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View Full Version : Another reason I hate Max



Andyjaggy
02-12-2007, 08:21 AM
Well I have found yet another reason I hate 3D Max. I recently purchased Deep Exploration to convert LWO to different formats. I go to convert one to a .max file and get a message saying that you have to have a copy of Max installed on your system to do this :( Every other file type works, but not Max.

Elmar Moelzer
02-12-2007, 08:27 AM
Thats because MAXs files are basically a history of modifyers applied to a primitive. This can be extremely problematic (imagine someone modeling something using a 3rd party plugin and then trying to hand it over to someone who does not have that plugin and so on...
Personally I dont think this is the way to go, but a lot of Max users like it that way.
CU
Elmar

Andyjaggy
02-12-2007, 08:44 AM
I have noticed Max has a very unique way of modeling. PErsonally I can't stand it. No I can't just grap a poly or point or edge and start pushing them around. No I have to add a poly modifier to the object first, then if i want to do something else I have to collapse the stack first and then do it. That whole methodology just never worked for me. Give me a raw and straight up approach to modeling. That's why I love Lightwave.

cresshead
02-12-2007, 09:34 AM
your not having a good are you!:D

max is really no different to lightwave in regards to to selection of points, polys, edges etc...

think of it this way...your in layout and want to tweek a point...you have to launch a whole app to do that!....how weird is that?
also in modeler you can't just go select what you want..you have to choose via a button wether it's points or polys......and in modeler you can't 'grab an object' as such just layers...and there may be many 'objects' in a layer...also no object manipulators in modeler at all...

just showing you the 'other side of the coin'

as regards models using 3rd party plugins...you can alsowys collape the model to an edit mesh, edit poly, editable patch or nurbs....export as a obj.

with the development of lightwave going the way it is you'll be having many max type things turn up....i hope including scene states, xrefs, instancing, ies lights..editable models in layout..shift drag copying, drag n drop objects/surfaces..and modifier stacks i hope...either in modeler or layout.
so you can have a spline line..lathe it and then once you have your lathed model you can drop down and interactivly adjust the spline and see your result update in the viewport......and i hope lattices make it to lightwave soon too!

...okay max fan boy mode is now set to 'off'

:thumbsup:

Andyjaggy
02-12-2007, 09:59 AM
I know that Lightwave has wierd issues as well, especially to someone who hasn't used it before. I also agree that if I had more experience with Max I would probably understand why it does what it does in the way that it does it.

I started learning Lightwave around the same time I was first introduced to Max and the Lightwave way of doing things always made more sense to me. I guess it is just personal preference and the way you like to work.

cresshead
02-12-2007, 10:12 AM
yeah i like both!...

now if yo want to get me started on a 3d app i don't really like....

three letters long....

got it?:D

Andyjaggy
02-12-2007, 10:31 AM
Hmmmm XSI maybe.

oDDity
02-12-2007, 03:52 PM
Isn't the .mb (maya binary) format also restricted in that you need maya installed to use it?
It used to be anyway.

Martin Adams
02-12-2007, 04:00 PM
Going back a while I remember reading that the .max file format was a binary format. So maybe it's something crazy like a licencing issue to use it, or it actually uses Max itself to do the conversion.

shrox
02-12-2007, 04:06 PM
What bugs me most about Max is how difficult it can be to work on a file that someone else made. If they aren't very neat or efficient, it can be quite a chore to figure out. The modifier stack is maddening at times.

Andyjaggy
02-12-2007, 04:07 PM
According to the message I got when I tried to convert it, it looks like it uses Max to convert the object, or part of Max anyway.

As for Maya? I haven't tried to convert anything to that format yet. If it won't convert to Maya I am starting to wonder why I even bought the program!!??

Andyjaggy
02-12-2007, 04:08 PM
Yeah i don't like the modifier stack. I can see how it could be really powerfule, but like I said I like Lightwave's straight up way of doing things.

Stooch
02-12-2007, 04:12 PM
yeah max files are locked and will only work with a working copy of max. if you dont have max you want to make sure that whoever you are working with is giving you 3ds, obj, etc. Alot of max specific things simply will not translate due to dependency graphs etc. What deep exploration does for you is get as much info as you can, if you have alot of surfaces, groups etc DE will keep those and make sure the source/project paths are correct (batch mode too), pretty important for big scenes unless you like to do alot of renaming and relinking by hand...

Maybe an evaluation install of max will do the trick?

yeah not only is it binary but the actualy dependency graphs and tools have history which can only be assembled with the max core. its not that they are trying to make it hard, its just how max works. same for houdini, unless you bake something, it exists as a database for a series of mathematical functions... you have to execute these functions in order to arrive to the scene contents.

Stooch
02-12-2007, 04:37 PM
well, if you have an app in addition to LW that supports Collada plugins (https://collada.org/public_forum/viewtopic.php?t=228)

you could use deep exploration to get your assets into that program and then use collada to get as much info as possible.

this would be much easier if LW supported collada as well though...

Andyjaggy
02-12-2007, 05:30 PM
Well this is good information at any rate. I have noticed that DE keeps all the surfaces intact when I convert it to a OBJ or 3DS, which is very nice.

The other thing I have noticed is that when I convert to other formats it always converts all the gemetry to triangles. Is there a format that will support quads so that you can use Sub D's in a different app?

cresshead
02-12-2007, 05:50 PM
yeah obj sends out quads...and surfaces for lightwave...
also dxf can do quads but the surfacing is poor as it's a very old format.
3ds is triangles but does support animation, lights and cameras etc

i use obj all the time betweeen max and lightwave..no real hassles other than scaleing is usually off by a mile.