PDA

View Full Version : OT: My fav Vista reviews...



jeremyhardin
01-31-2007, 11:54 AM
Vista: Not an OSX ripoff (http://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=a718aabc2:10f94bddcd1:5b60&st=1166436326648&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=9&fr=121806_045902_718aabc2x10f94bddcd1x3541&rdm=125365.37559952837)
Vista's legal fine print raises red flags (http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/175801)
Uninspiring Vista (http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/17992/page1)
The 5 sins of Vista (http://www.intelliadmin.com/blog/2007/01/5-sins-of-vista.html)
Vista's pretty, but it's a shameless Mac OS X imitator (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/living/16555680.htm)
Review: Mac OS X Shines In Comparison With Windows Vista (http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196800670&pgno=1&queryText=)

I also shared these on my personal myspace blog (http://blog.myspace.com/jeremyhardin), accompanied by some angry ranting. :D

jeremyhardin
01-31-2007, 12:17 PM
BTW, that first link was apparently date sensitive (AND THE EDIT LIMIT HERE IS RIDICULOUSLY SHORT)...
So use this one:
Vista: Not an OSX ripoff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT6YO30GhmQ)

Scazzino
01-31-2007, 12:47 PM
Priceless! ;)

shrox
01-31-2007, 12:55 PM
I always turn all the "cool stuff" off. I don't want to wait for a rollout effect with a whoosh sound, I want the menu as soon as my cursor touches it.

gatz
01-31-2007, 01:02 PM
These vids had my favorite Vista "features."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n74mktpenx8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBz_yf7N6dU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9kaKePqMM

gerry_g
01-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Sounds like Bill has finally figured out 'where he'd like to go today', trouble is the rest of us figured it out long ago..........now where are those bloody quad Macs I'm dieing to upgrade

mike_stening
01-31-2007, 04:05 PM
i read the review of vista posted on the apple site today, and while it essentialy said that what microshaft had come up with was an OSx clone, and not a great one either, it still angered me. ok so apple bought the idea of windows off xerox (think thats right) along with the idea for the 'mouse'. and somehow M$ got the rights to using windows from apple but after that there was a gap between the 2. then OSX came out and lo and behold Xp looks very familiar, then OS X goes on a yearly upgrade and invation cycle then M$ bring out something that is so blatantly a rip off but it's all ok.
vista only has one thing going for it from what i have read and that is to record tv on it, woopee doo, vcrs have been round for years and then dvd recorders.
i'm sorry but unless they can be more orginal and come up with their own stuff then i hope they crash and burn.:devil:

rant over

gatz
01-31-2007, 06:53 PM
vista only has one thing going for it from what i have read and that is to record tv on it, woopee doo, vcrs have been round for years and then dvd recorders.

While the feature itself isn't that impressive. The legal gymnastics required to make it happen are. MacTV is pathetic because it isn't what it should be, but what the lawyers would allow it to be. Basically it's a bridge to permit the use of material you already own in your living room. We wouldn't even need this "bridge" if DRM wasn't so out of hand. It's my understanding that Vista has thoroughly entrenched DRM. So it will be fun to see how the public reacts to this when content starts to surface in Vista only formats and strings attached.

Between the turmoil MS will create in audio/video and the new web "standards" they're pushing Vista strikes me as more scary than cool.

Jim_C
01-31-2007, 07:04 PM
vista only has one thing going for it from what i have read and that is to record tv on it, woopee doo, vcrs have been round for years and then dvd recorders.


Snapstream does this perfectly with it's software called BeyondTV. All the joys(and more) of TiVO using your computer with no DRM and no monthly fees.

Shows recorded with Beyond can be watched on any networked computer wired or wireless and it can autoshrink your mpeg2 full res show to a wmv(or other) for viewing anywhere with a net connection. <GREAT for waiting in airports and catching up on 24>

You can also remotely log on, change channels and watch live wmv streams of anything currently on.

Anyway sorry for the wander....

Ryhnio
01-31-2007, 07:24 PM
So I went to Circuit City this evening to look for Wiis and decided to play around with Vista. When I did a serach in the help menu for "OS X" it brings up a few hits one of them being "How do I know which version of Vista I have?"

Ha!

-Ryhnio

Kuzey
02-01-2007, 07:05 AM
They reviewed it on bbc news the other day and they guy from click was talking about this great new feature, you start typing something in the search box and it starts searching for it even before you completed typing...I wish we had that :D

And the best bit was the guy didn't even mention anything about Mac OS X...loads of fun :thumbsup:

Also, there are emails floating around from the vista developers talking how cool OS X is and they can't complete, this was in 2004.

Kuzey

John the Geek
02-01-2007, 11:48 AM
ok so apple bought the idea of windows off xerox (think thats right) along with the idea for the 'mouse'. and somehow M$ got the rights to using windows from apple but after that there was a gap between the 2. then OSX came out and lo and behold Xp looks very familiar, then OS X goes on a yearly upgrade and invation cycle then M$ bring out something that is so blatantly a rip off but it's all ok.

1.) It's my understanding that Apple hired many of the Xerox Palo Alto developers (people like Jeff Raskin) after Xerox decided not to pursue it. So they really were the first company to produce it, and the folks who invented it were also working for Apple at that time.

2.) Windows 95 was the legal argument (not XP) because it stole the concept of a Trash Can and Desktop directory you could save files to, etc... right from the Mac OS.

