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Kurtis
11-02-2006, 02:28 PM
NewTek is pleased to announce that the LightWave v9.2 Open Beta program for the 32-bit PC, 32-bit Mac (PowerPC) and 64-bit PC platforms will begin at approximately 2pm CST on Monday November 06, 2006.

The LightWave v9.2 Open Beta program will be open to all registered owners of LightWave v9.0 educational or commercial licenses. When the program begins, all qualified applicants will need to log-in to their NewTek product registration account at http://register.newtek.com. If you are qualified, you will see a LightWave v9.2 Open Beta banner at the top of the page. Click this banner to read and agree to the NDA and provide your NewTek Discussion Forums log-in ID. Once you have done this, please download the software appropriate for your platform from your My Downloads page.

If you have not already signed up for a NewTek Discussion Forums account (http://www.newtek.com/forums) log-in ID (forums name/alias), please register for one (http://www.newtek.com/forums/register.php) before applying for the LightWave v9.2 Open Beta program. You will need this in order to access the private LightWave Open Beta Forums, which is the only place you may discuss the Open Beta program software until the end of the LightWave v9.2 Open Beta cycle. Access to the private Open Beta forums may take up to two business days after you agree to the NDA and provide your log-in ID.

Everyone interested in participating in the LightWave v9.2 open beta program will need to complete the process outlined above.

If you do not currently qualify for the Open Beta program, but would like to participate, you may still do so by purchasing a full version of LightWave v9 or upgrading an existing license of LightWave 3D to LightWave v9. You can purchase LightWave directly from NewTek online at http://shop.newtek.com or by phone at 1-800-368-5441. You may also purchase from your local authorized NewTek reseller. To find the Authorized Reseller near you, in North America visit http://www.newtek.com/dealers/us.php or outside North America visit http://www.newtek.com/dealers/international.php.

LightWave 3D Development & Marketing

Digital Hermit
11-02-2006, 02:47 PM
Whoo Hoo! :)

I am looking forward to seeing what new goodies and old bugs you knock out this time!

Regards.

Digital Hermit

Wickster
11-02-2006, 03:00 PM
Thanks Kurtis! When does the Open Beta for the Mac Universal Binary starts? Shortly there after I hope.

Kurtis
11-02-2006, 03:08 PM
It's close, but it's not quite ready for the initial Open Beta release for v9.2.

monovich
11-02-2006, 03:46 PM
cool!

Thomas
11-02-2006, 03:49 PM
It's close, but it's not quite ready for the initial Open Beta release for v9.2.
Sorry if I'm speculating but does this mean that the PowerPC version is not compiled in Xcode?


Regards
Thomas

Kurtis
11-02-2006, 03:57 PM
Sorry if I'm speculating but does this mean that the PowerPC version is not compiled in Xcode?

Regards
Thomas

Correct. When the Universal Binary is released for Open Beta which will be fairly soon, but not at the outset of the v9.2 Open Beta, then the 32-bit Mac platform will be in Xcode.

Thomas
11-02-2006, 05:24 PM
Correct. When the Universal Binary is released for Open Beta which will be fairly soon, but not at the outset of the v9.2 Open Beta, then the 32-bit Mac platform will be in Xcode.
Ok, thanks.

So, speedbumps a bit further down the road then... :D


Regards
Thomas

hrgiger
11-02-2006, 05:25 PM
Cool beans. I'm anxious to get my hands on the new beta. I'm working on some things right now in modeler that will be a nice benchmark for the new OGL.

T-Light
11-02-2006, 06:41 PM
Excellent, thanks Kurtis

Earl
11-02-2006, 07:28 PM
Woohoo! Great news. I knew that if I took 2 days off (felt like forever) from browsing the forum something good would be posted. :D

GraphXs
11-02-2006, 08:54 PM
Yes, Great News Indeed! :newtek: :thumbsup:

dmac989
11-02-2006, 10:19 PM
Im just glad to see Newtek is maybe taking lightwave dev a little more serious again.

I remember lightwave 1:newtek: on the video toaster, and the toaster was a must. Computers just weren't powerful enough to make lightwave useful by themselves.

Now they seem to be putting alot of effort into VT and such and short term that's probably good, but...

As fast as the hardware technology is accelerating in desktop computing, it's only a matter of time before additional hardware is no longer needed, then the only thing left to sell is software, for pc's and especially in Mac's.

archiea
11-03-2006, 12:48 AM
well, with the mac, one circle has completed: and thats the use of PC hardware. In that respect, Mac competes by 1) being the only hardware that you can run mac IOS and 2) being a dual OS system and as a bonus 3) by is strength in industrial design and versitility, apple hardware is being considered by some fence sitters, and even PC users.

So in Apple's case, Software is everything. Designing their own hardware makes the software making a little easier. ****, I hope they do stay niche, it just means better gear.

Back to the point, I think NT's commitment to software or hardware is a resource issue. With their current pricepoint, I think that limits their resources, relegating LW to marketplace for indie artist and and the self employed. Much of the "industry" that it pioneered abandoned LW in favor for the new tools in the marketplace. In a way, the industry that LW created "grew up" while LW suffered a sort of arrested development. LW 9 shows a lot of promise, but much of it is in potential, not actual gains. Their only way for LW to get back in the race is:

1) more powerful scripting/open pipeline
2) modern renderer. (new shading models is a great first step, but only a first step)
3) groundbreaking animation upgrade. Honestly I see any real growth in this area for another two versions... and by then it may be obsolete yet again.
4) Critical to the above: a whole new architecture. Core, UI, everything. And a new philosophy to go behind that.

Frankly, regarding item 4, I see the handicap in that being a personnel one. One can't just change the way they think. Seeing the interface proposals before 8 was released showed me that it was just old NT blood just reliving the past.. no new fresh ideas. I wonder how NT handles voices of dissent..if its just bred out.. because LW seems so old and unmodern that its hard to think that there is any fresh blood in the decision making.

I do hope LW modernizes itself because I'm dying to see their take on a modern 3D app using the innovation that I saw 10-15 years ago. however I want to see in within the context of its peers like Maya and modo and SI, not according to the inbred community here. I want it to stand more shoulder to shoulder with like apps at Siggy, and not just seeing Proton running the most basics of demos of boxes colliding with character models That look like they are from HASH animation master. I mean c'mon, i recall the Taron days circa 2000 when LW had a much more advanced look to its demos even compared to those given today!!!

Not to rip on proton because he has done wonders for the community here, but that the point... the community here, not in gaining a better foothold of the high end industry/market.

Flame away.... :D

hrgiger
11-03-2006, 02:44 AM
well, with the mac, one circle has completed: and thats the use of PC hardware. In that respect, Mac competes by 1) being the only hardware that you can run mac IOS and 2) being a dual OS system and as a bonus 3) by is strength in industrial design and versitility, apple hardware is being considered by some fence sitters, and even PC users.

So in Apple's case, Software is everything. Designing their own hardware makes the software making a little easier. ****, I hope they do stay niche, it just means better gear.

Back to the point, I think NT's commitment to software or hardware is a resource issue. With their current pricepoint, I think that limits their resources, relegating LW to marketplace for indie artist and and the self employed. Much of the "industry" that it pioneered abandoned LW in favor for the new tools in the marketplace. In a way, the industry that LW created "grew up" while LW suffered a sort of arrested development. LW 9 shows a lot of promise, but much of it is in potential, not actual gains. Their only way for LW to get back in the race is:

1) more powerful scripting/open pipeline
2) modern renderer. (new shading models is a great first step, but only a first step)
3) groundbreaking animation upgrade. Honestly I see any real growth in this area for another two versions... and by then it may be obsolete yet again.
4) Critical to the above: a whole new architecture. Core, UI, everything. And a new philosophy to go behind that.

Frankly, regarding item 4, I see the handicap in that being a personnel one. One can't just change the way they think. Seeing the interface proposals before 8 was released showed me that it was just old NT blood just reliving the past.. no new fresh ideas. I wonder how NT handles voices of dissent..if its just bred out.. because LW seems so old and unmodern that its hard to think that there is any fresh blood in the decision making.

I do hope LW modernizes itself because I'm dying to see their take on a modern 3D app using the innovation that I saw 10-15 years ago. however I want to see in within the context of its peers like Maya and modo and SI, not according to the inbred community here. I want it to stand more shoulder to shoulder with like apps at Siggy, and not just seeing Proton running the most basics of demos of boxes colliding with character models That look like they are from HASH animation master. I mean c'mon, i recall the Taron days circa 2000 when LW had a much more advanced look to its demos even compared to those given today!!!

Not to rip on proton because he has done wonders for the community here, but that the point... the community here, not in gaining a better foothold of the high end industry/market.

Flame away.... :D

Wow. Still five days out from even the beta and already the trolls are on the ball.

bryphi7
11-03-2006, 02:56 AM
yeah see...http://www.gnomesnnodders.com/category/pics/picture8311_917.jpgTrolls on the ball

colkai
11-03-2006, 03:14 AM
hehe, seems a core re-write is needed ...errr. wait a minute.. aren't Newtek ALREADY re-writing the core? Can ya talk about clues and the catching thereof? :p ;)

kfiram
11-03-2006, 03:42 AM
Wow. Still five days out from even the beta and already the trolls are on the ball.

This forum is such a sad joke. If what archiea said can be considered, even remotely, as trolling, that's proof enough that this community has degenerated into what can indeed be referred to as "inbred".

Get a life, people. Look around. You're not in Kansas anymore and Newtek is far from being king of the hill.
I couldn't agree more with what archiea said. If Newtek doesn't do something drastic, they will soon become another HASH.

-EsHrA-
11-03-2006, 03:56 AM
correct archiea and kfiram, i feel the same way.

mlon

Panikos
11-03-2006, 05:17 AM
As my eyes read, the new radiosity is sometimes faster.
So ... in rest of the times is slower ?

:heart:

bryphi7
11-03-2006, 05:29 AM
My take on that is... they saw all the complaints over the last few months, and just wanted to through something in to calm the crowed. I don't think that was the smart thing to do at this point, but we shall see. Might be better then we think.

Their day to prove to us what they are capable of is near! Lets wish for the best. If they fail miserably again, I for one will bash them miserably again!!!:)

Sensei
11-03-2006, 05:39 AM
Kurtis, can we see LW SDK v9.2?

Did you implemented at least part of my requests?

- does polygon handlers are asked for selection of points/polygons instead of doing it internally? (this would handle CC sub-patch point selection requested by many people). Needed for disallowing VirtualMirror, EasySpline, TrueHair, ShowWeights selecting accidently by user..

- does polygon handlers have polFlags() that returns whether polygon is selected or hidden? Needed for VirtualMirror to not show mirror of what has been hidden by user.

