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G3D
01-03-2007, 01:21 PM
Apart from a few display and selection issues, IKB looks very good.

I've got a few Qs for anyone else who has had success with it (Splinegod?)

Unless I'm missing something, this is a better IK system than the older one,
so much so that there is almost no point in using the old one. For me the same sort of animation is much smoother, and so far no popping at all.

I've read that you can use both the old system and IKB together. Haven't had success there. So far it seems like and either/or deal. Since IKB works so well, it isn't too big an issue for me , but its always good to have options.

From my limited time spent with IKB, it looks like there are two general directions one could follow to animate a character. The first is to use IKB in many of the same ways the old IK system was intended to be used, but without most of the issues. (popping, spastic joints, complicated rigs, etc)

The other general method would be to set up relationships between bones and nulls that act like sliders for poses that depend upon the limits of the bones, etc. The system would be more like working with an old school animatronic puppet. Having pretty limited experience with character animation, I'm not sure which of the two general methods (as I see them so far) would work best. The second method being more 'left brained' seems more elegant, but would likely limit the expression in a character.

Last I'm curious about how far in depth the various DVDs about IKB go.

Thanks in advance!

G3D
01-03-2007, 03:08 PM
Forgot to add that the model I'm working with is Catmul-Clarke and uses weight maps for the bones and other weight maps in the surface editor. I read some posts about weights not working with CCs, but I haven't seen any problems yet.

Castius
01-03-2007, 03:36 PM
Here is a rig I did for a friend. Took only a few hours from start to finish. The model is done by Tom speed(not included).

It combines the New IK plugin and IK Booster. So you will need the IK plugin.

www.steelronin.com/temp/char_gameRig.zip
www.steelronin.com/temp/Char_gameRig.mov

IK plugin
http://homepage2.nifty.com/nif-hp/index2_english.htm

In the video I show how i can disable the pinned object by just holding down ctrl key. I also used boosterlink on the forearm bone. So the rotation of the hand slightly rotates the forearm. Setting a rotation limit on the hand rotation makes boosterlink work like a set driven key in Maya. In stead of a direct one to one link.

I hope it's helpful to you for discovering how to utilized IK Booster.

Dodgy
01-03-2007, 03:45 PM
I've been playing with moho recently, and it had a similar bone manipulation tool in it. The main difference was it solved more than one pinned bone chains (i.e. both feet could be pinned and the root+chains would animate correctly with no slippage) and instead of bake zones, you just animated the pinning. I like the UI of the bake zones, you can immediately see the times when a joint is pinned, but moho manages to tween between root positions without creating any keys apart from the ones set by the user. This is what LW's IKBoost should be like in terms of how keys and solving is done (but the moho one is just 2d, which might make it a lot simpler) If LW's IKB worked in the same way as Moho's, you wouldn't need IK at all really. This would be an excellent addition for me.

Dodgy
01-03-2007, 03:51 PM
Here's a little example animation showing 3 joints pinned, then 2 joints being un-pinned in turn.

G3D
01-03-2007, 03:54 PM
Thanks for your links. I looked at the movie; very nice. Up to now I hadn't even used the 'fix' option, except for the base of an IK chain. I did some of what you did near the end of the vid to the fingers and hand, now I have more ideas.

Before IKB, if I had a character with a tail, the end of the tail would be the end of the IK chain. If I wanted to show the same character held by the tail, and trying to get away, for example, with the old system, I'd have to make an elaborate rig to make that work. But with IKB, I simply fix the end of the tail and animate from the other end, and the rig will work proiperly, yes?

MooseDog
01-03-2007, 04:06 PM
do you know about this? great stuff there :)

http://www.ikboost.com/

G3D
01-03-2007, 04:09 PM
Pretty good vids.

Castius
01-03-2007, 04:54 PM
http://www.ikboost.com/ has some great videos.

But I prefer to use full-time IK for things like legs. The good thing about this is you can always turn off full-Time IK and just use IK Booster to animate them for a certain shot. You might not be able to animate this transition in this rig. But even that could be setup if you knew it was needed.

It's nice to have these IK plugins to give you a lot of control over your full time IK limbs. But there not needed to make the legs work nicely.

At least this is how i prefer to set things up till IK Booster gets a few more upgrades.

G3D
01-03-2007, 05:14 PM
and don't throw it out and replace it with something like the original IK that doesn't work.

