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borkus
11-04-2006, 01:29 PM
has anyone heard from pim in a while. i signed up in their forum about 3 weeks ago and still haven't got the activation email yet. signed up for beta testing and haven't heard anything on that either. have they stopped development? did the company go belly up? it looked so cool too..... but i don't think that i would want a program that has little to no updates or tech support. and we thought newtek took forever with updates and news!!!!!!!

Enki[Mute]
11-04-2006, 02:55 PM
Hello Borkus,

Let me re-assure you that development on pim is going full speed ahead. The beta (no new testers are accepted for now) has caused huge amounts of feedback and we've been very busy incorporating new features and improving
on existing ones. We are committed to releasing a quality product that fits
the needs of our users and will continue to run the beta-program untill we feel that we can provide in the best and most stable rt solution around.

The forum on the website explicitely states that during the beta it will only be available to the testers, and I have given up replying on the daily registrations made (I'm sorry about that - but it does explicitly say it on the forum entrance).

As far as features goes, a huge amount of goodies have been added, from
progressive GPU rendering (featuring hi quality aa, real mb, real dof, area lights ..), over faster avi and mpg streaming to even full live motion capture
support have been added.

Together with the beta team, we have been developping several libraries
of scripts, that will help people getting the most out of pimTools right away.
(ranging from 3D gui over game utilities to archviz and database toolsets).

Many of the beta-testers feel that pimTools in its current version should be
released, but with the development going at this pace, it is not sensible
to start creating legacy. A product can only be in it's first beta once, and
thats the only time where certain changes can still be made. We realize that 'news' has been out on pimTools a long time, something we were forced to do
just to be able to start the beta.

I hope you understand that this will improve on the stability, reliability and
general usability of pimTools when it is released.

Attached are some recent images made with the new progressive renderer.
(they take anywhere between 1 and 5 seconds, made by various beta-testers (Taron, Gwot, Walfridson )

Greetz,


http://www.pimtools.be/downloads/pim_screenie1.jpg
http://www.pimtools.be/downloads/pim_screenie2.jpg
http://www.pimtools.be/downloads/pim_screenie3.jpg
http://www.pimtools.be/downloads/pim_screenie4.jpg
http://www.pimtools.be/downloads/pim_screenie5.jpg

Enki[Mute]
11-04-2006, 02:56 PM
[double posted]

Cageman
11-04-2006, 03:09 PM
Holy crap!

1-5 secs/frame!? The images looks fantastic. These must be some of the best "near realtime" renders I've ever seen comming out of a 3D-package... :)

What will PIM cost when released?

I3D
11-04-2006, 07:37 PM
Enki, thanks allot for sharing these images with us, they look really great and Pim is looking even better than ever. it looks like its' going to be a revolutionary tool.

Can you please elaborate more on the motion capture capabilities of pim. In terms or cleaning, how scalable, what supported system are there, optical or magnetic, is there are an SDK to write our own converter, can it export or share the motion capture data with other applications, how good is exactly pim compared to something like motionbuilder when it comes with dealing with mocap data and finally is it reliable for motion picture production and have it been used to tested in such inviornment? :)

I know allot of questions :) don't give up names, I'm hearing rumors my self about who's using it, so if you can't confirm or say don't, but please give more specification about it. is there any pricing information as well?

Thanks in advance

Cheers

borkus
11-04-2006, 07:49 PM
thanks enki for the news. didn't mean to sound cynical. just was so excited about your product. and i did go back to the site and it did say that the forums were for tester only. my bad. hard seeing something so exciting and not hearing any news. i know you probably can't say much, but can you allude to the release date roughly? mid to late next year? i'll definetly be waiting with my credit card for it's release.

adk
11-04-2006, 08:02 PM
Oh ye great mortals that hold the shining pim god captive, release it from it's lengthy slumber and let it loose upon these barren grounds. We all beseech thee :D:D:D

Enki[Mute]
11-05-2006, 03:11 AM
Can you please elaborate more on the motion capture capabilities of pim. In terms or cleaning, how scalable, what supported system are there, optical or magnetic, is there are an SDK to write our own converter, can it export or share the motion capture data with other applications, how good is exactly pim compared to something like motionbuilder when it comes with dealing with mocap data and finally is it reliable for motion picture production and have it been used to tested in such inviornment? :)


Hey I3D,

PIM's motion capture features have been developped to fill in some of the blanks left by other popular motion capture applications. That doesnt just mean more polygons and more characters in the live preview, but also perfect integration with all of the other pim features, allowing for e.g. distributed rendering (have actors wear goggles ..), over interactive sets (javascript - subscenes), via live video/chromakeying integration to using pim's audio analyser for live lipsync.

Furthermore, a lot of care has been taken into workflow optimisation, resulting in the mocap core writing out full-featured lws files for every take made. Preparing a new scene for motion capture, or handling the results doesnt require conversions of any kind ..

And although I'm still working on the processing core (tuning hidden markov filters, improving IK response, ...), I'm told that the results are quickly matching or exceeding those produced by other popular motion capture solutions. Final precision and stability will depend a lot on the motioncapture hardware being used, but the results obtained with some of the better systems (e.g. phasespace) are spectacular.

