PDA

View Full Version : Mac bug list LW 9



Northwoods
12-26-2006, 09:30 PM
Firstly I should say I am not currently part of the 9.2 beta. I imagine quite a lot of this is known, I imagine buried somewhere is a public list of Mac issues, well you'd think so, but I can't seem to find such a list (there is a list for 8.5 however), but my sense of this it is better to to talk openly about these things if one wishes them to be taken seriously.

And these things do need to be talked about because LW 9.0 PPC is not even close to stable and therefore really usable at the moment. So, again it is important to acknowledge that. I was also fascinated to read that there isn't even an Intel Universal binary at the moment, so we are talking about PPC here, not Intel with PPC LW under Rosetta.

Really then, this is for who it may concern, and while a lot of this may be well-known (I know at least some of them are), this is not even comprehensive, if I had the time I could spend forever finding new bugs, so this is just based off my own experiences with 9 and not really pushing it at all, I should also point out that I try to make a distinction between bug and feature request which I'm sorry to say, are at times almost indistinguishable, so here goes...

Bug List Mac PPC LW 9.0

Layout:

BUG: Mirror Hierarchy

Mirror Hierarchy is repeatably crash-able with certain hierarchies or even single items, and can crash arbitrarily.

Reason: One would guess Mirror Hierarchy (I seems to be a call to a compiled lscript called Mirror - this is not stable ) is not checking it's input and not able to deal with unexpected issues.

Feature request: Mirror Hierarchy 2:

Although creates literal transform and rotation mirror, rotational numeric values for mirrored hierarchy are in practice, nonsense values and many settings are lost.

Reason: Custom record piv rot info is lost so mirrored bones rotate on incorrect (or rather uncorrected) planes and have non corrected rotations in flipped hierarchy until rot pivot is reset again manually. Expressions on bones are lost as well as channel constraints and motion limits are preserved but not flipped.

SOLUTION:

Mirror hierarchy should strive to emulate old Mirror Bones third party plug-in 5/6.x in functionality and stability and could even exceed it, i.e search and replace expression channel modifer to swap string 'L' for 'R'.

Customized rot pivot/Bone Twist etc must be kept intact and numeric rotational values should be a mirror of original (or zero obivously if original is zero). MH must be able to deal with all circumstances without crashing. Usage of MH (i.e mirroring small chains of bones) quite frankly is is just not as good as Mirror Bones where one could just mirror everything from the root.

And all channel modifiers should be copied. So when we mirror bones, we mirror everything. EV-ER-YTHING.

BUG: Vector Blur

Vector Blur totally broken, seems to repeatedly calculate 3 or 4 times then goes above 100% progress and does not render blur at all. This needs urgent fix. (Blur type, Camera type, global render settings or AA type makes no difference)

BUG: VIPER

Reappearance of old bug circa 6.x: close VIPER window and or deactivate it, open it again and VIPER is dead

BUG: VIPER

Seems to be able to arbitrarily create grossly inaccurate previews of procedural bump altitude, i.e it can be way more in VIPER than when rendered.

BUG: Visor

doesn't work with renders

BUG: Visor

Visor added to a null via Add Custom object, doesn't work, no visor pane is created

BUG: Surface Mixer Shader

Not properly blending specular channel and/or glossiness (this is without nodes even). Difficult to say which from render buffer view as there is no 'glossiness' buffer, but definitely something to do with specularity itself, possibly problem with bump as well, RGB is fine.

BUG: LScript Commander

Major bug: Put simply nothing works when Lscript Commander is open (can't select, move, or change main window top tabs etc or properties, although incredibly the events are still recorded by LSC yet they don't happen in the scene). If you try and make a keyframe when this is open, then the entire LW session will need to be forced quit as there is no other way out.

BUG: Draw line to... (Item shape)

Can't draw line to correct item. When scene is reopened it is correct.

BUG ?: Photoshop layer modes on bump channel

Not really clear whether they actually work as expected (note PS's overlay still works on 8 bit images in PS) , occasionally changing modes can cause crash.

BUG: Shift All Keys in Scene Editor, then keyframe in that space

This seems to create secret invisible keys ??? Create a keyframe in the shifted space and it's like you have keys already there in fractional time (even if fractional frames are off) which create blips in animation.

So if I shifted frame 51 to 60 10 frames so there is now 20 frames between that space of 50 to 70 and no keyframes in that space and then I create a key somewhere in that space, it's like the key it creates seems to be sharing a tiny tiny fractional space with another key. Strangely going into the graph editor and pressing 'undo' seems to clear the invisible key which is causing the blip. This is a massive bug.

This is also causes a chain reaction of more bugs where the graph editor starts drawing curves outside of it's bounds. (The curves themselves seem to be nonsense loops)


BUG: Multiple selections via Scene editor or Select Children

Takes ages to make selection, CPU at full throttle in doing so.


BUG: Motion Mixer

Create a motion for an actor, go to change current frame in scene (not MM window) by scrubbing scene timeline or hitting f to go to frame = instant crash.

UNIMPLEMENTED: Preview Options on Mac still not working after years.