G3D
01-03-2007, 10:19 PM
Couln't open the movie file showing the oinned joints. What type of file is it?

Dodgy
01-04-2007, 03:33 AM
It should just be a standard movie....

SplineGod
01-04-2007, 04:43 AM
and don't throw it out and replace it with something like the original IK that doesn't work.

Just curious, what about the original IK system that you feel doesnt work?
You might also take a look at the PLG IK tools too. You can mix LWs standard IK (fulltime IK),
PLG and IKBoost on the same rig. IKBoost will give control to joints not controlled by LWs fulltime IK or other plugins like the PLG tools. :)

SplineGod
01-04-2007, 05:35 AM
I wanted to add a few comments.
I think LWs legacy IK system works fine. I rarely see any popping or flipping of joints. Its usually pretty easy to fix. I find the system pretty reliable.
Heres a couple of examples showing standard rigs in action and theyre
quite stable:

http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/char_rig_demo.zip
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/rig_demo.mov
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/dog_leash.mov

Its pretty easy to mix IKBoost with LWs legacy IK or with 3rd party IK tools
as others have mentioned. IKBoost lets any plugins or fulltime IK have control first. Any channels that are open IKBoost will control.
One of the things to remember about IKB is that its not just a rigging system but a whole animation system. The power of IKB is that you can rig and rerig on the fly as part of the animation process.

Check out Jeff Lews free 34 minute video. He uses Animation Master to do his videos. For the most part everything he shows and talks about is available in LW. The part where he mentions keyframe modes and the ability to copy/paste/save/load/edit and insert motion clips are all things that IKBoost does.

Colin (IKBoost.com) has some good videos demonstrating aspects of IKBoost. The only thing I would disagree on is IKBoost being a full body IKsystem. I think its more of a pose to pose system similar to what Jeff Lew demonstrates. Ive used Motioin Builder which is a full body IK system and theyre VERY different.

Colin also mentions that my IKBoost video is what got him going with IKBoost.
On his website he said, "My involvement with IKB is only ‘passing-through’. Larry Schultz (Splinegod) was getting to grips with it long before me, I had written it off too until I watched his CD."
I think the videos definately worth it. Im also working on a far more indepth series of videos about IKBoost.
Heres a few quickie IKBoost videos:

http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/ikb_rig_demo.mov
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/face_rig.mov
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/ikb_char_walk.mov
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/ikb_shoulder_rig.mov
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/ikb_stretchy_rig.mov
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/ikb_char_walk.mov
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/ikb_char_jump.mov

G3D
01-04-2007, 12:45 PM
It should just be a standard movie....

No, my browser opens a window with random text when I click on it. Tried 'saving as,' but that option saves it as a .php file. Also tried changing extension in case you may have zipped it, but nothing works. Would like to look at it ... if you could repost it as a Quicktime, that would be great.


Just curious, what about the original IK system that you feel doesnt work?

I didn't mean that the old IK didn't work, but it sounds like NT is working on another entirely new IK system, not an extension of IKB. And being entirely new it might not work right. IKB as it is now is working much better for me than the old IK ever did, so I just hope that NT keeps it.

Thanks again for the vids, esp. the one with an IK leash. Didn't know about pre bending at all. Up to now I though bones were bones. When you pre-bend , the rotations must get written into a file somewhere that the IK system can reference. Would that be part of the scene file? Looking at a rig, would there be any way to know if its been pre-bent? (other than playing with it)

SplineGod
01-04-2007, 03:03 PM
Prebending is definately your friend. Thats the one thing that will do more to stabilize that popping in the joints. Its actually not exactly prebending (But that explanation works). Basically you dont want the IK affected joint in a straight line in between the beginning and end of the IK chain. Prebending helps indicate to the IKSolver what the preferred way for things to bend.
Another thing that helps is to not move your IK Goals in straight lines, always move them in arcs. The closer you get the beginning and end of your IK chains (usually happens when the Goals moved too close the beginning of the chain) it can 'stress' the IK Solver and cause unstable results. So again, animate the goals in arcs. :)

Joker II
01-07-2007, 08:27 AM
....
Heres a couple of examples showing standard rigs in action and theyre
quite stable:

http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/char_rig_demo.zip


Pfff, WOW Larry, that was really cool :thumbsup:

Gonna upgrade to LW 9.0 before buying this DVD, but, I'll certainly will, the posing looked so realistic and you made it seem so simple.