BaseZero
02-01-2007, 12:10 PM
Just saw the David Pogue video… absolutely hilarious!!

What's even funnier is the Windows fans in the comments section battling fiercely to defend their beloved (and somewhat busted I hear) operating system even to the point of calling DP ridiculous names…

We develop websites as part of our services and have Windows XP running via Parallels for checking and rechecking the systems and sites we develop. I can't tell you how much and how many times that what we develop has to be re-developed and tweaked and re-written to display and operate correctly within the Windows environment.

Keep up the great work Microsoft! We charge by the hour!

(And to all the MS fans…*keep up the good fight!!)

shrox
02-01-2007, 12:53 PM
The movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley" is a great story about the evolution of Mircosoft and Apple. Bill Gates really burned Steve Jobs, Xerox and IBM just dropped the ball becuase they didn't understand what was happening.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 01:27 PM
yep, im still buying vista. the worst part about macs and its os? the users.

they need to chill out and just be content being a tiny fraction of the market running a tiny fraction of the software. and be grateful that apple finally decided to ripoff the windows/pc hardware and offer a real computer for once. oh and i hope mac users are happy with their grass 3D chessboard, while i enjoy half-life1,2 battlefield, soldier of fortune etc etc

its nice how macs have finally gotten the right click functionality... or shall i say ripped it offf. and stole the whole windows/ui concept in the first place. but its cool. afterall its just software right? who cares.

jeremyhardin
02-01-2007, 01:35 PM
yep, im still buying vista. the worst part about macs and its os? the users.

they need to chill out and just be content being a tiny fraction of the market running a tiny fraction of the software. and be grateful that apple finally decided to ripoff the windows/pc hardware and offer a real computer for once. oh and i hope mac users are happy with their grass 3D chessboard, while i enjoy half-life1,2 battlefield, soldier of fortune etc etc

its nice how macs have finally gotten the right click functionality... or shall i say ripped it offf. and stole the whole windows/ui concept in the first place. but its cool. afterall its just software right? who cares.

I love when people come into a mac board and blanketly disrespect mac users. It's awesome.

The difference between you and I in this situation is that I'm pissed at Bill Gates and his *****-kissing lackey corporations. Not the poor users that are forced into DRM/Spyware/Virus ridden software. It comes on most computers, so I don't bash Windows users. I pity them for being stuck with half-a$$ed implementions of years-old "revolutionary" features. Enjoy HD-DVD and Blu-Ray at forced lowered quality, and microsoft checking your machine and validating your software from time to time.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 01:39 PM
the funniest part about that vid (the top link) was all the dense mac users who completely missed the sarcasm HAHAHAHAHA. but then again, you cant expect much from users of computers tailored for idiots... (jk jk). :)


I love when people come into a mac board and blanketly disrespect mac users. It's awesome.

The difference between you and I in this situation is that I'm pissed at Bill Gates and his *****-kissing lackey corporations. Not the poor users that are forced into DRM/Spyware/Virus ridden software. It comes on most computers, so I don't bash Windows users. I pity them for being stuck with half-a$$ed implementions of years-old "revolutionary" features. Enjoy HD-DVD and Blu-Ray at forced lowered quality, and microsoft checking your machine and validating your software from time to time.

hey i dont see any respect for PC users on mac forums.. so dont expect any from us! everything about macs, even the marketing, disrespects pcs and their users. DRM>??? hello... itunes...

like the saying goes, insult a PC no one bats an eye, criticise a mac and all the mac users cry me a river... HAHAHAHAH i just love pushing their buttons. its so easy.

and no one forced me anything, i bought windows xp and ill buy vista. I dont like losing the ability to use 90% of my software and join the tiny minority of whiny fanatics...

Chilton
02-01-2007, 01:56 PM
its nice how macs have finally gotten the right click functionality... or shall i say ripped it offf.

That reminds me, there's a nice surprise for MightyMouse and trackpad users in the UB version.

And yes, it could be a candidate for the Windows version, but I suspect that would really depend on Microsoft standardizing on mousewheel behavior, and for the laptop hardware manufacturers to fall in line with the mouse manufacturers.

-Chilton

Stooch
02-01-2007, 01:56 PM
anyway. you guys are happy posting up youtube digs at microsoft but its oh so convenient to forget this little fact...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY&mode=related&search=


dont bite the hand that fed you :)

jeremyhardin
02-01-2007, 02:00 PM
hey i dont see any respect for PC users on mac forums.. Follow through with that logic Stooch. You don't see any respect for PC users on Mac forums, so the reciprocal of that would be not giving any respect to Mac users on PC forums. Notice where I posted this. I didn't go to a Celtic game wearing Rangers gear. I took my post to my fellow Mac users.


like the saying goes, insult a PC no one bats an eye, criticise a mac and all the mac users cry me a river...Ah but you didn't critisize a mac. You criticized the people using them (unlike my original post). Again that's the difference. Surprised that you got a reaction? Jeez, you must by a psych major. Insult people and they respond.