The mocap core expects raw marker data ( id + position ), and any mocap system providing that can easily be interfaced. ( pim allows you to use own dll's directly from within the javascript, which makes adding a new mocap driver only slightly more difficult than a walk in the park - often the dll delivered by the mocap system can be used straight from the box. )

And finally, although I cannot give out any specific details, yes the system is designed to be used in motion picture production and is actually being used today by some of the biggest players around.

Hope that answers some of your questions,

Grtz,

e.

Tzan
11-05-2006, 09:24 AM
Thanks for the update Enki !

Auger
11-05-2006, 11:06 AM
Holy crap!

1-5 secs/frame!? The images looks fantastic. These must be some of the best "near realtime" renders I've ever seen comming out of a 3D-package... :)


:agree:

Exciting stuff!!!

Cageman
11-07-2006, 03:57 PM
I'm thinking about getting a Mac-based laptop sometime in the future. Will PIM suppot Macs? I mean, this plugin is something between LW:s own OGL and FPrime, and should certanly be avaliable to all platforms that can run LightWave...

jasonwestmas
11-07-2006, 08:22 PM
May be the answer to my previewing prayers in the future. Hope it works with nodal some day. I would think it would have to if you guys wanted to take advantage of the normal mapping in lw9, no?

jasonwestmas
11-07-2006, 08:30 PM
Well it says on the site that PIM isn't a previewer but why can't it still be in the ball park of what we want for character modeling? I guess there must be some kind of limitation that I'm not seeing. Like support for subpatches etc.

StereoMike
11-08-2006, 04:54 AM
It's far more than a previewer. You can preview your scenes, but more to check timings etc, cause the engine is smooth (like in "unbelievable smooth") for objects that bring LW layout to a halt. But pim really isn't about previewing your proc and nodal textures. It's a development tool for realtime applications (and near realtime rendering).
You can do your own games and export as .exe. Fully scriptable. Works inside LW, no scene import neccessary. There's nothing like it out there yet.
And there's alot of great things that aren't even mentioned...

Bastien
11-08-2006, 12:32 PM
Looks great! Keep up the good work.

James Edwards
11-10-2006, 11:48 PM
more PiMpage... (http://www.golemworx.com/pub/ogre_PIM.avi) :D

Uses xvid codec

jasonwestmas
11-11-2006, 04:24 PM
Good Show! Those Zbrush N-maps?

James Edwards
11-11-2006, 04:31 PM
ZB for the body, Mudbox for the rest. MB currently handles multiple objects in a scene much better, whereas ZB wont have this capability till 2.5. It's much easier to deal with equipment and such with all kinds of separate pieces when you can work on them together in the same file.

jasonwestmas
11-11-2006, 04:36 PM
Indeed, I'm still waiting on ZB 2.5. I'm looking forward to seeing more from PIM.

mav3rick
11-12-2006, 03:59 AM
holly crap

borkus
11-30-2006, 06:56 PM
when, oh ye pim lords? when? next year? please?!?

Tzan
12-01-2006, 09:28 AM
I had a slow day on tuesday and learned some JavaScript :)

I already know C, Perl and regular Java, so it was easy. Then I made a JS TicTacToe game. My first project with PIM will be PIMTacToe! Its always best to start simple.

jasonwestmas
12-01-2006, 12:15 PM
It's not hard to complicate a simple game graphically so I say go for it you can definately make it more complex later anyway ;)

LW3D
12-18-2006, 07:11 AM
we are still waiting.. is there any news about PIM?

Erwin Zwart
01-23-2007, 03:38 PM
we are still waiting.. is there any news about PIM?

I still get a new beta every week or more often than that so it's still going strong.
Tip: start to learn Javascript, that is how you make realtime apps with it.

I3D
02-16-2007, 03:49 PM
ok I might be guessing here, but once someone told me a gossip about PimTools, he said that a high profile director (actually the Oscar director) was very pleased with it, doing 40x40 meters motion capture in real time. I first though he was talking about Peter Jackson, but now I think I'm wrong. I was reading an article the other day about James Cameron new movie "Avatar"

from the description of the movie and technical requirements it seems to fit the profile. here I quote "It's like a big, powerful game engine" :D

ok I don't need a confirmation on that, just delivered soon please guys :D

Cheers

I3D

Cageman
02-16-2007, 03:54 PM
ok I might be guessing here, but once someone told me a gossip about PimTools, he said that a high profile director (actually the Oscar director) was very pleased with it, doing 40x40 meters motion capture in real time. I first though he was talking about Peter Jackson, but now I think I'm wrong. I was reading an article the other day about James Cameron new movie "Avatar"

from the description of the movie and technical requirements it seems to fit the profile. here I quote "It's like a big, powerful game engine" :D

Where did you read the article about James Camerons new movie?

EDIT: Most MoCap apps looks like "big games in realtime"...

I3D
02-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Latest issue of 3D World Magazine :)

Gregg "T.Rex"
09-08-2007, 11:54 AM
Sooo......
Been a long time since...
Any news about PIM progression ?
Why is it taking so long?

