View Full Version : SubDo: Any LW9 users trying this out?

11-13-2006, 12:57 PM
SubDo, the french interactive 3D authoring application being bundled with LW9 by Newtek Europe, looks to be a very nice package especially compared to trying to do the same type of interaction using Adobe Director MX. Nice, straight forward interface, and access to rather complex interactions via menus instead of pull-your-hair-out brute force via Lingo programming one is forced to do in Director.

Be warned, though... the full-function, 30-day demo is a 120 meg download ( www.subdo.com (http://www.subdo.com) ).

With support for importing native LW scenes and objects (v6 and up), one assumes LW9.x is included since it's being bundled with LW9. However, when I import a v9.0 LWS (Documents tab), SubDo promptly crashes. The scene has one object in 10 layers, one camera, 3 distant lights, a couple nulls as parents of a couple layers, simple keyframe animation (no deformations) over 40 frames, and simple, single-layer image textures. A very basic and uncomplicated scene with quite simple, low poly objects.

Anyone have experience using SubDo and LW9 yet?


11-13-2006, 02:31 PM
I'm very interested in this one too, but I'm drowning in work at the moment.
(hoping to have time at christmas to test, but dont know if the NTE offer will last that long (?)

I'm really only interested in pdf export right now, I think it is pointless to ask anyone to install web plugins, or send .exe's these days.

Does is just produce the U3D part of the PDF or can you author complete interactive documents?

I went to their gallery, and there are much fewer PDFs than any other format, which is a bit of a niggle. Plus, the first one I opened crashed Acrobat...

11-13-2006, 02:39 PM
I found the 3D engine rather slow. Tried the demo on a laptop with amd mobile athlon 2400+ and radeon 9600. I don't have much comparison, I can only compare pim against it, and pim is lightyears ahead.


Nigel Baker
11-13-2006, 02:58 PM
Hi Stero Mike,

Can you tell me what is PIM?
Have been interested in SubDO and also Acrobat 3D.
So if there is another form of software outthere, I would like to see it.


11-13-2006, 03:42 PM
Just opened subdo, cause i upped the gfx drivers to ati omega drivers yesterday. Works much better now. With the old drivers it was nearly unusable, please forget my previous post.

@Nigel: Poetry In Motion aka PIM is a javascript compliant highend 3d engine developed by Enki. It's beta right now so you can't get it yet. It's faster then everything you can think of hehehe. And tho Subdo works now smoothly on my machine ,PIM outperforms it for sure. But Subdo has a nice gui, so to get quick results without seeing a line of code it should be pretty fine, and it's available right now. So if you need the functions, buy what is available.
also search this board for "pim"


11-13-2006, 05:45 PM
Well, over on the LW newsgroup this same question was asked that wasn't answered here. Well, I guess it was asked a week or so ago. Anyway, Sebastienc of V2B/SubDo replied that, yes, SubDo 1.60 is broken re. LWS/LWO import and that 1.62 that fixes this will be released in a couple days.

Isn't PIM open source and thus free? I didn't spend a lot of time investigating this, but the idea of the render/viewer being contained in a java applet is very intriguing. But, sadly, PIM doesn't do 3D PDFs.

Re. SubDo PDFs, there's a video demo showing the steps you take in the save as or export dialog to create a PDF. You draw out the size you want the 3D "canvas" to be on a PDF "piece of paper" and that's about it. Save and open it in acrobat... seems easy as pie... if pie is easy.

11-13-2006, 05:52 PM
Ummm... why are EDITS to post time limited to an extremely brief 2 minute window???

Now I have to go and clutter up this thread with this here post to correct a typo I didn't catch in that too short a time. So, is this what NT wants? More posts instead of re-edits?

I meant to say...

Isn't PIM open source and thus free? I didn't spend a lot of time investigating their site, but the idea of the render/viewer being contained in a java applet is very intriguing. But, sadly, PIM doesn't do 3D PDFs.

11-14-2006, 02:42 AM
errr... no, pim isn't a java engine, it is programmable via javascript, means you can do complex games and apps. A 3d engine inside a javaapplet couldn't be as fast as pim. It exports screensavers, .exe and webpages (little pim-webplayer needed). e.g. you could programm a kioskterminal with mindbending 3D effects, you can integrate live camerainput, live chromakeying, ah, it's easyier to tell what's not in the package...
It's not open source, and I don't think it ever will be. Enki was writing 3D engines for around 10 years, so you can guess what amount of work and knowledge is in the software.

11-14-2006, 04:06 AM
...yeh pim tools looks great, always has, but thats all it does, it is still unavailable, with an incomplete website that hasnt updated for ...how long? 2 years?

..will be giving subdo a whirl myself, given up on pim personally..