...minority of whiny fanatics...Yeah, I think I covered this already. I insult Bill Gates and Windows. You insult me (and us). Way to go. You're great.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 02:07 PM
yeah right. ive gotten so much flak from mac users you wouldnt believe. especially in the mograph business. anytime i ever argue with a mac user, im always doing so with a smile and say everything tongue in cheek. but the mac user is always the one thats foaming at the mouth and has red, teary eyes ... mac users dont insult pc users??? PUHLEEEAASE.

mac advertising campaign? pc users are boring workers with 0 creativity. mac users are brilliant artists who can do more then pc users... the new ad campaigns with the pc/vs mac guys... funny stereotype huh? ever see a windows ad that pokes fun at mac users? no need... macs are the worlds fastest supercomputers... that decided to use pc hardware... lol anyway i thought id share my POV and im very eager for my copy of vista :thumbsup:

jeremyhardin
02-01-2007, 02:17 PM
yeah right. ive gotten so much flak from mac users you wouldnt believe. especially in the mograph business. anytime i ever argue with a mac user, im always doing so with a smile and say everything tongue in cheek. but the mac user is always the one thats foaming at the mouth and has red, teary eyes ... mac users dont insult pc users??? PUHLEEEAASE.

mac advertising campaign? pc users are boring workers with 0 creativity. mac users are brilliant artists who can do more then pc users... the new ad campaigns with the pc/vs mac guys... funny stereotype huh? ever see a windows ad that pokes fun at mac users? no need... macs are the worlds fastest supercomputers... that decided to use pc hardware... lol anyway i thought id share my POV and im very eager for my copy of vista :thumbsup:

Oh, you martyr. Poor you. Suffering at the hands of all us mac users. Whatever you need to sleep at night man. I look at this thread, and I see one person insulting others. And it would appear you came here to do just that considering it started in your very first post in this thread.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 02:20 PM
why are you feeling sorry for me? im the one laughing hahaah.

next product from apple? iTissues

matix
02-01-2007, 02:37 PM
yep, im still buying vista. the worst part about macs and its os? the users.

they need to chill out and just be content being a tiny fraction of the market running a tiny fraction of the software. and be grateful that apple finally decided to ripoff the windows/pc hardware and offer a real computer for once. oh and i hope mac users are happy with their grass 3D chessboard, while i enjoy half-life1,2 battlefield, soldier of fortune etc etc

its nice how macs have finally gotten the right click functionality... or shall i say ripped it offf. and stole the whole windows/ui concept in the first place. but its cool. afterall its just software right? who cares.


I second that.

Kurtis
02-01-2007, 02:41 PM
Ok folks. I think we know where everyone in this thread stands on the PC vs. Mac issue. Let's try to keep it civil, please.

I don't care what OS you use, as long as you buy LightWave, :hey: but seriously this is just software. I really don't understand why there needs to be such a level of frenzy over one vs the other. Use the one you like and move on. Life is much too short.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 02:43 PM
ok sorry im done.

matix
02-01-2007, 02:47 PM
ok sorry im done.


me too. =-D

shrox
02-01-2007, 03:07 PM
Neither Vista or OS X will run on my Tandy from Radio Shack. What's wrong? I hope the 5-1/4" drive is OK...

Glendalough
02-01-2007, 03:38 PM
I've always used Macs but I must say that the advertised image they try to project is both embarrassing and odious. It's really the last thing that's needed.

To encourage people to buy a product for (pseudo) elitist motives is not commendable whatever.

Bill Gates has done amazing things for the third world unlike most rich people nowadays.

Windows Vista really is something else, but Macintosh users better beware, when the drop down menu in iTunes says "Shop for iTunes Products" The Writing is on the Wall!

Stooch
02-01-2007, 04:15 PM
yep. i hear alot of negative things bout billy. but you gotta admit, the guy has given ALOT to charity and has done alot of good for the world. you could try to say that well, he is rich so its just a drop in the bucket for him, but how many people do you know that donate the kind of money he does? Alot of things in the pc/mac world are so similar functionally that its easy to say its a ripoff. IE a calendar is a calender - is a calendar. chances are they are going to look similar. Why does some jackass have to make a video about it? (a mac user btw)

a chess game that is in 3D is...well... going to look like any other chess game in 3D. A search function searches the computer... both vista and macos benefit from it. So they work similarly, which is common sense..what do you expect it to do? do you want it to work differently just for the sake of being different? There are so many things an OS should have that its really pointless and childish to try to find "ripoffs". I am so used to seeing mac users jump at any excuse to bash windows or microsoft that my response is almost pre-programmed.

anyway im done arguing about it, because it serves no purpose, and to be honest, this entire thread serves no purpose. yeah vista has alot of similar things as mac-os. yes we can sit here and argue for hours about who stole from whom. If anything, I think that linux people have the most to brag about, alot of the things they invented are being popularised by both macs and pcs. The reason why i always pick on the mac USERS and not apple, is because its the USERS that start this crap. There is no point b|tching to apple...

im sure alot of mac users can give me an example of how a mac is superior to a PC but i can always come back and point out how a pc has something superior to a mac. I feel that this thread was unjustified and i came in swinging, so I apologize to mac users but i want to point out that its usually the mac users who are unreasonable towards the PC users or microsoft because it seems to me that its "in vogue". Not because there is actually some kind of merit...

whats next? are we going to argue that MAC or PCs stole the idea of using a mouse? yes they did... from xerox... so what? the gui? xerox...

jeremyhardin
02-01-2007, 05:05 PM
...and to be honest, this entire thread serves no purpose.
...
I feel that this thread was unjustified...
I would disagree with this, as the purpose of this thread was stated right in the subject. My favorite something. That's right. This thread was off topic and threw it out there right from the start. And it was my opinion. That was the purpose. If you had read the subject line, you would have know it's purpose and justification.

