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Carm3D
02-22-2007, 05:36 AM
My first ZBrush render:

http://www.Carm3D.net/ZBrush1.JPG

Okay so it's not hight art.. But it takes time to figure out it's goofy interface. I modeled the bowl in LW, made the UVs in LW then painted the colour map in ZBrush. I'll get to displacement stuff later.. But you see, I wanted a painting solution as much as a displacement solution.. And ZBrush is the cheapest way to get both. :)

Dodgy
02-22-2007, 05:44 AM
It's really powerful when you get to know all it's little intricacies. I've got a mate who's zbrushed to death and he's slowly filling me in on all the cool things you can do with it.

DiedonD
02-22-2007, 06:00 AM
Cant you just import the model, in this case the bowl, and paint it right there and then like in BodyPaint? Just circle, zoom in, paint here and there until your satisfied?

The same goes for all the displacement mapps. Cant you just sculpt it with the ZSub or ZAdd here and there after import, and be done with it.

I have the Demo Version that Im evaluating. But I havent been able to see how to do just that. Import, paint and scultp, export, aniamte and render.

tonybliss
02-22-2007, 07:01 AM
Hey Carm, congrats! ... and good luck with it!!
Hope to purchase my copy soon :) I def will need the toolset in ZBrush ...
could go with blender but I know Zbrush is proven ...
and yes that proven thingy for software apps do work .... its a mental thing :D

Dodgy
02-22-2007, 07:13 AM
You Tool>Import your mesh. Then draw the mesh on the canvas.
Before you do anything else, hit the Edit button, this puts you in Tool edit mode. then you can paint or deform the mesh. Go to the tutorial section of my web page, it has a more complete how to on LW>ZB2>LW.

DiedonD
02-22-2007, 07:55 AM
Thanks for the site Dodgy, but Im doing my best to escape from doing UV's in LW. Its been a curse ever since Ive entered LW world. I hate working with UV's in LW. Its making the map that really, really bothers me. Thats one of the things that Im interested in all ZBrushing so as I no longer havt to UV it in LW. And your explain how to use LW UV Maps in Zbrush, it seems my curse isnt letting go yet.

Either way seeing the end reult in your monster model, helped. Though Im wondering now, can I at all be free from the curse, and paint and put displacements in the model in ZBrush WITHOUT making maps before.

You know, only Import, Sculpt & Paint, Export, Animate & Render. Nothing more than that. No maps, no UV's, a shortcut that wont include it EVER again. I would really appreciate it, cause I dont know how to do that, and even the other tutorial mentions UV maps in LW then ZBrush then LW again.

Is there a decent shortcut, or am I still sieged by the LW UV Map curse :thumbsdow

tonybliss
02-22-2007, 08:13 AM
D, try these UV plugins for LW ... it takes off almost 100% of the presure of doing uv maps and its free ...

link to UV plugins
http://homepage2.nifty.com/nif-hp/

link to plg discussion thread
http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53778&highlight=free+plg

link to gif tutorial by moc
http://newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36784&d=1157894677

feel fre to pm me if you have any questions .. these plugs are a great timesaver and mostly fun to use when used correctly .. I have someminor request for it ... but greatly useful none the less

Dodgy
02-22-2007, 09:19 AM
Either way seeing the end reult in your monster model, helped. Though Im wondering now, can I at all be free from the curse, and paint and put displacements in the model in ZBrush WITHOUT making maps before.


You have to use UVs with Zbrush. You CAN generate your UV's in Zbrush (using the Tool>Texture Uv commands), but it tends to end up with the images being of a tiled nature, which aren't very artist friendly if you want to do some painting in Photoshop. Getting to grips with UV's in LW isn't really that hard, especially with the plg unwrapping edit plugin as mentioned above. It makes organic and a lot of inorganic UV mapping a breeze.

I would really recommend it.

prospector
02-22-2007, 09:35 AM
I modeled the bowl in LW, made the UVs in LW then painted the colour map in ZBrush.

Now that your officially the LW>ZBrush>LW expert :D
when is a tut coming out for the workflow ? I like working in LW UVs.

Maby by noon today? already 8:30 here so....GET TO IT !!! :D :D :D

prospector
02-22-2007, 09:52 AM
AHH Haaa..just looked at Dodgys site....an almost perfect tut :thumbsup:
And I say almost because it is still left up to me to do it, perfect would be having you here to do it for me :D :D so your 99% there......

So Charm3D..your off the hook...for now :hey:

Now I gotta learn how to paint better than a drunk on drugs...... :D

Silkrooster
02-22-2007, 02:59 PM
You know the best part of when I get zbrush(hopefully end of year) is I already know a small part of that community.
If you guys want a zbrush forum, just say the word, in the mean time spinquad (http://www.spinquad.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42) already has one.
Silk

Carm3D
02-22-2007, 04:18 PM
Cant you just import the model, in this case the bowl, and paint it right there and then like in BodyPaint? Just circle, zoom in, paint here and there until your satisfied?

Yes... For the most part. This was the way I approached it. My first try failed because what I didn't realize is that LW's .obj export does not preserve UV maps unless you go into the surface editor and apply the UV map to the colour of the surface. Your best bet is to reload your exported .obj into LW first, to verify everything survived the translation process. THEN bring it into ZBrush.


Thanks for the site Dodgy, but Im doing my best to escape from doing UV's in LW. Its been a curse ever since Ive entered LW world. I hate working with UV's in LW. Its making the map that really, really bothers me. Thats one of the things that Im interested in all ZBrushing so as I no longer havt to UV it in LW. And your explain how to use LW UV Maps in Zbrush, it seems my curse isnt letting go yet.

