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View Full Version : Tech Demo of a modeling tool for Modo.



Ivan D. Young
12-10-2006, 08:23 PM
Did anyone see this Video of Demo tools that are being made for Modo.
http://content.luxology.com/modo/201/video/modoTechPreview.mov
I was wondering if something like this, might be eventually made for LW? I mean technology is not going to stay still, and it starting to look like poly by poly modeling will not always be with us. It is just a Question, I realise that it might be a while for it to get implemented, since Newtek is pretty busy fixing up LW as we speak.

Ivan D. Young
12-10-2006, 08:25 PM
Oh I would like to add, just for the record I am not a Modo fan. I just think that poly painting technology definately seems to be the future. I want LW to keep up that is all.

Intuition
12-10-2006, 08:33 PM
Well, I love modo. The best thing about it is that my recent use of modeling in Modo has provided really nice integration with Lightwave.

It has a native LWO saver, not an export but an actual "Save as *.LWO" that makes using models with LW a breeze.

I can only imagine this tech demo making a case for an even easier sculpts into LW even easier then Zbrush or Mudbox. Its not really that hard to get stuff from Zbrush or Mudbox if you take the time to learn a few simple key things but Modo looks to even make that process even more simple.

Bravo.

moc
12-10-2006, 11:19 PM
IMHO...
I think this demo not so impression...
because it's a little bit rough at the mesh scuplting....looks like add a mask while brushing bumps.....(maybe related to the subpatch values..)....
It's not show much details.....that nearly zbrush/mudbox can done.........
Hope it will be better when I get it...

Werner
12-11-2006, 02:10 AM
I think it looks fantastic. They are growing very fast.

cresshead
12-11-2006, 03:42 AM
as the audio podcast said though it's a tech demo...not anything that's going to be available in the short term..he stated that if your needing a zbrush or mudbox 'right now' you should go get them and no waitfor this to appear in modo anytime soon..having said all of that it appears that mdod is actually playing catch up to hexagon 2.1 and silo2 beta except with those apps you can go get them now and do displacement painting as for mdod vs lw well modo has a long way to go before it will add a timeline, bones,particles etc...until then it's a nice modeler and stills renderer.

Thomas
12-11-2006, 04:59 AM
Yes that looks really nice!

BTW, they have a -$30 bucks december special on ImageSynth, hhmmm...


Regards
Thomas

Ztreem
12-11-2006, 05:26 AM
..having said all of that it appears that mdod is actually playing catch up to hexagon 2.1 and silo2 beta except with those apps you can go get them now and do displacement painting

I'll just have to add that Hexagon is so slow in displacement painting it's almost useless. I had the chance to test Mudbox and it's so fast that Hexagon looks like a snail stuck in glue. I'll wait for Mudbox it will do what I want in a nice interface and environment. Modo looks alot faster and more useful than hexagon. I must say that I'm quite impressed with the speed of Modo development, I really hope we soon will see some speed up's in the LW development as well. I think LW development has started to show some nice stuff, but I wish it was a little bit faster, that's all.

tyrot
12-11-2006, 06:08 AM
dear mudbox users

does mudbox have native LWO import? Can we see anything modelled with LW exported to MUDBOX rendered in LW....?

BTW. If mudbox doesnt talk friendly with LW, Modo could be (i cant believe i said that) a real alternative to Mudbox and ZBrush.

Hey NT, is there any plans on that issue ? or One genius plugin writer will added this feature in future to our tool set?

I believe Victor (lwcad master) can come up with this feature if he wants to dive in...may be just for this displacement mapping (mudbox like) NT can work with a 3rd party externally... After LWCAD, he can really code "LWART".

When we see this kind of improvements are natural expansion of any modelling set, NT should reply it immediately (internally or externally)... what do you say ?

best

cresshead
12-11-2006, 06:18 AM
''After LWCAD, he can really code "LWART"

now woudnt that be neat!

Captain Obvious
12-11-2006, 07:13 AM
It has a native LWO saver, not an export but an actual "Save as *.LWO" that makes using models with LW a breeze.
I love that. It's a bit like Photoshop. If you open a PNG, edit it and then hit "Save," it's saved as a PNG. If you want to keep the layers and such, you just save it as a PSD instead. Same thing in modo. Open an LWO, edit it and hit ctrl/cmd S, and it's still an LWO.

Ztreem
12-11-2006, 07:45 AM
does mudbox have native LWO import? Can we see anything modelled with LW exported to MUDBOX rendered in LW....?