You got a different opinion? Fine. Start your own thread or come here without bashing people that are sharing their opinions. Even share your own opinions. I don't care. But just like you get sick of mac users being condesending and insulting, I get sick of pc users who come out swinging when someone has an opinion on an OS. Particularly when personal attacks are thrown about without provocation.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 05:49 PM
lol i dont have to start a thread to disagree with you... but im done :)

jeremyhardin
02-01-2007, 05:56 PM
Start your own thread or come here without bashing people that are sharing their opinions. Even share your own opinions. I don't care.

Well I actually suggested another alternative (in case you didn't notice). But due to your decision to stop participating, I suppose that coming here and not bashing people is just as undesireable as starting your own thread.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 05:58 PM
I did share my oppinion without insulting. infact i apologized but you chose to ignore it so its your problem imo.

jeremyhardin
02-01-2007, 06:08 PM
I did share my oppinion without insulting.
Really?

...the worst part about macs and its os? the users...
...
...the funniest part about that vid (the top link) was all the dense mac users who completely missed the sarcasm...
...
...whiny fanatics...


infact i apologized but you chose to ignore it so its your problem imo.
If you shared your opinion without insulting, what did you have to apologize for?

Backpedal all you want. The very short edit time limit that we were both complaining about earlier condemns you. Maybe that's why you apologised.

But I'll make this all ok. I'll add...
(jk jk) :)

Stooch
02-01-2007, 06:22 PM
jk jk. :)


im not back pedaling, i feel that im right and you are wrong, so dont try to give me a guilt trip, I have given more valid points then you did and just beacuse i didnt deliver those points in the way you like doesnt make me wrong. now have fun giving your useless opinions on why you think windows and MS is evil. we all know you are biased and why you made this thread to begin with. :) im just here as a counterweight and have reason on my side.

as far as feeling all butthurt over my views, in the words of mr timberlake: CRY ME A RIIIIVER!

Lamont
02-01-2007, 06:25 PM
Why are you guys trying to make up? FIGHT!!!

John the Geek
02-01-2007, 06:37 PM
Vista blows. I've been messing with it off and on since early beta and it's enough to make me keep Winblows XP around for those painful times I do have to use a Pee Cee only program.

I though it might be more Mac-like since it looks like a Mac, but it still smells like Windows under it's armpits.

=)

Chilton
02-01-2007, 06:42 PM
Sometimes I wish Apple had completed Copland.

Stooch
02-01-2007, 06:46 PM
Vista blows. I've been messing with it off and on since early beta and it's enough to make me keep Winblows XP around for those painful times I do have to use a Pee Cee only program.

I though it might be more Mac-like since it looks like a Mac, but it still smells like Windows under it's armpits.

=)

cool, thanks for giving us a an opinion based on actual experience :) its really rare to see that on mac forums :thumbsup:

Although to be fair, id like to point out that mac os sux based off my experience as well.. But its cool. No need to make a video about it hahah. Afterall, its a pretty tall order to expect apple to better something so awesome and dominant as windows xp. its such a perfect program (used by pure geniuses) that i get constant orgasms each second i spend touching my 3 button mouse... ( Im worried that if i use a mac ill develop a lisp and a limp wrist as well ).

Although i am jealous of how no decent virus writer gives enough of a crap to write a virus for it. but then again, why target something that 5% of users would get affected by right?

haha, im just kidding at this point.

Chilton
02-01-2007, 06:56 PM
The reason I wish they had completed Copland was the hoard of UI concepts that never made it into the OS, which would have been somewhat revolutionary.

For example, true 3D user interfaces, a well conceived search system (unlike what we have in Spotlight or Vista), support for 'Deep Mask' skins (like Dashboard, but throughout the OS), better font management, a lower-level 3D system, ugh...

But hey, we call those 3rd party opportunities now, right? And OSX isn't too shabby itself these days.

I have high hopes for those top secret features in Leopard.

-Chilton

Darth Mole
02-02-2007, 12:39 AM
Well I'm a rabid Mac user - I mean, I've used Macs exclusively at work and home for about 15 years, I don't actually have rabies - and I have to say I think Vista is pretty sweet. I wish Exposť had that 3D-scrolly thing going on (how about turning on Coverflow for open windows?). And it's easily the most appealing Windows OS ever. So I think the amount of Vista-bashing that's gone on, especially from the Mac quarter, is a bit unjustified. After all, OS X is now 5 years old (?) and it doesn't feel like it's changed dramatically (or at least visually) for some time. I'll be really interested to see what secrets Leopard has in store for us - I wonder if Cupertino's photocopiers are running hot as we speak...?

jeremyhardin
02-02-2007, 01:16 AM
jk jk. :)


im not back pedaling, i feel that im right and you are wrong, so dont try to give me a guilt trip, I have given more valid points then you did and just beacuse i didnt deliver those points in the way you like doesnt make me wrong. now have fun giving your useless opinions on why you think windows and MS is evil. we all know you are biased and why you made this thread to begin with. :) im just here as a counterweight and have reason on my side.

as far as feeling all butthurt over my views, in the words of mr timberlake: CRY ME A RIIIIVER!