T.Rex

Cageman
09-08-2007, 04:09 PM
Hmm....

Well, vaporware would be too harsh... there are users who have been using it in BETA. I wonder if International Game Technology has bought it and made it their own? Johnny Palchetti talks about their "Realtime 3D Operating System" that they use with LightWave...

StereoMike
09-08-2007, 06:51 PM
I guess this has been mentioned earlier somewhere:
http://www.origamidigital.com/

see loco.

If you need a realtime engine/studio now, I'd recommend dx studio (www.dxstudio.com). I use it and it feels great.

mike

Tzan
09-09-2007, 10:34 AM
Soooo just to be very clear here.

Enki has sold it to those guys and there will never be a PIM for LW users?

StereoMike
09-09-2007, 10:58 AM
nope. I posted the link just to give confirmation on pim being alive (and evolving). I can't say anything about the progress, release date or such things. I just know that it's still in development. And loco (as it can do more than pim's core 2 years ago) is evidence that there's movement. pim is still the center of enkis life.

mike

Tzan
09-09-2007, 04:06 PM
Oh ok! I feel better now.

Thanks :)

sculptactive
09-10-2007, 12:36 AM
If you need a realtime engine/studio now, I'd recommend dx studio (www.dxstudio.com). I use it and it feels great.

mike

Thanks for the link. It looks good and more to the point available now.

T-Light
09-11-2007, 12:55 PM
There's another that was released for public consumption this week, Truevision3d 6.5, it's been waiting in the wings for about 2 1/2 years now. I prefer the graphics from truevision to dxstudio but I suppose everyone's milage varies.

Here's the link...

http://www.truevision3d.com

and here's some screenshots...

http://truevision3d.com/3d-media-gallery/index.php?action=showgal&cat=1

StereoMike
09-11-2007, 02:02 PM
Depends on your needs. The engine of DXS is fast evolving (e.g. gets A* pathfinding in one of the next updates). And it is a real development studio. i.e. you don't have to write everything anew, cause there are alot of solutions right in it.
I heard somebody saying, it's the closest match to unity on a windows pc.

mike

T-Light
09-13-2007, 07:11 PM
I think Truevision has AI pathfinding? Haven't been anywhere near that side of the engine to give you an honest appraisal though.

Actualy Mike, when I went through the site the other week I didn't see the video links (my bad) I thought you had to download the engine to view. I looked yesterday and it looks a lot better than their front page anims would have you believe. It does look a very nice engine.

On the truevision front (Ok ok, I bought a truevision license), here's something worth a peak at from a guy who's working on soft shadows, it really is worth a look. :)

Animated creature (few months ago I believe) (36MB)
http://www.smithbower.com/old/movies/bsmd_rancor_very_hi.avi

Here's a link to the forum thread for anyone who fancies a look :).
http://www.truevision3d.com/forums/showcase/soft_cubic_shadow_mapping_point_light_source-t13786.0.html

tyrot
09-14-2007, 01:43 AM
dear T-light and mike

i have 5 different indie engine licenses. Literally i spent a year for finding best development environment for my games.

my final home is

http://www.neoaxisgroup.com/

download the demo, download ogre exporters for lw.. this thing rocks.

best

T-Light
09-14-2007, 12:37 PM
I saw this the other month Tyrot, it does look very good but it requires .Net, I don't mind .Net too much myself, but I don't like to force others to download it just to run my apps. :devil:

StereoMike
09-14-2007, 02:50 PM
I need a cat avatar.

art
09-14-2007, 02:51 PM
Cat avatars are so last beta.

StereoMike
09-14-2007, 03:08 PM
What's the limitation of the demo? Is there a commercial one available? I didn't found a store. It definetely looks good.

StereoMike
09-14-2007, 03:08 PM
But I see more and more each day. Maybe we're outdated?

T-Light
09-14-2007, 03:58 PM
Truevision or neoaxisgroup?

Truevision download (demo) and the full licensed release are identical. If you don't have a developer machine license it will show a truevision logo in a corner of the screen. The way the license works is buy one and your good to go for the lifetime of a single product (betas, tools, full release and point releases)+ you get a program to place onto all of your developer machines to take away the logo while your testing. It works really well.

Here's the download link.
http://www.truevision3d.com/downloads.php

If it has a serious drawback at present it's the fact they don't have up the 6.5 classes yet (I keep referring to the .h files and old 6.1 docs for help)

StereoMike
09-14-2007, 05:29 PM
Thanks Brent, actually I meant neoaxis.

btw. these guys use DXStudio for their trainers etc:

http://www.dtmedia.co.uk/bb/gallery.htm

(some pics are older, DXS makes wonderfull oceans nowadays)

T-Light
09-14-2007, 08:15 PM
Yeah, it does look nice Mike.

I think that's part of the problem with these engines, they look fantastic but it takes so long to get a good idea of them all, pros and cons etc, it's difficult to come to a final decision.

Ah well, decision's been made. I'll write back in a month or two if it's a success or a disaster. :)