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sudac20
10-27-2006, 09:46 PM
We need software that actually works. I am sick and tired of excuses, if you as company no longer have the resources to sustain you product then drop it. LW 9 is a joke. I tried not to be one of the many bashers/haters but I too am sick and tired of this bug ridden garbage. Donít give me it is my GFX card or my OSÖ I have several top of the line computers with different configs and Lightwave is just as buggy on each of them. I cannot think of any software that has given me such a headache. What a shame that such a great piece of software has fallen to such a low. :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

MooseDog
10-27-2006, 10:12 PM
Can't argue with steel-trap reasoning like that, now can I. I'm sold, count me in. ur rite, n whn ur rite ur rite. ttfn.

Carm3D
10-28-2006, 03:40 AM
It's pretty stable to me. Clearing bones from a scene can cause it to crash, so I know to save before doing that.

It's good enough to use in production; everything on my site is LW. I run it without the hub. I hear the hub causes alot of problems. Try disabling the hub and see if that helps.

zapper1998
10-28-2006, 04:13 AM
Real Solid here, I flush plugins, before I shut it down, Actually LW 9 has been real solid as a rock on my machine....and I run the hub no hub problems at all..

Sensei
10-28-2006, 05:37 AM
So far I found two replicable crashes:
1) adding plug-ins in Modeler causes crash.. It must be broken in one of the latest Release Candidates, because LW9 betas weren't crashing..
2) when my laptop is rendering animation, QuickTime, from still frames, and screen is dimmed to save battery and I move mouse to show it again Layout always crashes.. But it could be gfx driver issue..

I wasn't playing long with bones that was making LW8.5 almost useless in this department, and people stayed with LW8.3 just to animate characters, but so far LW9 didn't crash on my machine while little playing with bones..

Dodgy
10-28-2006, 06:54 AM
I get the guaranteed crashing with adding plugins in modeler, and I have had the occasional crash with using quicktime when it hasn't been properly installed, but other than that, fairly stable.

MooseDog
10-28-2006, 07:27 AM
I get the guaranteed crashing with adding plugins in modeler......adding plug-ins in Modeler causes crash

interesting. hasn't happened here...yet:D . only niggling problem is layout tends to corrupt scenes if i work on one for quite awhile, tweaking, changing a ton. also lots of nodal changes crash layout on exit (nothing lost or anything though so not harmful). otherwise rock solid:thumbsup: (don't use the hub i don't :) )

sculptactive
10-28-2006, 09:04 AM
Yeh, Modeler crashing after adding plugins and layout error crashing on exit are my main bugs... Thankfully not much else

Exception
10-28-2006, 10:18 AM
I get the guaranteed crashing with adding plugins in modeler, and I have had the occasional crash with using quicktime when it hasn't been properly installed, but other than that, fairly stable.

Unfortunately,
I have the guaranteed crash after using one of your fine plugins more than once. I honestly think there should be some kind of system that prevents a plugins to crash the application. Comeon, this is 2006...

Sensei
10-28-2006, 10:25 AM
One want efficiency and more open SDK, and you want completely reverse.. This can't be done both at the same time..

Stooch
10-28-2006, 11:49 AM
I think I can deduce your age and education level by UR post. Not looking good for U.

sudac20
10-28-2006, 12:37 PM
I think I can deduce your age and education level by UR post. Not looking good for U.

Stooch, I am not into personal attacks nor I am not trying to insult anyone on these forums. I had tight deadline and LW crashing almost caused me to miss it. The post was written out of frustration due to a product that I am becoming annoyed with. I have been using Lightwave for over 10 years and I am concerned with the direction it is heading. I just spent 16,000.00 on software upgrades because Lightwave is slowing down my workflow to such a degree that is no longer cost effective to use. I truly want the new development team to succeed. Unfortunately time is money and I cannot wait for v10 or v11 for Newtek to get things right. (I have a masterís degree by the way and I am 30)

Stooch
10-28-2006, 01:11 PM
Ah, see how much more effective you can be with a calmer tone :)

oDDity
10-28-2006, 01:22 PM
What I don't understand is why go though the extended beta testing period. I mean, some of these bugs are quite obvious and must have been spotted back then.

Sensei
10-28-2006, 01:44 PM
LW betas that I saw didn't crash Modeler while adding plug-ins.. So it must be added recently just right before releasing.. ;) Funny..