Is the DVD explaining things from the very beginning to the very end, meaning, skelegons/bones, use of weightmaps, animation (IK, FK plus IKBooster), etc... ?

You know, looking at what you did without the use of weightmaps, that was really cool.

alifx
01-07-2007, 10:27 AM
I agree with Larry (SplineGod) .. but sometimes when I use BLENDER I feel the whole animation system is far better than LW, there are more features that Blender has over LW.

the IKBoost is a good system to work with but it's not what all the character animators want, still.... we need a Lattice tool also and a better expression system.

Larry you are one of the versed guys in LW's CA, and I loved these Videos, is there any tutorials you are going to make.

G3D
01-07-2007, 03:26 PM
Works great on the PC, but in all my versions of LW, several features have display issues, and some don't work at all. One big issue is the undo feature; if you've set up a rig and wish to test it, you can bend and hit undo on the PC, and undo works right.
On the Mac there is no undo. AT ALL. Really slows things down. Also on the Mac and to a lesser extent on the PC, you have to zoom far out from the model to select either bones or menu options for their attributes.

G3D
01-07-2007, 03:38 PM
... there is almost NO WAY to select a bone or part of a rig without accidentally moving it, and having no undo means you have to reload the scene over and over.

SplineGod
01-07-2007, 03:41 PM
Pfff, WOW Larry, that was really cool :thumbsup:

Gonna upgrade to LW 9.0 before buying this DVD, but, I'll certainly will, the posing looked so realistic and you made it seem so simple.

Is the DVD explaining things from the very beginning to the very end, meaning, skelegons/bones, use of weightmaps, animation (IK, FK plus IKBooster), etc... ?

You know, looking at what you did without the use of weightmaps, that was really cool.

Most of whats shown can be done in LW8 or 9. The Rigging part of my character course covers pretty much every aspect of rigging including IKBoost. I also show how and when to use weight maps as well for a variety of things. :)

SplineGod
01-07-2007, 03:43 PM
I agree with Larry (SplineGod) .. but sometimes when I use BLENDER I feel the whole animation system is far better than LW, there are more features that Blender has over LW.

the IKBoost is a good system to work with but it's not what all the character animators want, still.... we need a Lattice tool also and a better expression system.

Larry you are one of the versed guys in LW's CA, and I loved these Videos, is there any tutorials you are going to make.

Sadly enough youre correct about Blender. Its really made some amazing strides in a short time. Glad its free :) You can get the animations into LW as mdd files too.

Would be nice to have lattices someday which Im sure we will see.
IKBoost is really powerful. Its not simply a rigging system but a full blow animation system as well. The rigging is changeable on the fly which is great when doing complex animations. You can save and reuse poses and motion clips and a lot more. Its part of LW and definately worth learning IMO. :)

George,
Sorry to hear it such a PITA on the Macs....

G3D
01-07-2007, 06:09 PM
... that I selected a bone and in the Item List it shows the Camera as selected!

SplineGod
01-07-2007, 06:25 PM
That would drive me insane....

alifx
01-08-2007, 03:00 AM
thanks SplineGod, the only problem here in LW community is that most of them used to rig with the standard IK system in LW (and I am one of them :bangwall:) , there are a few only who uses IKBoost for character animation.

still waiting for LW 9.5 or 10 maybe to see what we will get for CA.

Btw : Blender is very good choice for me to do some chracter animations with it but I'm still learning it, and I'm already using it for some modeling with the new Sculpt tool.

Mrjack
01-08-2007, 07:47 AM
thats right splinegod pre bending is best for ik.....it's used in many 3d package.... i prefer to use Plg ik who is really powerful (please newtek buy it...)mixed with ikBoost...

omeone
01-08-2007, 08:16 AM
Colin (IKBoost.com) has some good videos demonstrating aspects of IKBoost. The only thing I would disagree on is IKBoost being a full body IKsystem. I think its more of a pose to pose system similar to what Jeff Lew demonstrates. Ive used Motioin Builder which is a full body IK system and theyre VERY different.



I wouldn't say that ;)
I use it pose to pose too! :D
the 'full-body' (no stops and almost no fixes) aspect is very useful, but only in a limited set of posing situations and still needs individual refinement, I find. Anyway, the flexibilty to use it whichever way you like and mix it up is built right in...