- does polygon handlers have pntFlags() that returns whether point is selected or hidden? Needed for ShowWeights to not show weights of what has been hidden by user.

- does LWMeshInfo have access to what custom polygon handler returns from genMesh() function? Needed for VirtualMirror, TrueHair and FiberFactory4 for working properly with sub-patches..

gjjackson
11-03-2006, 05:43 AM
Get a life, people. Look around. You're not in Kansas anymore

Yes, I am.

Kurtis
11-03-2006, 06:17 AM
Kurtis, can we see LW SDK v9.2?

Did you implemented at least part of my requests?

- does polygon handlers are asked for selection of points/polygons instead of doing it internally? (this would handle CC sub-patch point selection requested by many people). Needed for disallowing VirtualMirror, EasySpline, TrueHair, ShowWeights selecting accidently by user..

- does polygon handlers have polFlags() that returns whether polygon is selected or hidden? Needed for VirtualMirror to not show mirror of what has been hidden by user.

- does polygon handlers have pntFlags() that returns whether point is selected or hidden? Needed for ShowWeights to not show weights of what has been hidden by user.

- does LWMeshInfo have access to what custom polygon handler returns from genMesh() function? Needed for VirtualMirror, TrueHair and FiberFactory4 for working properly with sub-patches..

I am sure the v9.2 SDK will be released during the open beta cycle, as it was with v9.0.

As to request-specific questions, you are in regular contact with 3D Development already. As I am not a member of development, you should continue to direct such questions to them personally.

Kurtis
11-03-2006, 06:20 AM
As my eyes read, the new radiosity is sometimes faster.
So ... in rest of the times is slower ?

:heart:

That would mean the speed is unchanged the rest of the time.

colkai
11-03-2006, 07:29 AM
This forum is such a sad joke. If what archiea said can be considered, even remotely, as trolling, that's proof enough that this community has degenerated into what can indeed be referred to as "inbred".

My personal point was, he was stating that a core re-write needs to be done. Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but are not Newtek indeed doing a core re-write? Yes? Has it not been stated countless times? Yes?

So, anyone who posts that LW is doomed unless it has a core re-write seems to me to be kinda being somewhat provocative, even if, (which overall I'm sure is the case), it was not the intent of the post, or at least, not the main point.

As with many posts, it's no use harping on about as, let's be totally clear on this, Newtek are, I am 100% sure, quite aware of peoples feelings and the perceptions out there.
Just as they are aware of what is needed to make LW9 the best release so far. Thus this thread encouraging people to join in the Beta for LW9 to make that possible for the widest cross-section of users.

Let's just see what the future brings before making our descision, rather than making "if they dont..." type threads before we even see the results of the development teams labours eh?

hrgiger
11-03-2006, 10:24 AM
This forum is such a sad joke. If what archiea said can be considered, even remotely, as trolling, that's proof enough that this community has degenerated into what can indeed be referred to as "inbred".

Get a life, people. Look around. You're not in Kansas anymore and Newtek is far from being king of the hill.
I couldn't agree more with what archiea said. If Newtek doesn't do something drastic, they will soon become another HASH.

Colkai pretty much summed it up for me. I don't know about anyone else, but I get so sick and tired of the "Lightwave better do this, or else!" posts. And look, I just quoted another one. Super. As if Newtek is shut off to the world, unaware of the dangers of customer perception and competition.

Core rewrite. Good idea Archiea. Genius! Only Newtek and Jay Roth thought of that one months ago so we're going to have to deny you the copyright on that idea this time. Newtek IS and HAS been rewriting the core of the application for some time now. Perhaps the memo that mentions that it takes longer then 15 minutes or so didn't reach the desks of Archiea and kfiram yet. I'll be sure to email management have have Bill Lumberg walk a copy over to you.

Oh and as far as the state of the Lightwave community and its memebers. I accuse someone of trolling (which merely means that they say things to stir up debate- not actually referring to them as a mythological creature or sharing the characteristics of one) and your answer is to call the community inbred? You don't need me to prove a point when you've just demonstated it spectacularly.

warrenwc
11-03-2006, 11:52 AM
Well I vote for the positive crowd.
Sadly, I will only be with the open beta for 9.2 in spirit.
My system has become unstable & the only thing research has shown me is that I'm not alone.
On boot, occasionally I get "Windows was unable to start because the file "Windows/sys 32/system is corrupt or missing". Also the occasional BSD.
If I just restart everything is normal again for up to a week, running every day.
Lots of people are evidently having this problem with WindowsXP & so far no one seems to be able to solve it.
It seems to be caused by certain hardware configs, but I can't afford to build a new PC right now & can't be of much help in a beta with an unstable machine.
I hope you all have as much fun as I did with the previous open beta & hopefully, I'll be ready for the next one.

gjjackson
11-03-2006, 12:26 PM
You may want to check your hard drive. I had similar problems and due to imminent hardware failure.

TSpyrison
11-03-2006, 12:33 PM
I don't know about anyone else, but I get so sick and tired of the "Lightwave better do this, or else!" posts.

I'll second that sentiment..

kfiram
11-03-2006, 12:54 PM
My personal point was, he was stating that a core re-write needs to be done.

No, that's not what archiea said.
He listed 4 areas that needed improvement. The first 3 are not "core"-related. The 4th is, and I quote: "a whole new architecture. Core, UI, everything. And a new philosophy to go behind that".
A new core isn't sufficient, especially if we get it in such small incremental steps that will lead to something substantial maybe 4 years down the road (at which point, ANOTHER core rewrite will be in order).

What Newtek needs, in my opinion, is something simple but innovative. Think Nintendo Wii. Think ZBrush. Think Silo. Think iPod. Think Project ASSIST (http://rationale.csail.mit.edu/project_assist.shtml). Think built-in FPrime. Something that will generate enough interest and enough revenue to put LW development back on track.
As it is now, it's simply too slow-going and is headed straight to HASHland.

coremi
11-03-2006, 01:01 PM
u dont have to buy a new computer, check the hard drive, also the power source, i'll change the power source first.

colkai
11-03-2006, 01:30 PM
No, that's not what archiea said.
He listed 4 areas that needed improvement. The first 3 are not "core"-related. The 4th is, and I quote: "a whole new architecture. Core, UI, everything. And a new philosophy to go behind that".
A new core isn't sufficient

Ahh, but WITHOUT the new core, they cannot fullfil any of the wish list, so the core is the first step, which Newtek have themselves stated.

There seems to be the desire to read only parts of what Newtek have laid out as the battle plan for the LW9 cycle.

The inference seems to be that Newtek are somehow not listening or not going to implement the updates / fixes. I have said it before and I'll keep saying it, Newtek are FULLY aware of what peoples opinions are and have said they intend to address pretty much every aspect of LW.

Now surely, this should make such statements as "they have to..." redundant as again, until the dust has settled following the final patch for LW9, no-one, and I mean no-one can make statements about what hsa and has not been done within the LW9 cycle.

To clarify, one more time, Newtek have said work will be ongoing throughout the LW9.X cycle on pretty much every aspect of LW9.

Check back over Jay, Mr Nelsons and Chucks posts, also re-read the development roadmap Newtek have put out.

I also am anticipating that, based on previous releases, as things progress, we will get more than is asked for and features we never expected, this is how Newtek have always worked where it is possible.

Like many, I just get tired of people sat snugly in their office or bedrooms telling Newtek how to run their game unless they "want to die / fall behind / be nothing but a joke", it's plain wrong.

Yes, say what features and changes you'd like, but to say, "do it or fail" well, that story has been circling as long as Lw has been around. Each release has been "oh but this time it WILL happen", ya know, you just get plain fed up of reading it.

Lottmedia
11-03-2006, 01:56 PM
Colkai pretty much summed it up for me. I don't know about anyone else, but I get so sick and tired of the "Lightwave better do this, or else!" posts. And look, I just quoted another one. Super. As if Newtek is shut off to the world, unaware of the dangers of customer perception and competition.

Well, not to start anything, but at times it sees it is. Kurtis and others do drop info here from time to time, but there's also a great derth of information we arn't getting. I and I think a few others feel we are not kept informed reliabily about what's happening. Personally I think it's because of the huge blunder of announcing 9 so early when it clearly wasn't at a place where it should have been announced (the problem with having one big 3D confrence every year, you feel you have to have something) All I want is for the stupid Hub Bug to go away, and as far as I've seen no one from NT has even posted into any of those threads, so yes, it does feel that NT is sticking it's head in the sand and selectively ignoring some things. I think that's a valid concern from what's we've seen.

Casey :cat:
(meow....)

kfiram
11-03-2006, 02:00 PM
. Each release has been "oh but this time it WILL happen", ya know, you just get plain fed up of reading it.

But it IS happening right now and you have to be blind not to see it. LW is being dropped (or at least "supplemented") by almost every serious studio.
No major studio can rely on LW alone. They either leave to Maya or XSI, or use these packages in tandem with LW, usually as means of a gradual transition towards those other apps. Those handful studios that still haven't done that (not sure there are any) will surely do so in the near future.

What's worse, emerging studios (not "one man bands". Real studios geared toward TV and film work) wouldn't even consider adopting LW as their app of choice. There's no "new blood" coming in. At least not on the higher levels.

LW was never completely on par with Maya, but it always had its strong points. It surely was on par or better than Max. It was far ahead of Cinema4D. There were times almost nobody used Softimage or Houdini. And off course, there were no Silo/Modo/Hexagon breathing down Newtek's neck.
Nowadays, LW is far behind ALL those other apps. Any measures Newtek is taking to claim back some common ground, are being carried ever so slowly, while the competition is progressing at massive, giant steps.

Sure, 9.x development cycle isn't complete. We all know that. But at the current pace of things, it looks like at least 2 years before a full fledged package finally emerges. One with real integration between modeler and Layout, usable animation and rigging tools, a modern and fast rendering engine, an open SDK... Surely you don't suppose this could all be handled in the course of 1 year.

Now, do you suppose the competition will wait during those 2 long years? Or is it safer to assume that by then, LW will be even further behind?

Do you see the problem? Do you understand that if things continue to move at this pace, more and more users will leave to greener pastures? Can't you see that this calls for something drastic? Can't you see that Newtek's current philosophy of small incremental steps will get us nowhere?

MooseDog
11-03-2006, 03:18 PM
yeah, can't you see? can't you see? can't you see? you better see, or else! :) i'm right, not you!

monovich
11-03-2006, 03:31 PM
All I want is for the stupid Hub Bug to go away

Casey :cat:
(meow....)

so strange. I've never had the Hub bug... that I know of.

kfiram
11-03-2006, 03:59 PM
i'm right, not you!