It has .OBJ import which works fine with LW.

Mylenium
12-11-2006, 12:45 PM
having said all of that it appears that mdod is actually playing catch up to hexagon 2.1 and silo2 beta except with those apps you can go get them now and do displacement painting

Nope, definitely not. Even that little tec demo illustrates what it is meant to be - fully fledged sculpting, not just some simple displacement painting as in Silo and Hexagon. And neither of those are really available now, as you put it. Silo is still officially in Beta, with major parts of the displacements not working or disabled and Hexagon is buggy as ****.



as for mdod vs lw well modo has a long way to go before it will add a timeline, bones,particles etc...until then it's a nice modeler and stills renderer.

Well, don't keep your hopes up. modo is going to have a timeline soon, that's for sure and they already have proven that they can do working bones and particles, so "long" is probably not as long as you think. Even now it already allows to render animations by means of some scripts...

Mylenium

cresshead
12-11-2006, 01:03 PM
hi Mylenium do you have any video links to the timeline, bones and particles for modo?

as for hexagon and silo...the beta is available NOW for silo.. and hexagon does do displacement painting now even if it is rather buggy in use.

modo is not available now for public beta with the tec demo features no doubt it will come out next august and make a big splash at siggraph.

Captain Obvious
12-11-2006, 01:16 PM
hi Mylenium do you have any video links to the timeline, bones and particles for modo?
Anything that can export as MDD should work well.

bobakabob
12-11-2006, 03:30 PM
This is good news. Zbrush's sub pixel displacement and paint tools represent a quantum leap in modelling. Now all the other apps including new contenders like Mudbox have to show they're serious about staying in the race.

Modeler IMHO for many years has been the most intuitive poly modeller out there but it's beginning to feel worryingly neglected. Let's hope Newtek continue to invest resources in bringing it up to date. :lwicon:

SplineGod
12-12-2006, 02:44 AM
Zbrush
Mudbox
Hexagon
Silo
Blender
Curvey 3D
and others
are implementing or have implemented displacement painting with the ability to export displacement and normal maps. Its getting to be a standard feature in many apps and will only serve to drive the price down which is good for us. I wouldnt be surprised to see it appear in the 9.x dev cycle at some point. Ive also heard rumors of cool stuff coming for body paint as well, displacement painting probably wouldnt be far fetched.

Mylenium
12-12-2006, 03:03 AM
hi Mylenium do you have any video links to the timeline, bones and particles for modo?

as for hexagon and silo...the beta is available NOW for silo.. and hexagon does do displacement painting now even if it is rather buggy in use.

modo is not available now for public beta with the tec demo features no doubt it will come out next august and make a big splash at siggraph.

Check the SIGGRAPH 2005 videos and you can see it all at play.

Mylenium

cresshead
12-12-2006, 03:28 AM
i tried google but only came up with this...
http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=33946

do you have any links?

tyrot
12-12-2006, 03:30 AM
I wouldnt be surprised to see it appear in the 9.x dev cycle at some point. Ive also heard rumors of cool stuff coming for body paint as well, displacement painting probably wouldnt be far fetched.

dear SplineGod

-Do you know something about it? Come on tell it,right here, right now on this very modo tech thread :)

- I didnt know BP3 will have displacement mapping...hmm it would be lovely to dive in then..


Best

SplineGod
12-12-2006, 05:04 AM
Dont know anything and even if I did know anything I still wouldnt know anything :)
Either way you slice things it makes sense that Newtek will add these tools probably sooner then later.
As far as BP3 all Ive heard are rumors of something big coming. It also makes sense that it would have something to do with displacement painting. :)

cresshead
12-12-2006, 05:48 AM
BP3 = bodypaint 3 from maxon btw [i think!]

Ivan D. Young
12-12-2006, 10:30 AM
There is also a story that Photoshop CS 3 will also be able to load models and paint them inside of Photoshop. This is sort of off topic, I just wanted to know if at some point over the next year and a half if poly painting, or displacement painting could make it into LW. Looking at Splinedgod's list though it might be a necessity.

Nicolas Jordan
12-12-2006, 11:17 AM
I wouldnt be surprised to see it appear in the 9.x dev cycle at some point.

