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View Full Version : Creating Joint morphs in Layout



Nigel_pl
03-01-2007, 11:05 PM
Hi all,

Forgive me if someone has mentioned this already, but I've noticed that in some of the recent threads that it would be handy to create joint morphs and manipulate point geometry in layout.

I've used SoftFX with the settings turned down as to not affect the model,
rotated the arm at frame 15, then used Edit FX to manipulated position of the points for a good joint morph. Returned to frame 0 and saved it as an endomorph. Adjusting the edit size allows you to manipulate the points like the dragnet tool.

You can also animate multiple point deformations over specified keyframe for some interesting character poses and save the settings in scene file or an endomorph.

Regards,
Nige

prospector
03-02-2007, 12:30 AM
could you go into more detail, please?
It sounds just like what I need, but I get so many hi res models that I end up with a 1,000,000 poly human :o :gotpics:

SplineGod
03-02-2007, 01:47 AM
an easier way IMO is to uses FIs Minimo. You can manipulate points directly in layout.

pooby
03-02-2007, 03:02 AM
Nigel, just bear in mind that you won't be able to make 'accurate' joint morphs using this method as many have found out the hard way.
Edit FX and mini-mo will move the points after the bones have been applied then you save them as an endomorph.
The problem occurs when you re-apply the morph. To make it identical to your original, it would need to be applied after the bones again, but it wont be, as morphs are applied before bones, changing the effect somewhat.

Smartmorph has an option to apply morphs after bones, but, as LW doesn't share the warped bone deformed space to Smartmorph, it works in Global space which is useless.

Sometimes, depending on the nature of your jointmorph, the difference between your modelled (with Editfx or minimo) morph and the applied one is subtle enough to get away with, but you will get better results if you use this as a starting point and then go through the ((very tedious but currently the only option)) method of tweaking it in modeller and swapping back and forth between Layout and modeller to check.

Newtek's future solution to this will have to modify the joint-morph you have made in Layout so it will look the same even when it is applied before bones.
(this is effectively what you are doing manually by going back to modeller and tweaking)
I'm only writing this for the sake of people who'll type in 'Jointmorph' in the future as a search.
I've heard a lot of users get confused when using the above method because you'd think that it would be identical if you've made it in layout. I did when I first tried it.. but jointmorphs, as a problem, is more complex to solve than it first appears. not impossible, but often requires lots of ping ponging and tedious manual work in modeller.

Werner
03-02-2007, 03:38 AM
I'm one of the people who learned the hard way. Newtek should look into this soon!

Dodgy
03-02-2007, 03:48 AM
Nigel, just bear in mind that you won't be able to make 'accurate' joint morphs using this method as many have found out the hard way.
Edit FX and mini-mo will move the points after the bones have been applied then you save them as an endomorph.
The problem occurs when you re-apply the morph. To make it identical to your original, it would need to be applied after the bones again, but it wont be, as morphs are applied before bones, changing the effect somewhat.


Can't you use nodes and set the node deformations to be after bones now? I haven't tried it, but shouldn't it work?

pooby
03-02-2007, 04:27 AM
Give it a go.. If it does work, it opens up all finds of other cool stuff.

I predict that it'll sort of work, but the bone-deformed space will not be used, and it'll have the same issues as Smartmorph after bones.

hopefully I'm wrong

Dodgy
03-02-2007, 05:15 AM
I think I'm onto something here....The one on the left is the joint sculpted by softfx. The one on the right, a morph node target.
And no going into modeler at all.

pooby
03-02-2007, 05:31 AM
Try rotating the parent bone by 90 degrees (any axis).

What usually happens is.. if you made a long 'pinnochio' nose morph and you rotated the head (with bones, not by rotatinig the actual object) by 90 degrees then the nose would not point out from the face as expected , but in the direction that the head was originally pointing.

It will look correct if you don't rotate the object as it is literally applying after bones it you made it originally.
If LW now sees the bone deformed space then it will hold up at any rotation too. I am highly sceptical..

Dodgy
03-02-2007, 05:31 AM
Arrrghhh! NT add BONES TO Iteminfo in Nodal!!!!!!
Can't get the flaming bone rotations at all in nodal!

Dodgy
03-02-2007, 05:33 AM
It works in any direction Pooby... But as I've screamed, you can't get bone info in nodes.... NT can you please please please fix this oversight....

Dodgy
03-02-2007, 05:35 AM
Ahhhh balls... Skews the morph if you rotate a parent bone :P

And it all looked so promising....

Nigel_pl
03-02-2007, 11:44 AM
Thanks guys,

I've only tried the method I mentioned for flexing the lower arm as it rotates in the pitch. I've posed the character in various poses and it seems to be okay. I am using expressions in the Motion Mixer to perform the joint morphs, as the joint morph plugin goes haywire when the character moves.

I've also tried some extreme morphs and noticed the problem that Pooby described, so you might only be able to get away with using softFX to create joint morphs in some cases when a high level of accuracy is not required.

Larry, do you know a way of getting around the problem that Pooby described?

Regards,
Nige

erikals
01-15-2014, 09:37 PM
Dodgy, i see Bone Info exists now, any idea of how i can go about it?
i'm as smart as a sheep when it comes to this... http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/th_smiley_emoticons_sheepflu.gif

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119317&d=1389842950

Areyos Alektor
01-19-2014, 09:12 PM
You're really crazy. :twak: The poor seeing this message it will take 7 years in the view.

Patience is the Queen of the virtues, but still your post-it should not be any moldy ? :deal:

erikals
01-19-2014, 09:25 PM
um.... lost in translation...

-------

working on a solution, hope it works out as planned. (crossing fingers)

Areyos Alektor
01-26-2014, 10:53 AM
I'd rather... lost in time. I should have gone to bed :D