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amiga2091
02-01-2007, 10:00 AM
I basically would like to know what version of Windows Vista most people are running right now? Ultimate, Home Premium, or whatever other version are available?

John

Bytehawk
02-01-2007, 10:05 AM
I'd suggest delaying the upgrade to vista untill
- they sort out the content protection mess they made
- the hardware manufacturers perfect their drivers for Vista
- the first wave security bugs are squashed
- someone finds a shorter word for vista, why couldn't they just make it Vi ?

Bytehawk
02-01-2007, 10:06 AM
and to reply to your message : Vista Business is the one I 'll automagically get because of the upgrade sheme MS introduced after 10/26

iainbyoung
02-01-2007, 11:56 AM
I'm running 64bit Ultimate now with the latest 8800 drivers (released yesterday) and so far it's been rock solid.

coremi
02-01-2007, 12:59 PM
as i know vista bussiness wil not have multimedia implemented very well. check out here

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx

Earl
02-01-2007, 01:01 PM
When I get Vista (after the 3D performance is on par with XP) I will be getting the Ultimate version. I may not install all componants, but I like the option to.

Captain Obvious
02-01-2007, 01:06 PM
I'd suggest delaying the upgrade to vista untill
- they sort out the content protection mess they made
- the hardware manufacturers perfect their drivers for Vista
What content protection mess? Also, waiting for perfect drivers doesn't make sense, considering how many driver issues there are for Windows XP. Waiting until there are decent drivers, sure, but perfect? Doesn't make sense.

Bytehawk
02-01-2007, 01:28 PM
this mess :

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

especially the 'early adopters will pay' bit

sorry, perfect is a wrong word in english (I'm Dutch), it should have read once they improve on their drivers, especially concerning stability and the CP problems. Imagine suddenly not being able to play your songs because ms thinks you 'could' have copied it.

Captain Obvious
02-01-2007, 01:40 PM
Ahhh, right. That mess. It's been thouroughly debunked. It's just not true. Sorry. :)

Bytehawk
02-01-2007, 04:26 PM
great to hear that. I will be switching over sooner then. Probably when I hear everyone is not having any problems with LW/photoshop and so on.

cholo
02-01-2007, 05:45 PM
What about the OpenGL problem? Apparently OpenGL was dropped on vista and runs under some sort of wrapper or whathaveyou. From the reports on TomsHardware, specviewperf benchmarks were a full 90% slower on vista than xp.

Captain Obvious
02-01-2007, 06:00 PM
What about the OpenGL problem? Apparently OpenGL was dropped on vista and runs under some sort of wrapper or whathaveyou. From the reports on TomsHardware, specviewperf benchmarks were a full 90% slower on vista than xp.
Actually, OpenGL works a lot better in Vista than it did in XP. Keep in mind how goddarned awful OpenGL is in XP if you don't install proper drivers! Once you install drivers in both XP and Vista, things are peachy.

tyrot
02-01-2007, 06:45 PM
dear vista people

actually if mr. carmack is the master of open gl..we might consider his "hateful ideas" on vista..

i am really happy to read that he didnt choose to be silent against vista.

follow this link...a very good interview...

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200701/N07.0109.1737.15034.htm?Page=1/

he says..

"..They're artificially doing that by tying DX10 [DirectX 10] so close it, which is really nothing about the OS. It's a hardware-interface spec. It's an artificial thing that they're doing there.

"They're really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it."

short version here
http://www.dailytech.com/John+Carmack+Speaks+on+DX10+Vista+Xbox+360+PS3+Wii/article5665.htm

BEST

iainbyoung
02-02-2007, 01:54 AM
I suspect a hidden agenda is behind his comments. A quick web browse would show a load of comments from developers praising the new structure. The fact is, because dx10 is much more tightly integrated with the operating system instead of being a bolted on afterthought, it allows the prospect for much greater control over the system, as well as speed enhancements etc, which just weren't possible in xp.

DonJMyers
02-02-2007, 10:08 AM
Oblivion runs great on Vista!