Haha. Made the edit time timit on this one didn't you, Stooch? :D :D I liked the other one better. Hehe.

Drop me a line if you end up in London, man. Pint(s) on me.:beerchug:

dsol
02-02-2007, 07:06 AM
I have to say I think Vista is pretty sweet. I wish Exposť had that 3D-scrolly thing going on (how about turning on Coverflow for open windows?).

Yeah, it does look real purdy - but the 3D stacked windows are nowhere near as practical (in terms of finding the window you need) as the way expose displays all open windows. I'm really hoping the next version of expose in 10.5 uses bilinear filtering to improve it visually, but using a stacked 3D look (which would be fairly trivial for Apple to build into expose if they wished - OSX has had an OpenGL-based desktop since 10.2) is something I don't think would really help anyone's workflow.

The coverflow concept might work better as a refinement of the existing apple + tab app selection method - or at least a way of pretty-ing up!


After all, OS X is now 5 years old (?) and it doesn't feel like it's changed dramatically (or at least visually) for some time.
Wha... Did you even use version 10.0 or 10.1 of OSX? In 5 years, OSX has undergone a transformation from a sluggish, incompatible, feature-limited OS to what is - IMHO - the slickest desktop OS on the planet. That's a pretty significant achievement. And sure, there's still a lot of things that could be done to improve it - Dock, I'm looking at you! - it's **** good. One of the PC's in the office I'm in at the moment is running Vista. It's prettier than XP's naively styled 80's edutainment look (colorful but kiddy) - but like XP it lacks a cohesive style. Different areas of the OS and it's built-in apps and utils are frequently inconsistent, both in visual and usability terms. A dog's dinner, so to speak. And it still uses drive letters to label devices (including removable storage) which was a bad idea in 1980s and is ludicrous now.

Now having said all that, at some point I probably will upgrade my home PC to run vista... but only to play the handful of PC-only kickass games that I can't get on PS3 or X360. Crysis just looks too amazing to pass up. But for working and making money, OSX ain't going to be displaced from MY desktop :)

dsol
02-02-2007, 07:19 AM
its nice how macs have finally gotten the right click functionality... or shall i say ripped it offf. and stole the whole windows/ui concept in the first place. but its cool. afterall its just software right? who cares.

Hmmm... actually I believe right-clicking to bring up submenus was actually a concept created by Dale Luck on the Amiga team when he was creating Intuition. He patented it too.

Microsoft, as far as I can tell, haven't invented one revolutionary or even original concept in their existence. You know they bought DOS off another company, right? ;)

John the Geek
02-02-2007, 07:55 AM
What's funny to me is it's almost impossible to find anything that Microsoft pioneered. Apple was the first company to ship a mouse, the first to ship an internal 3.5" floppy, the first commercial GUI, they were the first to use a touchpad instead of a trackball on a laptop, the first to finally ditch the floppy altogether, the first laptops to go wireless. They have always supported LAN plug-and-play networking capability with both AppleTalk and Ethernet.

Unix was the first OS to support multiple users, the command prompt, directory structure, the internet and local networking were all invented in Unix.

Windows pioneered what? I'm at a loss.

EDIT: Even the CTRL ALT DEL sequence was invented by IBM... even though Microsoft needed it a whole lot.

mike_stening
02-02-2007, 08:51 AM
Windows pioneered what? I'm at a loss.
.

virus's?:D

Stooch
02-02-2007, 08:55 AM
What's funny to me is it's almost impossible to find anything that Microsoft pioneered. Apple was the first company to STEAL A MOUSE FROM XEROXS, the first to ship an internal 3.5" floppy BS internal floppies were available to system integrators before mac ever shipped it, the first TO STEAL A GUI FROM XEROX, they were the first to use a touchpad instead of a trackball on a laptop, (what about being the first to use a trackball? being selective arent we? Touchpad were hated btw for shocking their users..) the first to finally ditch the floppy altogether (wrong, there were many custom pcs built by users that ditched the floppy way before macs, but you wouldnt know anything about building custom pcs would you?), the first laptops to go wireless (wireless hardware was first available for PCs from the start). They have always supported LAN plug-and-play networking capability with both AppleTalk and Ethernet (???? you need to learn more about pcs).

Unix was the first OS to support multiple users, the command prompt, directory structure, the internet and local networking were all invented in Unix. And MAC os used unix as their core, so where si the inventiveness you speak of?

Windows pioneered what? I'm at a loss. Of course you are, you are a mac user.

EDIT: Even the CTRL ALT DEL sequence was invented by IBM... even though Microsoft needed it a whole lot. yet again, wrong and uncalled for generalization on your side. I have personally had more crashes on MAC OS then on any of my windows installations. You seem to be happy to tout windows instability but im at a loss as to how you are so familiar about instability of an os you hate and refuse to even use day to day. this line of arguments illustrates to anyone who knows anything about pcs your fanatic basis for your arguments...

you will never find microsoft pioneer anything because you dont want to find it. Microsoft has done something mac has never been able to do. They allow their os to work on the infinite combinations of hardware configurations that are PCs. Allowing their users to build and customise with the kind of creativity and freedom no mac user has ever treated their computer with. Microsoft has been an enabler for many 3D artists and system builders to tailor custom solutions. Microsoft is freedom for its users rather then forcing everyone to the same hardware and monopolizing the upgrade options for its users. Your post shows typical machead bias that refuses to give credit but is more then willing to take it. The elitism you are so happy to exude doesnt even belong to you, why are you so proud of the achievements of others and so willing to cram these questionable achievements down peoples throats - who are very happy with their current solutions and simply dont share your opinion? A typical mac user i have had the pleasure fo meeting doesnt know squat about the inner workings of their computers and are more concerned with the superficial aspects that have traditionally driven macs price up. It is only now that pc hardware is finaly being used to power the worlds "personal supercomputers" (a marketing ploy that worked on the ignorant) that the prices are reasonable.... for a pc user to buy and ditch mac os in favor of windows...

