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View Full Version : Edge beveling/rounding ?



Pavlov
12-14-2006, 07:23 AM
Hi,
correct me if i'm wrong: still we have not a simple tool to get round corners in every situation ?
Rounder works only on closed geometries, edge bevel is unpredictable and messes up model in most situations.
Is there a tooo, even commercial, which allows efficent and snappy edge rounding ?

thanks,
Paolo

sonofmickel
03-14-2007, 11:21 PM
Resurected from the dead!
Cmon! Anyone got something good or what? I want to put some serious rounding bevels on stuff like corners and what not. Maybe even bevel some cats. Rounder just doesn't work for most anything but a box, but not just any box, it has to be the perfect box. Does anyone have a tool to make a perfect box? Not just any box, but a perfect box that a guy could use rounder with? Hey, does anyone have a tool that works like rounder that actually works with something other than a perfect box? Round and round and rounder we go...:jam:

ercaxus
03-15-2007, 12:06 AM
interactive edge bevel and edge slide in 9.2 would be so cool.

colkai
03-15-2007, 02:58 AM
Oh man! Wouldn't it just? That's something the likes of Silo and Hex have which I'd so love for my LW.
Meantimes, I makes do with the plugins wedgebevel and wedgeslide / edgeslide, plus the old normal move and rotate, which sadly, don't seem to be "about" anymore.

Though the ability to do this natively with polys, edges and points would be a joyful change.

Pavlov
03-15-2007, 03:14 AM
even a simple chamfer tool would be useful. By now there's NO one of these tools which works safely in every situation, all can mess geometry for some reason, or erase UVs. Is that difficult to write a chamfer/rounder tool which works fne and doesnt require closed geometry to run ?

Paolo

*Pete*
03-15-2007, 03:21 AM
Rounder will work on nonclosed geometries also, but this means you will have to select which points to round by hand.

*Pete*
03-15-2007, 03:24 AM
Resurected from the dead!
Cmon! Anyone got something good or what? I want to put some serious rounding bevels on stuff like corners and what not. Maybe even bevel some cats. Rounder just doesn't work for most anything but a box, but not just any box, it has to be the perfect box. Does anyone have a tool to make a perfect box? Not just any box, but a perfect box that a guy could use rounder with? Hey, does anyone have a tool that works like rounder that actually works with something other than a perfect box? Round and round and rounder we go...:jam:


I can round triangles, tubes and spheres also with rounder.....pretty much everthing that has more than 2 polygons can be rounded.


perhaps there is something wrong with your LW?


i have tested only in 9.2 so maybe it doesnt work with 9.0??

Pavlov
03-15-2007, 03:34 AM
welll... in some situation rounder works also on open geometry, but it has to be very simple geometry. In complex situations it simply gives errors too often.
Try this: open an architectural scene, select curbs near roads and try to round them (supposing they are hard edged). It wont work in most cases, giving error messages or directly crashing. LW's edgebevel will do that, in some cases, but you will loose UVs.
This is 9.0, but i dont use these for a lot of time because of this... dunno if they have been updated lately.

Paolo

colkai
03-15-2007, 03:40 AM
Rounder is far too flaky for my liking and I'll resort to it only when given no other choice. Shame, it had the potential to be so useful.

*Pete*
03-15-2007, 09:45 AM
welll... in some situation rounder works also on open geometry, but it has to be very simple geometry. In complex situations it simply gives errors too often.
Try this: open an architectural scene, select curbs near roads and try to round them (supposing they are hard edged).


I know, i had similiar problems too, but then i learned what makes rounder to work.

i am not at my computer now, and cant acces LW at the moment so i cant make screenshots to show what i mean, so i hope an explanation by words alone will be enough.



Rounder rounds the polygons between 2 or more points.


take the curb you described for example...
if you do not select which points to round, it will try to round everything, also those that are flat.

you will have to round it in 2 stages, one when you select the upper left side points of the curb, round them, and the select the upper right side of the curb, then round them also.

you should end up with a correct looking curb.


but, if you select both upper side polygons the same time, rounder will try to round across the width of the curb also, from the left side ponts to the nearest points at the right side.

this will at best give you an ugly curb, worst case a crash.

edit: i could be wrong...dont have LW here with me and cant test at the moment, id be happy if someone could test and post here.