I couldn't finish the game on Xp from the endless crashes. Vista runs as fast with only 1 graphics card of my SLI working as XP did with two. It almost never acts up even with plugins installed. Gasp! Plugins??? I had given up hope of trying them.

It's like a different game. Performance is much better. i'm sure my clean vista install helped but the whole system works better with oblivion now. Vista even fadest the game out if I leave it paused too long. I can alt-tab easily from the pause menu, etc. Occasional sound glitches cause me to quit and reload but that's nothing compared to the blue screens it has caused (graphics card crashes).

Can't wait till Nvidia gets its drivers together and I can try BOTH graphics cards on it at once. Their drivers aren't ready (even though their website boasts of their vistareadyness.).

Captain Obvious
02-02-2007, 10:36 AM
I always hated how unstable Oblivion was.

mj418
02-02-2007, 10:51 AM
I've been playing Oblivion on my XP Pro (32 bit) machine with 2 gigs RAM and an nvidia 7600 GT card ever since it came out.
I haven't had any problems, it plays great, all settings nearly maxed out, and I've just about done everything there is to do in the game, including, of course, closed all the Oblivion Gates and saved Cyrodiil. :D

zapper1998
02-02-2007, 11:35 AM
I'm not running any yet, but when I get it, which I will when all the graphics card driver madness is settled and OpenGL in LightWave is rock solid on an nVidia 8800GTX, I will get either Business or Ultimate 64-bit.


is your 8800 a PCI express card???

iainbyoung
02-02-2007, 12:04 PM
is your 8800 a PCI express card???

I'm pretty sure they all are. The card requires a 16x PCI Express slot...

mattclary
02-02-2007, 12:28 PM
I've been playing Oblivion on my XP Pro (32 bit) machine with 2 gigs RAM and an nvidia 7600 GT card ever since it came out.


Ditto!

If you want to see "unstable" of "flaky", try Gothic3. I love the game and am having a lot of fun with it, but definitely not up to Oblivion's stability.

DonJMyers
02-02-2007, 01:26 PM
My machine messed up oblivion because it is "too" cutting edge with two graphics cards.

XP itself would blue screen the machine a couple times a day right out of the box. FOrget oblivion, how am I supposed to do an overnight LW render on it?

I've left vista on overnight more than once and so far none of those lockups. Better video drivers I guess.

It almost seems my PC was designed to run Vista best and XP just okay.

Fausto
02-02-2007, 01:54 PM
great to hear that. I will be switching over sooner then. Probably when I hear everyone is not having any problems with LW/photoshop and so on.


Photoshop doesn't like the AERO ui, but it runs.. What I did was just turn off these features:

Disable visual themes
Disable desktop composition
Disable display scaling on high DPI settings

this is accomplished by right clicking on the executable and selecting properties/Compatibility

Works like a charm..

Some applications seem to be able to initialize this switch to a XP like UI entirely on their own..

LW works fine, MODO works fine, C4D works fine, VU works fine all with AERO.

Cheers,

iainbyoung
02-02-2007, 04:15 PM
Photoshop doesn't like the AERO ui, but it runs.. What I did was just turn off these features:

I'm running Photoshop CS2 on my Vista Ultimate install, with all of the Aero features / interface bits fully enabled, and it runs absolutely fine.

What problems were you seeing out of interest (sounds like it might be a display driver issue rather than a problem with CS2 or Vista itself).

Fausto
02-02-2007, 04:17 PM
I'm running Photoshop CS2 on my Vista Ultimate install, with all of the Aero features / interface bits fully enabled, and it runs absolutely fine.

What problems were you seeing out of interest (sounds like it might be a display driver issue rather than a problem with CS2 or Vista itself).
It runs ok on Vista Ultimate with my installation as well, but not as well as it does with the AERO turned off..

Perhaps it's a driver issue on this end.. What video card and driver are you running?

iainbyoung
02-02-2007, 04:23 PM
Looks similar to yours,

System Specs:

AMD 4800+
2x 512mb NVidia 7800GTX cards (in SLI mode)
2GB memory
2x 250GB Sata HD
1x 500GB Sata HD
1x 320GB USB HD
Vista Ultimate 64bit

The only difference I can see is that I'm running the latest nvidia drivers (100.59).