Well, that's obvious. :)

Sensei
11-03-2006, 03:59 PM
Problem with hub is that internal elements database is not checked whether element with given name is already existing, and it results in growing to infinity config file. It's saved each time hub is shut-down, which can be one time per day. but if you're running your computers without restarting hub is never restarted and have no chance to save and screw up config file.

Default location of hub config file is C:\Documents and Settings/[user name]\LWHUB9.CFG..
After each hub restart (usually 1 per day, but you can do it manually exiting hub and running again just for test), you should see a lot of commands:
AppConfig 0 0 FrameSliderLabel 0
much less often
AppConfig 9 0 ContentDirectory D:\Programs\LightWave v9.0\Projects
and other but less frequently..

That's why setting hub file read-only flag helps - file is not growing.. And for the same reason deleting file also helps- bugs don't cumulate..

EyelandArts.com
11-03-2006, 04:06 PM
The object ID fix on this version might seem like a small thing to most but people should realize that with this thing out of the way, literally hundreds of long standing issues are/will be resolved. It opens the door to many things that where just impossible with the old system. Im only guessing but fixing this probably ment newtek had to rewrite a miriad of tools that referenced this method. It must have been brutal trying to to figure out where to replace it within millions of lines of code.

Bliz
11-03-2006, 04:06 PM
LW was never completely on par with Maya,


:rolleyes: Maya has only been a complete a package as LW since Maya4.
You couldn't even create or edit non-manifold polygonal geometry till Maya3.

Maya's character animation has always been better than LW but if you remember, Maya was first marketed as a character animation package. All the other bits like particles, acceptable polygonal modeling, decent rendering via Mental Ray, PaintFX, Cloth, Fluids, Hair etc. etc. were all added way after Maya1's release.

Until a year or two ago Maya users were exasperatingly asking for a face beveling function that didn't corrupt UVs and strip material assignments off the object you were trying to do a bevel on.

gjjackson
11-03-2006, 04:08 PM
When you consider All the users registered and the number who complain it is inconsequential. It would mean more if a poll was taken of All LW owners and find out their opinions. I suspect NT has a great deal of individual users as opposed to "studios". Studios can hire programmers etc. Smaller organizations require more "out of the box" software. Not all users do the type of work the studios do.

kopperdrake
11-03-2006, 04:41 PM
...not according to the inbred community here...

Well they do say two heads are better than one :P

Cageman
11-03-2006, 05:29 PM
But it IS happening right now and you have to be blind not to see it. LW is being dropped (or at least "supplemented") by almost every serious studio.

No major studio can rely on LW alone. They either leave to Maya or XSI, or use these packages in tandem with LW, usually as means of a gradual transition towards those other apps. Those handful studios that still haven't done that (not sure there are any) will surely do so in the near future.


Studios relying on Maya writes tons of MEL-scripts to get Maya where they need it to be. The time invested in these things are huge. While LightWave doesn't have CA-tools that matches those of Maya, XSI or 3DS Max, it certenly has a renderer and other minor functions "out of the box" that are so much more easy to use. Combining Maya and LightWave can save alot of time, because you use them for what they are good at.


What's worse, emerging studios (not "one man bands". Real studios geared toward TV and film work) wouldn't even consider adopting LW as their app of choice. There's no "new blood" coming in. At least not on the higher levels.

I've talked to guys who says LW is a huge pile of crap, but they have never used it. I don't understand how they have come to that conclusion without even using the tool. Another factor is that there are so few LW-artists around these days. All the good ones are already busy working.

If what you say is true, then why are studios such as the ones featured in the Case-studies still using LW if it is so far behind? Clearly, those guys have been using other apps and found that LW does certain things very well, and very fast....



Now, do you suppose the competition will wait during those 2 long years? Or is it safer to assume that by then, LW will be even further behind?

Do you see the problem? Do you understand that if things continue to move at this pace, more and more users will leave to greener pastures? Can't you see that this calls for something drastic? Can't you see that Newtek's current philosophy of small incremental steps will get us nowhere?

As long as LightWave can do things faster and more userfriendly, I can't see why people would stop using it.

Actually, I helped a one of the in-game graphics artists today with some particle-issues, and he was using LW7.5. I talked with him about LW9 and he said that LW7.5 still delivers the goods he needs to do. Maya would be a complete overkill for what he is doing, and would probably cause even more problems when exporting/importing to the game-engine.

Bottomline here is that if you know several applications, you can choose the app, or combination of apps, to get the job done as fast as possible. I think those Maya-only guys really could have done certain jobs faster if they knew LW and the tools to get Maya and LW to share data.

Wasn't the production of Captain Scarlet more or less saved when LW got into the picture?

I keep thinking... if LW is so far behind as a whole... how come it is still used... I just don't get it....

jameswillmott
11-03-2006, 05:43 PM
LW 9 shows a lot of promise, but much of it is in potential, not actual gains.

Flame away.... :D

No flames here, you're spot on. You're right, 9 has the potential to be something great, and this is what had to be done before the real improvements could be made. It's like fixing the object id issue which has plagued LW since v6 ( and before? ) That has to be fixed before any new animation tools can be built, otherwise you're just building on a shaky foundation...

hrgiger
11-03-2006, 05:49 PM
But it IS happening right now and you have to be blind not to see it. LW is being dropped (or at least "supplemented") by almost every serious studio.

Have some numbers on that and names of "every serious studio" that has abandoned the use of Lightwave?


No major studio can rely on LW alone. They either leave to Maya or XSI, or use these packages in tandem with LW, usually as means of a gradual transition towards those other apps. Those handful studios that still haven't done that (not sure there are any) will surely do so in the near future.
And not many major studios use soley Maya or XSI or Max either. So your point is...?


What's worse, emerging studios (not "one man bands". Real studios geared toward TV and film work) wouldn't even consider adopting LW as their app of choice. There's no "new blood" coming in. At least not on the higher levels.
And you are qualified to speak for every new emerging studio as well? Wow, gee whiz.



Sure, 9.x development cycle isn't complete. We all know that. But at the current pace of things, it looks like at least 2 years before a full fledged package finally emerges. One with real integration between modeler and Layout, usable animation and rigging tools, a modern and fast rendering engine, an open SDK... Surely you don't suppose this could all be handled in the course of 1 year.

We already have a full fledged package. It does modeling, it does texture mapping, it does animation, it does rendering....


Now, do you suppose the competition will wait during those 2 long years? Or is it safer to assume that by then, LW will be even further behind?

You're implying that all development moves at exactly the same pace from every developer. Meaning that if Maya is behind XSI today (by your speculative benchmarks), that it will automatically be behind by the same amount in two years? What kind of logic is this? Worley revolutionized the way a lot of use Lightwavers work overnight with the release of FPrime. Who is to say that Newtek can't do similar revolutinary things, especially now that they're working on changing the core architecture of Lightwave to allow for future growth (the ObjectID issue as of v9.2 being a good and current example).


Do you see the problem? Do you understand that if things continue to move at this pace, more and more users will leave to greener pastures? Can't you see that this calls for something drastic? Can't you see that Newtek's current philosophy of small incremental steps will get us nowhere?

Yes, in your fictional universe where development continues at a predictable and precedented fashion, I see the problem. Fortunately, this is not la la land, not the Matrix, it's the real world where chaos rules.
Newtek is not taking small and incremental steps. They are doing the (unfortunately) necessary work of modernizing the code base so that development can continue unfettered in the future. It only looks small and incremental to you because a lot of work is going into parts of the program that you do not personally see in your interface.
The sky is not falling Chicken Little.

MooseDog
11-03-2006, 06:35 PM
The sky is not falling Chicken Little.

thank you:thumbsup:

righteous
11-03-2006, 10:17 PM
I kind of feel like I might contribute here. I have always used Lightwave for my own personal enjoyment. I try not to visit these threads becuase they just depress me really. But I have tried all the other "major" packages and I just dont like them. I hate the interface, I hate the way the tools work, I hate that modeling and animation are in the same part. I like to think of modeller as a work shop and layout as a studio, I want to do all my modelling and then take it to the studio to "take the photo's". I have always been really pleased with the results I get out of lightwave, I have always been pleased that if I want a knife tool or something, I just look for the word knife in the menu, I dont have to decode a friggin weird *** interface.

I think if people dont like the program, why use it? It makes sense to me if something isnt what you want, move on. Am I missing something here? WHy are people hanging around causing trouble? I think things would be far more productive if we had positive feedback and the community helped each other create amazing projects and advance all of our skills.

I for one am really looking forward to the next beta cycle, I cant wait to test out the new depth of field and motion blur stuff, will be great.

Ok, that's all, later.

KevinL
11-03-2006, 10:44 PM
14 paid projects completed. 2 minor crashes (one due to having upgraded my nvidia driver to the current version, had to back off one. The other, deleted something in modeler with layout open) otherwise running well.

Question for those decrying LW's future and comparing to maya, etc. (I am asking honestly, not as a poke or flame) Why are you even bothering with Lightwave (I am assuming you use it and that's why you are in here) and the Lightwave forums?

Thank You

PS I am biased, I like Lightwave and trully appreciate the efforts and advances of the LW team.

warrenwc
11-03-2006, 11:09 PM
You may want to check your hard drive. I had similar problems and due to imminent hardware failure.

u dont have to buy a new computer, check the hard drive, also the power source, i'll change the power source first.
Thanks guys.Smartmon says the hard drive is fine, & I bought a power supply tester but my DELL has a proprietary connector #@*%!!!
So, I'll probably end up packing it to the shop.

Marshun
11-03-2006, 11:22 PM
PS I am biased, I like Lightwave and trully appreciate the efforts and advances of the LW team.
Cheers

:)

duke
11-03-2006, 11:41 PM
There's no hope of this or numerous other threads getting back on the rails after such a massive trainrwreck 4 posts in, but what the ****:

Newtek, got a preliminary changelog? :)

Panikos
11-04-2006, 12:23 AM
hrgiger. You are ignoring the fact that the Lens flare era was over some years ago.

He, who havent seen the sky with its stars, saw a chimney and impressed.

Bliz
11-04-2006, 01:50 AM
Wasn't the production of Captain Scarlet more or less saved when LW got into the picture?



Yes. They were using Renderman for Maya which is extremely flexible but needs a LOT of tuning. Lightwave enabed them to go from a shot or two a month to multiple shots per day.
On the flipside the character mocap and keyframe animation would have been a lot slower if it wasn't done in Maya.

Cageman
11-04-2006, 01:59 AM
On the flipside the character mocap and keyframe animation would have been a lot slower if it wasn't done in Maya.