I'm not holding my breath on this one. I have already jumped on the Modo bandwagon because of it's painting tools. Seems the Lightwave dev team will have lots on it's plate for a while with all they plan to do. The only way I can see this happening is if Newtek buys some 3rd party technology and integrates it into Lightwave, even if they did this I would still be a bit surprised.

colkai
12-12-2006, 01:56 PM
It is, as they say, a big ask.
As you say Nj, with everything else they have to address, I'd be stunned if they managed to get all this and more in. Logic dictates it's unlikely. (Not to say I don't think it would be uber-cool and would grab it with both hands! ;) )

GraphXs
12-12-2006, 03:36 PM
Does Maya, Max, XSI have displacement painting features? I don't believe they do? It would be great to see Newtek implement such a feature, not sure if they could do it in the 9.x cycle. What about some type of plug-in that does it? Or isnít that what Z-Brush, MudBox, BP already offer. Maybe their prices will drop because its more competitive.

cresshead
12-12-2006, 03:47 PM
not one to pull people off topic here but i'd sooner see new character animation capabilities than a displacement painter in lightwave 9.x...

displacement painters are becoming common place....top character animation tools arn't!

hrgiger
12-12-2006, 03:56 PM
I'd be surprised to see it in the 9.x cycle, but I think Larry is right, I think it's just a matter of time before we get displacement painting in Lightwave. I just hope there is some innovative thinking when its implemented on Newtek's part, rather then just them racing to try and bring something that is becoming an industry standard tool to Lightwave.

Nicolas Jordan
12-12-2006, 03:56 PM
not one to pull people off topic here but i'd sooner see new character animation capabilities than a displacement painter in lightwave 9.x...

displacement painters are becoming common place....top character animation tools arn't!

:agree: I also believe the advancement of character rigging and animation in Lightwave is far more important than painting tools at the moment.

Exception
12-12-2006, 04:02 PM
Is it just me or does all that stuff look not so new and not so difficult to implement?
I mean.. it's amazing, yes, but it's just 3D photoshop isn't it? you have your blur, your burn and dodge tool, your twirl and just paintbrush...
How hard can it be to just intersect those mouse movements with whichever axis you're looking at the model, and apply those as if it were 2D but then expanded into the Z axis? Seems like basic conceptual programming ideas to me.

Now, I don't have any use for these tools as I'm doing architecture mostly, where precision rather than sculptability is a must, but there must be someone out there who can make these things for lw?

hrgiger
12-12-2006, 04:05 PM
Referring back to the poll I started for features for Lightwave 8.x and beyond:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24777

Let's see where we're at-

Subsurface scattering-----------Check
Edge Weighting-----------------Check
Instancing of Geometry----------Reported as on it's way in the 9.x cycle
NGON support with SDS---------Check
Muscle-skinning system tools----who knows yet with the CA improvements coming
Parametric Modeling-------------No, but LWCAD 2.1 has brought me more then I could have asked for
Non-Linear Morphs--------------No, not natively. But again, who knows yet what the CA improvements will bring. Same goes for:
IK/FK Blending

Not sure if anything has been done in the way of Photon maps.

But 3D paint was the most requested feature on both polls so if Newtek is listening, adding this feature, especially with displacement painting, would go over very well with its userbase.

hrgiger
12-12-2006, 04:12 PM
Is it just me or does all that stuff look not so new and not so difficult to implement?


Well no, the concepts don't seem that difficult or groundbreaking, but then I'm not a graphics programmer. It seems to me that displacement painting has to deal well with displacing millions of polygons and and a program to be effective has to do that well. Lightwave has received some nice speed boosts with the new OGL and has removed a few large bottlenecks from its pipeline but I'm sure that a lot more is involved then adding some dodge, burn, and paintbrush tools. But yes, I see the point you are getting at and it seem like the technology is widespread enough that a group of talented programmers would probaby have no problems finding good research material on implementing such a tool. I'm sure that Newtek is quite busy still dealing wtih the parallel changeover of the rewrite so it's probably just a matter of due time.

Exception
12-12-2006, 04:36 PM
I'd like to add that for the architectural community, of which i am one, a whole different set of requirements has either been fulfilled or is under way. There remains lots to be done, but the following additions have been paramount for our field:

-Spherical/ortographic cameras
-Ehrm, some stuff only discussed in the 9.2 forums
-Baking camera
-OpenGl speed
-Instancing on its way

Stuff to still deal with that are vital...

Light plugin class
GI performance
Snaps / UCS
Vector in/output
Large resolution rendering
Clones in modeler (blocks)