Surrealist.
03-15-2007, 11:59 AM
I can confirm that rounder works. It is very particular about how.

From the manual:


Selecting Polygons
If no polygons are selected, Rounder will scan all the polygons of the object. If you are only rounding a few edges of an object containing a large number of polygons you can speed up the action of Rounder by selecting the polygons containing only the points/edges you are rounding. NOTE: When selecting polygons make sure you select all the polygons adjacent to the edges/points you are rounding, otherwise Rounder will generate an error.


Clean Geometry. An important part of not generating errors with Rounder is to ensure the geometry is clean:
1. Rounding edges must be shared by exactly two polygons.
2. Polygons containing rounded edges must be planar.
3. Make sure no isolated points or two-point polygons are selected


Pete is right about selecting points. This inspires me to go back and relearn this tool from the manual. It has a lot of examples and the tool is quite extensive. I remember having problems with it that were solved by going back to the manual. I'm going to do that again. It's been a while.

I am quite sure, though rather picky about how, the tool works fine.

Here are some examples using a bogus object I tossed together. I tried to make it fairly complex and representitive of some problems that might be encountered for architechure. The use of the numeric panel is key for some of the more complex operations.

Pavlov
03-15-2007, 12:25 PM
well... i agree with some attention it works better - usually i model extremely clean so no issue on this - but rounder does have some issues anyway in simple tasks, i.e if there's an open edge it seems to be unable to understand edge. look at this pic... it's a very common situation. I know i can find a workaround for this, but no way to get a straight operation with rounder.
In this case it would be enought to have a basic chamfer... so why not to try Edge Bevel: the other pic is the result, an extra point is generated and geometry is messed up.
It would be nice to have a simple but solid tool for tasks like these, 3D world is full of open edges ;)


Paolo

nemac4
03-15-2007, 03:37 PM
I use rounder quite often and it seems pretty reliable to me. Though I would still like some real edge tools in Lightwave.
I just finished a tank model and I used rounder a for almost every non-subD edge.

Surrealist.
03-15-2007, 06:30 PM
well... i agree with some attention it works better - usually i model extremely clean so no issue on this - but rounder does have some issues anyway in simple tasks, i.e if there's an open edge it seems to be unable to understand edge. look at this pic... it's a very common situation. I know i can find a workaround for this, but no way to get a straight operation with rounder.
In this case it would be enought to have a basic chamfer... so why not to try Edge Bevel: the other pic is the result, an extra point is generated and geometry is messed up.
It would be nice to have a simple but solid tool for tasks like these, 3D world is full of open edges ;)


Paolo

Well, this is not a repeatable problem.

Three possibilities:

1) Your geometry is not clean or you simply have to redo it - it happens.

2) Your plugin is corrupt.

Try deleting it and resinstalling or perpahs just delete the rounder config from your programs folder.

3) Something with your set up. I have some tools (sock monkey bone edit) that don't seem to work on my AMD for whatever reason. That can happen.

As for edge bevel Yes, it will do that every time. It has to be surropunded by a point at each end of the operation.

But rounder does it fine (Also if you look at my other examples there were plenty of open edges)

Pavlov
03-15-2007, 07:13 PM
hmmm... i'll try removing the plug, otherwise it's my PC. very very strange.
question: is your geometry empty in the back ? i mean, what i see is the only geometry, there are no backfaces ?

Paolo

Surrealist.
03-15-2007, 07:45 PM
Oh, I see what you mean. My bad there. I could not see yours either. It is not supposed to work if the ends are open. (but you knew that) No, you are not losoing your mind.

The tool is not meant to work that way. You can have open ends, just slice the edge so you have polys surrounding the operation and then delete them.

Surrealist.
03-16-2007, 11:25 AM
Also I just want to clarify what I meant by "open" orginally.

The picture below shows an "open" end, that is, the bevel terminates and is not required to go around the object. And again to clarify the geometry does not have to be solid. The area of operation must be surrounded by faces. Same is true with edge bevel.

Anyway, the point I was making was that rounder and edge bevel work exactly as they should. All you have to do is learn how to use them.

If you want an open end, delete it after you use the rounder or edge bevel tool.