I have been getting further with it too but I am over-busy since then for updates which is very disappointing, and 9 didnt add much excitment to the mix either :(

Happy New Year Larry and all :)

jasonwestmas
01-08-2007, 09:29 AM
I love most things about IKB (for windows), thanks to users who have shown me it's strong suit which is to use it with the legacy IK. It's the 'keying' system for IKB track that I can't stand. . .all those unncecessary keys. That will have to be worked on I would think.

Probably the dominant reason for people not liking IKB is the crummy documentation for it, and false promises such as saying that it's a full body IK solution in and of itself. Most of the success of other animation packages I have used is that there are rather large books you can buy JUST on RIGGING, which is probably why I'm half way decent at it in other packages and I didn't need to visit a forum. Show me something like this for IKB. I don't know of anything, a lot of good websites where you have to hunt down your answer sure, but not as practicle as a good descriptive book or a good manual.

I know there are better solutions than IKB but if you can't afford them atm or have the time to learn them or just like to stay native, If you miraculously have gotten the information like I have, IKB and LW IK is far, far, far away from being usesless.

SplineGod
01-08-2007, 08:40 PM
Hey Colin!
After using Motion Builder I WISH IKBoost or LW for that matter had a true full body IK System. I do completely agree that its biggest strength is the flexibility to use it the way you want. Rerigging on the fly to me makes up for any of its deficiencies. Happy New Years too BTW. :)

MrJackm,
The great thing about IKBoost is that it seems to play well with the other IK systems. It will control what LWs fulltime IK or PLG isnt controlling which is pretty cool. :)

Jason,
I agree. The problem is that LWs animation workflow is in a state of flux. The character tools are dependant upon those general animation tools and according to Newtek will change. I dont know if this means IKBoost will stay, go or be updated along with the other tools or not. Its easier I think to produce videos on the subject and update those rather then spending months on a book which could be obsolete before its even printed or soon after.
I totally agree though that LWs tools are far from being useless. :)

jasonwestmas
01-08-2007, 11:02 PM
Larry, if only we could actually pin the bone/joint's rotation like you can with IKB translation. You'd have something very similar to Motion Builder's IK system then. When I first started using IKB I was shocked to find that I couldn't make a foot stick in place without baking and even that was messy without using the legacy IK. Too bad rotational pinning isn't in the NT cards atm. I wonder if someone could script that.

SplineGod
01-08-2007, 11:56 PM
You can pin rotations if you fix the ankle and foot bones for example or use match goal/orient contraints/targetting etc.
Though I will still disagee somewhat on the motion builder comparison. Its full body IK is really amazing and behaves pretty much exactly as expected (which it should for the price). IKBoost sorta can act like it but will wig out easily if moved the wrong way. As a pose system IKBoost is great. :)

Dodgy
01-09-2007, 03:41 AM
Here's that movie zipped up. Moho solves multiple chains all the time, so the root bone just goes from pose to pose, and the feet stay pinned in place by the chains being solved, until a joint is un pinned.

jasonwestmas
01-09-2007, 07:00 AM
You can pin rotations if you fix the ankle and foot bones for example or use match goal/orient contraints/targetting etc.
Though I will still disagee somewhat on the motion builder comparison. Its full body IK is really amazing and behaves pretty much exactly as expected (which it should for the price). IKBoost sorta can act like it but will wig out easily if moved the wrong way. As a pose system IKBoost is great. :)

I tried pinning multiple bones in the foot with my animation once, talk about a major cluster muck! Bones flipping in every direction. I was trying to get an archer to pivot on her foot bone like a basketball player would and then shoot an arrow in another direction. No matter how I tried I could not get the foot bone to stay at one single translational coordinate :) In conclusion to that experience I decided that the controller handles for IKB are too dependant upon eachother even with the pinning; In other words, the relationships between the the controller handles are too arbitrary, they need stablization such as a good legacy IK setup. (Needless to say, the 'reverse heel' setup along with the IKB was the only option for that kind of motion.

I used Motion builder for a month once for some motion capture editing. Buggy as heck, yet the way the IK/FK animated and blended together was more than extremely solid, nothing like it for an auto rigger.

So yeah I think you are right about the comparision between IKB and Motion builder in that there really isn't much of a comparison ;) The problems with using IKB by itself for characters is deeper than simply adding rotational pinning. I would say the whole pinning system needs a rewrite.