Note you can download these from nvidia, but you have to download them from the 8800 driver page. They've only updated the web page for the latest gfx card, but the 8800 package also contains new drivers for the 6/7/8 series cards as well.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x64_100.59.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_100.59.html

Fausto
02-02-2007, 04:27 PM
Looks similar to yours,

System Specs:

AMD 4800+
2x 512mb NVidia 7800GTX cards (in SLI mode)
2GB memory
2x 250GB Sata HD
1x 500GB Sata HD
1x 320GB USB HD
Vista Ultimate 64bit

The only difference I can see is that I'm running the latest nvidia drivers (100.59).

Note you can download these from nvidia, but you have to download them from the 8800 driver page. They've only updated the web page for the latest gfx card, but the 8800 package also contains new drivers for the 6/7/8 series cards as well.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x64_100.59.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_100.59.html


thanks, wow those drivers are coming fast and furious.. I just updated the 100.54 this morning.

rolfalm
02-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Looks similar to yours,

System Specs:

AMD 4800+
2x 512mb NVidia 7800GTX cards (in SLI mode)
2GB memory
2x 250GB Sata HD
1x 500GB Sata HD
1x 320GB USB HD
Vista Ultimate 64bit

The only difference I can see is that I'm running the latest nvidia drivers (100.59).

Note you can download these from nvidia, but you have to download them from the 8800 driver page. They've only updated the web page for the latest gfx card, but the 8800 package also contains new drivers for the 6/7/8 series cards as well.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x64_100.59.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_100.59.html

Just wanted to point out that your specs indicate another difference. You are running Vista Ulitmate 64bit, Fausto is running Vist Ultimate 32 bit.

iainbyoung
02-02-2007, 04:46 PM
Good spotting, I hadn't noticed that (it's getting late this side of the pond ;) )

hrgiger
02-02-2007, 05:20 PM
dear vista people

actually if mr. carmack is the master of open gl..we might consider his "hateful ideas" on vista..

i am really happy to read that he didnt choose to be silent against vista.

follow this link...a very good interview...

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200701/N07.0109.1737.15034.htm?Page=1/

he says..

"..They're artificially doing that by tying DX10 [DirectX 10] so close it, which is really nothing about the OS. It's a hardware-interface spec. It's an artificial thing that they're doing there.

"They're really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it."

short version here
http://www.dailytech.com/John+Carmack+Speaks+on+DX10+Vista+Xbox+360+PS3+Wii/article5665.htm

BEST

But what does this have to do with OpenGL in Vista?

Doctor49152
02-03-2007, 03:48 AM
Actually, OpenGL works a lot better in Vista than it did in XP. Keep in mind how goddarned awful OpenGL is in XP if you don't install proper drivers! Once you install drivers in both XP and Vista, things are peachy.

And where does one get the 'proper drivers'? in your videocard drivers from the manufacturers?

I'm running Vista Home Premium. I was holding off because I didn't see the need for it. Everything I can do in vista I can do in XP now I thought. Yes thats still true. But Vista seems so much snappier. I just ran some visual test (no times taken) and I could tell LW was rendering out faster.

The TCP/IP is AWESOME!!! I went from 400KB/s under XP to 1200 in Vista.

Also the file requesters are awesome. Image preview on the side of your selected file!! And you can add favorite locations to the otherside of the requester box.

And I've run into NO DRM problems. But I turned off that stupid 'Are you sure you want to do this' prompt. that was a waste of time.

jbarker
02-03-2007, 05:58 AM
I basically would like to know what version of Windows Vista most people are running right now? Ultimate, Home Premium, or whatever other version are available?

John

I just had a complete hard drive failure and since I have been using a non-bootable, training (makes it a pain to install) version of XP I decided to finally bite the bullet and upgrade.

I purchased Vista Home Premium and the only problem I've had so far, and it's a considerable one for this forum, is that after downloading LW v9 again and running the installer package - nothing happens :thumbsdow . I can't get LW installed as of now. Guess it's time to play everyone's favorite game: "Contact Support"

CAClark
02-03-2007, 06:02 AM
Your a step up from me, I can't even get Vista Business 64 to install!

jbarker
02-03-2007, 06:29 AM
I just had a complete hard drive failure and since I have been using a non-bootable, training (makes it a pain to install) version of XP I decided to finally bite the bullet and upgrade.