1)Rounder 2) Edge Bevel

Pavlov
03-16-2007, 11:35 AM
So, it's all downt to asking a Rounder and EdgeBevel upgrade so that they can work on open edges too ;)


bye
Paolo

Surrealist.
03-16-2007, 12:07 PM
Pretty much. Though that was not the direction the thread turned from what I can see. It seemed to be a "rounder and edge bevel don't work" even though you started it out about open ends. So if we are back to that, it is another issue I guess.

Zach
03-16-2007, 03:40 PM
There's a really good plugin for LightWave Modeler that works really awesome for beveling edges, but it is a little pricey. It's called modo.

I'm sorry, I just had to say that. Edge bevel is killing me!

Surrealist.
03-16-2007, 04:14 PM
Funny.

How does it work in Modo?

Can you post a screen grab?

giacob
03-16-2007, 07:07 PM
couldnt agree more with pavlov.. we need something more flexible, direct and user friendly... we dont have to worry about this and that every time we are trying to rounding the edges of our geometry... i dont rember to have such problem with 3dmax

Zach
03-16-2007, 09:06 PM
the edge bevel in modo is a little bit of rounder and edge bevel put . It's similar to XSI in that respect, but modo bevel is more solid. It just works.

I think they should change the name from modo to bevel really. The nice thing about modo is that it has the same sensiblities as our beloved LightWave, but a little more flexible.

Anyway, these screen shots have been impossible for me to accomplish in LightWave, and I'm wondering why. Every time I do the same operations, it looks like lw_edgebevel.gif.

I read on xsiblog (i think) that the guy who put in the compositor was just that, one person. Hopefully NewTek has the resources to put more than one person on the modeler. I know developing software is often a thankless job, but maybe we can get a better implementation of Edge Bevel and Rounder, or at least one that isn't so hyper-tempermental.

Edit:
By the way, the modo screen shots are animated gifs.

Surrealist.
03-16-2007, 10:23 PM
Not sure why you get that either.

Rounder works fine for me. You might try deleting the plugin and reloading it, even deleting it's config file.

I thought you were going to show modo on open edges.

Anyway here's mine. Last one is a combo of edge bevel and rounder stuff. I even tried it on a boolean box which I thought for sure would trip it up. Make sure and merge points after you boolean. Beyond that I don't know why it is not working for you other than it is corrupt.

Surrealist.
03-16-2007, 10:30 PM
couldnt agree more with pavlov.. we need something more flexible, direct and user friendly... we dont have to worry about this and that every time we are trying to rounding the edges of our geometry... i dont rember to have such problem with 3dmax

The basic function of rounder is very straight forward. If you start getting into complex shapes then you have to open up the mumeric requester and play with some settings. That is completely reasonable. For examples of what I mean by complex look at my first examples.

The only thing you have to remember is to use it with surrounding faces. Play with it, you'll soon see how functional it really is to make some nice geometry.

Welome by the way. I see this is your first post.

Happy modeling. :)

Zach
03-17-2007, 01:01 PM
Oh my god, I'm a big idiot. Never thought that I'd have to merge points after a boolean operation. I guess if I had switched to sub-d i'd have had a clue!

Thanks for the enlightenment Surrealist, it works great!

Zach
03-17-2007, 01:20 PM
Sorry about those screen shots, I didn't read the entirety of the post. Here's the modo shot with the open edge. Ok, i'm done posting screen shots of other apps.

Surrealist.
03-17-2007, 09:14 PM
Never thought that I'd have to merge points after a boolean operation.

If only everything were that simple to solve! :D

Glad you got it sorted out.

Thanks for the screen shot on the open edges. That is very cool and also a nice looking interface.

BTW I wonder if anybody has put in a feautre request for this?

Mr Maze
06-02-2007, 11:18 PM
I love this thread.

I have had the hardest time getting rounder to work on extruded type or any other object which I had used booleans on. Now I can do it perfectly!!!!!!!!

Thank you Surrealist.

Surrealist.
06-06-2007, 09:21 PM
Glad you found it useful. :)

Andyjaggy
06-06-2007, 10:47 PM
Yes rounder does work but it requires some gentle caressing and a few prayers. Once you figure out it quirks though you can get some use out of it. In some ways I actually like it because it is picky, usually when it doesn't work I know I have something funky going on with my geometry. My biggest complaint though is I wish it would work on open geometry. I had having to extrude my shapes out round it, and then delete the extruded part. A waste of time.