install ourselves).
And we also don't run our webserver from the same IP our office is on, so that helps in attacks offcourse.

kopperdrake
03-16-2007, 01:34 PM
Hmm - have to say LW is pretty much stable here, using it for 15 hours a day for a week with no crash here. I can't actually remember the last LW crash I had that wasn't caused by quitting.

Incremental save (I often have hundreds of progressive iterations of scenes as I hate losing work) and try LW on another box if possible. Could be time for a clean up of your current system and fresh installs all round. If your boss isn't too tight then might be worth getting a PC doctor in to check your memory and other internals.

Good luck, but I would be loath to move apps because of a knee-jerk reaction that your boss seems to be undergoing. Eliminating the easier things like hardware problems is cheaper in the long run than retraining time :)

AbnRanger
03-16-2007, 01:56 PM
Someone suggested FPrime what would that do to help the problems?
What I was implying was, that if you leave LW so hastily for another app...you lose the exclusive capabilities that FPrime offers ONLY LW artists. That's no small thing.

When you are setting up lights, tweaking your texures, etc...FPrime is your most bestest buddy in the whole wide world :D

eagleeyed
03-17-2007, 06:43 AM
When I installed LW 9 at my work, It crashes a lot of times. But at my house, I also have LW 9, and works perfect.
The diference, at my house I DON`T use Norton Firewall, I use windows firewall. So At my work, I disabled Norton Firewall, and able Windows firewall. Now, It works very well. And now, I donīt have any crashes.
I have Norton Firewall running on my system and have never had a problem. I found out it is the version of Nortons that is the problem, I am staying with 2004 due to no problems plus it doesn't hog as much system resources as the newer ones.