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dballesg
03-02-2007, 05:59 AM
Hi,

Just installed Speed Edit and playing with it.

I looked on the manual, but I not see How I can import for example an animation created on Lightwave and saved as a TGA sequence.

On Premiere you select the first frame and mark the Numbered Stills. But I couldn't find any similar on SpeedEdit.

I tried to select on order from my first frame of the sequence, to the last one, and drag those to the Timeline. But then I saw the clip was of a wrong lenght.

I tried dragging only the first numbered frame from the Add Media to the Timeline, change the out point there AND WORKED! :)

It is that mentioned on the manual? :) Just curious! :)

Best regards,
David

SBowie
03-02-2007, 11:36 AM
It doesn't seem to be, sorry.

dballesg
03-03-2007, 03:00 AM
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

That it is a very BIG important omission on the manual then! :)

I do not think many people would like to render videos from LW to use then with SE when you can do sequences as well! :)


Best regards,
David

Exception
03-19-2007, 01:34 PM
Well only sometimes,
Most of my image sequences never get imported as a clip, but as stills, no matter if I stand on my head and do a song. Now I have to push everything through Virtualdub in order to make it work.

reeeediculous.

SBowie
03-19-2007, 04:46 PM
Some filetypes (notably Targa) are recognized as sequences. Others (JPEG) for example, are assumed to be stills. You can override this (effectively) by temporarily setting the Default Still Length in Prefs to 1 frame.

KiloWatkins
03-19-2007, 05:20 PM
As for LW, try setting 0 as first frame rendered, if I remember Don B. posting. For whatever reason, Mirage .tga32's always load.

YMMV

Exception
03-20-2007, 06:49 AM
Arg.

Thanks for the replies.

cresshead
03-21-2007, 06:37 PM
so the only format supported at a seq is tga?
i use png's nr all the time from 3dsmax for combustion...they are much smaller than tga files...

can someone confirm the file types that ARE supported by speed edit as seq of images be default and not a workaround hack ala final cut express [setting still image time to 1 frame]

SBowie
03-21-2007, 08:09 PM
I don't find it a hack or workaround, really - 1 frame is my default, always has been.

cresshead
03-21-2007, 08:39 PM
just to check then...if you set 1 frame as your default still images length i can import png32 sequences with no hassles?

if someone can answer my question that'll help determine my purchase desicions.

SBowie
03-21-2007, 09:05 PM
PNGs import just fine - they aren't automatically recognized as a sequence by SE as Targas are, but you can simply multi-select them and drag them in (with alpha), or drag the folder in if the alpha doesn't matter. (In the latter case, if you need to, you can drill into the SubProject created when you import the folder, then render with overlay on to create a single anim clip with alpha.)

I just created a test sequence with Mirage to confirm this, btw.

Exception
03-21-2007, 10:15 PM
just to check then...if you set 1 frame as your default still images length i can import png32 sequences with no hassles?

if someone can answer my question that'll help determine my purchase desicions.

Not to sound argumentative versus SBowie, but the answer is: No.

ONLY TGA files will import as sequences. Everything else does not import as clips. The suggested 'workarounds' like dragging in a folder, making it a subproject and so on, is inadequate because you cannot adjust the properties of these entities properly (like aspect ratio, play speed, etc), and they take up a lot of memory.
Therefore, use either TGA or convert your sequences to uncompressed avi's using VirtualDub, or if virtualdub doesn't read your filetype, use LW to render them to uncompressed avi's.

Wegg
03-26-2007, 12:50 PM
I'm kind of shocked by that. I ditched .tga for .png years ago. I know hard drives are cheap but I hate filling my drive up with doubled up unnecessarily.

Exception
03-26-2007, 02:04 PM
I'm kind of shocked by that. I ditched .tga for .png years ago. I know hard drives are cheap but I hate filling my drive up with doubled up unnecessarily.

Well I'm sure with all the rucus this caused, it'll be addressed in the next update. For now, you can maybe use XNview to quickly convert your image sequences to TGA's... that's what I do now. XnView is free and very powerful for this sort of thing.
I wish Vidget was still around to do this kind of stuff.

cresshead
03-26-2007, 06:11 PM
well that's put a hold on my purchase...i don't do workarounds for basics like this...i've always outputted to png for combustion and tga would work fine but would annoy me!....don't know will have a think on this as there's a promo for lightwave/speed edit update...are there any more annoying things i shold know before i drop some cash on speed edit?