I purchased Vista Home Premium and the only problem I've had so far, and it's a considerable one for this forum, is that after downloading LW v9 again and running the installer package - nothing happens :thumbsdow . I can't get LW installed as of now. Guess it's time to play everyone's favorite game: "Contact Support"

Aha! This must be one of those handy Windows "features" :stumped:

I'm the only account on my spanking new Vista install and set up as administrator. However the LW installer wasn't running. I would launch the installer, get the standard "Run or Cancel" dialog, choose run - and nothing would happen.

After re-downloading the installer and doing a few other things to try and get it working I found that I had to right-click the installer and choose "Run as Administrator" (this I did not have to do with any of my other apps) to get it to install.

Ugh.

Captain Obvious
02-03-2007, 07:59 AM
And where does one get the 'proper drivers'? in your videocard drivers from the manufacturers?
My point was that with a default installation of XP, without the mfg's video card drivers, OpenGL doesn't even work. Most games and 3D apps won't even run. Even actual GUI performance in Windows is downright horrible. In Vista, as far as I've heard, it's not as bad without the mfg's drivers. But it's just something i heard. :p

mj418
02-03-2007, 08:52 AM
I have a friend who bought Vista just yesterday, so I went over to see it in action.

"Inaction" would be a better way to describe this particular Vista Experience, because it would only get so far in the "copying files" stage, and then report an error that it couldn't continue.

After about 10 tries, it got a bit dull. :D

CAClark
02-03-2007, 09:11 AM
I have installed Business64 Vista, and it installs, but after it does it's first boot, it hangs on a black screen. I have read that it is to do with the nForce4 boards (mine is an Asus A8N-E), but no-one seems to be able to offer an explanation or fix, only opinionated uninformed rambles.

Has anyone here managed to install on an nforce4 board? If so, how?

Cheers!

Animapper
02-03-2007, 04:12 PM
I'm running Windows Vista Ultimate 32 on one dell laptop and 64 bit on a mac pro. Looking forward to the sentinel driver support soon so we can run LW.

Regards,

lots
02-04-2007, 09:57 AM
My point was that with a default installation of XP, without the mfg's video card drivers, OpenGL doesn't even work. Most games and 3D apps won't even run. Even actual GUI performance in Windows is downright horrible. In Vista, as far as I've heard, it's not as bad without the mfg's drivers. But it's just something i heard. :p

This is because the drivers for the hardware didn't come on the XP CD. A fresh copy of XP will use a generic driver that works on all video cards. This driver does not have any specific support, except to allow you to view the basic windows. Vista, as far as I know, comes with a larger collection of drivers (DVD as opposed to CD, so there's more space). So out of the box, Vista should support a wider range of hardware (not just video cards, but everything). This is important, since to use Areo, you need to have the proper drivers installed (ones that give you access to the fancy features of the graphics card).

Also the OpenGL performance in Vista is now the sole responsibility of the graphics card manufacturer, unlike in XP. So until the drivers settle, I expect the performance to be a little lacking in comparison to XP, in terms of OpenGL performance.

Personally, the only attractive part of Vista, to me, is DX10. And since most games are not yet requiring DX10, I dont see my self moving up to Vista any time soon. Areo's pretty effects are sub par compared to other UI's I've come across.

radams
02-04-2007, 10:34 AM
I have installed Business64 Vista, and it installs, but after it does it's first boot, it hangs on a black screen. I have read that it is to do with the nForce4 boards (mine is an Asus A8N-E), but no-one seems to be able to offer an explanation or fix, only opinionated uninformed rambles.

Has anyone here managed to install on an nforce4 board? If so, how?

Cheers!

Hi Craig,

Has Framestore stated when & if they are going to Vista ?

The back bone there is Linux isn't it ?

Nvidia has a list of Nforce products that will work with Vista listed on their website...you may wish to give them a look see.

Cheers,