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Exception
01-13-2007, 04:51 PM
Even when Lock A/V is on, when you perform certain operations, such as slip / Slide or rolling edit, the audio doesn't get edited, or ends up somewhere unexpected...
What's the trick to make this work better?

ScorpioProd
01-13-2007, 07:42 PM
The only trick is to use lots of markers, so you can manually resync your clips. It's a pain.

Unfortunately, SpeedEDIT 1.0 doesn't have the ability to lock or group clips like you are hoping for. Beyond the normal lock/unlock kind of stuff that comes in as one A/V clip.

It would be nice to see this feature in the future.

Exception
01-13-2007, 07:44 PM
Oh really?

But isn't this really basic editing stuff? How can stuff like this slip though?
Every time I do a slip or rolling edit I have to manually resync the audio?

Sounds to me like Speededit will sit its time out on the shelf until things like these are fixed, and Premiere has to keep filling in the gap...

I really want to be positive about new Newtek things, but I can't see how I could be enthusuastic about al the half finished products :(

Bobt
01-13-2007, 08:55 PM
>But isn't this really basic editing stuff?
Have you spoken to Newtek about this?

>How can stuff like this slip though?
I have no idea..

Bob

Ivan
01-13-2007, 10:17 PM
Locking Audio (http://videotoasternt.com/forums/read.cgi?17524)

Hmmm, maybe the "next" version...

Ivan

Exception
01-14-2007, 08:47 AM
Locking Audio (http://videotoasternt.com/forums/read.cgi?17524)

Hmmm, maybe the "next" version...

Ivan


No, that's not it... the problem is that it doesn't link audio and video together properly, even when Lock A/V is set. With certain operations on video, the audio doesn't get matched with the video, resulting in a situation that needs careful manual re-editing of the audio to match the video. An annoying and elaborate operation that should not be necessary.

The suggestions in that thread surprise me and inform me of other short comings of Speededit too... I havn't worked with any video editor that can't quickly disable or mute tracks, lock tracks and so on...
I don't get it.. it can't be that hard to program, isn't this kind of stuff tremendously important?

ScorpioProd
01-14-2007, 12:41 PM
No, that's not it... the problem is that it doesn't link audio and video together properly, even when Lock A/V is set. With certain operations on video, the audio doesn't get matched with the video, resulting in a situation that needs careful manual re-editing of the audio to match the video. An annoying and elaborate operation that should not be necessary.

Yeah, I understand that what you're describing is a little different, but believe me the stuff in that other thread is just as much of a pain. Cause if you have any separate audio tracks that you need to tie to any video tracks, you currently can't, resulting in the same sort of problem you describe, only worked around with lots of markers and manual resyncing.



The suggestions in that thread surprise me and inform me of other short comings of Speededit too... I havn't worked with any video editor that can't quickly disable or mute tracks, lock tracks and so on...
I don't get it.. it can't be that hard to program, isn't this kind of stuff tremendously important?

As for the tracks issue you mention, well, the one thing that is important to note is that VT-EDIT and SpeedEDIT are NOT track based. It is a different paradigm from track based editors. Tracks actually mean NOTHING to SpeedEDIT. And you'll see as you use it that the program can move stuff vertically from one track to another at its own will. This is due to it having to continuously rationalize the storyboard and the timeline together. This duality can be powerful, but it also makes using something in a "track based" way very difficult, since it isn't based on tracks at all.

But yes, no matter what paradigm an editor works under, I certainly do agree that being able to lock or group stuff together is tremendously important. But I don't see being able to do track operations as something that could work in the SpeedEDIT paradigm, though.

Tom Wood
01-14-2007, 01:43 PM
I sort of struggled with this issue a while back when trying to link CGI animation RTV filess with WAV voiceover files. I mentioned this over at the Mirage forum and Steve Bowie (guru) mentioned that if the RTV and the WAV files have the same first name AND are in the same folder, then dragging the RTV will also drag the WAV file and lock it to the RTV. I've since moved on to a different animation style, but I just tried it and it does work. (EDIT: In VT4)

Pete Draves
01-14-2007, 02:30 PM
I don't use ripple edit because of all the shifts. The shifts occur with other editors also.