Dirk
01-27-2007, 06:38 AM
When I first tried IK Booster, I gave up after a few hours - I somehow couldn't manage to get something useful done with it. A few days ago, I discovered IKBooster.com (mentioned in this thread, thanks), downloaded the videos and gave it another try.

Slap me, but what I didn't realize was that IK Booster is a part-time IK sytem, and that it is possible to change the rig from frame to frame. I really can't recall what I did when I first tried IKB, but somehow, I managed to mess up my poses every time. It seemed to be totally unusable, or at least pretty arcane in a way. Together with "Bake spots", etc., I found it to be quite intimidating. To understand that IKB is a posing system with part time IK was the biggest hurdle for me.

After watching the videos and trying for some more hours, my mind has changed and I think IKB can be uselful. I like to pose a character with it, and old IK + IBK mix pretty good.

However, there are some things that I don't like:

-Bind Motion and fixing doesn't work really well, I can't move the hips and have 2 feet firmly on the ground. Ok, I can do that by using the old IK, but it would be great if I could use only IKB, since it would give much more flexibility.

-Bind Motion moves the root object and bakes keyframes for it. That's not good. If I want to create animation for a computer game, moving the root object is a "No No". I've tried to use an additional root bone, fixed it, set it to "motion", set its constrains to 0,0,0, but as soon as I use Binding, IKB moves the root object + bakes keys. A workaround would be to save the motion of the root object, delete it and load it on the root bone. But if the root bone moves down on Y, below 0, it could create problems with game engines. And the creation of looping animations might be a problem as well.

-I have applied IKB to a character with several thousand keyframes. It's slow like a snail, unusable.

- the whole baking thing is unsatisfying. baking should be the very last step, and only be used if I want to export an animation for use in another 3d app or a game engine.

What I still would like to know about IKB:

- Is there a way to mirror a pose? If so, how? This could be very useful for creating loops.

- Can I fix two or more feet on the ground, without using the old IK, and without "Bind Motion"?

-What is a bake spot? What are they good for?



My biggest wish for IKB in 9.2 would be the abillity to fix a node over time, and being able to animate the fixation. Example: the left hand is fixed from frame 20 to 40, and again from frame 50 to 60, while the right hand is fixed from frame 35 to 55.

omeone
01-27-2007, 08:00 AM
-Bind Motion and fixing doesn't work really well, I can't move the hips and have 2 feet firmly on the ground. Ok, I can do that by using the old IK, but it would be great if I could use only IKB, since it would give much more flexibility.

It always depends on the situation... but have you tried IK_stop at the ankles and FIX at the balls of the feet?


-Bind Motion moves the root object and bakes keyframes for it. That's not good. If I want to create animation for a computer game, moving the root object is a "No No". I've tried to use an additional root bone, fixed it, set it to "motion", set its constrains to 0,0,0, but as soon as I use Binding, IKB moves the root object + bakes keys. A workaround would be to save the motion of the root object, delete it and load it on the root bone. But if the root bone moves down on Y, below 0, it could create problems with game engines. And the creation of looping animations might be a problem as well.

yeah, unfortunatley that is the idea behind how I think it was designed to be, but as you describe: it doesn't appear to be huge step in development to make a command which would facilitate game setups... and even more unfortunatly... there seems to be no way to for 3rd Parties to access anything in IKB :(


-I have applied IKB to a character with several thousand keyframes. It's slow like a snail, unusable. wow! what is that for? Ive never had slow-downs with IKB, cos of its part-time nature (but Ive never been in that situation!) Could this be just down to displacements from the Bones and subPatches?


- the whole baking thing is unsatisfying. baking should be the very last step, and only be used if I want to export an animation for use in another 3d app or a game engine.

there's lots of different 'types' of baking produced by IKB (from each node being moved and how you set that to effect the hierarchy, to bake spots and binding). It is not intuitive about telling you which type is best at the right time, generally for me binding is for posing and baking always comes last, but your situation is different and may need a different approach.


What I still would like to know about IKB:

- Is there a way to mirror a pose? If so, how? This could be very useful for creating loops. Yes! but it doesnt work (well) :( I fecked around with it too much and found myself setting opposite poses manually (which is pretty fast when you into the IKB flow). But another thing that needs to be fixed! If animating anything robotic mirrored poses are essential!

I believe this could be scripted and executed outside IKB without any adverse effect.