That's why there are tools such as PointOven and Maya2LW2... ever since I started to use Maya for rigging/animation, I have found myself enjoying LightWave alot more... :)

pooby
11-04-2006, 02:39 AM
"I want to do all my modelling and then take it to the studio to "take the photo's"

In which case. LW is the ideal software for you

Anyone who doesn't use or has not attempted to use LW for rigging and animation (on at least broadcast quality work) would have difficulty understanding many of the comments regarding LWs shortcomings.

lardbros
11-04-2006, 03:04 AM
Well, i could have guessed these threads would "go bad" like this!!

I use 3dMAX at work... and LW at home... look i said home! I prefer to use lightwave and everything about it makes sense to me. MAX is a good tool, don't get me wrong, but i just like the way LW works.

We've also just upgraded to MAX9 and it's not all it's cracked up to be. Infact i think it was a bit of a rush job... even the help files say MAX8 at the top!! It takes forever to load geometry heavy models. (in the region of 5-10minutes sometimes for a 60mb model... when MAX8 loads it in 2seconds!!)

Anyway... LW and Newtek are clearly on the road to recovery, and recovering from a serious accident like losing your programmers will always take time to get through!

JamesCurtis
11-04-2006, 07:13 AM
I use Lightwave exclusively here. I have done probably 100+ projects with LW over the last 12 years and couldn't think of using any other app for my 3D work. It's been pretty stable for me [LW9 included]. Looking forward to the 9.2 OB. I tried demos of other apps and could not get used to them.

JCurtis
JMC Graphics

colkai
11-04-2006, 07:20 AM
But it IS happening right now and you have to be blind not to see it.
ROFTL - hehe, oh boy oh boy, you really don't see the irony there do you?

Tell ya what, mark your messages for when LW10 comes out, that'll save you having to re-type it next time around. :ohmy: :ohmy:

bryphi7
11-04-2006, 08:13 AM
ROFTL - hehe, oh boy oh boy, you really don't see the irony there do you?

Tell ya what, mark your messages for when LW10 comes out, that'll save you having to re-type it next time around. :ohmy: :ohmy:

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that LW 10 will come out...I believe that they are saying that by then it will not be looked at as a viable option for anything other then a hobbiest...Like hash. LW still has a chance to come back and play with the big boys, but NT need to act very fast or they will have lost the opportunity, IMO. At this point I think it could go either way. I wouldn't bet any money on it though.

Chilton
11-04-2006, 08:17 AM
Hi Archiea,


Frankly, regarding item 4, I see the handicap in that being a personnel one. One can't just change the way they think. Seeing the interface proposals before 8 was released showed me that it was just old NT blood just reliving the past.. no new fresh ideas. I wonder how NT handles voices of dissent..if its just bred out.. because LW seems so old and unmodern that its hard to think that there is any fresh blood in the decision making.

We're in an interesting position right now. The v9 cycle is largely our way of bridging the old with the new. But due to the nature of our industry, our users can't wait for a complete rewrite of everything before we ship another product. There are bugs to be fixed, and in some cases this requires quite a bit of work. If you haven't noticed, a lot has changed under the hood. That will continue with each new version.

I don't think we need a complete rewrite of everything, but some portions of LW are under the scope, and are changing. Why not change everything? Not everything is broken. And once we have finished polishing this version, our next step is probably not something I can talk about.

We know what our users want, what they expect, and what's at stake. We're also very aware of what our competitors are promising people, what they're actually delivering, and where the industry is going. Just keep in mind that LightWave is not a plug-in. Rewriting any critical portion of it creates a very real butterfly effect. But we do have an internal roadmap for the product, and I suspect the results of it will be very well received by our users.

But frankly, that's not my specialty. I can tell you a bit about what went (and is still going) into the Universal Binary version on the Mac.

You simply can't have a Universal Binary with the underlying code we had. And it's no secret that a lot of things were done in a very non-Mac-like fashion before. Now they will be. And in this process, a number of things changed on the Mac side that aren't so obvious.

We've changed a LOT on the Mac side.

[Note: edited for correction] These are the general reasons that we're releasing v9.2 still based on the CodeWarrior shell. The Universal Binary will follow when we are certain that it is ready, and will undergo an Open Beta process at that time.

This is critical to having a solid UB release version. We need to know if any platform specific bugs are in the hoard of new code that went into the UB version, or if they're something more specific to our Mac implementation.

-Chilton

colkai
11-04-2006, 09:47 AM
I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that LW 10 will come out...
That wasn't really my point Bryphi, s'more to do with "oh no, really this time LW WILL DIE" at each release. I was suggesing he could re-use his "sky is falling" posts to save re-typing. ;)

In fact, I'm sure if the old archives were searched, you could probably extract some threads about LW5 and such, simply change the version number and save all that typing about LW/Newtek fading away. :p

kfiram
11-04-2006, 12:09 PM
That wasn't really my point Bryphi, s'more to do with "oh no, really this time LW WILL DIE" at each release. I was suggesing he could re-use his "sky is falling" posts to save re-typing. ;)

In fact, I'm sure if the old archives were searched, you could probably extract some threads about LW5 and such, simply change the version number and save all that typing about LW/Newtek fading away. :p

I'm not saying "LW WILL DIE". The 3D market is wide enough to encompass even oldies like Truespace, Evoia, and Real(soft)3D. LW will probably survive for a long long time.
I AM suggesting it is "fading away" (gradually, since probably 5.6, which was its peak). And this gradual fade-away cannot be denied when you look at today's market and compare it to what it was a decade ago.
I'm not suggesting it will happen tomorrow, or that there will ever be a single point in time that marks its final demise. I'm suggesting it is happening right now and has been happening for a long long time.

And I'll say again: you have to be blind (or ignorant) not to see it.



As for the rest of this thread - some comments are too ridiculous to even respond to. People who know nothing about the competitors and are still under the notion that LW is complete "out of the box" whereas Maya is not, are best ignored.

I do want to respond to those who always have "so why are you still here?" or "so go buy Maya" to say: guys, I like LW. I really do. I don't think it's crap. If I did, I'd have left a long time ago. I do think it's FAR FAR behind the competition and needs to progress much faster than it does. For Newtek's sake, for LW users sake, for MY sake.
I don't hate Newtek. On the contrary - I don't ever want to buy an Autodesk product. I only want Newtek to remain "a player" and I want LW to get back to its former position as "one of the big 4".

So what I have to say to Newtek is this:
I believe your current approach is lacking. I believe you're playing catch-up with companies that are probably 10 times your size and has 10 times your resources. I believe by the time LW10 comes out, it will be even further behind the competition, which is busy developing features that LW users are blissfully unaware of. I believe this will lead to LW gradually "fading away" (as colkay so nicely helped me put it). I believe Newtek knows that.
I believe the only way out of this loop is to pull some king of magic rabbit out of the Newtek hat. Something that will dazzle the competition. Something that will make people think of Newtek once more (as they did a decade ago) as innovators and even revolutionaries. As a company with a vision. As a force to be reckoned with.
I believe it is not impossible. I believe that with some creative thinking, Newtek can come up with something like that. And I believe this can (and should) be done in parallel to Newtek's effort to rewrite and enhance LW.

T-Light
11-04-2006, 12:44 PM
kfiram, the new core is still being built, we're in the middle of it, it's an unfortunate thing for the software to have to go through but absolutely neccessary. We've started reaping some of the rewards from this and we'll see a lot more soon enough.

As to playing catchup, we have as yet absolutely no idea of where Newtek is taking this technology or indeed how much (i hate the term but...) 'blue sky thinking' has gone into it.

Larger companies don't have anymore bright ideas than smaller companies, It's individuals within the companies that make a difference. As a programmer I've worked for small companies where people work their socks off and could match any company for insite hard work and great ideas, and larger companies who's coders who just sit around browsing the net, drinking coffee and eating crisps.

Newtek deserve credit for doing what they're doing, it takes guts. :)

kfiram
11-04-2006, 01:28 PM
Larger companies don't have anymore bright ideas than smaller companies, It's individuals within the companies that make a difference.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Newtek can't compete in terms of money (to the best of my knowledge) with companies like Autodesk and Avid. They CAN compete in terms of ideas, and that's what I want to see (in addition, and in parallel, to the necessary "catchup"). This is what, I believe, archiea had in mind when he spoke of "a new philosophy". Or at least that's what I have in mind...

Cageman
11-04-2006, 02:28 PM
As for the rest of this thread - some comments are too ridiculous to even respond to. People who know nothing about the competitors and are still under the notion that LW is complete "out of the box" whereas Maya is not, are best ignored.

I'm the only one in this thread using the term "out of the box" so I guess it's me... :)

Now, you certanly didn't read my comment. I said that LightWave have "certain minor functions that are so much more easy to use out of the box". One example... if I want to transfer the motion of one object (bone, geometry, light etc) to another object in another scenefile in Maya, there aren't any easy to use options to do that. Maybe, if I sat down a couple of days I could possibly create a MEL-script that does the job, or I could open the scene where I want the motion, reference the animated object, select all its keyframes and copy/paste to the new object.

In LightWave you have:
1. Save/Load Motion for an object/light/whatever
2. Graph Editor: Rightclick on an individual channel and select Save.

It's a minor function that can save ALOT of time.....

kfiram
11-04-2006, 02:51 PM
Actually, Cageman, I wasn't referring to you. And in any case, you can find missing features in any package. Sure there are things LW can do that Maya can't, but there are a hellovalot more things Maya can do that LW can't.

Cageman
11-04-2006, 03:41 PM
Actually, Cageman, I wasn't referring to you. And in any case, you can find missing features in any package. Sure there are things LW can do that Maya can't, but there are a hellovalot more things Maya can do that LW can't.

Maya can do it ALL and LW will be limited, but the road to those results can be very, very tricky and timeconsuming. One of the guys at work had some major problems rendering a scene. He and two other guys ended up spending alot of time figuring out what was going on. Finaly, after going through all the settings for MR and investigating the shaders, they found some ngon-shaped object lying beneath another object, and that caused MR to just hickup and die.

And that is just one of many occasions where Mayas complexity have halted the production.

My point is not to say that LW or Maya are better/worse, just that sometimes the straight forwardness of LW suits bettter, and sometimes the complexity of Maya is needed to pull things off. With this in mind, I can't see why any studio that does alot of fast paced work would want to drop LightWave as long as they have staff that knows it inside/out. However, if there aren't enough LW-artists, the stuidos have to move over to another app, even if it means that they have to have more people or spend more time than what they used to do with LightWave.

The real questions is... do we really want a LightWave that has the same complexity as Maya? I think everyone would say yes... but can we keep LightWave as straightforward, simple and usefull in fast paced productions, and turn it into a complex beast if need be?

I certenly agree that there are alot of things that should be done to make LW more usefull in the animation department and other areas as well, but I don't want LW to turn into another Maya.