Modeler:

BUG: Unweld points

Hide some polygons. unweld a point somewhere on the model remaining visible. The hidden points elsewhere will be back and are selectable, while the hidden polygons remain hidden. This is an old bug from 6/7.x and has never been fixed

BUG: Volume selection

Use the Volume selection tool once in lasso mode, that's it for entire session it won't ever come back. This seems to be an extreme version of an old occasional sporadic bug from 5-7.x This needs urgent attention. Also it is not possible to drop the selection anymore by clicking on a border outside of the viewport which I assume is not a bug a change in behanviour for this tool ?

BUG: very rare sporadic GL warping.

This is is kind of a non-issue really but it's interesting as I haven't seen this since 5.x, where the perspective viewport in Modler becomes vertically stretched for a while. ( What next? the Orange Band of Death ? How many people here remember that I wonder)

BUG ? : Third Party Lscripts Flipit and Flipitfast

don't appear to work properly. I think they are supposed to mirror as well as just flip geometry.


BUG: Catmull-Clark edgeweights

essentially non-functional (inc/decrease sharpess have no effect). Major bug.

BUG: UV spider

High chance of crash when initiating this tool before it even gets to the dialogue. Has never been stable in any release.

BUG: auto-apply to surface on creation of Vertex color

Doesn't work, Vetex color map is not applied and needs manually doing so in Surface editor


BUG: can't reorder custom menus by dragging in Modeler Edit Menu Layout

Will only allow custom menu to be dragged as a submenu to others, it cannot be moved otherwise.

BUG: revert object

High chance of crash.


BUG General: GUI/Text field focus bug

select the field you want by clicking...indeed it looks active, go to type and you find to your annoyance it is appearing in the field above.

Of course you can throw in here general stability for both Modeler and Layout, strange sporadic crashes and so on.





Let's add some feature requests as well:

Experimental features, although command alt shift F1 turns experimental features on, it is no longer possible to access IK solver iterations with command alt shift F3 (?), at least on the Mac. Please bring this back it is very useful.


Feature request: Graph editor,

The new colours are not very pleasant in my view, and the old ones were much easier on the eye, ok they can be changed via the Hub. But there has been some change in in the graph editor drawing that occurred around 7.5d, previously in 7.5 it was fast when panning around, but now it's almost like the background lines are anti-aliased or something, it's quite a bit a slower. This is a case of performance, not prettyness, so I would advise the 7.5 style drawing of the graph editor again.

Feature requests:

'Save Transformed Object', this really really should save a deformed subdivision surface version of the model not a frozen polygonal object, or rather it should give the option to do either.


Feature requests: Joint Move Axis constraint and numeric input

Constrain Joint Move to axis (i.e just move joint on Z not x or y)

Move joint numerically

Feature request: Bone MOVE

Not tip move or joint move, but bone MOVE. So I move a bone and all children remain in place.


Feauture request/Bug ?:

Dope track seems to loose selection after moving keys, strangely enough not after duplicating (alt dragging)

Thanks for reading, Happy Christmas.

Chilton
12-26-2006, 11:16 PM
I imagine quite a lot of this is known, I imagine buried somewhere is a public list of Mac issues, well you'd think so, but I can't seem to find such a list (there is a list for 8.5 however), but my sense of this it is better to to talk openly about these things if one wishes them to be taken seriously.


Thank you for taking the time to create that list. We have an internal bug system that we use to keep track of known bugs and their status. That's actually the first and most important list of things for us to fix. At the other end of that list is the forums, mainly because by the time things hit the forums, we already know about them through tech support, finding them ourselves, or other means.



And these things do need to be talked about because LW 9.0 PPC is not even close to stable and therefore really usable at the moment. So, again it is important to acknowledge that. I was also fascinated to read that there isn't even an Intel Universal binary at the moment, so we are talking about PPC here, not Intel with PPC LW under Rosetta.


I wouldn't call it unusable--we've got quite a collection of very talented users who are doing some amazing things with it. However, there has been considerable discussion here regarding almost all of these issues in the past. The CFM version version will be put to rest shortly, as almost all of the work on LightWave for the Mac is going into the UB release at this point. Much of the engine that contributed to the bugs you mentioned has been replaced entirely for that version.

However, I will be happy to double-check your bugs against the ones we've fixed as soon as I get a little free time.

Thank you,
-Chilton

Northwoods
12-27-2006, 03:40 AM
Thank you for taking the time to create that list. We have an internal bug system that we use to keep track of known bugs and their status. That's actually the first and most important list of things for us to fix. At the other end of that list is the forums, mainly because by the time things hit the forums, we already know about them through tech support, finding them ourselves, or other means.

Thank you Mr Chilton for it giving it your attention. Yes I would expect a great sway of these to be well known. I would hope the vector blur bug has been discovered....


However, I will be happy to double-check your bugs against the ones we've fixed as soon as I get a little free time.

That would be appreciated. Just on the shifting keys via the Scene Editor for example (I'm talking about the classic scene editor here not the master plugin/instance new version, if you manually grab keys in the dope sheet there that seems ok) but anyway, this is fully repeatable in a simple scene with just a null. Also it doesn't seem to happen when you use the dope track above the regular timeline to shift keys or move keys with the graph editor. But obviously the old Scene Editor is really useful if you want to shift (or scale) all keys at once, unless that command lives somewhere now as well.

Just to reiterate: Classic Scene editor: shift all keys, in the new time space you have created create a new key, this key won't show up in the timeline but does in the dope track, and in the graph editor it will be living next to a mystery key almost on the same frame that will cause a huge motion spike.