KiloWatkins
03-26-2007, 09:59 PM
Well I'm sure with all the rucus this caused, it'll be addressed in the next update. For now, you can maybe use XNview to quickly convert your image sequences to TGA's... that's what I do now. XnView is free and very powerful for this sort of thing.
I wish Vidget was still around to do this kind of stuff.
__________________

I'd rather still use WaveFilter Sequencer. Let me know private and I'll send it to you, as the author had no issues when I posted befor.

[email protected]

KiloWatkins
03-26-2007, 10:06 PM
are there any more annoying things i shold know before i drop some cash on speed edit?
__________________
stee+cats

Yeah, if you do not know or run VTedit, the learning curve will be the same as someone who never ran LW. Get it? SPEdit is just a Newtek product, fashioned in the My favorite martian way! LOL Either you find it so easy and intuitive, or you over think and find it hard. Even after the .XX updates, you will still be in the same boat. fwiw

KiloWatkins
03-26-2007, 10:20 PM
The suggested 'workarounds' like dragging in a folder, making it a subproject and so on, is inadequate because you cannot adjust the properties of these entities properly (like aspect ratio, play speed, etc), and they take up a lot of memory.

Though SPEdit is realtime for alot of the edit, somethings would still need a render for smooth clean playback. Certainly if you have many layers, which could still have problems after BGrender. Some globals will perform in Storyboard and not Timeline. These so called Workarounds or hacks you folks feel are making this product unusable, is rubish. Almost all NLE's will have a chore that can not be done, and another program will be used. It is part of being an editor, to know when some other tool/program/render/SaveAs should be done to make a production. Expecting a 1.0 to fullfill your entire need to not use other programs, well that is just short sighted. I've never liked these forums, so for any other POV's, most know where to find me. I've too many other help desks on gmail. And yes, I love crunching 20k frames from LW! Just not a gifted modler as some, but just reduced my studio from 5 to 3 PC's, I would use as source switching material.

TakeCare and

BestWishes and

Exception
03-27-2007, 02:11 PM
These so called Workarounds or hacks you folks feel are making this product unusable, is rubish.

Calling people's honest, opinion, and in this case even substantiated and supported opinion 'rubbish' is not very constructive.

Cresshead, to answer your question:
It depends on what you want out of SE currently. It's a solid platform for future development of the product but for now in terms of features it is incomplete. Most of the tools I use on a daily basis in FCP or Premiere Pro are not there, and neither are some which I expected there to be with a modern editing application.

The specifics are:
- No sequence loading besides TGA (as you know)
- No layer/clip interaction (multiply, screen, lighten, difference, etc)
- No Additive dissolve
- No VDub-like Motion blur
- No Speedup of clips with sound without increase in pitch
- Problems with various file formats, such as AVI & QT uncompressed, sorenson 3, etc.
- Instability, hangs and crashes occur as much as with Premiere Pro (which was one of the reasons for me to start looking elsewhere)
- No 96 bit support
- No titler (really! This surprised me totally)
- Very limited audio effects

Now, if none of these things bother you, it's probably the fastest workflow available, some things are very smart and it IS very very fast, much more pleasurable to work with than either FCP or Premiere Pro, it feels much more professional, the interface is smart and well thought out, and I would say, really easy to learn. Just glance over the introduction of the manual and you're on your way. There's a lot of things that you need to get used to because they're different, but they're different for a reason, and that is because they work faster. The storyboard editing mode is fantastic, simply a godsend.

So, it's got a bright future, and buying SE now will entitle you to updates I'm sure, so there's no harm. It's also dirt cheap, and I do enjoy working with it, despite the problems.

Wegg
03-27-2007, 02:54 PM
Other than the usual growing pains when using new software it has worked as advertised. I especially like the export options. The .mp4 render export fits right into my pipeline. Wasn't expecting that.

SBowie
03-27-2007, 02:57 PM
- Problems with various file formats, such as AVI & QT uncompressed, sorenson 3, etc.
- Instability, hangs and crashes occur as much as with Premiere Pro (which was one of the reasons for me to start looking elsewhere)
- No titler (really! This surprised me totally)
Just for a different perspective, I've had zero issues with uncompressed AVI or Quicktime formats, nor Sorenson3 (just tried it again to be sure). I find SE quite stable, despite throwing some major curves at it, and there is a titling function (perhaps you just haven't found it yet.) Different strokes ...

Wegg
03-27-2007, 03:00 PM
- No titler (really! This surprised me totally)

I got titles. With the FileBin go to C:/ProgramFiles/Newtek/SpeedEDIT/Effects/Titles and pick "Title Page.cg". Drag and drop that into your timeline.