Try inserting new clips with the storyboard editor. storyboard sand linear are interactive and have different features
Pete

paulfierlinger
01-14-2007, 02:39 PM
I don't use ripple edit because of all the shifts. The shifts occur with other editors also.
Vegas gives you three choices of ripple editing; affected tracks, and all tracks and the third includes markers and regions. I do a lot of ripple edits and have a lot of tiny increments of SFX clips bunched up together. It sure would be a pain if they shifted but I've never had that problem as long as I select the proper ripple option.

cholo
01-14-2007, 07:30 PM
Maybe you can make a subproject to lock A/V? This had been mentioned in the VT boards for quite some time.

Ivan
01-14-2007, 08:40 PM
That works until you need to overlay the SubProject or any of the video in it.

Ivan

cholo
01-15-2007, 02:38 AM
Yeah, when you need that you can render out the subproject as a new clip. :) I know, I know, it's workarounds to something that should be easy enough to do, lock tracks together, but at least there's a way around it.

ScorpioProd
01-15-2007, 02:52 AM
See, the main issue I have with subprojects is that you totally lose the audio waveform display. And since that's quite important to me to finding music changes, applause, etc., to know where I am in a clip, that's important.

But again, I suggest not thinking in terms of locking tracks, but in terms of grouping clips together. Since I honestly don't EVER expect SpeedEDIT to be able to lock tracks, since it doesn't really use tracks in the standard sense. And I really can't imagine a way to do that without screwing up the storyboard/timeline duality.

I strongly encourage any NEW users lurking here that want this feature in SpeedEDIT 1.x to PLEASE speak up and let :newtek: know. :cat:

SBowie
01-15-2007, 07:59 AM
The error with audio when performing a slip 'n slide feels like a bug.

wvp
01-15-2007, 08:28 AM
...I strongly encourage any NEW users lurking here that want this feature in SpeedEDIT 1.x to PLEASE speak up and let :newtek: know. :cat:
I did that on 9/2/2003

Gordon
01-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Even when Lock A/V is on, when you perform certain operations, such as slip / Slide or rolling edit, the audio doesn't get edited, or ends up somewhere unexpected...
What's the trick to make this work better? The trick is very simple, select both (make sure both the audio and video are highlighted) and then perform the slip / slide (hold down the Shift + Alt keys and then drag).

This works with multiple audio clips as well as any audio clip, so that you can keep your video in sync with a voice over, plus a sound track, plus the wild sound in the clip. Just highlight all audio clips plus the video clip and then do the slip and slide. NO manual syncing after a slip n slide is necessary

Having said that I tried to get the embedded audio to fall out of sync with the video in an 'mov' file and it always stayed locked in sync. Maybe it is the file type that is causing a problem. What file type are you using?

SBowie
01-15-2007, 10:59 AM
I tried exactly that with a couple of DV AVI's, Gordon, and the audio was very noticeably out of kilter afterward.

Gordon
01-15-2007, 12:26 PM
The only trick is to use lots of markers, so you can manually resync your clips. It's a pain. NOT required, see previous post.

Unfortunately, SpeedEDIT 1.0 doesn't have the ability to lock or group clips like you are hoping for. Beyond the normal lock/unlock kind of stuff that comes in as one A/V clip.I think it has the most powerful and flexible method of locking and grouping - user selectable. As mentioned previously, to lock any clips together anywhere you just hightlight the clips. To group clips together you highlight them and create a subproject. To create a subproject so you can see your audio waveform, just create a subproject of only the video and leave the audio unselected. In the case of embedded audio, first make a copy of the embedded audio track(s) ("Ctrl" + click + Drag down), create the subproject and then mute the subproject audio.


I tried exactly that with a couple of DV AVI's, Gordon, and the audio was very noticeably out of kilter afterward.I just tried this with "mov" (quicktime), "avi" (DV) and "avi" (Divx video + mp3 audio) file formats and the audio has stayed in perfect sync. I put makers on the audio and video and then did the slip n slide and the markers after were in perfect frame alignment still. I played the clips watching for lip sync and still in perfect sync.

