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s4man3
12-16-2006, 08:42 PM
How to you set up and get the .tga or .tiff Final Editing Program to Film?
I am outputting files at Academic 1/2K into (1828 x 1332) 1828 x 940 to be editted i Final Cut Pro. Once edited in Final Cut Pro and audio in created and synced with Footage. what do I do? Output at QuickTime or a Sequenced .TiFF files? .Mov? and send the film to someone to Convert it to film?

Does anyone know what dimensions and output setup you should have to get 3D files 35mm Academic 1/2K into 1828 x 1332 into Final Cut Pro for editing, and then finally to prepare the footage for conversion to Film.

LightWave to Final Cut Pro to 35mm Academy 1/2K Film...

Can anyone help?

avkills
12-17-2006, 10:59 AM
I'm no expert on producing for film. But if it was me, I would probably use a digital HD format instead and then get that converted to film. If your film is completely digital, then to me there is no reason to waste a ton of time trying to figure what resolution to render at.

The reason you are having playback problems is because a single drive can't handle playing back that much information in real time. If you really want to edit at film quality then you need a media drive array capable of sustaining 10bit Uncompressed HD playback, and more if you plan on editing in native 1K/2K resolutions.

Do some google searches on it and you will find some useful information; I did it and it looked like way too much trouble to me.

If you can't afford a nice speedy drive array, then you might consider using the HDV format or DVCPRO-HD. You could even use the DV format using anamorphic techniques.

-mark

dsol
12-17-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're after. Do you want to have a animation transferred to 35mm film (which is an expensive process, but one that can be handled by specialist post production facilities) or do you want it laid off to HDCAM (or HDCAM SR)?

In terms of the editing process and workflow, I'd take your full res sequences and generate lower resolution proxy versions - for example: NTSC DV codec, standard def, 24fps. Use the low-res versions to edit, then once you're happy with the edit (and it's been signed off by the client) do a film res conform by changing the FCP sequence settings to the film spec and re-linking the source footage to your film res original.

avkills
12-17-2006, 08:05 PM
That sounds like some great advice Dan. Working with film res files in real time is going to very expensive also.

-mark

s4man3
12-18-2006, 08:48 AM
Thanks guys for the great advice.

So I would need an Ultra Wide Scisi disk array to make my FCP sequences play smoothly.?

It is my goal to produce a 90 plus minute runtime finished 35mm film using Lightwave, Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro. Then paying for direct conversion of the digital media to 35mm film. I found a company in New York, who will do the convertion from Digital to Film for $20,000. There Tech gave me the 1828 by 1332 specs, but was quite vague about explaining anything else. he just talk film tech talk right over my head.

I think this project may take about two years. I have a Four node Lighwave Render Commander, Render farm, using Two Dual Porcessor 2gHz G5s.

I have a Graphic Arts, Video and Audio Background (May old career was a Packaging Designer). 3D was basically a hobby using Infiniti 3D and Strata etc? Until I purchased LightWave 8.5 when it came out. Now, I love 3D and wish to make 3D my new career. I am currently employed as a DV TV Broadcast producer, but I wish to break out of this and into film.

My goal is to create a film master to sell to Feature film cinema distributers. A totally self produced feature animation, kinda like the Animation version of what Spike Lee did with "She's gotta have it" back in the 1980s. My budget is $30,000 total, with $20,000 for conversion. Is this possible to do yet?

dsol
12-18-2006, 09:28 AM
So I would need an Ultra Wide Scisi disk array to make my FCP sequences play smoothly.?

Nope, SCSI is nice but it's generally only needed when you're constrained by (physical) space and you need the fastest storage in the smallest area. In my facility I've set up a dual 2.5Ghz G5 (my old workstation) as the core of a FCP online suite. For storage, I'm using a Eonstor MasscubeII RAID-5 enclosure. This has a dual-channel SCSI Ultra320 connection to the mac (which has a Atto PCI-X controller card). Though the connection between the mac and the RAID box is UltraSCSI, the drives used in the box are just yer average plain jane 3.5" SATA drives - cheap and effective. With 7 of them striped together in a RAID5 config (with 1 redundant drive for fallback), I get sustained read/writes of over 100MB/sec. RAID5 also protects your data - if one of the drives dies, you don't lose anything.


It is my goal to produce a 90 plus minute runtime finished 35mm film using Lightwave, Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro. Then paying for direct conversion of the digital media to 35mm film. I found a company in New York, who will do the convertion from Digital to Film for $20,000.