11-14-2006, 09:42 AM
yeah pim tools long story
for me it took to long (for now)
i am now very happy with quest3d
very fast and easy to use
just try the demo

11-20-2006, 11:39 AM
Hi all,

If you have any questions about Subdo with or without Lightwave, contact me : [email protected]

Best regards,


11-20-2006, 11:47 AM
Hi all,

About subdo crash with lw files, this problem has been corrected, try SUBDO 1.62.


Two versions : without examples: 95mo with examples 340mo



11-20-2006, 01:31 PM
yeah pim tools long story
for me it took to long (for now)
i am now very happy with quest3d
very fast and easy to use
just try the demo

dear Lion

actually there is a reason for that. PIM is a huge achivement in 3D application history. There is nothing like it and i think for a long there will be nothing even come close to it. And Enki is a different genius, he knows his tool and its amazing possibilities but he never rushes anything. When it comes out 3d-Web-Rendering technology developers lock themselves in a dungeon and cry for years..Because some of the EXE files we are playing with PIM totally out of our time..

So that s why we all gotta wait for True 3D revolution and learn Javascript in our spare times...

And as i mentioned earlier Enki is a different human being and even his current achivements (we are not allowed to talk about it) light years beyond our current technology. Not just Rendering or web or interactivity or walkthrough many other HI-End features will be supported...

So i know you need to earn your money with something right now...But future belongs to PIM ...


11-23-2006, 09:04 PM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58561 . check out this thread the rare and exotic enki makes his appearance in the wild and wows the crowd!!!!

11-23-2006, 09:17 PM
StereoMike, how do you know speed of PIM before being it released? Do you have alpha/beta on disk to compare it (in speed department at least) with "other solutions"?

11-24-2006, 05:37 AM
@ Sensei: Yes. Beta Tester.

12-04-2006, 07:23 AM
I bought Subdo as part of the VizCAd package from Newtek Europe, but was very disappointed to find that the animated cross section tool does not work with Lightwave files as I had been led to believe. I wish I had known this before I bought the upgrade, as this was the reason I got Subdo.
I have been using Director with the Chrome Lib behaviors which I find easy to use, but of course if you haven't already got Director or want a 3D PDF file then Subdo is probably currently your only reasonably priced option - just don't expect it to do cross sections.

12-04-2006, 07:37 AM
want a 3D PDF file then Subdo is probably currently your only reasonably priced option - just don't expect it to do cross sections.

Acrobat 3D makes 3D PDFs in a snap, and interactive cross-sections are easy with it (dont know about non-interactive pre-animated, but would have to assume they are not a problem either)

12-04-2006, 08:02 AM
@ Stokeymike
Is there no way to achieve that cross section thing with lwo models? One of the demo projects is a head being "x-rayed". Very cool, but that would be sad, if you can't use lwo for that...

12-04-2006, 08:34 AM
According to Vincent Rousseaux of VB2S:

"For the cross section, meshes are surfasic and not volumic. We don't create faces in hole. In 3Dreal time it's impossible to do that"

"when you create a mesh in Lightwav, your meh are empty and not full. It is jsute a surface, that we call surfasic mesh"

"It's just impossible in 3D real time, to create faces beetween a mesh and a cross section."

He does suggest fading from one model to another, but for me that's just not quite the same thing.

12-05-2006, 05:49 AM
I had previously tried out Subdo with lwo files.
I have just tried to use an animated LW9 scene in the new improved Subdo 1.62 (the version that works?) I made sure that the object and the scene were in the same directory, as Subdo does not like separate directories. Most of the layers did not show up and the rest appeared to have been in an accident. I thought this might just be a one-off, so I made a simpler hierarchical object and imported it into Subdo.The result was absolute chaos. I had created and animated a simple crane object in LW9. The moving parts did not appear at all in Subdo, and the part that did not move in Lightwave appeared to split into three then fly off the screen. Needless to say, I am more than a bit fed up with Subdo.

12-06-2006, 05:59 AM
I have been informed that there is an import problem with .lws files and this is due to be fixed with Subdo v1.63.

12-06-2006, 08:29 AM
Subdo support have now demonstrated that the cross sections can be done but they need a double sided material applied within Subdo. I find that the imported objects need to have as thin an original cross section as possible for it to work, though, i.e. as if made of sheet metal and the cross section size needs to be set low in Subdo.

12-06-2006, 09:52 AM
I have been informed that there is an import problem with .lws files

didnt you know that already? ;) joking

thanks for the updates, and it appears they are addressing your specific problems AND providing fast solutions? Good stuff.

12-11-2006, 04:11 AM
Hi Stokeymike,

After send you the cross section video i think you understand now how the subdo cross section works.

Remenber it is not a boolean operation but a cross section operation not the same thing.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to contacts us


Sebastienc / Subdo