Then with the TitlePage.cg selected, go to the Control Tree and click on "Title" on the bottom left. Then type away. I'm labeling all my shots with this. Works fine.

ScorpioProd
03-27-2007, 03:04 PM
Of course, I think it's important to remember... Did anyone ever say SpeedEDIT was meant to compete directly with FCP or Premiere Pro? Have you heard Newtek say this?

I mean, last time I checked, those were full suites of tools, not "just" a NLE.

Newtek has always aimed their products at unique niches. SpeedEDIT can bring a lot of people that have never edited before into the world of NLEing. Not consumers, but non-video professionals.

If anything, I would say the only NLE that one can realistically compare SpeedEDIT to currently is EDIUS 4. Both are "just" NLEs, without suites, and both have some similar strengths and weaknesses.

SpeedEDIT's strength is the easy learning curve, especially if you aren't already a NLE editor that is set in your ways. And the power of the storyboard/timeline duality. And the real-time/full quality/full framerate preview while you are editing.

Do the more mature systems have more features beyond that? Sure they do. But for bread and butter work, SpeedEDIT can be great.

I think a lot of us, myself included, may have had unrealistic expectations for what SpeedEDIT could be in a 1.0 version. It will get better as it goes along.

BTW, of course it has a titler. It's an effect in SpeedEDIT.

Exception
03-27-2007, 04:52 PM
I got titles. With the FileBin go to C:/ProgramFiles/Newtek/SpeedEDIT/Effects/Titles and pick "Title Page.cg". Drag and drop that into your timeline.

Then with the TitlePage.cg selected, go to the Control Tree and click on "Title" on the bottom left. Then type away. I'm labeling all my shots with this. Works fine.

Well I'm happy to hear that it has one, but how you describe how to use it, doesn't really work for me. Please see this screenshot. Where's that 'title' property? I'm not surprised I didn't find the function :)


Of course, I think it's important to remember... Did anyone ever say SpeedEDIT was meant to compete directly with FCP or Premiere Pro? Have you heard Newtek say this?

Newtek never mentions any other software package ever. So that's kind of a defunct argument. They never discouraged the comparison between them though... They call SE the 'fastest' video editor. Not the 'simplest'... and then, 'fastest' suggests there are others... what are these others then? Just Edius? I've never even heard of Edius. I'm not a video editong professional at all, I'm an architect, and I missed all the above features within one hour of opening the program.

Rich Deustachio
03-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Use your filebin tab and go to the C:/ProgramFiles/Newtek/SpeedEDIT/Effects/Titles and pick "Title Page.cg"

You can save the location to a new tab to get there faster next time.

ScorpioProd
03-27-2007, 05:06 PM
You don't have the control tree open. The Edit Properties panel you have on the right side of your screen is NOT the full control tree. The control tree is accessed from one of the tabs on the main editing panel ONLY. You can see the tabs on the top of both of the main editing panels. (Your top one currently being set for the timeline and your bottom one set for the file bin.)

But honestly, it's not that unusual to find a NLE with a CG as an "effect" and not a separate CG. Vegas 7 does it a similar way. I missed using the separate CG in VT[4] for a while, but you'll get used to the different workflow in SpeedEDIT's CG after a while.

cresshead
03-27-2007, 05:07 PM
i'd really like to see someone demo'ing the app and not just the flahy wizz bang arn't we great stuff but a more tutorial type video with a typical small project which involves setting it up, imprting footage/audio editing and adding titles and credits plus some cg comped footage too from lightwave.

newtek need to ''SELL'' it to me as a replacement to adobe premiere rather than just place it up in it's box with a price attatched.

Rich Deustachio
03-27-2007, 05:10 PM
Here is a link to the users guide.

http://www.newtek.com/speededit/downloads/SpeedEDIT%20UserGuide.pdf

Page 158 for CG info.

Wegg
03-27-2007, 05:12 PM
http://www.eggington.net/~wegg/RenderTests/Titles.mp4

There ya go.

Walks you through how to do it.

Exception
03-27-2007, 05:30 PM
You don't have the control tree open. The Edit Properties panel you have on the right side of your screen is NOT the full control tree. The control tree is accessed from one of the tabs on the main editing panel ONLY. You can see the tabs on the top of both of the main editing panels. (Your top one currently being set for the timeline and your bottom one set for the file bin.)

But honestly, it's not that unusual to find a NLE with a CG as an "effect" and not a separate CG. Vegas 7 does it a similar way. I missed using the separate CG in VT[4] for a while, but you'll get used to the different workflow in SpeedEDIT's CG after a while.