Dodgy is correct.. There are big advantages to doing your UVs in LW (or at least, outside of ZBrush (Silo2 Beta?)). This is what I'm thinking I'll be doing... Since ZBrush doesn't do layered painting yet, I will do much of my painting in black and white. Let's say my character has stripes.. I'll paint the stripes white on black. Then bring that image into PaintShopPro and use it as a mask / alpha.. And repeat this process for all elements of the character (lips, etc), and composite everything together in PSP. If the UVs aren't "pelty" then editing the image maps like this would be crazy.

Dodgy
02-23-2007, 02:52 AM
My mate showed me the power of zapp link, which means you can use photoshop as a 3d painter if you're not happy with ZB tools. You go to projection paint mode, hit zapplink and choose the buffers you want to copy over and hit switch. It sends it to PS, you start painting, and then switch back. ZB picks up the new version and applies it. Very nice.

Carm3D
02-23-2007, 03:03 AM
Hmm.. I wonder if that would work with PaintShopPro.. It can use Photoshop plugins.

Nemoid
02-23-2007, 03:37 AM
1) visit the steve warner website www.stevewarner.com
2) use zwave plugin (search it on flay)
3) zapp link rocks ! :thumbsup:

Signal to Noise
02-23-2007, 07:58 AM
Did you go back to LW for rendering or does ZBrush have a renderer?

How fast was the render?

CMT
02-23-2007, 08:12 AM
ZBrush has a phenominal renderer. There's some limitations as far as casting accurate shadows sometimes because of the nature of pixols, like you can't have an object completely hidden behind another and expect it to cast a shadow into the scene. But if you just are creating a character rendering, you probably won't notice that limitation.

Another small drawback is that there's no sss in it. But there's some excellent materials out there right now that come pretty close to faking it. Not to mention that if you decide to render your character or scene in ZB, you can paint/sculpt small details afterward as well as paint different materials on the fly. I find myself using the ZB renderer more and more for finished rendered art.

CMT
02-23-2007, 08:36 AM
Oh Carm3D, I almost forgot, congrats on getting ZBrush!

And for those interested in the rendering engine of ZB, here's a link to an image I did which was rendered in ZB. Could've been better on the fabric, though... Disregard the seasonal aspect of the image :) But it shows how ZBrush renders metallic and skin materials as well as the fiber material. Not good for long hair, but decent for fur. The beard was painted.

Santa rendering (http://www.loadedbrush.com/Coppermine1.3.0/displayimage.php?pid=135&fullsize=1)

Carm3D
02-23-2007, 09:14 AM
Wow! I didn't know it's rendering engine was so lavish! I'm guessing animation would not be practical :hey:

I just installed ZappLink. SO COOL!!! My head's gonna explode from the new creative options that have opened up before me.

Carm3D
02-23-2007, 12:07 PM
My first ZBrush'd LW render with Displacements.. Weee.. :)

http://www.carm3d.net/ZBrush2.JPG

jin choung
02-24-2007, 01:36 AM
actually, the cheapest way to get both is blender!

1.43 is pretty kicka these days....

but zbrush is probably more accomplished in its implementation (however goofily and nonintuitively it is accomplished... ugh... you actually have key+click+releasekey?!?! WTF?!?!?!)

hope you get the next version upgrade for free though... and i hope they take some notes from the 3d community and make a "mode" that is 3d based and not based on its legacy 2d+ paint days.

jin

Dodgy
02-24-2007, 04:40 AM
You should really check out the new 2.5 videos, lots of improvements to the workflow.

Silkrooster
02-24-2007, 04:37 PM
Oh Carm3D, I almost forgot, congrats on getting ZBrush!

And for those interested in the rendering engine of ZB, here's a link to an image I did which was rendered in ZB. Could've been better on the fabric, though... Disregard the seasonal aspect of the image :) But it shows how ZBrush renders metallic and skin materials as well as the fiber material. Not good for long hair, but decent for fur. The beard was painted.

Santa rendering (http://www.loadedbrush.com/Coppermine1.3.0/displayimage.php?pid=135&fullsize=1)
Now thats sweet.
Silk

borkus
02-24-2007, 05:38 PM
sweet indeed. very nice work on the santa.

jin choung
02-27-2007, 02:17 AM
hey dodgy,

do you have a link to the new workflow videos? i just saw the new features videos (pretty neat, especially the mesh projection!) but nothing on the workflow, which to me was always the deal breaker (ctrl-click-release control?! i know i mentioned it already but it boggles the mind... i mean... come on!!!!) .

it insists on doing things its own particular way instead of adopting industry standards - and in ways that don't help but hurt.

from the videos in the features, it still looks like some of that stubborness persists (an object is still a "tool" for some reason... [i suppose like a "brush" in aura or something]) but it's just a weird way to do stuff....

visiting pixologic again, i'm reminded how i used to think that zbrush was a bit overpriced... but it's more reasonable than mudbox alas.

isilo2 and blender for me for the foreseeable future.

jin

p.s. CMT, beautiful santa! see, this is the kind of thing that zbrush really excels at doing - images like that... but i think that makes it so that as a 3D tool (instead of a 2d+ hybrid), it messes up "standard" workflow.... but stilll, it gives illustrators the ability to do something like your santa pic.

imo, the best way forward for zbrush would be to have a LEGACY interface/structure based on its original concept as an illustration tool and a separate 3D MODE for use as a sculpting/mesh manipulation app for people dealing strictly with mesh objects to be used in other apps.... just my 2cents....