Pavlov
11-04-2006, 05:50 PM
That's exactly what I'm saying. Newtek can't compete in terms of money (to the best of my knowledge) with companies like Autodesk and Avid. They CAN compete in terms of ideas

Partially agree. Ideas are free, but money is needed anyway to implement these ideas in functioning features.
Lot of people have patentable ideas, but no resource to achieve patents.
Sadly money issue is unavoidable. In LW world, money means licenses sold, or putting most VT/Tricaster money into LW dev - but i guess it's more the opposite. The real shiny diamond in actual LW world is bviously Fprime and soon PIM and upcoming Kray. These together can be competitive over every exhistent render pipeline, so if it was for me, i'd concentrate on these by now.
Core changes are needed along all other things we all know, i'm talking about selling the most possible by now expending few human resources.
Today multiple soft pipelines are common, so LW could become a good platform to have access to extremely powerful engines - Kray 1.7 will be comparable to Vray and Fprime feedback has no equal in the market, PIM will become a standard for realtime and last, LW can access Maxwell too.
A soon as Kray 1.7 is out and Fprime can access LW9 capabilities (if Pim will be out by then, even better), i'd consider a "renderstation" pack option at a competitive price.


Paolo

Exception
11-04-2006, 06:06 PM
Flop.
I said enough in the past. I'm excited about the new 9.2 release. I'm not going to hold my breath, but we have to move forward with what we've got.
Seriously, I depend partly on Lightwave for my day to day work, but I'd rather gnaw my foot off before supporting such ergonomic monsters as 3DS or Maya. Seriously. I can do everything I need to do in LW, and faster than in those other packages. Then again, I'm not an animator, and there is also enough wrong with LW for my field, in fact, since v6 not much has changed for me.. but you know, I'm happy there's people and firms like like Gregorz Ktansky (sp?), Steve Worley, Happy Digital, LWCad and so on, and they keep me trucking.
So, let's sit on our hands a little until monday or tuesday or so, when they release it, and see what they've come up with. I'm sure they intend to please us, so let's anticipate being pleased rather than disappointed. We can at least do that, no?

mikala
11-05-2006, 12:09 AM
Right on Exception right on.

Wickster
11-05-2006, 02:52 AM
Here's an idea...Why don't we quit telling Newtek what to do for now and help them do what we want them to do. Did that make sense?

I believe NT is doing what's best for the company. So...They're probably on track with regaining ground in their future in mind. it'll prolly take a while longer, we prolly won't hear about the secret features that are on that future list and everything is going in the direction we all want them to go...just taking time, because time is money and what kfiram said, NT is battling giants (avid & autodesk). A company wouldn't decide to have their product to "fade away." So just trust NT that they're listening to us and they're doing their best to make LW on top again. Radical changes takes a hekk of a lot of time.

So please lets just move on and help beta test 9.2, the smoother this gets the more .x we get and help shape up the outcome of LWX (pronounced "Lightwave Ten" not X. :)

colkai
11-05-2006, 03:28 AM
Here's an idea...Why don't we quit telling Newtek what to do for now and help them do what we want them to do. Did that make sense?

It did to me, it's what I've been trying to get across for a very long time, without success. When all is said and done, we are consumers, not directors of or developers Newtek, as such, we can ASK for what we'd like, but it's naive in the extreme to think we have any right whatsoever to assume to TELL Newtek what to do.

We are very very lucky, software is one of the few areas in life where you really have any input at all, sometimes, it's easy to forget that this is a gift, not a right.

Mind you, it has to be said, the vitriol is not reserved for Newtek, I've seen some terribly offensive posts in an identical vien to the developers of free software. Users DEMANDING change and features, telling the developers the software is no good. Now this from guys giving software for free, and being weighed aginst software costing a heck of a lot of money.

Dunno, kinda like Autodesk compared to Newtek, people I think tend to foget about resources, their availablilty and the allcoating thereof.

I want all sorts of things from LW9, I've made my POV clear on what those things are (politely), now I just have to see if I get them or not.

We are so very fortunate that there is such a plethora of 3D software out there to choose from. If we were still stuck with one or two packages costing many thousands, on systems costing as much if not more, I wonder if the debates would be so heated?

digital verve
11-05-2006, 04:10 AM
I find it interesting that Chilton's post has not been commented on so far. There are individuals who go beyond constructive crits on some lW forums and seem to love antagonistic behaviour. Newtek have made mistakes obviously and I have been fustrated myself the last couple of months. However, 9.2 beta is out tomor and I'm looking forward to testing those modeler speed boosts that I desperately need for the high poly project i'm working on.

9.2 has come a long way compared to the leap from 7.5 to 8.5, and the 9.x updates is not even half way thru yet I presume. Long standing issues such as OGL performance in modeler and motion blur are getting sorted out, plus more. This is promising news. Now if they can sort out a proper history, enable full modeling ability, good stabilty, instancing, fast radiosity, redesigned char system for Layout by 9.6 then LWs future will be rock solid.

bobakabob
11-05-2006, 05:08 AM
In which case. LW is the ideal software for you

Anyone who doesn't use or has not attempted to use LW for rigging and animation (on at least broadcast quality work) would have difficulty understanding many of the comments regarding LWs shortcomings.

True, though Newtek appear to be serious about upgrading these tools. Hopefully we'll see some of these developments before LW 10. Looks like the team made a decision to improve the rendering facilities first which were always Lightwave's greatest strength. Sure LW has its problems but IMO Lightwave's progress is promising and 9 seems like the most substantial release so far.

hrgiger
11-05-2006, 07:19 AM
Let's cut through some of the BS here. I keep hearing people say Lightwave has to be on top again, Lightwave has to beat those other applications. There is going to be no winner take all, nobody is going to come out on top.
If anything has been shown in the 3D industry, users are fickle. No solution is ever going to be the perfect solution for every user or studio out there. Even if Discreet, which to me is like the Wal-mart of the applicaiton wars (in size, not in price obviously) which will and has gained significant market share due to their consuming of Alias were to keep growing, there will still always be users who hate Max, or just outright prefer other applications. I'm not saying that a company in this business can't fail, they can, but other companies will rise in their place to try for that piece of the marketshare.
Now, as far as what Lightwave can be capable of, I think what it should be shooting for is a viable choice among those top software packages. Newtek should continue to work towards removing the limitations which have hampered it so long, and at the same time add some new (and others not so new) and innovative features that the industry is calling for. If Newtek can do that, if they can open up the SDK and resolve some long standing issues that cause parts of the program to not share information, as well as add some new and exciting features, then the industry could no longer deny the power of Lightwave, especially with its price advantage. If at that point there are still people calling Lightwave "behind the times" or "old and crumbling architecture", then it would just be elitism. I'm not talking about existing studios which probably have their preferences for which software is in their pipeline already, I'm referring to new sales.
If you give the professionals tools that allow for maximum customization, ease of use, powerful production features, and at a lower cost, then Lightwave has a good future of being a very viable piece of the market. You're also catching that part of the market that is emerging new users, you know, those users that many people apparently look down on. The dreaded hobbyists. I keep hearing people also say that Lightwave shouldn't be a hobbyist tool and should cater more to professionals. My argument is why can't it appeal to both. After all, a lot of those silly hobbyists go on to become professionals and those are the kinds of users Newtek should also be catering to.

Thomas
11-05-2006, 07:34 AM
:agree:
Well said hrgiger!


Regards
Thomas

John the Geek
11-05-2006, 08:27 AM
Even if Discreet, which to me is like the Wal-mart of the applicaiton wars (in size, not in price obviously) which will and has gained significant market share due to their consuming of Alias were to keep growing, there will still always be users who hate Max, or just outright prefer other applications.

Discreet didn't consume Alias, Autodesk did. Autodesk prevously consumed Discreet. It's all moot really, but Discreet doesn't exist anymore and neither does Alias.

That doesn't mean much to me. I've never liked Autodesk as a company and Maya and I just couldn't get along so I stuck with LW. I've never tried Max, but I don't feel compelled to go learn it either. LW has the things that I need, and despite it's flaws, it does those things very well.

As far as Alias is concerned, I'm more worried about the fate of Sketchbook Pro. But that's :offtopic:

=)

hrgiger
11-05-2006, 08:34 AM
Discreet didn't consume Alias, Autodesk did. Autodesk prevously consumed Discreet. It's all moot really, but Discreet doesn't exist anymore and neither does Alias.



Thanks for the correction John. Just for the sake of argument, I should have just said company A consumed company B because it all means the same to me.

hrgiger
11-05-2006, 11:12 AM
We're in an interesting position right now. The v9 cycle is largely our way of bridging the old with the new. But due to the nature of our industry, our users can't wait for a complete rewrite of everything before we ship another product. There are bugs to be fixed, and in some cases this requires quite a bit of work. If you haven't noticed, a lot has changed under the hood. That will continue with each new version.

I don't think we need a complete rewrite of everything, but some portions of LW are under the scope, and are changing. Why not change everything? Not everything is broken. And once we have finished polishing this version, our next step is probably not something I can talk about.

We know what our users want, what they expect, and what's at stake. We're also very aware of what our competitors are promising people, what they're actually delivering, and where the industry is going. Just keep in mind that LightWave is not a plug-in. Rewriting any critical portion of it creates a very real butterfly effect. But we do have an internal roadmap for the product, and I suspect the results of it will be very well received by our users.

But frankly, that's not my specialty. I can tell you a bit about what went (and is still going) into the Universal Binary version on the Mac.

You simply can't have a Universal Binary with the underlying code we had. And it's no secret that a lot of things were done in a very non-Mac-like fashion before. Now they will be. And in this process, a number of things changed on the Mac side that aren't so obvious.

We've changed a LOT on the Mac side.

These are the general reasons that the first app we're releasing in 9.2 is based on the CodeWarrior shell. The Universal Binary will follow shortly thereafter.

This is critical to having a solid UB release version. We need to know if any platform specific bugs are in the hoard of new code that went into the UB version, or if they're something more specific to our Mac implementation.

-Chilton

Quoted for the significance of it.

RonGC
11-05-2006, 11:43 AM
Well arent we a negative bunch this week. I want, I want, give me, give Me. Adolescent behaviour at best.

Give the boys and gals at Newtek a bit of a chance to get product out to us, get on board on the Beta and help sort out the bugs, do something positive just for once in your lives.

Im sick of coming to this forum and listening, Ad nauseum, to the same old tired whinging. Our part in this whole process is to support the software developer so that they can produce a world class product.

This does not mean being puppets but instead providing creative ideas, bug reports, feature requests all intended to push the product in a positive direction.

I like the coments of Chilton, hrgiger etc. in that they are being informative not just ranting.

You have been given the opportunity to be involved in the development of the software, through both forum input and Open Betas, to a level not seen in other software products before. It is up to you if you want to sit on the fence, ***** and squander that opportunity or, get actively invovled in a positive helpful manner.