Therefore there has to be something else that is causing this and not SpeedEDIT.

Gordon
01-15-2007, 12:26 PM
I forgot to mention this was in a NTSC DV project. Maybe it is related to project type?

ScorpioProd
01-15-2007, 01:38 PM
I think it has the most powerful and flexible method of locking and grouping - user selectable.

Well, we definately don't have the same opinion on that one.

I'm not saying subprojects can't work for this problem in some ways, but that's a heck of a lot of workarounds you're suggesting for something as simple as grouping clips. I'm not looking to HIDE my clips and group them, just group them.

So yes, IMHO, markers are definately required, don't use them at your own peril.

cholo
01-15-2007, 02:26 PM
Well, if an operation throws your clps out of whack, you can always use the following hotkey to resynch... crtl+Z ...works everytime ;)



J/K

Gordon
01-15-2007, 04:18 PM
I see your point that there is room for a versitile system of clip group management that didn't use subprojects and thereby hide the individual clips. Perhaps one that let you highlight a number of clips and name the group and then another window like the spreadsheet that lets you maniputate that group. This would be useful for things like changing the audio or video level across a non-contiguous group.

... but that's a heck of a lot of workarounds ...I wouldn't call the single step for creating a temporary group by dragging your mouse over clips to highlighting them a "heck of a lot of workaround". Nor would I call the two steps of highlighting clips and then hitting the subproject button to make a more permanent group of clips a "heck of a lot of workarounds". However, there are a number of steps for creating a subproject out of several clips with embedded audio where you still see the audio waveform outside the subproject.

UPDATE ON A/V SYNC:
I just edited another short project (1280 x 720p) using nothing but m2t files from a JVC-HD100U camera and again - no problem maintaining A/V sync when doing some Slip n Slide.

I see in the clip properties window that the clips maintain their timecode. Maybe someday soon we will see batch capture/re-capture!

ScorpioProd
01-15-2007, 05:10 PM
I wouldn't call the single step for creating a temporary group by dragging your mouse over clips to highlighting them a "heck of a lot of workaround". Nor would I call the two steps of highlighting clips and then hitting the subproject button to make a more permanent group of clips a "heck of a lot of workarounds". However, there are a number of steps for creating a subproject out of several clips with embedded audio where you still see the audio waveform outside the subproject.

The last option being the one I need, that is the one I was referring to. Without the audio waveform doesn't interest me.

Exception
01-15-2007, 05:15 PM
I see now that is must be a bug...
I tried it 10 times, and only 4 times out of 10 it would jump...

I attached a dual screenshot of before/after the operation to illustrate.

Also, my preview screen jitters back and forth like 'still' on a VCR when I touch nothing...

Ivan
01-15-2007, 05:28 PM
Check to see that Lock A/V has a check mark by it. This is in the lower left of the interface. Unchecking this is the only way I was able to duplicate the screenshot you posted with a single clip. It may be possible that something else is going on in a more complicated project.

Ivan

Ivan
01-15-2007, 05:33 PM
Oops, never mind, it's a bug. It seems that if nothing is selected, the Audio becomes selected and that causes it.

For John because I know you read all the posts:

1. Drop a clip in the timeline
2. Deselect the clip
3. in the Timline view, hold down Alt+Shift and hover over the video
4. When the cursor changes to S/S move it left or right and the audio will become unsynced.

Ivan

cholo
01-15-2007, 06:12 PM
Yep, the solution to the problem right now is to make sure you select BOTH audio and video clips before performing a S/S operation on them.

Exception
01-15-2007, 06:36 PM
Well, good bug hunting on that!
Let's hope it's trashcan time for that bug. And the others.

Does anyone's preview jitter like mine?

Gordon
01-15-2007, 06:40 PM
I see now that is must be a bug...
I tried it 10 times, and only 4 times out of 10 it would jump...
I attached a dual screenshot of before/after the operation to illustrate.What type of AVI's (video type and audio type)? What project settings? Perhaps most important, are the clips direct capture from tape using SpeedEDIT or transferred from another program? Something has to be different in that you and others are having a problem but I have yet (out of about 40 attempts) to reproduce the error.