Cageman
10-28-2006, 02:36 PM
As Megalodon said, use LW8.x when doing things that cause LW9.0 to crash. I've been using LW8.3 for most things except rendering, because LW9.0 have rendered my stuff faster than LW8.x.

Wonderpup
10-28-2006, 04:01 PM
The problem is that this new instability is probably an inevitable consequence of making radical changes to the software- the very changes that we are all crying out for.

Yes using 8.5 is an option- but it's also a council of despair, given the fact that the ongoing work is likely to throw up more instability. Do we sit on 8.5 untill 10, or 11 or when?

When 9 was first announced I was really pleased because it looked like things were moving forward again. A year and a half later I still don't really have access to the features I upgraded for, partly because some have not yet been implememted and partly because even those that I have access to I am afraid to use lest I find myself stranded in the midde of a job by a random bug.

I have a lot invested in Lightwave and a genuine affection for the software and the company that produce it, but I am becoming increasingly nervous at the prospect of betting my future in this game.

bryphi7
10-28-2006, 04:18 PM
It is a shame... I haven't had to much instability, but its not what I thought I was paying for! If you look at what NT has been able to accomplish compared to the competitions, you have to question their ability. When I use the other software that I own it makes LW's workflow look and feel real real bad.

Sensei
10-28-2006, 04:24 PM
It is a shame... I haven't had to much instability, but its not what I thought I was paying for! If you look at what NT has been able to accomplish compared to the competitions, you have to question their ability.

The more money, the more programmers, that make better work.. Not always, but usually..


When I use the other software that I own it makes LW's workflow look and feel real real bad.

In that case I don't understand why are you still using it..

bryphi7
10-28-2006, 04:32 PM
Well when I paid for it I thought I was getting something else... I am slowly weaning myself off of it though. I guess I am just like everyone else here... hoping that NT pulls through with a modern app.

Are you pleased with the program and its progress?

kfinla
10-28-2006, 04:37 PM
I've been using LW since v. 6.0b and went throught the unstable builds in the 7.x series. I'm on 8.3 currently. I keep waiting for a good reason to move to 9. its sad to hear LW still crashes on exiting the app.

I personally think a lot of the problems with LW is that they just dont have a big enough dev. team. They can only tackle so many things each year and thats why we have this whole playing catch-up, and unsquished bugs problem. Just a theory. Its probably comes down to econimics.

Cageman
10-28-2006, 04:39 PM
It is a shame... I haven't had to much instability, but its not what I thought I was paying for! If you look at what NT has been able to accomplish compared to the competitions, you have to question their ability. When I use the other software that I own it makes LW's workflow look and feel real real bad.

From a workflow perspective, some things in LW are bad, but having said that, certain aspects of LW are very fast. It isn't just marketing talk when people say that they can do certain things so much faster in LW. In these cases, workflow may be fast, but with a trade-off. You will come to a certain point when you feel the tools you are using can't be pushed further. Some people can, but most people hit the roof and get mad. :)

Take Maya as an example, it is very complex and alot of things I've done in Maya would have been alot faster to do in LW, but if I would choose LW for the job, I wouldn't have the ability to tweak things the way Maya offers me to do. In these cases I wish LW could offer the same type of "tweakability" Maya offers, but keep the workflow the way it is.

Shading/texturing is one of those areas where you can talk about good workflow in LW with similar "tweakability" as in Maya. For a fast-paced job, I could go for the layer-system in LW and if the client wants some more juice, I could go into Nodebased shading. In Maya, I have to do the nodeshading, wether or not I need that kind of "tweakability".

Have you ever tried to take an objects animation or individual channels animation, save it, load it onto another object in another scene in Maya? There are workarounds to do this, but even our MEL-guy said it was alot of hassle to make it work. I ended up using Maya2LW2 m2l-format. :)
LW does this "out of the box"...

bryphi7
10-28-2006, 04:43 PM
The more money, the more programmers, that make better work.. Not always, but usually..

You know more about programing in 3d then I ever will, but when trying to be innovative in 3d... don't you think that the talent of the programer means much more then the quantity of programers?

Sensei
10-28-2006, 04:46 PM
Are you pleased with the program and its progress?