I personally wouldn't factor in film printing into your production costs. You'd be better off spending the money (which is a huge amount) on the feature itself and mastering the final thing to a high quality HD format like HDCAM-SR. Printed film is on its way out in cinemas don't you know? The future (and it is the *very* near future) is direct digital projection.


I think this project may take about two years. I have a Four node Lighwave Render Commander, Render farm, using Two Dual Porcessor 2gHz G5s.

My goal is to create a film master to sell to Feature film cinema distributers. A totally self produced feature animation, kinda like the Animation version of what Spike Lee did with "She's gotta have it" back in the 1980s. My budget is $30,000 total, with $20,000 for conversion. Is this possible to do yet?

Hmmm... well far be it from me to discourage people from embarking on something insanely ambitious, but if you're not aiming for photo-realism then it *might* be possible. Have you produced any shorts yet? Any kind of feature film production is an ENORMOUS undertaking, I'd strongly recommend cutting your teeth first on a short film or promo. It'll give you a good idea of the scale of any future feature project.

Good luck! :)

s4man3
12-18-2006, 10:09 AM
Everything I do I start big, I don't know why, but I am like that. But that is how I am creatively driven. It is like going of a safari or creative adventure. I tend to learn better under creative pressure; otherwise, I get creatively lazy.

I've created a very short minute long animations for an iMax screen presentation, with Cheesy Star Trek type space spaces and images beaming to planets and such, used in conjunction with a theatrical play. This was my first real paid 3D project.

I've also done short animations with flying logos and such for the TV show with sound tracks created using Logic Pro.

This is a cartoon style 3D animation, not photo-real. But a sur-real style cartoon animation.

On this project I have already create two minutes of the intro scene, I am now working on the sound track and trying to get the movie to play smoothly in FCP.

I've created the script and the storyboard.

In LightWave I've modeled 12 of the 40 characters that I need to developments. And created various parts or sub-scene one of the Alien planet city scenes.

Jeffers
12-18-2006, 10:16 AM
I agree with dsol. Don't factor in the cost of transfer to 35mm. Let a distributor or someone else foot the bill for that once the film is complete and sold !! :D

dsol
12-18-2006, 10:55 AM
On this project I have already create two minutes of the intro scene, I am now working on the sound track and trying to get the movie to play smoothly in FCP.

OK, well uncompressed HD sequences are always be a bit of a no-no for editing and playback (unless you have a very large and very fast storage solution - a big fat RAID!). I'd render out from LW with the following settings: 1920 * 1080 resolution, 24 fps. You can render out in any uncompressed or losslessly-compressed format you like (TIFF, Targa, PNG), but I recommend PNG as it'll reduce your storage requirements without compromising image quality. From these image sequences you'll need to create quicktime movies. You can do this easily using QT pro. I'd suggest the following export settings: 1920 * 1080 resolution, 24 fps, PNG or BitJazz's SheerVideo codec (this is a commercial codec - it's pretty nifty though! like PNG, only much faster). These will be your "master" 3d renders - in fact, after they've been created you can delete the image sequence version. They'll be too large to playback or edit in realtime, so you'll be needing to create some lower res compressed versions of them for this purpose. To use the industry term - you're creating the "Offline" versions.
Using quicktime pro or after effects, export off new versions of your master quicktime movies. I'd suggest the following settings: 720*480 (anamorphic), 24fps, DV or Photo-JPEG codec. In FCP, you can create a new sequence with settings that exactly match your offline spec. Then start editing!

Of course, it's pretty easy in LW to change the resolution you render at, so it might be better to render everything at offline res anyway. You can always go back and re-render at full 1920*1080 res when you're ready to do the online - and by that stage you might have enough material put together to get the funding to have it rendered using a render farm like respower.

As you can tell, it's a fairly involved process, but so long as you implement good job tracking procedures from an early stage in the project it should be easy to maintain an effective production pipeline.

s4man3
12-18-2006, 01:14 PM
Basic Step by Step Workflow would be to:

1.) In LightWave I'll output (D1 720 by 480 DV NTSC anamorphic screen at 24 fps).

2) Purchase a big fast raid array. The Eonstor MasscubeII RAID-5 enclosure. With a dual-channel SCSI Ultra320 connection to the mac (which has a Atto PCI-X controller card)

3.) The key is to use offline editing techniques of Final Cut Pro to edit the entire movie as D1 720 by 480 DV NTSC anamorphic screen at 24fps. Create some SD-res DVD of this format movie file.