Also, my preview screen jitters back and forth like 'still' on a VCR when I touch nothing... That is weird and perhaps a big clue. Wait, is this an interlaced project? By preview do you mean the SpeedEDIT output window or a physical monitor attached to DV or VGA out?

Gordon
01-15-2007, 06:49 PM
Oops, never mind, it's a bug. It seems that if nothing is selected, the Audio becomes selected and that causes it. ....
Ivan Way to go Ivan. Yep, now I can reproduce it. I never had a problem because I always first clicked on the video (or had both the video and audio selected). Truth is I didn't think you could even do a SnS unless you first highlighted the clip.

So the solution is simple (till a bug fix comes out); before you do a Slip n Slide, click on the video clip (and any other audio clips, {ex: narration}, you want to stay sync'd), so it/they become highlighted then do the SnS.

Exception
01-15-2007, 06:49 PM
What type of AVI's (video type and audio type)? What project settings? Perhaps most important, are the clips direct capture from tape using SpeedEDIT or transferred from another program? Something has to be different in that you and others are having a problem but I have yet (out of about 40 attempts) to reproduce the error.

I think they found the bug (read posts above)...
It was a DV avi, captured with Premiere, NTSC DV format. Everything default, just opened Speededit, dropped the clip in, shortened it and wiggled it around.


That is weird and perhaps a big clue. Wait, is this an interlaced project? By preview do you mean the SpeedEDIT output window or a physical monitor attached to DV or VGA out?

The output window. Its just sometimes...

ScorpioProd
01-15-2007, 06:58 PM
The output window. Its just sometimes...

Actually, that used to happen to me with VT-Vision, but it doesn't in SpeedEDIT.

cholo
01-15-2007, 07:56 PM
Exception:

The video window in speededit is supposed to simulate fielding (which it does very well), but when you stop your timeline in a place where a lot of mevement is hapening with interlaced video, the display will twitter. It's normal. You can disable fielding by right clicking on the video window, but it would hinder your ability to spot problematic clips that might be incorrectly interpreted upon playback (reversed field order, interlaced material interpreted as progressive, etc...).

Exception
01-16-2007, 10:16 AM
Ok, thanks for clarifying, cholo!
Makes perfect sense.

robertn2k
01-24-2007, 10:04 AM
As for the tracks issue you mention, well, the one thing that is important to note is that VT-EDIT and SpeedEDIT are NOT track based. It is a different paradigm from track based editors. Tracks actually mean NOTHING to SpeedEDIT. And you'll see as you use it that the program can move stuff vertically from one track to another at its own will. This is due to it having to continuously rationalize the storyboard and the timeline together. This duality can be powerful, but it also makes using something in a "track based" way very difficult, since it isn't based on tracks at all.

Would be nice if we could somehow have another mode just as we have Storyboard, Timeline, filebin etc., etc., called "Track" that would change the paradigm to a more traditional timeline mode where you would assign elements to a specific track. Even if it means giving up the realtime tracking of SB & TL in that mode it would be worth it. When you switched back out of track mode the SB could update.

I'm generally not a fan of anything Pinnacle, but we've been using Studio Plus for some of our non-production majors who have to edit video projects and learn how to do so in a three hour crash course and the studio 10 software series is the closest thing to the user friendly nature of VT-Edit and SE. Studio's storyboard mode is not even in the same league as Newtek's but I'm not sure how many people actually edit in the storyboard. I do my rough edit in SB but then pretty much stay in the timeline. I go to SB to drop in a transition or quickly remove some black or a gap between clips but in all honesty I don't do a lot of setting in and out points etc., etc., in the SB.

