PDA

View Full Version : OT: Core 2 Duo and Apple's Marketing...



jeremyhardin
11-09-2006, 04:12 AM
Ok, I just went to the new Macbook page (http://www.apple.com/macbook/intel.html), and I was surprised to learn that Core 2 Duo was 64 bit.

I had initially thought it was 64bit, but when I went to the Macbook Pro page (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/intel.html) a while back, there was no mention of it being 64bit. So I just assumed I was wrong.

So why would apple fail to mention that on their pro line, then tell consumer-level customers about it right away?

BeeVee
11-09-2006, 05:02 AM
That's because Core Duo was only 32-bit. It's Core 2 Duo that's 64...

B

jeremyhardin
11-09-2006, 05:04 AM
That's because Core Duo was only 32-bit. It's Core 2 Duo that's 64...

B
That's exactly what I mean though. Core 2 Duo came to MBP before it came to the MB. But Apple never mentioned 64 bit when it came to the MBP first. Does that make sense? If you go to the MBP link above, there's still no mention of 64 bit there.

Captain Obvious
11-09-2006, 05:50 AM
I guess they'll start mentioning it once Leopard approaches.

Chilton
11-09-2006, 06:06 AM
Hi Jeremy,

I asked the same question when the first MBP with a C2D chip shipped. I think it is very significant that almost all of their Macs are now 64-bit, as well as Intel based.

-Chilton

Captain Obvious
11-09-2006, 08:33 AM
Everything but the Mac mini, in fact.

LSlugger
11-09-2006, 03:21 PM
The recently released Xcode 2.4 now supports the x86_64 target, in addition to i386, ppc, and ppc64. Can someone with a 64-bit Intel Mac post the output of the following command:


$ file /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib: Mach-O fat file with 2 architectures
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture ppc): Mach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture ppc64): Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library ppc64

jeremyhardin
11-09-2006, 03:51 PM
The recently released Xcode 2.4 now supports the x86_64 target, in addition to i386, ppc, and ppc64. Can someone with a 64-bit Intel Mac post the output of the following command:


$ file /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib: Mach-O fat file with 2 architectures
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture ppc): Mach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture ppc64): Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library ppc64

Very curious about this as well. (thus the quote.)

Matt
11-09-2006, 06:20 PM
Cool, so if I bought a Core Duo 2 proc' for my machine (and associated hardware) plus Windows 64 I could use LW 64?

byte_fx
11-09-2006, 08:07 PM
If you could figure out a way to install it.

Currently Boot Camp only supports 32 bit XP SP2.

XP 64 bit has a bunch of problems Apple didn't want to address. Poor driver support, very crash prone (I know this for a fact - see my sig), etc.

Not to mention Apple may have considered the incongruity of being able to run 64 bit apps under Windows on a Mac when, effectively, 64 bit apps won't run under OS X Tiger.

It's moot anyway - without > 4 gig of ram there's no point in running a 64 bit app under Windows.

byte_fx

dglidden
11-11-2006, 12:43 AM
The recently released Xcode 2.4 now supports the x86_64 target, in addition to i386, ppc, and ppc64. Can someone with a 64-bit Intel Mac post the output of the following command:

Ask and ye shall receive. This is brand new MacBook Pro with Core 2 Duo and 10.4.8:



phoenix:~ dglidden$ file /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib: Mach-O universal binary with 4 architectures
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture ppc): Mach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture ppc64): Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library ppc64
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture i386): Mach-O dynamically linked shared library i386
/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64


So yes, there's 64-bit stuff in there. I have been fooling with Xcode 2.4 a little bit since I got it, but I'm still not familiar enough with Xcode (always been a Makefile kinda guy) to figure out how to make it output anything interesting like 64-bit binaries, or even Universal binaries yet, for that matter.

Leopard, a.k.a. 10.5 is going to be the interesting one since it will be fully 64-bit through-and-through. 10.4 is 64-bit at the Darwin level, but anything that runs through Aqua is not. So you can technically write 64-bit apps now as long as they are command-line. Look at the way something like Mathematica works where it starts up a "kernel" process as a daemon and the GUI just connects to it via shared memory or a socket, and you can see that it's not at all unreasonable way to program when you have that kind of limitation, but Leopard will certainly make it all easier.

I guess the question to Chilton, which may have been asked somewhere before, and the answer is probably going to be one of his inscrutable "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you first" answers, is there planned to be a fully 64-bit version of the OS X version of Lightwave any time in the future? i.e. after the UB stuff is all worked out and presumably after Leopard gets here.

jeremyhardin
11-11-2006, 02:35 AM
And since UB LWSN will be commandline, could it be made 64bit even before leopard?

:D

byte_fx
11-11-2006, 08:12 AM
dglidden -

As I recall, based on a composite of Chilton's responses, the current Mac LW development sequence is as follows:

- bug fixes and feature additions ala "9.2" release

- conversion of of LW 9.2 release (along with possibly a few more bug fixes) to UB

- at some point after Leopard is released a 64 bit version of LW for the Mac is planned

How that will fit in with the rest of LW 9's life cycle remains to be seen. Considering that most likely there is some early stage work on a 64 bit version it could come shortly after Leopard's release. By which time LW in general may well be at v 9.2b, v 9.314159 or whatever the next stage is numbered.

Personally - my best guess is that the 64 bit version will be released after the dot rev following 9.2 has been proven to work.

NewTek certainly has a roadmap in place. But even that can be altered by circumstances encountered during the R&D phase of development. Sometimes planned features require more time than planned - other times a kind of epiphany happens and major, sometimes unplanned, advancements fall into place almost overnight.

Such is life in the software development game.

byte_fx

Chilton
11-11-2006, 04:08 PM
Hi byte_fx,



Such is life in the software development game.


Indeed! The truth is, there are still too many variables out there for me to make a solid decision.

1) Are we working on a Universal Binary? Yes
2) When will it ship? Soon

Now, after that, what are our plans? Obviously, the UB enough for me. The way I see it, once we ship that, there's nothing more for me to do. From there on out, it's easy street!

Well, maybe we'll release some dot updates along the way, add some content, maybe change the icon a few times...

After all, the rest of the industry is planning on coming to a halt, right?


-Chilton
(Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits.)