Nodal is big enhancement, never touched traditional surfacing after LW9.. Edges were implemented with current old architecture, so you get what you could get- otherwise new LWO file-format must be developed with new chunks.. Edges are fake to be honest, there's no single sign of them in Layout.. And for edge weighting nasty trick with vertex maps was used, instead of having true edge map.. But as I said, it would require new enhanced LWO, that must be updated by the all 3rd party developers and other 3d application vendors, which would be big hustle for them..

APS is also great addition, but when Worley told me that they're not frozen by LW SDK function to freezing object, I was really surprised.. With LW SDK functions playing with APS, they're only useful to LW and 3rd party can't support them..

kfinla
10-28-2006, 04:51 PM
It can be hard to be innovative when you have tons of bug fix tasks on your plate. Again more ppl would equal more time on a per person basis vs. trying to hammer though a to-do list a mile long.

Again, i think NT has the problem of each year having to do a bunch of things with a shallow pool of ppl. They need to add flashy new things each version to get us to buy the next version while fixing old things that obviosuly arent flashy for marketing. Things fall through the cracks.

Sensei
10-28-2006, 04:52 PM
You know more about programing in 3d then I ever will, but when trying to be innovative in 3d... don't you think that the talent of the programer means much more then the quantity of programers?

"Innovative in 3d" is not job for programmers, but project management that tell programmers what to do, and how to do.. But you need to have quite big team to have project managers that take care of everything and understand everything, and are professional programmers as well as good 3d artists to understand what is doable and what is not..

bryphi7
10-28-2006, 05:06 PM
From a workflow perspective, some things in LW are bad, but having said that, certain aspects of LW are very fast. It isn't just marketing talk when people say that they can do certain things so much faster in LW. In these cases, workflow may be fast, but with a trade-off. You will come to a certain point when you feel the tools you are using can't be pushed further. Some people can, but most people hit the roof and get mad. :)

Take Maya as an example, it is very complex and alot of things I've done in Maya would have been alot faster to do in LW, but if I would choose LW for the job, I wouldn't have the ability to tweak things the way Maya offers me to do. In these cases I wish LW could offer the same type of "tweakability" Maya offers, but keep the workflow the way it is.

Shading/texturing is one of those areas where you can talk about good workflow in LW with similar "tweakability" as in Maya. For a fast-paced job, I could go for the layer-system in LW and if the client wants some more juice, I could go into Nodebased shading. In Maya, I have to do the nodeshading, wether or not I need that kind of "tweakability".

Have you ever tried to take an objects animation or individual channels animation, save it, load it onto another object in another scene in Maya? There are workarounds to do this, but even our MEL-guy said it was alot of hassle to make it work. I ended up using Maya2LW2 m2l-format. :)
LW does this "out of the box"...

never used maya... C4d, xsi, zbush, bodypaint, and of course LW.
Modeling in LW is great, better then the rest IMO. The speed of modeler and the tools could be better though! I am not saying LW is useless, just that there are a few tools that the others have that makes it more and more not worth using LW, for me anyway. I like to do everything in post, and LW makes that way harder then it needs to be.


Edges were implemented with current old architecture, so you get what you could get- otherwise new LWO file-format must be developed with new chunks.. Edges are fake to be honest, there's no single sign of them in Layout.. And for edge weighting nasty trick with vertex maps was used, instead of having true edge map.. But as I said, it would require new enhanced LWO, that must be updated by the all 3rd party developers and other 3d application vendors, which would be big hustle for them..
So what you are saying is nothing has changed and the program is a hacked together mess? I thought lw was reborn!:stumped:

Sensei
10-28-2006, 05:23 PM
So what you are saying is nothing has changed and the program is a hacked together mess? I thought lw was reborn!:stumped:

No, you're overreacting.. Modeler's MeshEditOp structure that's passed to the all interactive and non-interactive modeling tools has been enhanced the first time since v6 or so.. and this was the biggest change ever made to this structure..

LW9 has also very large changes to render engine..

Overall, LW8-> LW9 is much bigger step, than LW7 -> LW8..

Cageman
10-28-2006, 05:23 PM
I like to do everything in post, and LW makes that way harder then it needs to be.

Hmm... are you talking about rendering things as different passes and do compositing? If so, yes.. LW:s architecture (separate scenefiles and object files) makes the process somewhat different and more timeconsuming. However, there are free tools that can speed the process up. Esp. when it comes to saving multiple objects for a different scene-setup and shading.