ScorpioProd
01-24-2007, 12:35 PM
Honestly, without having the storyboard/timeline duality, I think SpeedEDIT would lose a lot of what may differentiate it in the marketplace.

wvp
01-24-2007, 09:57 PM
I would be happy if we could just have a "thumbtack" on every clip - if I push down on the tack that clip will not move (i can still change the in/out points and possibly razor it) but not move it.
Or some other way to prevent clips from moving left/right (up/down is not so much a problem).
IT IS FAR TOO EASY FOR CLIPS TO GET OUT OF SYNC.:mad:

ScorpioProd
01-24-2007, 10:09 PM
:agree:

Gordon
01-25-2007, 11:02 AM
I would be happy if we could just have a "thumbtack" on every clip - if I push down on the tack that clip will not move (i can still change the in/out points and possibly razor it) but not move it.A good idea. Presently the "Lock Streams" is designed to move the audio when you move the video but you can move the audio by itself. A "Double lock streams" would be nice so that when you move EITHER stream the other moves with it. And a thumbtack on either stream would prevent any movement on either stream if it was "double locked".

Or some other way to prevent clips from moving left/right (up/down is not so much a problem).
IT IS FAR TOO EASY FOR CLIPS TO GET OUT OF SYNC.:mad: It is also extremely easy to get them back into sync if the audio was part of the video. Just right click on the audio or video clip and select "Synchronize All Streams". (If you don't see a "Synchronize All Streams" choice it means that the audio and video are already synced.)

One thing further that you can do is make a sub project of the audio and video clip. This locks the two together but you can't see the audio till you drill into the sub project or expand it back out again.

wvp
01-25-2007, 08:17 PM
Well there are many times when I would prefer to chop just the video and leave the audio tracks untouched and vice versa - on clips that have audio & video.
There are also many times when I have audio that is not part of the video clips and would love to sync it and then know that the audio and video cannot move left or right. Imagine having an audio track of a band and 12 iso takes of video. You sync it all up and then while editing the video (iso 1, iso4, iso2, iso9, etc) you then discover while cutting and sliding in/out points that you managed to accidentally move the video out of sync.
We put markers on the clips and the timeline to at least allow us to re-sync, but its a pain.:thumbsdow

UnCommonGrafx
01-25-2007, 09:33 PM
:agree:
Jeff, I'm following you around 'cuz you are expressing some things I haven't been able to with the eloquence I'd like. ;)

I FLAT out agree with the above and the example is priceless!
:agree:

Gordon
01-26-2007, 02:50 PM
Well there are many times when I would prefer to chop just the video and leave the audio tracks untouched and vice versa - on clips that have audio & video. I still agree with you that locking the click (Video or Audio) to the timeline would be a good idea. For now, here is a method that may save you some work.
When you get your A/V in sync make a subproject of just the audio if the audio consist of a bunch of audio clips, ("Ctrl" + Click to select audio clips that are not contiguous). (If it is just the audio from one source then a subproject is not necessary). Hold down the "Ctrl" key, then click on the audio subproject/clip, then (while still holding down the "Ctrl" key) also press the "v" key, and then drag the audio down. What will happen is the "Ctrl" + click will make a copy of the existing subproject/clip but "unlock" the audio from any video clip. Pressing the "v" key constrains the clip to move only vertically when you drag it down thereby preserving A/V sync. Now you can go back and delete the original audio subproject/clip. This accomplishes two things:
1. Creates a copy of the audio and unlocks all audio from all video so the audio won't move around if you trim the in or out point, do a slip and slide or move a video clip.
2. Moves all the audio down and out of the way

As I mentioned this in no way is as good as locking a clip (audio or video) to the timeline. It has some problems:
1. You can't see your audio waveform when it's in a subproject. (Seeing your audio waveform can be a big help).
2. If you expand your subproject and it contains a number of audio clips and ripple mode is on, then adjusting a video clip will ripple not ony the other video clips but also ripple any audio clips downline, thereby ruining the A/V sync.

SBowie
01-26-2007, 03:00 PM
I think we all agree on this one. Surely no-one thinks it would be a bad idea to have more locking options.

radams
01-26-2007, 08:12 PM
I think we all agree on this one. Surely no-one thinks it would be a bad idea to have more locking options.


And grouping :)...with audio muting and video on & off :)

Lets have a group hug ;) ....hehehehe

Cheers

paulfierlinger
01-26-2007, 08:17 PM
There's a small feature in Vegas which I absolutely love and it's called Dim Output. It's a single toggle button on the Mixer which lets you instantly dim the volume down to a whisper when the phone rings or I use it at night a lot. Does SE have this? Granted, it's just a little luxury item, but a nice touch.