It is extremely easy to sit at the keyboard and type out vitrol, howabout instead taking a little time and think about a few helpful solutions.

"If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem."

My two cents Canadian.

Ron

SP00
11-05-2006, 12:36 PM
I swear I am seeing a thread like this every single week with the same exact people. Aren't you guys tired of this doom and gloom talk about LW. The problem with these threads is that it is a repeat of all the other threads. Its constantly being repeated. Newtek is aware of your concerns, repeating your complaints are only making things harder for NT. All you guys are doing is making LW user leave LW by scaring them. Sorry to offend anyone, but how are you guys helping NT by whining? Sometimes I wonder who is NT worst enemy, Autodesk or the users who constantly complains. :thumbsdow

mikala
11-05-2006, 12:55 PM
Yahoo finally people with something "constructive" to say!

Wickster
11-05-2006, 01:05 PM
That's why I said, lets just move on. I for one can't wait to try out 9.2. So I'm giong to bed while the sun is still up and hopefully wake up and the downloads are ready...I just hope getting hungry and having to go to work don't get in the way. :D

Exception
11-05-2006, 01:07 PM
Ok so the last 15 posts have been all people saying 'hey let's move on'...
let's stop posting that we should move on, and move on. :)

I am going to pee my pants... it's already been 2pm here, but not yet in texas!
Ohboyohboyohboy!!!

bryphi7
11-05-2006, 01:07 PM
23 hours till lift off...

hrgiger
11-05-2006, 01:14 PM
23 hours, don't you mean 1 day and 23 hours?

2 days for me since I'm EST.

bryphi7
11-05-2006, 01:24 PM
isn't tommorow the 6th?

Exception
11-05-2006, 01:27 PM
Yes!
It's tomorrow!

*hands out donuts*

hrgiger
11-05-2006, 03:15 PM
isn't tommorow the 6th?


Doh! I guess it is. For some reason I had Tuesday in my mind. Not sure why... I'm not disappointed in this case.

Dodgy
11-05-2006, 04:11 PM
Ok so the last 15 posts have been all people saying 'hey let's move on'...
let's stop posting that we should move on, and move on. :)


LOL I second that!

CoryC
11-05-2006, 08:00 PM
I swear I am seeing a thread like this every single week with the same exact people.

That is why the 'Ignore' feature is so handy

Ade
11-05-2006, 11:05 PM
Hi Archiea,



We're in an interesting position right now. The v9 cycle is largely our way of bridging the old with the new. But due to the nature of our industry, our users can't wait for a complete rewrite of everything before we ship another product. There are bugs to be fixed, and in some cases this requires quite a bit of work. If you haven't noticed, a lot has changed under the hood. That will continue with each new version.

I don't think we need a complete rewrite of everything, but some portions of LW are under the scope, and are changing. Why not change everything? Not everything is broken. And once we have finished polishing this version, our next step is probably not something I can talk about.

We know what our users want, what they expect, and what's at stake. We're also very aware of what our competitors are promising people, what they're actually delivering, and where the industry is going. Just keep in mind that LightWave is not a plug-in. Rewriting any critical portion of it creates a very real butterfly effect. But we do have an internal roadmap for the product, and I suspect the results of it will be very well received by our users.

But frankly, that's not my specialty. I can tell you a bit about what went (and is still going) into the Universal Binary version on the Mac.

You simply can't have a Universal Binary with the underlying code we had. And it's no secret that a lot of things were done in a very non-Mac-like fashion before. Now they will be. And in this process, a number of things changed on the Mac side that aren't so obvious.

We've changed a LOT on the Mac side.

These are the general reasons that the first app we're releasing in 9.2 is based on the CodeWarrior shell. The Universal Binary will follow shortly thereafter.

This is critical to having a solid UB release version. We need to know if any platform specific bugs are in the hoard of new code that went into the UB version, or if they're something more specific to our Mac implementation.

-Chilton


Why wasnt this done with LW9? I was told from many in this forum LW9 laid the foundations for a UB version, now your saying 9.2 will.

I think I have had enough and will be selling my license, mac support in newtek is rubbish. Noone seems to have an issue with the mac except you guys. It seems Newtek is always playing catchup with the macs while others are innovating.

Ade
11-05-2006, 11:14 PM
Hi Archiea,



We're in an interesting position right now. The v9 cycle is largely our way of bridging the old with the new. But due to the nature of our industry, our users can't wait for a complete rewrite of everything before we ship another product. There are bugs to be fixed, and in some cases this requires quite a bit of work. If you haven't noticed, a lot has changed under the hood. That will continue with each new version.

I don't think we need a complete rewrite of everything, but some portions of LW are under the scope, and are changing. Why not change everything? Not everything is broken. And once we have finished polishing this version, our next step is probably not something I can talk about.

We know what our users want, what they expect, and what's at stake. We're also very aware of what our competitors are promising people, what they're actually delivering, and where the industry is going. Just keep in mind that LightWave is not a plug-in. Rewriting any critical portion of it creates a very real butterfly effect. But we do have an internal roadmap for the product, and I suspect the results of it will be very well received by our users.

But frankly, that's not my specialty. I can tell you a bit about what went (and is still going) into the Universal Binary version on the Mac.

You simply can't have a Universal Binary with the underlying code we had. And it's no secret that a lot of things were done in a very non-Mac-like fashion before. Now they will be. And in this process, a number of things changed on the Mac side that aren't so obvious.

We've changed a LOT on the Mac side.

These are the general reasons that the first app we're releasing in 9.2 is based on the CodeWarrior shell. The Universal Binary will follow shortly thereafter.

This is critical to having a solid UB release version. We need to know if any platform specific bugs are in the hoard of new code that went into the UB version, or if they're something more specific to our Mac implementation.

-Chilton



Why wasnt this done with LW9? I was told from many in this forum LW9 laid the foundations for a UB version, now your saying 9.2 will.
What happened to the 64Bit version? Has it even been started?
Slowly im moving away from LW, I cant be bothered anymore with this.

Chilton
11-05-2006, 11:23 PM
Hi,


Why wasnt this done with LW9? I was told from many in this forum LW9 laid the foundations for a UB version, now your saying 9.2 will.


The work of redesigning and recoding the application for XCode and Universal Binaries has indeed proceeded through several cycles now. It has taken several cycles because it is a huge job. It was never the kind of task, given the codebase, that could have been done in a single development cycle whether that cycle was for an ordinal or an incremental update, and no one from NewTek ever claimed that it was. The foundations were laid long ago, but that only means that work progressed to the rest of what it takes to build the house. We're working hard to complete that effort, and in proper time will bring UB to an Open Beta cycle as well.



I think I have had enough and will be selling my license, mac support in newtek is rubbish. Noone seems to have an issue with the mac except you guys. It seems Newtek is always playing catchup with the macs while others are innovating.

We don't have any Mac problems now. But I'm also not going to be responsible for a half-hearted Universal Binary version, or I would have patched up the squirrelly bits and shipped it already.

This is a new stage in the future of NewTek's Mac software--it's going to start big, and get bigger.

-Chilton

Chilton
11-05-2006, 11:31 PM
Why wasnt this done with LW9? I was told from many in this forum LW9 laid the foundations for a UB version, now your saying 9.2 will.

I believe that the first solid statement regarding the Universal Binary was that it would appear during the 9.x cycle. It was demonstrated at SIGGRAPH and WWDC this year, but is not up to the (admittedly high) standards we have now set for our Macintosh releases.



What happened to the 64Bit version? Has it even been started?
Slowly im moving away from LW, I cant be bothered anymore with this.

Details of the 64-bit Mac version have not been announced at this time, mainly because I'm not sure if we're going to target Tiger with it or not. And ***ALL*** discussions regarding Leopard violate NDAs, something I am committed to upholding, even if others in the Mac industry are not.

All of our effort right now (on the Mac side) is going into the Universal Binary. Where possible though, we are obviously eyeing the 64-bit APIs.

-Chilton

robertn2k
11-05-2006, 11:35 PM
Autodesk is not the enemy, Maxon is. Cinema 4D continues to gain market share and version 10 is a pretty impressive upgrade from them with major improvements to the interface. Their modular approach and tight integration with Final Cut and After Effects is quite impressive. Their biggest drawback is their pricing. Even their educational pricing is too much. I guess they think if they charge Autodesk prices they'll be taken more seriously by folks. If C4DR10 (Studio version) was $795.00, Maxon could really give LW a run for the money. I'd be more worried about them then anyone else in the marketplace.

All I can do is keep fighting the battle to keep Lightwave in our labs here at FSU. Students learn the product and go out into the real world and ask for it when they get there. By participating in the Beta programs I hope the feedback helps Newtek make Lightwave the best product it can be so when students ask for it......it will be there.

toby
11-06-2006, 01:55 AM
But it IS happening right now and you have to be blind not to see it. LW is being dropped (or at least "supplemented") by almost every serious studio.

No major studio can rely on LW alone.
They don't do that with Maya or Max either. Why does that matter?

They either leave to Maya or XSI, or use these packages in tandem with LW, usually as means of a gradual transition towards those other apps. Those handful studios that still haven't done that (not sure there are any) will surely do so in the near future. That's an exaggeration. There's no way you could know that, and as a matter of fact there are studios using it for national TV and for major films, and have no plans to leave it.


What's worse, emerging studios (not "one man bands". Real studios geared toward TV and film work) wouldn't even consider adopting LW as their app of choice. There's no "new blood" coming in. At least not on the higher levels.

LW was never completely on par with Maya, but it always had its strong points. It surely was on par or better than Max. It was far ahead of Cinema4D. There were times almost nobody used Softimage or Houdini. And off course, there were no Silo/Modo/Hexagon breathing down Newtek's neck.
Nowadays, LW is far behind ALL those other apps. That's a crock, you're beginning to sound like a troll. Can you animate in Modo yet? They're what, a year and a half behind their release date? C4D is much better than it used to be, but there's no way LW is 'far behind' them.



Any measures Newtek is taking to claim back some common ground, are being carried ever so slowly, while the competition is progressing at massive, giant steps.

Sure, 9.x development cycle isn't complete. We all know that. But at the current pace of things, it looks like at least 2 years before a full fledged package finally emerges. One with real integration between modeler and Layout, usable animation and rigging tools, a modern and fast rendering engine, an open SDK... Surely you don't suppose this could all be handled in the course of 1 year.
No, so what do you suppose they do about it? Pull the most advanced and inventive software in history out of their *****?


Now, do you suppose the competition will wait during those 2 long years? Or is it safer to assume that by then, LW will be even further behind?