Ok, I feel stupid.
That is a nice titler, overlay and all. My apologies.
I have the manual, but after having opened it and typing in 'additive dissolve' 'motion blur' 'image sequences' '.hdr' 'multiply' and so on and finding nothing useful, I kinda lost hope in that one.
I did read it through and there's a lot of hidden stuff in SE that's very powerful. It's definately worth a read. I guess i just forgot that there's two different control trees. which is... slightly confusing :)
It's also not in the manual WHERE the CG titling can be found.

SBowie
03-27-2007, 08:13 PM
It's also not in the manual WHERE the CG titling can be found.Not really all that strange that you didn't find any result for features that don't exist, I think - though admittedly sequences should have been mentioned. You might want to take a look at Chapter 6 ("Titling - CG Post") though, which contains the image below on the first page.

http://www.vtworx.com/cgpost_01.jpg

Exception
03-27-2007, 10:12 PM
Not really all that strange that you didn't find any result for features that don't exist, I think - though admittedly sequences should have been mentioned.

Here we go again.

Features that don't exist but should, as they're basic functions of a video editor, and that's that.

For crying out loud, even premiere 5.0 had most of them, and that was 10 years ago. In the era of the Pentium 60 and all.

Go ahead, kill all the criticism, make sure nobody says anything bad about it, and that there's no feedback.
I've been a member of these forums for years, have almost 3000 posts on my name but nowhere in this time have I seen so much resistance to honest and upright criticsm on this board. In the LW forums I see major problems posted, and a new open beta that resolves these problems in a week. People are listening and communicating. Here, users fall over eachother to claim that whatever criticism is touted is due to wrong expectations or user error. I'm sorry, but that's unconstructive and hostile, and I'm tired of it now. If I have a problem with SE from now on, I'll email a kind and helpful John Perkins, and keep away from this section of the boards.

This won't do SE any good, it won't do anyone any good. People come here to read up on software they might buy or might have just have bought, and the tension in these forums is enough to tune piano strings with.

Ding.

cholo
03-27-2007, 10:43 PM
Exception:

Outsiders looking into purchasing SpeedEDIT lurk around these boards, so I would take the time to double check something before posting it as a bug or missing feature. It was obvious you were going to get spanked for saying SpeedEDIT was missing a Character Generator. It's ok to point out SpeedEDIT has room to grow and request some extra features, but constantly nagging about missing features is not productive. The same thing happens over on the LW boards regarding issues such as it's weak rigging tools and awkwardness to achieve some tasks, yet LW is a perfectly capable tool used in production environments that has room to grow, but delivers nonetheless. Same here. I've been asking for transfer modes since the good old days of VT2, I would love it if they were there, but I don't go on and on saying VT is just a toy and no self respecting editor in his right mind would use such a primitive tool in a production environment, because I'm such an editor and I do use it. A lot!

Anyway, I think we should all just chill and continue being supportive of eachother, particularly those less experienced using NewTek's NLEs. :)

Exception
03-27-2007, 11:36 PM
I never said SE was just a toy, or any of the things people have been claiming I said. The title editor was just one of a dozen of points, and it was a response to a longtime and very constructive member of the Lightwave user base, that deserves the frank and direct truth. As a fellow LW user I am in a position to inform about the workflow between the two. I was nothing but fair and honest, and I explicitly said SE has a strong foundation and powerful editing features besides its omissions. But that is totally ignored.

And even having the impression that people need to be spanked for anything is really rediculous. Is this primary school, who's the headmaster with the wooden stick then?

This 'constant nagging' you refer to is contained in two threads that I started with genuine inquiries about the possibilities of such functions in the software. Calling it nagging is misrepresenting the issues at hand. This is exactly what I mean with a high tension area.

cholo
03-28-2007, 12:50 AM
Just for the record, you made me laugh out loud with the headmaster with the wooden stick bit :)

I apologize if I ever made anyone on these boards feel like they were being spanked ;) I also apologize about the nagging bit. I never wanted to imply you did so by any means. I guess sometimes we get a bit on the defensive side of things on boards, based on negative past experiences (fanboys, naysayers, skeptics, flamers, trolls, you name it...). Again, I'm not calling anyone here any of that.

Anyway, to wrap it up, I'd like to offer all involved the peace pipe. Smoke it once and pass it along :)

Lightwolf
03-28-2007, 02:18 AM
Smoke it once and pass it along :)
*puff* *puff* *cough* *cough*

Who's next? :p

Cheers,
Mike - a bit drowsy now, good stuff!