Jim_C
01-26-2007, 09:03 PM
If it helps, you can double click ont the Trim dial just above the meters for an instant mute.

wvp
01-26-2007, 09:25 PM
on the audio mixer (in VT) you can create a preset that would do the same - but this is a SE forum so oh well...

paulfierlinger
01-27-2007, 04:48 AM
on the audio mixer (in VT) you can create a preset that would do the same - but this is a SE forum so oh well...:confused: :confused: My question was whether SE has something similar.

radams
01-27-2007, 12:37 PM
Actually Paul,

There are ways to do this with SE....it is thru toolshed...or thru setting up a keystoke to do this....or just rotating the master audio knob on the lower right of the UI...

Also since everything with SE and VT are skins...it can easily programmed in and added to the UI....

So does that answer your ??

:)

Cheers,

paulfierlinger
01-27-2007, 01:10 PM
Yeah, Ray, it answers my question and I'll have to figure it out because I work in the wee hours a lot. But I suppose another point I was making is that it's sort of interesting to see little features like that appear in a maturing software, where they (at least give the air of) having the luxury of including little items like that. I always thought that it's a nice, subtle selling device, that's all. Like a better hotel that leaves a piece of chocolate at night on your pillow with tomorrow's whether forecast printed on the wrapper.

My SE is arriving on Monday, yay!!!

Jim_C
01-27-2007, 01:56 PM
Personally I wouldn't use a toolshed to do this..

If you only have 1 audio track, OK not such a big deal you can select it, open the toolshed, navigate to the user spline, then press Apply..(still rather cumbersome)

But if you have multiple clips that you are working with, you have to lasso or select all of them then apply toolshed.

But then you have physically altered the volume level of your clips. Not just the volume of the audio out. So you have to make sure you lasso ALL of them again to set the audio back...

And ooops better not miss one, cause suddenly you have one clip with mismatched audio...

Naaa... personally I would prefer to not have to adjust the audio properties of my clips just to lower the volume you are hearing.

Also (and this is a biggie and maybe even a bug..) adjusting that Master trim knob by the meters DOES effect your final render. So if you mess with that it messes with your final render product. Not just what you are hearing.

Honestly, if you want to lower the monitoring volume of SE I would just stick with using windows volume control.

Don't risk mucking up any levels within SE itself. Because any audio change in SE is reflected either within the clip(s) or on the render out. There is no way to just adjust what is being fed to windows audio output.

A 'monitor out only' volume control is needed. But I think that's what you just said... :)

paulfierlinger
01-27-2007, 02:13 PM
Gosh Jim, thanks. I had regretted bringing the whole silly subject up and now I've really learned something from it and am glad I did bring it up. I'll just use the speaker knob and wait until after version SE 2 or 3 before I file a request for this feature.:D

couryhouse
03-18-2007, 07:25 AM
as a person considering use of this for news production this is a bit scary.... I do not have the audio become unhindged from video in vegas...... I am trying to understand the problem here fully....ed sharpe

radams
03-18-2007, 02:42 PM
as a person considering use of this for news production this is a bit scary.... I do not have the audio become unhindged from video in vegas...... I am trying to understand the problem here fully....ed sharpe


Hi Ed,

What part or AZ are you ? I'm in Tucson at the moment.
As far as locking AV issues....

1) SE does keep things locked if you are moving the video part of a clip...so don't worry about that....

2) The issue only comes up if you move the audio section...but that is also easily fixed thru the edit props window....to keep things linked properly...

To be honest it is nothing more that a little nusance rather than a major issue....so don't be put off by it...

And as for other audio or automated/macro controls there are so many options....it just takes a little time to see and understand them.

Cheers,

radams
03-18-2007, 02:46 PM
I should also say....

That SE for fast paced news...is one of the best options for cut up editing on the planet !....that is where SE shines

Thou It does NOT have direct input with XDcam, or P2 at this time...

For Cutup editing SE is the fastest I've tried....I've been in the News & Broadcast game for along time...