I have used macs professionally for a year and have had experience with the OS enough to know what it lacks. I do not feel the urge to make movies about how much mac os sucks and cram my unwanted opinion down the throats of others. But if you want to argue about it, i am more then willing to indulge - afterall it is fun to argue when the facts are on your side...

mike_stening
02-02-2007, 09:06 AM
the mouse was bought from xerox as the board there did not think anyone would use it, especially as it waas called a mouse.
the GUI was also bought from xerox and these were done legitimately

track ball thingy whatever....
yes admittedly the pc was the first to have wireless hardware, it was called a house brick :neener:

as for stability between the two, yes i really dislike windows, but i do have one at home as my wife uses it for uni, getting things to work on it is a nightmare, never had a problem on a mac, it freezes alot, it starts things up even when you dont want them to, it also starts itself up when you shut it down, and yes it does have firewall and virus protection etc etc, at the end of the day it is a pain, you even have to wait 10mins for it to fully start up, ok not much ram but it is a 3ghz P4 show it shouldn't be a slowch:bangwall: :twak:

the achievments we are talking about belong to the people who created it, not us and certainly not the ones who baltantly rip it off and called it revolutionary.

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:09 AM
the mouse was not invented by mac os. period. same goes for GUI. you claimed that mac invented it and you are wrong. end of story.

the issues you describe that your wife had are the fault of your wife. i recommend mac os to people who do not know a thing about computers and who do not use it outside of word processing or browsing the internet because mac os is more idiot proof - hence it is more effective in the hands of idiots. My computer runs 24/7 for months at a time with 0 crashes, instabilities or slowdowns. I tried to use mac os as a 3D platform for my art and i have to say that no amount of experience and willingness to compromise have resulted in a workable solution. The lack of support made the problem even worse, hence my choice to use windows as my platform. I have no problems giving mac os credit and even admire some aspects of it. but thats what separates fanatics from power users.

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:13 AM
the achievments we are talking about belong to the people who created it, not us and certainly not the ones who baltantly rip it off and called it revolutionary.

i agree with this statement whole heartedly and only wish that more mac users actually applied this concept TO THEMSELVES before opening their mouth upon others.

mike_stening
02-02-2007, 09:13 AM
ok i can take childish jibes at myself or other people on here but what **** do you know about my wife?
then you go on to essentially say that my wife is an idiot. wtf??? who do you think you are exactly, you seem to have far too much time to spend in a forum that has nothing to do with you in the first place, if you don't like macs and don't use them then stay out.
i'm sure you would not say any of this to my face but you have crossed a line here.

John the Geek
02-02-2007, 09:17 AM
you will never find microsoft pioneer anything because you dont want to find it.

Actually I was asking, and you provided nothing but a cry/rant about me. Would you like to provide something that Microsoft pioneered? I thought about it for quite a while, but came up with nothing.

Apple never stole anything from Xerox, aside from the employees at PARC, whose inventions were going unused. They came to work at Apple and the GUI and Mouse were finally realized.

Apple shipped built-in 802.11 in 1998 / 99. It was quite a big deal. YEARS before ANY PC manufacturer did. Those things weren't standard in PC laptops until 2003/04. Before that time you needed PCMCIA cards to add those features.

Ethernet was not built-in to standard PCs until after 2000 as well. You had to add a PCI NIC for both a modem and a LAN. How many Intel 486 motherboards had a NIC onboard? A modem? Macs had them built-in many years before then.

Apple was NOT the first to ship a trackball. That's why I didn't mention it.

You are clearly a troll. I know a great deal about PCs, and I wasn't referring to the plain boxes people build themselves. I'm comparing Apple to their counterparts. COMPANIES who built PCs. If you want to debate me then dig up some credibility and facts and stop whining.

-John

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:19 AM
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/idiot-proof

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:21 AM
Actually I was asking, and you provided nothing but a cry/rant about me. Would you like to provide something that Microsoft pioneered? I thought about it for quite a while, but came up with nothing.

Apple never stole anything from Xerox, aside from the employees at PARC, whose inventions were going unused. They came to work at Apple and the GUI and Mouse were finally realized.

Apple shipped built-in 802.11 in 1998 / 99. It was quite a big deal. YEARS before ANY PC manufacturer did. Those things weren't standard in PC laptops until 2003/04. Before that time you needed PCMCIA cards to add those features.

Ethernet was not built-in to standard PCs until after 2000 as well. You had to add a PCI NIC for both a modem and a LAN. How many Intel 486 motherboards had a NIC onboard? A modem? Macs had them built-in many years before then.

Apple was NOT the first to ship a trackball. That's why I didn't mention it.