4.) Once I'm happy with the finished movie, I'd re-render the original Lightwave files at HD 1920 by 1080 with no anamorph at 24 fps res sequences.

5.) Convert the HD sequences (png file format to save space) to uncompressed QuickTime Movie files, using the PNG codec or BitJazz's SheerVideo codec.

6.) Then exchange the compressed D1-res FCP clips, with the uncompressed HD-res movie clips. (Using the FCP offline technique.)

7.) Finally, export a completed uncompressed edited movie out of the FCP timeline, as one singular movie file.

8.) Once the film is sold, I'll have the distributor handle all the business of converting the HD movie file to film.

Great! Looks like a good plan!

s4man3
12-18-2006, 01:59 PM
dsol, Thank you very much for helping me build a workflow. I will mention you in the special thanks portion of the credits

s4man3
12-18-2006, 08:07 PM
Do I need a dual atto scsi card or will a single do?

avkills
12-18-2006, 08:33 PM
You don't really need the same drive array as Dan (dsol has). I would suggest looking into some G-Technology G-RAID devices. They will easily have the speed for the offline stuff.

And yes you basically have the workflow down.

-mark

dsol
12-19-2006, 04:34 AM
You don't really need the same drive array as Dan (dsol has). I would suggest looking into some G-Technology G-RAID devices. They will easily have the speed for the offline stuff.

And yes you basically have the workflow down.

-mark

Though be aware that AFAIK the G-raid drives only support Raid 0 (and raid 1, but who uses that?). The Eonstor, with RAID5 not only gives me speed, it provides safety against drive failure. I wouldn't want to spend months and months of my life working on something only to lose it all to a dead hard disk :(

Alternatively, use the G-Raids, but have regular backups made (though if you're dealing with terabytes of data that may not be practical!)

dsol
12-19-2006, 05:10 AM
Do I need a dual atto scsi card or will a single do?

It's just one card - but supports dual channel UltraSCSI 320. I'd recommend the dual channel card over the single channel variants - more speed is always good!

This is the one I'm using:
http://www.span.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_702_771&products_id=2177

This is a PCI-X card, if your mac has PCI express slots instead you'll need to get the PCI Express version.

avkills
12-19-2006, 12:39 PM
Actually G-tech has a new RAID system that is multiple drives and is RAID 3. They also have one that has FibreChannel and U320 interfaces; RAID 5 or 6. I would probably go with the FibreChannel since it is more modern than Ultra320, but either one is good.

I just use G-RAIDs 320 GBs at work, but all I am mostly doing is DV25 stuff. They have been really good drives though, much better than LaCie.

-mark

s4man3
12-19-2006, 07:15 PM
Well, I thank everyone who has replied, for straighting me out with how to organize the workflow for this project.

This guy created a Feature 3D movie all by himself.

http://www.cgfocus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1397

dsol
12-20-2006, 03:38 AM
Actually G-tech has a new RAID system that is multiple drives and is RAID 3. They also have one that has FibreChannel and U320 interfaces; RAID 5 or 6. I would probably go with the FibreChannel since it is more modern than Ultra320, but either one is good.

Cool, that's useful to know. The last time I looked, they only did firewire and ESATA drives. RAID5 is really useful - I wish apple had put a Raid5 controller in the MacPro. Lots of high-end PC motherboards seem to have it now.


I just use G-RAIDs 320 GBs at work, but all I am mostly doing is DV25 stuff. They have been really good drives though, much better than LaCie.

The laCie bigdisk case designs seem to be very bad at dissipating heat from the drives - probably why they keep dying. I've got my bigdisk extreme drive propped up on legs to maximse airflow around it. Fingers crossed, it's not been giving me any problems so far.

s4man3
12-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Using the LaCie as leg warmer? haha.

I have the very portable F. A. Porche designed LaCie 250G firewire drive.

During the summer it gets really hot and humid here. So heat is something I try to illuminate as much as possible.

I keep my CPU, Hard drives, and anything with radiates anything as far away from me as possible.

A environmental health reporter hired by a company that I do freelance work for said, "If you spend many hours everyday with things the emits magnetic or radiation of any kind is not good."

Recently, I've purchased some long monitor cables, USB cables and Firewire cables and keep all that noisey stuff in an isolated closet. My closet does have a quiet fan system installed inside of it. And it warms my entire studio during the Winter. During the summer I connect a vent the blows it outside.

So now, I only have LCD screens, keyboard and mouse around me. Also, it helps me to have a quiet studio for when I do audio work.