View Full Version : Shave 2 for LightWave

06-13-2003, 06:36 PM
'Nuff said.

06-13-2003, 07:33 PM
I heard Newtek and Joe declared holy war on each other long ago.

06-13-2003, 10:52 PM
Nah, the people that pissed off joe are gone. :)

06-14-2003, 05:01 PM
Never used Shave. Is it good?...I mean, better than sas?


06-14-2003, 05:41 PM
It does some things better, some things worse. I still think overall Sas is better IMO. Also Worley doesnt have the tendency to abandon end users when things dont suit him. Follow thru is a good thing.

06-14-2003, 06:22 PM
with shave, you can grow, comb, and stylize hair interactively, that's the greatest advantage over sasquatch. ... and it's not a pixel filter, so it may work with reflection, raytracing ect..

06-15-2003, 12:26 AM
with HairSpray, suddenly you want to open a Hairdressing Salon :p

06-15-2003, 08:34 AM
I have HairSpray; and while it is sure an improvement, it is not comparable to Shave styling -- it is still a very manual, time-consuming, trial-and-error process.

Can't someone from Newtek please call Joe and smooth things over -- even if it wasn't Newtek's fault. You'd be surprised how much difference a simple call can make.

Give Sas onto fur, and Shave onto hair. I can't see why these two can't peacefully coexist.

06-15-2003, 09:26 AM
Agree I have both Shave (with dongle) and Sas (full). I really would like to see that Newtek get back to Joe and help Joe to help us and Newtek by making Shave&Haircut available again to the LW community.

06-15-2003, 10:04 AM
Joe pissed off cause SasLite was packed with LW.
Additionally he abandoned his mailing list leaving behind hundreds of people.
His pass from LW was occasional and temporary it seems.

Worley had been a gentleman for many years, extremely supportive for his clients, developing awesome tools.

Joe is welcome, but people wont stand similar behaviour again.

06-15-2003, 10:10 AM
Sas is a faster renderer not to mention, the quality is better. I know because I sold my Shave to get Sas... I don't know about Shave 2, maybe it's a big improvement... I'm looking forward to Sas2...

As far as I know, Joe was planning to bring Shave back to LW, that was the last I heard.

It would be nice to have a hair modeling tool in Sas, but I don't think necessary. I like being able to use LW's tools on the guide hairs for Sas and it's pretty easy to animate the hair with MD.

06-15-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by thomey
Agree I have both Shave (with dongle) and Sas (full). I really would like to see that Newtek get back to Joe and help Joe to help us and Newtek by making Shave&Haircut available again to the LW community.
I pretty sure Newtek has gotten back with him. Joe also has a problem with follow thru/finishing what he started. They way he left ppl hanging for whatever reason was not cool. It makes me leary about purchasing other products. Worley, on the other hand, has been great as Panikos said.

06-15-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by hrgiger
I like being able to use LW's tools on the guide hairs for Sas and it's pretty easy to animate the hair with MD.


I would be interested in knowing what would happen to your head model if you were to lay it on a plane and add gravity. This is where I run into problems with things like mesh penetration and guide distortion. If you don't have these type of problems, I would be very interested in knowing how you are spacing the vertices on the chains and what MD values you are applying to the chains -- that is, if you don't mind sharing.


06-15-2003, 06:07 PM

You'll find the settings I've used here:


I'm not sure what you mean by laying the head on a flat plane and adding gravity. I usually do add some negative value to gravity in the MD panel. Gravity is very important for hair since it tends to keep it from flopping about too madly and sticking up on it's ends.

I generally will build all the hair strands with 5-10 point splines and then when I have a section built, I"ll mirror it to the other side, run the curve2poly plugin (which automatically names the first point root and the rest of the polys hair). Then once I have my polychains, I'll usually cut and paste the splines to another layer in the event I want to modify them later and reconvert them to guide hairs. Then, I'll build another section.

I think the most important part of the process though is having fixed polygons on the first part of your chain. Normally, you deem the root of the hair "fixed" in the MD panel, but I also make sure to deem the first one or two polys in the guide chain fixed also. Basically, all the hairs that are sprouting from the head must be fixed and not allowed to move to make the collision detection work.