- Can I fix two or more feet on the ground, without using the old IK, and without "Bind Motion"? try the suggestion I metion above for starters


Q- What is a bake spot? What are they good for?


A- My biggest wish for IKB in 9.2 would be the abillity to fix a node over time, and being able to animate the fixation. Example: the left hand is fixed from frame 20 to 40, and again from frame 50 to 60, while the right hand is fixed from frame 35 to 55. ;) that's how bake-spots are supposed to work, but since IKB is a frame by frame and pose 2 pose system (in my interpretation anyway) ... this is its how it tries to provide a solution over multiple frames. So, set you bake-spots, and if you do some minor tweaks, you can re-bake them again and again. the frame range is remembered or can be edited by dragging the ends up and down.

IKB was an excellent 1.0 release... a great foundation to build on, but will we ever see 1.1, 2.0, 3.0...?

For now it has a nice flexible system that lets you take as much or as little advantage from it is as you want.

Dodgy
01-27-2007, 10:13 AM
I have a pose copy/pose paste plugin pair on my web site which does pose mirroring if you need that.. I wrote it after being unhappy with IKB's implementation.

alifx
01-27-2007, 10:29 AM
Thanks god that we have guys like Dodgy here ...

I use your plugins everyday, but why Newtek don't hire these devolopers like you and TrueArt , polas and many others??!

jasonwestmas
01-27-2007, 02:17 PM
Yes, I don't think I'd still be here if it weren't for the 3rd party scripting wizes on this site! :)

Dirk
01-29-2007, 08:46 AM
It always depends on the situation... but have you tried IK_stop at the ankles and FIX at the balls of the feet?

Yes, but no luck. IK Booster is really more like a Booster, it can help the old IK in some ways, but can't replace it, imho.


wow! what is that for? Ive never had slow-downs with IKB, cos of its part-time nature (but Ive never been in that situation!) Could this be just down to displacements from the Bones and subPatches?

It's a low-polygonal character for a computer game, where the requirement is to have all animations in one scene. The scene works like a charm without IKB.


IKB was an excellent 1.0 release... a great foundation to build on, but will we ever see 1.1, 2.0, 3.0...?

I think Lightwave is pretty straightforward in many ways... but when it comes to IK and character animation, its like a riddle. IKB looked like a good start, but with "binding" + "baking", I'm not sure how helpful it will be besides for animating the upper body of a character.



@Dodgy: cool, Thanks!

jasonwestmas
01-29-2007, 09:17 AM
Hmm, I exported IKB characters to the Valve Source engine no probs. But as you have mentioned, I have not had to put all the animations into one scene. That seems impractical to me, but hey if other setups and packages can do it without IKB. . .

P.S. I wouldn't even think about baking stuff that can be solved easily with the correct IK setup along with IKB. You should look into some of Spline God's tutorials if you haven't already. That was the best way to learn this stuff in my experience.

omeone
01-29-2007, 11:53 AM
The scene works like a charm without IKB.

that would be very interesting to see, you could have some weird conflicts in your setup.


I think Lightwave is pretty straightforward in many ways... but when it comes to IK and character animation, its like a riddle. IKB looked like a good start, but with "binding" + "baking", I'm not sure how helpful it will be besides for animating the upper body of a character.


Its "horses for courses", use whatever you are able to get good results with. IKB works happily with or without full-time IK, personally I have little call for it anymore, especially for leg setups ;) :)

omeone
02-02-2007, 06:13 AM
just a note to say I have looked at a sample scene Dirk sent me and I can confirm there is IKB performance hit with timelines of several thousand frames and millions of keys.

To get around it shorten the active timeline range to something like 100 frames e.g. F2560 to F2660 etc Also, make sure Global fxIK is unchecked in the IKB Menu. This does not fix it completely though, as responsiveness is still better at the frame range 0-60 than 2940-3000.

I haven't found the root of this yet, anyone got any ideas?

Dodgy
02-02-2007, 07:15 AM
I'm thinking IKB needs to evaluate from frame 0 up...

PixelFarmer
02-02-2007, 08:04 AM
... there is almost NO WAY to select a bone or part of a rig without accidentally moving it, and having no undo means you have to reload the scene over and over.

In Preferences/General, disable the left mouse click select option, then use the MMB for selecting items.