SBowie
03-28-2007, 05:53 AM
Go ahead, kill all the criticism, make sure nobody says anything bad about it, and that there's no feedback.There was much more vehement criticism in beta at times, all from NewTek's best friends. And in response, there was action, but that takes time.

On the point of the manual, I continue to maintain it is unreasonable to expect it to cover features that are not in the program.

You should note that I only remarked above on three of your many criticisms - to point out that in two cases my experience was very different, and in the third that you were evidently misinformed. The rest I did not remark on, because they are legitimate points. As to the importance you place on the absence of these features .... well, we've all discussed that ad nauseum, and as it is quite subjective there is no single correct answer, so it's time to move on with your feelings noted.

This is a pretty friendly and helpful place normally, and no-one minds suggestions. In this forum, as in most others, people come along and say "I haven't found feature a, b, c and d - are they not in the program? Oh - a and b are, but c isn't and d requires a workaround? Too bad, because the missing features are biggies for me!" Such individuals generally get a pretty friendly reception. Another person may write a post which seems to carry a subtext that says "This program is basically an incompetent piece of junk because it lacks a, b, c and d!" Many here tend to tire quickly when the general thrust seems to be "The sky is falling," and in these instances it can go downhill pretty fast. This happens even quicker when several seem to be on the same bandwagon, so I'm not aiming this particularly at anyone here -- just explaining the nature of the group as I've observed it over many years.

billmi
03-28-2007, 06:52 AM
Well said, Steve.

ted
03-28-2007, 08:26 PM
I found this on another forum from Andrew Cross. I don't think he would mind it being placed here since there is so much commotion about this issue and it explains a couple things.

Sorry I took so long to respond on this thread ... I've been very busy
working on some things for NAB.

Our thinking with the Targa reader, for better or for worse was that
sequences started at image 1, even if that file was not present. The
reason for this was that it allowed people to start editing with output
from a render-farm even if the file sequence was not yet fully rendered.
Indeed, if there are missing pictures we insert black. This (should)
mean that you can work with very incomplete sequences of images in order
to make rough cut edits long before rendering or processing is complete.

Now, there is a good argument, that our thinking might have been wrong
... particularly if you want to mix numbers in frame sequences, then
again we do need to know something about what numbers are there, for
instance is :
i.e. Step50001 infact "Step5 + Frame 0001" or "Step50 + Frame 001" ?

Anyway ... I will make sure that the team know about this concern and we
try to find a solution that satisfies or improves life for most
situations. The TGA reader is an area we want to improve somewhat anyway.

Andrew

03-30-2007, 07:59 AM
Able to read .tga sequences is all very well, but once you move to HD asking your HD to read multiple uncompressed image sequences simultaniously is a bit unreasonable perhaps? - and they take up so much space that you can't possibly archive them in that form.
I would LOVE a little app that will just suck my image sequences and store them as some sort of high quality compressed video file for me to store, backup & edit from.
I suspect that many people wanting to use speededit are, like me, not in posession of endless storage space and not expert in video compression, and like me would love it if that little app just gave me some sensible compression options that I could understand & pre-select; I output a lot of my stuff as DivX because it gives an image quality per Mb far in excess of any other compressor whose interface I can understand, but I'm sure that there is something I should be using gives me archiveable versions of my precious LW render sequences.

SBowie
03-30-2007, 08:35 AM
Well, you can do this right in SE if you wish. Open the folder with the sequence, hit CTRL+a to select all files, then RMB-click and select Render. You might want to try SpeedHQ in the AVI codec options.

Exception
04-04-2007, 09:14 PM
I would LOVE a little app that will just suck my image sequences and store them as some sort of high quality compressed video file for me to store, backup & edit from.

You mean something like VirtualDub? :)
Does exactly this. Store in Newtek Codec and you've got a fst, HQ compression. Takes 5 mouse clicks to set up and goes like the wind. Loads every image format as image sequence movies.

nthused
04-05-2007, 08:16 PM
You mean something like VirtualDub? :)
Does exactly this. Store in Newtek Codec and you've got a fst, HQ compression. Takes 5 mouse clicks to set up and goes like the wind. Loads every image format as image sequence movies.

Thanks, Exception...worked great today. The virtualdub hint really saved my...well it saved me a lot of time :)

SpeedEDIT is great BTW I was up and going just minutes after openning the package. Fully happy...except on the "image sequence - only TGA - thing". Hopefully this will be addressed in ver.1.1