06-15-2003, 06:25 PM

You've got some pretty interesting settings, as I have not used such strong sub and hold structures before. Also, I only fixed the root (single) poly, which could also be causing my problems. Do you just manually create part names for these first polys after running Curve2Poly (so as separate them from the rest of the guide)?

What I meant by laying the head on a plane is that in my scene, my character is lying down.

Do you just let Curve2Poly automatically space the vertices in the guide?

Again, thanks for the help.

06-15-2003, 09:31 PM
Some shave features:

A hilight on the polygon hair export in particular.


06-16-2003, 02:40 PM
The thing to keep in mind is that Lightwave is available on the Mac as well as the PC. Jo Alter seems to think that Mac users are irrelevant. There should be little wonder why Newtek went for Sasquatch rather than Shave and HairCut.

06-16-2003, 02:50 PM
shave and haircut for cinema4D is available for Mac though. So it shows Joe will make a version for Mac as long as he thinks there is money to be made.

06-16-2003, 03:15 PM
Shave for Maya, I believe, will also be available for the Mac.

06-16-2003, 03:49 PM
At the time Shave was available Lightwave and before Newtek had incorperated Sas Lite into Lightwave, it was PC only. Many Mac users requested a Mac version of the software but nothing ever came. Same goes for a Lipsinc. If Jo got annoyed at Newtek for going with Worley Labs and Sasquatch he only has himself to blame.

06-16-2003, 05:15 PM
You don't honesty believe the split between NewTek and Alter was because of a lack of a Mac version?


Please. If they are so concerned about you Mac users, why are they offering DFX+, which only works on a PC?

06-16-2003, 09:01 PM
Yes, I think that had a lot to do with it. The fastest way for Newtek to lose Mac customers is for them to starts making major features in Lightwave for PC customers only.

06-16-2003, 09:41 PM
He had a beta mac version. I saw screen grabs of it. He got his XSI deal at about the same time, It's understandable why he never finished it. I'm sure most of the basework for the mac LW version was reused into the cinema one.


06-27-2003, 08:34 AM
In all seriousness, if Joe were to bring back a version of Shave for Lightwave, I don't feel I could support it, no matter how good it was.

I thought the way Joe abandoned his customers was discraceful, and taking down the Shave forum without any warning was very childish and showed a total lack of respect for the people that had purchased his programs.
Even if I were to swallow my pride and purchase a new (if it ever happened) release, every minute from the time I parted with money I would be wondering when the plug was going to be pulled.

The last word from the unofficial LW-Shave forum was that Joe was reported to have said (about a month ago), "over his dead body", so I assume that there are still some personal issues.

06-27-2003, 07:08 PM
Hell yes! and kill that motherf*cker bastard :)


06-27-2003, 07:26 PM
I hear hes doing a new version called Tar and Feather :)

06-28-2003, 12:02 PM
:) That's a really good one Larry!! hehe really funny

06-28-2003, 12:18 PM
the next version of "shave" will be out this summer for max, posted by splutterfish wo mmake the brazil renderer for 3dsmax.

steve g

06-28-2003, 08:59 PM
Hey Larry, Just a question...I saw your Gollum but you never completed him right? What happen?


06-28-2003, 09:32 PM
If I'm not mistaking Shave has instancing also.

06-28-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by cavalos
Hey Larry, Just a question...I saw your Gollum but you never completed him right? What happen?

Im still messing with the model as I have time. :)

06-30-2003, 05:22 PM
I think the model is good but you can do much more with textures in order to add realism to your "precious" :)
Have you seen the Gollum posted on CG channel about two months ago done in XSI? man! thatīs work was amazing, I think the guy rendered it with HDRI.


caustic wave
07-07-2003, 05:59 AM
sorry, im new to this.

what happened to joe-whats going on. I am a new student to the lightwave community.

with science, all dreams come true Shaukat Sheri

07-07-2003, 08:58 AM
Joe decided to screw over his customers over an 'arguement' with Newtek... Aaahhhh, it's people like that that really make the industry, the INDUSTRY....

I'm not buying anything from the bloke again, that's for sure...

07-07-2003, 02:52 PM
Now I get where that derogatory comment about lwavers came from...