M

jasonwestmas
02-02-2007, 09:03 AM
There are multiple undo's but it doesn't work in all cases as you know.

hypriit
02-02-2007, 09:08 AM
How can i use other objects to guide ikb skeleton, Like if i want two hands hold spear object and are sticked to it, so when i move spear, hands follow ? is that possible with ikb. I have tryied with goal object but only goal orientation works .. nothing else.. it seems it dont refresh in real time and when i move some part of that skeleton it will stick to goal object like it should be...sadly it dont move along with it... Any ideo how to get it work ???

Dirk
02-02-2007, 09:25 AM
just a note to say I have looked at a sample scene Dirk sent me and I can confirm there is IKB performance hit with timelines of several thousand frames and millions of keys.


It should be noted that the character has only 18 bones. If a character has more bones, IKB will probably slow down earlier.

omeone
02-03-2007, 03:22 AM
More Bones doesnt make any difference.
It's down to the keys, editing at 3000 in the sample scene is unusable on my system.

It works, and with the couple of things I mentioned you can get edits done while taking extra care... but that is no way to work, you would lose the flow having to edit at a slower speed...

I would call this a bug, what do you think?

What are you using these scenes for? Is it an import of mo-cap?
I'm wondering how many people are likely to be effected by this...
Not that that should make any difference, if one person found a problem - it still should be fixed, besides it could be an indication or symptom of another problem

omeone
02-03-2007, 03:55 AM
it seems it dont refresh in real time and when i move some part of that skeleton it will stick to goal object like it should be...sadly it dont move along with it... Any ideo how to get it work ???

You need to use IKB's own translation tools on the Goal (not Layout's widget)

Select and Right-click on fixed node
Choose Options > Set Goal [previous selected node]
Select and right-click the goal node
Mode > Move

hypriit
02-03-2007, 04:39 AM
When i set my goal in lw motion options windows or in ikb options ... the result is same. When im moving the goal object the skeleton dont move and when i move the sekel a little it seems to refresh and stick to goal object..
but i neeed to do it in every frame cuz it dont follow the goal in real time.

The result is like when you have a bone and goal object and IK is off you can see that ik line when moving goal but bone stands still...

Mait be you can make a scene where is working goal.I think there is some kind of switch whats not turned on in my my scene.. : )

Dirk
02-03-2007, 05:03 AM
More Bones doesnt make any difference.
It's down to the keys, editing at 3000 in the sample scene is unusable on my system.

Yes, I've tried the IKB-Octopus (97 bones) in a test scene with 3000 frames, and it seems to slow down in the same way as the other scene.



I would call this a bug, what do you think?

I don't know how IKB works, and for what reason it has to "look" at the older frames. However, since its always possible to edit lower frame ranges, and IKB doesn't care about later keyframes, it could be a bug.



What are you using these scenes for?

Game engines often need all animations in one chunk, to be able to blend between animations (from running to standing, walking, etc., for example). Now, if You have a running, walking, sneaking, etc., character who's able to switch weapons, You'll end up with a big scene.
There might be workarounds, for example, let the character have a neutral pose while switching weapons, and switch the scene then.

But without IKB, there is no need for a workaround....

omeone
02-03-2007, 05:47 AM
When i set my goal in lw motion options windows or in ikb options ... the result is same.

yes, this should be the same

When im moving the goal object the skeleton dont move

it should,
what version are you using?
do you have global fxIK ON?
are you using IKB controller node to move (or rotate) the goal?


and when i move the sekel a little it seems to refresh and stick to goal object..
but i neeed to do it in every frame cuz it dont follow the goal in real time.

I recognise this, when I import a curve for a goal to follow this need to be done too. A good to make sure you dont ruin your motion arcs is to have a null as the last child in the whole rig that does not affect anything above it. Once you 'nudge' this all goaled bones should snap to their goals :)


Mait be you can make a scene where is working goal.I think there is some kind of switch whats not turned on in my my scene.. : )

OK I will make a sample scene with a spear now, but then I MUST go and watch the Rugby :D

back in a bit...

omeone
02-03-2007, 05:56 AM
OK, load the attached scene, Hit Ctrl+b, select the node in the center of the spear and drag on the RGB numeric values beside it to rotate the spear...

Do the arms moves? If not there is something wrong...

hypriit
02-03-2007, 06:33 AM
eh : ) thx for your time Omeone.. it works perfectly... The problem wast that i didn't put goal object into the group where bones are...

Problem solved thx