You are clearly a troll. I know a great deal about PCs, and I wasn't referring to the plain boxes people build themselves. I'm comparing Apple to their counterparts. COMPANIES who built PCs. If you want to debate me then dig up some credibility and facts and stop whining.

-John

the fact is that YOU CAN add any peripheral you want to your PC and it will be supported by windows OS. The fact taht mac os gains much of its "stability" because they refuse to support any hardware they do not have a monopoly on. I have stated very clearly that this is the single most important contribution windows has given to the entire computer industry, breeding innovation and reducing the price for hardware that makes up 90% of your mac. You clearly cannot fathom this line of thought because you dont know enough about computers to build them from scratch like i do.

as far as crying, you are wrong again. I am laughing as i make this post. I have a smirk on my face right now and find your weak arguments ignorant and grasping for straws. You are ignoring key points and spinning facts into your favor with blind fanaticism. like i said, you will not understand unless you want to understand.

John the Geek
02-02-2007, 09:22 AM
the mouse was not invented by mac os. period. same goes for GUI. you claimed that mac invented it and you are wrong. end of story.
Correct. Mac OS is software, and therefore is incapable of inventing anything. Also true of the Mac, which is just a machine and incapable of inventing anything. That's the most true statement you have made yet in this thread.

But Apple employees (Former Xerox employees) did invent those things. And Apple gets to take credit for that.

dglidden
02-02-2007, 09:22 AM
Stooch: you are an idiot. Please go away and stop s**tting up this forum.

John the Geek
02-02-2007, 09:25 AM
the fact is that YOU CAN add any peripheral you want to your PC and it will be supported by windows OS. The fact taht mac os gains much of its "stability" because they refuse to support any hardware they do not have a monopoly on. I have stated very clearly this this is the single most important contribution windows has given to the entire computer industry, breeding innovation and reducing the price for hardware that makes up 90% of your mac. You clearly cannot fathom this line of thought because you dont know enough about computers to build them from scratch like i do.

True, Microsoft's open platform allowing every Tom, Dick, or Harry to write a device driver did lead to a boom in peripherals, I'll grant you that. But there are many people who also feel that fact is why Windows performs so poorly under certain configurations. The whole point of Microsoft pushing signed drivers.

Contribution, yes. But also a crutch.

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:25 AM
Stooch: you are an idiot. Please go away and stop s**tting up this forum.

your post displays your mental feebleness more then anything i can post.

then again, expecting more from you would give you too much credit.

mike_stening
02-02-2007, 09:27 AM
:bangwall:

dglidden
02-02-2007, 09:28 AM
your post displays your mental feebleness more then anything i can post.

then again, expecting more from you would give you too much credit.

Please mention Hitler next so we can all go home.

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:28 AM
True, Microsoft's open platform allowing every Tom, Dick, or Harry to write a device driver did lead to a boom in peripherals, I'll grant you that. But there are many people who also feel that fact is why Windows performs so poorly under certain configurations. The whole point of Microsoft pushing signed drivers.

Contribution, yes. But also a crutch.

same can be said about the mac os refusing to support many innovative and desireable peripherals. you are more then happy to ignore that fact arent you? Why is this a crutch by the way ? I just made it very clear that my pc is rock stable, more so then any mac i have ever used for 3D art. so how is this a crutch? To me its a huge advantage and it breed innovation rather then monopoly. this is exactly why microsoft is number 1. they allow anyone to create and enhance pcs. it is the single most important driving force for innovation, and many of the things you claimed as inventions are actually adaptations from the pc world.

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:29 AM
Please mention Hitler next so we can all go home.

Steve Jobs.

Chilton
02-02-2007, 09:32 AM
Hi,

EVERYONE KNOCK IT OFF OR YOU WILL FEEL THE WRATH OF THE KURTIS.

You have been warned.

-Chilton

John the Geek
02-02-2007, 09:35 AM
same can be said about the mac os refusing to support many innovative and desireable peripherals. you are more then happy to ignore that fact arent you?

If we were playing cards, you just showed me your hand, and it looks bad.

Go buy a digital camera. ANY digital camera. Plug it into your PC. Install drivers, of course. Plug it into your Mac. There it is. No drivers needed. Quite a few Mac peripherals are like this. Printers? Many just install and configure themselves the moment you plug them in. 3 seconds later you are printing already without doing ANYTHING.


Why is this a crutch by the way ? I just made it very clear that my pc is rock stable, more so then any mac i have ever used for 3D art. so how is this a crutch?

Good for you. That is not the case with everyone. Driver conflicts plague many Windows users. You should feel lucky.

Stooch
02-02-2007, 09:40 AM
Wrong. my camera works perfectly with 0 drivers. same goes for printers... have you used a pc lately? anyway with respect to chilton i am done. this will go on forever when dealing with fanatics.

mike_stening
02-02-2007, 09:41 AM
this will go on forever when dealing with fanatics.


eh?:bangwall:

matix
02-02-2007, 10:52 AM
Is anyone else enjoying this as much as I am? I'm glad this thread has survived as long as it has. Dealing with such a sensitive subject brings out the strongest and truest assets of both sides.

In a way I feel that this is like a good college course. I'm getting to learn the history of both Mac and PC, all while enjoying the whit and cunningness of both users.


I donít like how people jump in and say "hey xxxx your an idiot, quick f-ing this thread up and go home"

blah blah blah, obviously someone with nothing to contribute.