But yeah... this is an area where things could be improved alot. Like a global surface tab which is saved with the scene rather than the object and could override the settings of the surfaces on the objects (for setting up different scenes with other types of shading etc).

bryphi7
10-28-2006, 05:41 PM
The lights kinda suck too, in comparison to the others.
Global surfaces would be wonderful, been asking for that for a while.
This is my whole thing, and then I am done on this thread before it degrades any further... Look at NT's progress and look at their competitors. Where does that leave us in 2 years? Further behind!

believe me... I would love for the 4.5 years that I have used LW for not to have been a waist!!!

sensei,
Their render improvements need render improvements IMO!

erikals
10-28-2006, 05:41 PM
I see your frustration, don't quite get that they chose to release an unfinished product, though it's not the end of the world, it could been worse... Things seem to go a bit slow, but it is probably the rewrite that causes it.

If not satisfied there's other cheap software out there too, not mentioning names, but I'm gonna buy an extra app to mix with LW.

That said, there are things to bash in other progs too. Several apps have had troubled times after a rewrite, but after some time they strike back. That's what I assume LW10 and beyond will do.

So APS will not be supported in FPrime?
I'll assume that is wrong info. If not, NT should look into it.

bryphi7
10-28-2006, 05:45 PM
well Fprime uses the display subpatch, so no it will not...

bryphi7
10-29-2006, 01:41 AM
I know I said I was done with this thread , but I can't resist...

What exactly does you making money with LW have to do with the quality of the program?

Are you pleased with the progress of LW?

Cageman
10-29-2006, 01:41 AM
Even though I use Maya at work, I don't see myself leaving LightWave anytime soon. I just love doing things the LW-way, well... not ALL things, but many things are fun to do in LW, where they are tedious and boring in Maya. :)

Actually, I don't understand the concept of leaving an app. You will always get yourself in a situation where you just wished you could have done that particular task in LW instead of app x. And vice versa... If LW is limiting your ability in certain aspects, then go for a another software to do that particular job.

I'm eagerly awaiting all those "talk nice with other appz" enhancements that should be around the corner. If LW could be used seamless with other apps (yeah, dreaming now...) there is no reason for studios to turn down LW-users who wants to use LW for certain tasks...

Sensei
10-29-2006, 02:08 AM
but I could still make money with LW5.6 so for now it doesn't make much sense to even consider it.


We haven't even had one point upgrade or service release yet

What?!? Are you having LW5.6 and nothing better?!

We stopped supporting anything else than LW8.x a long time ago, and newly made plug-ins are for LW8 or LW9 and above.. ;)

Ztreem
10-29-2006, 02:17 AM
What?!? Are you having LW5.6 and nothing better?

I think he meant that there's no point release of 9 yet. :)

Sensei
10-29-2006, 02:23 AM
LW9 has much more reasons to upgrade than LW7 and 8 together..

GandB
10-29-2006, 05:53 AM
Well I suppose I should toss in my 2 bits. I wasn't really around for the whole move to version 8. It seems that we all can agree that Lightwave needs to continue growing in a positive direction; the issue is how fast this happens. Depending on what we use LW for, on an individual basis, the speed with which the transition to a fully functional/enabled program is processed, could make the difference between users staying with Lightwave or moving to another application.

Personally I would rather spend the $500 to get XSI:Foundation, as a suppliment to Lightwave. I'm a game developer, but I'd like to get into the higher-poly side of the house both for cutscenes (in-game) and for commercial work (selling on Turbosquid, the3DStudio.com, etc.). I also have a few ideas I want to see come to fruition some day (apart from games).

I'd like to have one program to do it all, but I recognize that no such program exists today. The best I can do is cut down my pipeline to as few programs as possible, while maintaining efficiency and output quality. For the most part (aside from the game engine itself); a game artist needs a 3D program, a 2D program (with an animation system), and a good UV Mapper (if the native utility isn't up to snuff...personally I've used Ultimate Unwrap 3D for some time now). For the game artist who is in the "industry", additional items may be neccessary; a program that generates various texture maps (like Zbrush), and good character animation (like XSI and Max).