Do you see the problem? Do you understand that if things continue to move at this pace, more and more users will leave to greener pastures? Can't you see that this calls for something drastic? Can't you see that Newtek's current philosophy of small incremental steps will get us nowhere?
The reason they're doing it gradually is so that we're not stuck with LW 8.0 for two years. That would most assuredly kill LW.

I really don't understand posts like this. You shouldn't worry so much about who the 'King' of 3D software is.

*Wow, late to the party. I think Safari must not have loaded the whole page again.

tyrot
11-06-2006, 02:16 AM
dear robert

i tried C4D. Yes it has better features. But it is not a LW replacement. GI is slow. With KRAY, PIM, TrueHair, FF, LWCAD ..Lightwave is simply unbeatable with this price range.

I was moaning too , but i realized it doesnt do good for me and my business. I am gonna support more 3rd party for their devoted work on LW.

Somehow 9.0-9.2 silence scared me but it has passed already. Life is good. I am returning my LW FAN BASE.

(And of course i want better After Effects integration..or mograph modules. But NT is not doing eyecandy stuff right now. once they do the work probably future will be so much brighter. I feel really bad about making negative comments about LW future in past months.)

BEST

colkai
11-06-2006, 02:35 AM
I feel really bad about making negative comments about LW future in past months.
Tyrot,
Hey old chap, don't fret it, we all have had our times of disgruntlement over the last few months. Now we wait and see how LW9.2 turns out and if we feel any better after it.
I'll admit, even little ole me, one of LW's staunchest supporters, have had my moments of doubt and concern. I think part of it is, it's not like we are getting one release with everything in, Newtek can't do it given the workload they've laid out and I totally get that as a developer myself.

Doesn't stop ya getting twtichy though at times, I'm sure it's driving Newtek nuts that they know where they are headed but can't give folks what they want to give them just yet.

Matt
11-06-2006, 06:24 AM
Daft question, but where exactly do you visit on the site to apply for the beta, if I'm led to believe we have to do since the NDA from the previous one has changed?

John the Geek
11-06-2006, 06:33 AM
I think I have had enough and will be selling my license, mac support in newtek is rubbish.

Give up Lightwave for? 3D Studio Max for Mac? Are you confident in Autodesk's future plans for Maya? (Or will it eventually go where AutoCAD for Mac went?) Good luck with that.

I'm very confident in NewTek's Mac support at this time and have every intention of sticking with Lightwave for at least the v9.x cycle. As a company that's radically improving their product, and software I've already purchased, I may as well see if they can get it right first before I jump ship.


No one seems to have an issue with the mac except you guys.

That's because most companies ignore the Mac completely because they don't know what it's capable of. They think there's only like 3 of us out there or something.

=)

Thomas
11-06-2006, 06:38 AM
I'm very confident in NewTek's Mac support at this time and have every intention of sticking with Lightwave for at least the v9.x cycle. As a company that's radically improving their product, and software I've already purchased, I may as well see if they can get it right first before I jump ship.
:agree:
NewTek's mac-support have never looked better, imho.


Regards
Thomas

Kuzey
11-06-2006, 06:50 AM
Let me in!!!!!

Let me in!!!!

:D

As you know, I have Lw9 but not a powerful enough computer to run it on and when I enter my serial for 9 it won't work but it does when I enter LW8 serial number.

ps. that's the serial number from my Registration page.

Can anything be done about ??

:lol:

Kuzey

Dave Jerrard
11-06-2006, 06:57 AM
But it IS happening right now and you have to be blind not to see it. LW is being dropped (or at least "supplemented") by almost every serious studio.
No major studio can rely on LW alone. They either leave to Maya or XSI, or use these packages in tandem with LW, usually as means of a gradual transition towards those other apps. Those handful studios that still haven't done that (not sure there are any) will surely do so in the near future.Interesting world you live in. In the one we live in, LW is used a lot more, and by very large studios, than it's given credit for.



What's worse, emerging studios (not "one man bands". Real studios geared toward TV and film work) wouldn't even consider adopting LW as their app of choice. There's no "new blood" coming in. At least not on the higher levels.The downside of basing business decisions on some uninformed magazine articles written by people that either don't know anything about the capabilities of software, only list off names that they're familiar with, haven't done any thorough research into what they're writing about, or for NDA & other legal reasons, haven't been told the whole truth. It's amazing, and sadly, common around here for studios to not be allowed to mention what software was used for a particular project because of the stupidity and arrogance of producers, directors and moronic executives that insist that only software X is to be used, even though it may be the least capable choice. And yet, when LW or another app is used to bail the project out, no credit is given to that app, because, well, it wasn't supposed to be used anyway.




Nowadays, LW is far behind ALL those other apps. Any measures Newtek is taking to claim back some common ground, are being carried ever so slowly, while the competition is progressing at massive, giant steps.Now look at that in context. XSI was GONE for four years while it was being sat on by Micrsoft, and then being redeveloped from the ground up. Cinema 4D was likewise missing in action as it was being re-written. Silo & Hexagon had no prior versions to upgrade from - they're ground up builds as well, and they offered NOTHING before they were released. NewTek has been offering updates every 3-4 months for the past couple years, so you always had at least some new features and bug fixes. Would you rather they just stopped with any updates at all until their new ground-up build was ready? Apparently not, since you're on this forum complaining about each update they do put out.



Sure, 9.x development cycle isn't complete. We all know that. But at the current pace of things, it looks like at least 2 years before a full fledged package finally emerges.About half the time it took for XSI & C4D. Hmmm.


One with real integration between modeler and Layout, usable animation and rigging tools, a modern and fast rendering engine, an open SDK... Surely you don't suppose this could all be handled in the course of 1 year. Don't forget the list of bug fixes and core changes, etc... I don't expect all this to be done in a year. Again, it took XSI and C4D and other apps much longer than this. Why all the pressure on NewTek to do everything in a matter of months? Where's Modo's animation tools? Where's their SDK? I don't see much in the way of animation tools for Hexagon or Silo either.

As for a fast render engine, it's already getting pretty swift. I just rendreed a frame that took LW7.5 over 6 hours to do and LW9 did it in under 30 minutes, and it looked much better. I don't know if your world has the same math rules, but in this world, that's a 12x speed improvement. Generally though, most of my scenes are 2-3 times faster, and this is with the same hardware.



Now, do you suppose the competition will wait during those 2 long years? Or is it safer to assume that by then, LW will be even further behind? It's cyclic. Everything jumps ahead at different times. NewTek used to be a leader. Now it's jumping ahead while the others are languishing. What's the latest big feature for Maya?


Do you see the problem? Do you understand that if things continue to move at this pace, more and more users will leave to greener pastures? Can't you see that this calls for something drastic? Can't you see that Newtek's current philosophy of small incremental steps will get us nowhere?I guess you haven't noticed that the nature of software design IS incremental steps. Ever wonder what those version numbers mean? Hmm. Maya 8. That implies that there have been at least 7 prior incremental versions before this one. You can't just create software that does everything in a single shot. It doesn't happen. New stuff always comes along during the process. Sometimes it can be worked in with the design, and other times it can't, or at least not quickly, and then core changes are required again.

Over here, LightWave is the poor abused kid that people turn to to write their homework, essays, etc., when the big guys can't do it themselves, and rarely gets any credit.


He Who Was Making The Maya Artists Jealous At Warner Bros. Feature Animation.

John the Geek
11-06-2006, 07:01 AM
Let me in!!!!!

Let me in!!!!

:D

As you know, I have Lw9 but not a powerful enough computer to run it on and when I enter my serial for 9 it won't work but it does when I enter LW8 serial number.

ps. that's the serial number from my Registration page.

Can anything be done about ??

:lol:

Kuzey


It's not open yet. You're trying to download 9.0.0 again with your 8 SN. Wrong banner. Wait until 2:00 PM in Texas according to the announcement.

Kuzey
11-06-2006, 07:11 AM
Thanks John,

For a minute there I thought everyone was having fun without me.

:D

Kuzey

Exception
11-06-2006, 09:41 AM
[car analogy]

It takes some time to screw a turbo in a car.... you mnight miss a race or two... and then when you race you have the obvious turbo lag... but at the end of the strip, you'll most likely be ahead of the competition than without it.

[/car analogy]

TomT
11-06-2006, 10:45 AM
:agree:
NewTek's mac-support have never looked better, imho.


Regards
Thomas
:agree:

I would credit Chilton's near heroic, single-handed efforts here. He appears genuinely interested in improving the Mac community's view of NT and LW.

-T

Lewis
11-06-2006, 11:05 AM
I'm not a MAC user but I visit MAC part of forum regluary since Chilton started to make more posts :).

T-Light
11-06-2006, 11:31 AM
Forgive me for being a dullard here, are we really getting new serial numbers for 9.2 beta or is that just rumour? I understood them for 9.0 beta, but not for 9.2, after all, the 7-7.5c and 8.0-8.5 series worked throughout on the same s/n???

Intuition
11-06-2006, 12:06 PM
I bet we do because a beta ser # is temporary and different then the full lic.

Yet, a full lic number hasn't changed during a series. I wonder if, when they release the full Ver. 9.2 if we go back to the same full lic # ?

BazC
11-06-2006, 12:11 PM
I bet we do because a beta ser # is temporary and different then the full lic.

Yup, they won't want functioning betas floating around after they've served their purpose, we'll be on time limited serials again I'm sure.

Kurtis
11-06-2006, 12:14 PM
There will be serial numbers and temporary license keys for the Open Beta. When the update is officially released to the public, it will use the same serial number and license key as your registered copy of LightWave v9(.0).

Matt
11-06-2006, 12:19 PM
Daft question, but where exactly do you visit on the site to apply for the beta, if I'm led to believe we have to do since the NDA from the previous one has changed?

Can someone from NT PLEASE answer this question!

Thanks

:)

Kurtis
11-06-2006, 12:27 PM
The LightWave v9.2 Open Beta program will be open to all registered owners of LightWave v9.0 educational or commercial licenses. When the program begins, all qualified applicants will need to log-in to their NewTek product registration account at http://register.newtek.com. If you are qualified, you will see a LightWave v9.2 Open Beta banner at the top of the page. Click this banner to read and agree to the NDA and provide your NewTek Discussion Forums log-in ID. Once you have done this, please download the software appropriate for your platform from your My Downloads page.

Is this what you're asking for?

connerh
11-06-2006, 12:28 PM
It'll be under the registration page, which is where you went to register your current copy of LW. They said that there will be a 9.2 banner to click on once it's open.


Kurtis is too ****ed quick for me.

Cougar12dk
11-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Uhmm. I'm braindamaged, but still........there doesn't seem to be an installation file with the beta, just the plugin and program folders. What's up with that?