Cheers,

ScorpioProd
03-18-2007, 08:07 PM
To be honest it is nothing more that a little nusance rather than a major issue....so don't be put off by it...

Matter of opinion...

If you're using multiple audio tracks and need to keep them all synced with a master track while doing editing, it can be more than a "little nuisance"....

But I do agree it's the fastest editor around.

couryhouse
03-19-2007, 07:57 PM
Hi Ray!
I am in Glendale. We have an office located in the historical district.

the audio problem probaby will affect multi trace with multi audio? I am still not clear....

The dvc pro and P2 capture may be an issue in time since I am considering one of the little panasonic HD cameras.

There are many things that are apealing about this editor....


Hi Ed,

What part or AZ are you ? I'm in Tucson at the moment.
As far as locking AV issues....

1) SE does keep things locked if you are moving the video part of a clip...so don't worry about that....

2) The issue only comes up if you move the audio section...but that is also easily fixed thru the edit props window....to keep things linked properly...

To be honest it is nothing more that a little nusance rather than a major issue....so don't be put off by it...

And as for other audio or automated/macro controls there are so many options....it just takes a little time to see and understand them.

Cheers,

couryhouse
03-19-2007, 08:00 PM
ref your comment....

"Naaa... personally I would prefer to not have to adjust the audio properties of my clips just to lower the volume you are hearing."


is there a master volume control for that particular audio track that can be adj to change the over all volume?



Personally I wouldn't use a toolshed to do this..

If you only have 1 audio track, OK not such a big deal you can select it, open the toolshed, navigate to the user spline, then press Apply..(still rather cumbersome)

But if you have multiple clips that you are working with, you have to lasso or select all of them then apply toolshed.

But then you have physically altered the volume level of your clips. Not just the volume of the audio out. So you have to make sure you lasso ALL of them again to set the audio back...

And ooops better not miss one, cause suddenly you have one clip with mismatched audio...

Naaa... personally I would prefer to not have to adjust the audio properties of my clips just to lower the volume you are hearing.

Also (and this is a biggie and maybe even a bug..) adjusting that Master trim knob by the meters DOES effect your final render. So if you mess with that it messes with your final render product. Not just what you are hearing.

Honestly, if you want to lower the monitoring volume of SE I would just stick with using windows volume control.

Don't risk mucking up any levels within SE itself. Because any audio change in SE is reflected either within the clip(s) or on the render out. There is no way to just adjust what is being fed to windows audio output.

A 'monitor out only' volume control is needed. But I think that's what you just said... :)

ScorpioProd
03-20-2007, 06:51 PM
ref your comment....

"Naaa... personally I would prefer to not have to adjust the audio properties of my clips just to lower the volume you are hearing."


is there a master volume control for that particular audio track that can be adj to change the over all volume?
SpeedEDIT isn't a track based system. IOW, you can't tell it to do something to a "track", only to clips directly.

ScorpioProd
03-20-2007, 06:55 PM
the audio problem probaby will affect multi trace with multi audio? I am still not clear....


What I mean is say you have an A/V clip with synced audio, and you have another audio track that you also need to have synced to it, so you've got this one video and two audios. Now say you start cutting up the clips to remove fat. You put crossfades in. Well, the audio attached to the video will stay synced when you put those crossfades in, but any other audio tracks will not.

I hit this a lot since I tend to split my stereo audio track and use it as two separate mono tracks that need to be offset relative to each other in time to fix "through the air" audio delays relative to a board or wireless feed.

couryhouse
03-20-2007, 08:04 PM
ok.. same with video????

how many audio and video tracks can you have??

ScorpioProd
03-20-2007, 09:35 PM
You can have as many audio and video tracks as you want, but as I said, they aren't really "tracks".

"Tracks" implies they are going to stay on the same line vertically in the timeline and you can do actions on them, that isn't the concept of SpeedEDIT.

SpeedEDIT is based on the storyboard/timeline duality, which is a very powerful concept, and with which, there isn't a practical way to make true "tracks."