**** i just got gravy on my keyboard....anyway

I share an office with a Mac user. He is an artist. He uses the mac as a tool...an extension of his hands and his mind to create art work. He is very good at what he does. Yesterday he said "I'd like to play more on the PCs, I donít really know much about them. What I do know is that there are WAY more plugins for Lightwave for PC than there are for the Mac."

Right there. Mac user, wants to play more on a PC. Legitimate reasons also I must say. My point Iím getting at is that Stooch is right, someone who uses a computer as a tool to do his job separates the fanatics from the power users. I have a Dual G5 in my office as well as 3 other PC's. I use what I need to do my job.

Chilton
02-02-2007, 11:08 AM
Hi,



Yesterday he said "I'd like to play more on the PCs, I donít really know much about them. What I do know is that there are WAY more plugins for Lightwave for PC than there are for the Mac."

Right there. Mac user, wants to play more on a PC.


Please let your friend know that the days of this being the case are numbered. We're going to make it super-simple to write plug-ins for the Mac version of LW.

-Chilton

dsol
02-02-2007, 11:52 AM
Please let your friend know that the days of this being the case are numbered. We're going to make it super-simple to write plug-ins for the Mac version of LW.
-Chilton

Best of all, every Mac comes with a complete set of developer tools. And they're pretty good too. In fact, it may even be the case there are more Mac LW users out there with access to the tools needed to write plugins than their Windows equivalents. Visual Studio ain't cheap (no, I'm not trying to start some flame war here now about Xcode vs. VS!)

The mac LW port to Xcode should prove a tremendous boost to the platform. I'm very excited :)

eidetiken
02-02-2007, 12:07 PM
I already wrote a plugin following the new SDK... just waiting for the Universal Binary (which was announced over 3 weeks ago) to see if it works.

Its good you made it easy to write mac plugins, but the fact is, there are way more Windows programmers than there are Mac programmers. With the switch to X-Code from Codewarrior you might even see an initial drop in Mac plugins until Mac people start taking advantage of Macs.

Got a question for you Chilton, I've noticed a lot of the other 3D apps use python for their plugin language and they claim its a 3D industry standard for writing plugins, they don't word it that way but I get the feeling thats what they mean. Whats NewTeks stance on python language for plugins?

shrox
02-02-2007, 12:43 PM
For me, the choice of which computer to buy came down to one thing, the two button mouse, right click does one thing, left click does something else. Otherwise both WinPCs and Macs are pretty much the same concept, clicking and dragging.

John the Geek
02-02-2007, 12:46 PM
For me, the choice of which computer to buy came down to one thing, the two button mouse, right click does one thing, left click does something else. Otherwise both WinPCs and Macs are pretty much the same concept, clicking and dragging.

You chose a computer based on a $10 peripheral you could have bought at Walmart?

You know Macs can right-click, right... they have for quite a long time.

Stooch
02-02-2007, 01:37 PM
For me, the choice of which computer to buy came down to one thing, the two button mouse, right click does one thing, left click does something else. Otherwise both WinPCs and Macs are pretty much the same concept, clicking and dragging.

hehe, you can get all kinds of mice for the mac

oh my lord... did i just.... oh my god i need to go repent.

Darth Mole
02-02-2007, 01:47 PM
Yeah, yeah PCs vs Macs, lovely... anyway - Chilton, when the freaking **** is this freaking UB coming out. Freak it.

Darth Mole
02-02-2007, 01:48 PM
What? You can't even say ****?

Darth Mole
02-02-2007, 01:48 PM
Ah, ****.

shrox
02-02-2007, 01:49 PM
You chose a computer based on a $10 peripheral you could have bought at Walmart?...

No, I chose a WinPC for the Solitaire!

Lightwolf
02-02-2007, 02:10 PM
Visual Studio ain't cheap (no, I'm not trying to start some flame war here now about Xcode vs. VS!)

In that non-flaming vein: There is a free edition of Visual Studio that works quite well to develop LW plugins (incidentally, I used that for the first versions of exrTrader, including the 64bit version with a MSVC hack). No difference between using that or XCode.
I'll be very happy to finally use XCode though and be able to ditch that hossible CodeWarrior (there you go, flame me now ;) ) - with XCode I'll finally be able to actually use a debugger for LW plugins on the OSX side of things...

Cheers,
Mike

scabooba
02-02-2007, 02:18 PM
Hey STOOCH! Why don't you actually state something specific about where you feel mac osx falls short. I mean judging from your previous statements you really don't know a thing about mac osx. peripherals? driver problems? what? So seriously use one for six months and then come back here and complain and moan and whatever. I used a pc for 10 years and I'm not going back anytime soon, and I still have to use pc at work sometimes. I KNOW windows, I also KNOW mac osx and very much prefer it. If you want to argue something know both sides otherwise you just sound like a windows user, who doesn't know any better, and thinks that XP might actually be the best way to use a computer. Microsoft rested on their laurels for five years while mac updated their os 4 times and really did push what an os should be. hey I'm excited about vista because it is more like osx. Hopefully it won't be such a pain now to sit at a pc. seriously stooch 6 months of using a mac and you'll want one.

Kurtis
02-02-2007, 02:25 PM
Ok. I asked nice. Now I'm turning the car around.

Thread closed.