T-Light
11-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Instructions for OB 9.2 are the beta forums :)

serge
11-06-2006, 04:11 PM
Uhmm. I'm braindamaged, but still........there doesn't seem to be an installation file with the beta, just the plugin and program folders. What's up with that?
If you don't have an installer, extract the zipfile to a folder (create one). It says so in the email you should have recieved.

Pavlov
11-06-2006, 04:12 PM
problem is: where are beta forums now ?

serge
11-06-2006, 04:16 PM
problem is: where are beta forums now ?


The Open Beta forums are now open. Please try this link while you are logged-in to the forums.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=185
If you cannot reach this link yet, people are being added as fast as possible. If you are not able to reach the link within 2 business days and do not receive an email asking for updated information, please contact Customer Service for assistance.
...

Cougar12dk
11-06-2006, 04:17 PM
'Cept I didn't receive the email after I re-registered

I actually did extract the files from the .zip, but even after I re-enter the lic.key I got from my page here on NewTek's site, it runs in Discovery mode. I have the ver. 7.3 Sentinel, I would suppose downgrading to 7.1.1 isn't going to fix this......or?

gjjackson
11-06-2006, 04:23 PM
You may have to comment out the other keys in there, if there are any.

Maxx
11-06-2006, 09:35 PM
Cougar12DK - did you create your own License.key file or was there one there already? My extract off the zip didn't have the file to begin with, so I created it from scratch and had no issues.

However - and please, mods, delete this if it breaks the new NDA - does anybody who's installed know if the beta uses the same paths as 9.0 for config files? Should I add a tag to the end of my target path on the shortcut or is that all taken care of?

Kurtis
11-07-2006, 02:08 AM
However - and please, mods, delete this if it breaks the new NDA - does anybody who's installed know if the beta uses the same paths as 9.0 for config files? Should I add a tag to the end of my target path on the shortcut or is that all taken care of?

Yes, you should use the " -c" method to redirect your config files from your shortcuts.

Pavlov
11-07-2006, 02:21 AM
all went fine here, but still no access to b-forums.
Question: are there some docs for new features ?

thanks,
Paolo

Kurtis
11-07-2006, 02:23 AM
all went fine here, but still no access to b-forums.
Question: are there some docs for new features ?

thanks,
Paolo

Yes. As soon as you have access to the Open Beta Forums, all the documentation is linked there like last time.

Maxx
11-07-2006, 05:45 AM
Just want to take a second here to say thanks, Kurtis. You've been all over the forums for the last several hours, and that fact that you can still type after the amount of posts you've logged is kinda amazing right now. So, thanks for the info and patience, and thanks NT for the update!

:I_Love_Ne

And now can i have access to the OB forums, plz? :D

EmperorPete
11-07-2006, 05:59 AM
I agree; awesome work, Kurtis, and indeed everyone involved in this beta. I've had no problems whatsoever. Kudos! :)

Kurtis
11-07-2006, 06:35 AM
Thanks. :D

gjjackson
11-07-2006, 06:56 AM
Kudos to Kurtis too. These guys at Newtek seem to put in a Lot of hours. Some real dedicated people there at NT.

Lew
11-07-2006, 08:51 AM
Yes, you should use the " -c" method to redirect your config files from your shortcuts.

My machine don't do no stinkin -c. Gives me the this is not valid fine name error every time. I've tried about every combo, with " " and without - just wont' do it.

On the other side, it runs just great with out doing any of that stuff. The config files went somewhere, but didn't seem to overwirte the 9.0 files.

It would have been OK even if they did, 9.0 needs to be uninstalled and reinstalled anyway, and I probably won't bother if I can use 9.2.

Very confusing, never had such detailed instructions that don't work. If anyone has a clue why, would love to hear it.

Lew

serge
11-07-2006, 08:58 AM
My machine don't do no stinkin -c. Gives me the this is not valid fine name error every time. I've tried about every combo, with " " and without - just wont' do it.
Keep trying, Lew. I had the same thing (Windows XP-pro). I think I finally wrote the path down in notepad, and then copied it to the target.

mikala
11-07-2006, 09:02 AM
Had the same problem as you Lew and tried your workaround serge and still nothing.
Like Lew works fine without.

T-Light
11-07-2006, 09:03 AM
:agree:
Can't believe you were still up and typing Kurtis, Thanks for putting in the all the extra hours :) Be carefull though, you'll loose the Darth Kurtis tag if you're not carefull :devil: :D

BeeVee
11-07-2006, 09:18 AM
For those that are having trouble with the command line, here's an aid. Windows doesn't understand the difference between a car park for big cars, and a large car park in the following phrase: "It's a big car park". In order for it to understand, you need to enclose things in quotes, so either it's a "big car" park, or a big "car park". The same is true of your commandline.

If for instance, LightWave is located here:

C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Programs\LightWav.exe

then the computer will think that the necessary file to launch is C:\Program and it will think that everything afterward is arguments, options or somesuch. If you put it in quotes:

"C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Programs\LightWav.exe"

then the computer will know to treat everything inside those quotes as one item, just like "big car" and "car park".

Thus, the commandline for redirecting configs for LightWave at that location is as follows:

"C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Programs\LightWav.exe" -c"C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Programs\LightWav.exe"

Obviously, if you're LightWave is not exactly there, then it won't work...

B

Scazzino
11-07-2006, 09:25 AM
And here's some information on setting up Mac Command Line (http://dreamlight.com/insights/10/cmdline_files.html) files.

BeeVee
11-07-2006, 09:31 AM
Thanks Mike! It was enough of an effort to write all the above! :D

B

wildr3d
11-07-2006, 09:33 AM
Thanks BeeVee,

I do the -0 disable hub thing and couldn't figure out
why -c would not work, till after your post I checked my
old shortcut and saw the path in quotes, good catch!

Scazzino
11-07-2006, 09:34 AM
No problem BeeVee! :thumbsup:

Lewis
11-07-2006, 09:35 AM
i just DRAG LW icons (from location where they are installed) to Quick Launch tab or Desktop and make shortcut and then edit it's properties by just adding -c and rest of line is correct since windows made it by themself :). works liek charm since Lw 6.5/7.0 :D.

BeeVee
11-07-2006, 09:36 AM
Wow! Glad I could help Rhythm & Hues! :D

B

wildr3d
11-07-2006, 10:06 AM
Wow! Glad I could help Rhythm & Hues! :D

B

This is for my personal copy.

Ade
11-07-2006, 10:00 PM
Autodesk is not the enemy, Maxon is. Cinema 4D continues to gain market share and version 10 is a pretty impressive upgrade from them with major improvements to the interface. Their modular approach and tight integration with Final Cut and After Effects is quite impressive. Their biggest drawback is their pricing. Even their educational pricing is too much. I guess they think if they charge Autodesk prices they'll be taken more seriously by folks. If C4DR10 (Studio version) was $795.00, Maxon could really give LW a run for the money. I'd be more worried about them then anyone else in the marketplace.

All I can do is keep fighting the battle to keep Lightwave in our labs here at FSU. Students learn the product and go out into the real world and ask for it when they get there. By participating in the Beta programs I hope the feedback helps Newtek make Lightwave the best product it can be so when students ask for it......it will be there.


I think this is a wrong approach. You want to try and keep lightwave in your lab for what sake?
I spent 5 years of my life with lightwave and they have lost all the market to Cinema 4d and Maya, even 3Dmax is up there too now. When your students leave school they wont be better off.

C4d has mograph world (has the modules for it)
3dmax has Archi world (Vray rules)
Maya has the movie VFX world (its dynamics show)

Lightwave used to have VFX and television, it fell behind with its out of date renderer, rubbish particles and dynamics from 1990 Sea Quest DSV.


What market does LW have now that it can do better than the other guys? It specialises in nothing, just tries to do everything but half assed.

Your students are better off if you teach them NON-software dependencies.

Ade
11-07-2006, 10:07 PM
I know i sound a little to harsh but being in this field for 5 years and watch all lightwave use dry up in australia has been a bit hard. You can only get a job if you know 3dmax, maya or c4d here.
Noone wants lightwave as it does not fit in with their work flow.

I wish Newtek would choose a market and specialise in it. C4d has taken a market from LW, that was mograph and TV with their innovative modules.
The way I see it is if gnomon doesnt support it, your wasting your time.

Ade
11-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Good luck to Chilton though he seems very dedicated... I wasnt aware of his position. I hope Chilton you can show NT the advantages of Macs core design technologies to aid LW's usabilities.



***** this 2 min edit window.

Chilton
11-07-2006, 10:51 PM
I'm definitely a Mac user of the kool-aid drinking variety. So the guys at NewTek HQ are possibly getting sick of me sticking white Apple logos on their cars. Maybe they won't read this thread. At any rate, I replied to your post on CG Talk earlier, but it looks like they're moderating me for a bit, what with me being new to that board and all. I hope you stick around at least a little longer, and take a look at the UB version. I think you'll like it.

BTW, one of the things I plan on doing after the UB version is on store shelves is putting together a package to help our users get their content into third party game engines like Torque and Unity3D. Well, Mac users at least--PC users have an abundance of this sort of thing.

I started a game a few years ago, based on the Torque engine, but quickly ran into a lot of Mac specific problems, because all of the cool tools were on the PC. I was trying to do it on the cheap, so I used Blender to build a lot of my models. I would like to take another stab at it, and this time use either Unity3D or Torque (or both), and do the objects and scenes entirely in LW.

-Chilton

Chuck
11-08-2006, 11:00 AM
Good luck to Chilton though he seems very dedicated... I wasnt aware of his position. I hope Chilton you can show NT the advantages of Macs core design technologies to aid LW's usabilities.


We were already convinced of the advantages of the Mac's core design technologies. That's why we found such an experienced developer who understood the exciting new technologies in the OS well and put him to work on LightWave.

And we all knew where the stickers were coming from, Chilton! Now pass the Kool-aid and let's keep it moving on the UB front! ;)

ItsPete
11-08-2006, 11:37 AM
>>Unity3D

woot! :)

metahumanity
11-08-2006, 12:09 PM
I know i sound a little to harsh but being in this field for 5 years and watch all lightwave use dry up in australia has been a bit hard. You can only get a job if you know 3dmax, maya or c4d here.
Noone wants lightwave as it does not fit in with their work flow.

I


Same here in Europe..

zardoz
11-08-2006, 12:56 PM
same here...

oi metahumanity...acho que nunca te tinha visto por aqui...já há uns quantos tugas por aqui.

John the Geek
11-08-2006, 01:49 PM
And we all knew where the stickers were coming from, Chilton! Now pass the Kool-aid and let's keep it moving on the UB front! ;)

I have about 600 of those stickers if you want any more. =)

hairy_llama
11-28-2006, 11:38 PM
Any news on the new features of 9.2?

gjjackson
11-30-2006, 03:34 PM
Nda.