See, depending on how SpeedEDIT needs to rationalize the storyboard and timeline to each other, it can MOVE your individual clips vertically in the timeline if it needs to. Again, why there aren't "tracks" in the traditional sense. You can't lock something so it stays on the same "track" as where you initally put it.

couryhouse
03-20-2007, 09:43 PM
very diff. from vegas then...


I see you use that also.....

many times hving all that stuff on the stacks of timelines is handy invegas...... as you an have trck actions an effects....

guess each one has its glory then?

ed!


You can have as many audio and video tracks as you want, but as I said, they aren't really "tracks".

"Tracks" implies they are going to stay on the same line vertically in the timeline and you can do actions on them, that isn't the concept of SpeedEDIT.

SpeedEDIT is based on the storyboard/timeline duality, which is a very powerful concept, and with which, there isn't a practical way to make true "tracks."

See, depending on how SpeedEDIT needs to rationalize the storyboard and timeline to each other, it can MOVE your individual clips vertically in the timeline if it needs to. Again, why there aren't "tracks" in the traditional sense. You can't lock something so it stays on the same "track" as where you initally put it.

ScorpioProd
03-20-2007, 10:27 PM
Yup, they each have workflows quite different from each other.

But for bread and butter editing, the speed and full quality real-time output of SpeedEDIT is a definate advantage.

ted
03-21-2007, 01:28 AM
very diff. from vegas then...
guess each one has its glory then?
ed!

Exactly Ed. I personally love the "trackless" freedom of editing in VT/SE. I'd be whining if we lost that! :)

My GFX guy is a die hard FCP fanatic!!! But I love it when he gets done with a session on VT or SE and tells me how much he would have hated editing the project on FCP. I just smile. :D

wvp
03-21-2007, 08:06 AM
Agree that VT /SE is a really good editor. That said, (as we have discussed in other threads) we should still be able to lock clips or rubber band them together, even if we first offset one from the other. I would like to also see the ability to lock a clip from moving left/right on the timeline.

Perhaps in the future NT could allow you to "select all clips on a particular line" (The timeline has numbers on it). At least that would make it easier to highlight a particualr group of clips to then apply whatever toolshed or setting you want.

Of course getting the subprojects to work better and integrate with programs like TMPGEnc would also help.

Thursday
01-10-2008, 09:54 AM
The non-locking audio is still happening in VT5 / Speededit.

This is such a basic, necessary part of non-linear editing and I still have to mark my audio with tons of markers and scoot everything back every time I put in a dissolve.

Is there a patch for this problem yet?
How do we keep upgrading and this issue remains?

Thanks,
Sarah

P.S. In an effort not to sound completely mean, some of the new features are really nifty.

ScorpioProd
01-10-2008, 01:28 PM
Correct, there is still no locking or grouping ability beyond clips that come in as video with audio.

You're not being mean, this is a major deficiency, IMHO.

There's no patch for this, it's how it is designed.

SpeedEDIT wasn't really a clean slate, but has a lot of VT-EDIT legacy in it, both good and bad.

UnCommonGrafx
01-10-2008, 02:13 PM
I am amazed this topic is still alive.

(Acerbic comments left out.)

This is not likely to be changed with a patch. I'm sure, if it is ever fixed it will be part of a paid upgrade since it seems to be quite difficult to do within the present paradigm.
It ain't broke; it was designed (?!) this way.

Thursday
01-11-2008, 02:13 PM
Correct, there is still no locking or grouping ability beyond clips that come in as video with audio.

You're not being mean, this is a major deficiency, IMHO.

There's no patch for this, it's how it is designed.

SpeedEDIT wasn't really a clean slate, but has a lot of VT-EDIT legacy in it, both good and bad.

You don't mean it's designed this way on purpose, though, right?
You mean that it's an inherent design flaw, I assume.

What is behind the refusal to fix this?

It's a bit soul-killing to hold my breath every time I add a dissolve, then scoot x number of clips back x number of frames. It's weird to me that I can launch a rocket, make smoke curl out of a donkey's nose, or add flowing, life-like hair to my bald uncle's head in Lightwave, but this basic tenet of non-linear edting is willfully ignored by Newtek.

/end rant

(thanks for listening / acknowledging. it's all just frustrating, and a little holler helps.)