A game artist also has to make sure the program he uses (primarily 3D) can be used to make "exportable" media. For example, the Torque engine; it requires its objects to be in .DTS format. There has been an excellent converter (for free) available for Lightwave for some time now. A newer engine (Beyond Virtual), even imports .LWO directly. I believe NewTek really needs to focus on game development MUCH more than they have, Lightwave is competitively priced for the Indy Game Artist; with a package that has pretty much everything you need. There aren't too many Indy artists that need strong CA tools. Game development time runs from 6 months to 2 years on average (depending on the complexity of the game, and the developers real job) for an Independent developer/team.

From what I've seen so far, by the time I need stronger tools, Lightwave will have them implemented. If not, then I'll simply buy what I need to suppliment LW...not abandon it. Even if I was to move onto a program such as Max (don't see me having that kind of cash any time soon), I still wouldn't get rid of LW...what would be the point in it? Many of these programs today excel in one area or another. Being an independent developer (and the ONLY artist of the group), I need to have a "Swiss Army Knife" of applications to get the job done.

But I can't speak for the companies/individuals that do studio work, and whose livelyhood depends on a smooth and functioning pipeline. Like I said, I'm new around here.:D

-Keith

digital verve
10-29-2006, 07:17 AM
I am really annoyed that the fast opengl in modeler updates promised for 8.5 were not implemented, then not implemented in 9.0 and the next update which should include it has not even been released as a beta yet after 3 months. I got the LW upgrade rather than the other package based on having those improvements in the 9.0 release. A release that was very late, even as a beta. I only use LW for simple stuff compared to many of you guys, but if I am not happy (and most of my posts regarding LW have been positive on various forums up until recently)........... I'll stop here b4 I waste my time going further into a not helpful rant mode. :cursin:

John the Geek
10-29-2006, 09:05 AM
I recently returned to LW from a brief hiatus. I went from 7.5 to 9.0 and have found the new version to be good. I haven't had a single crash yet, but in truth I'm a novice user and haven't had the new version very long.

But then I also killed the hub as so many people suggested.

I once waited for Quark to "reinvent" XPress after so many years and eventually gave up in frustration and went Adobe InDesign instead. It's been a blessing and I haven't looked back since, but I don't see myself jumping ship from LW at this point yet. I sense the really good stuff is right around the corner, and I know that a lot of bugs are being addressed in the next update. I get the impression that 9.1 will be a significant update. I plan to participate in the open beta once it's available to help make 9.1 a better release.

I'm willing to wait a bit longer to see if the new team gets it right, or at least a little closer. =)

JamesCurtis
10-29-2006, 09:21 AM
LW9 for me has been pretty stable so far. Besides, I'm not so young anymore that I want to have to learn another App anytime soon! My brain hurts as it is!!

True, I do get an occasional crash when I quit Layout too soon after clearing a scene or quitting. But it's 1 out of probably 50 sessions.

Do wish they'd get the point relase OB going though!!

Wonderpup
10-29-2006, 01:28 PM
I sense the really good stuff is right around the corner

I've had this feeling for years, but the fullfillment still seems elusive. There is good stuff to celebrate here, nodal being the obvious example. But the fact is that I still don't really have a serious option to use more than four sided polys when modeling, or modeling tools in layout or even a reliable version of nine to work with.

I do understand that the new team have a mountain to climb, and I can imagine how depressing it must be to read negative stuff when your working so hard- but none if this solves my basic problem- that I need a modern, reliable tool in order to be competitive. The fact is that I am scared to commit to 9 at present because it exhibits an alarming degree of random behavior (for me)

I really hope we see some solid updates in the near term that put these concerns to rest, but I have decided to begin the process of learning another app simply because I can't afford not to. For me this is not a trivial decision- I don't really have the time right now, but as I see it I don't have a choice.

iangregory
10-29-2006, 01:39 PM
I've just purchased 3d studio max 9 - I teach it at a local college and needed a copy for home to develop curriculum. Guess what? It crashed on me this morning while doing something quite simple (I was extruding an edge).
I'm quite sure that the lightwave folks (and the autodesk folks) will iron out any problems with the software itself. I also feel quite sure that many of the problems aren't with the software, but with the thousands of different system configurations that we collectively have.
My point is, that if you're looking for problem free software, good luck! Adobe has about the closest thing to that, and that will even crash on occassion.
Newtek - I love lightwave in spite of the problems and feel confident that it will just keep getting better. Keep at it, and give us an update soon.
Making my Christmas request,
Ian

daveycrocketcat
10-29-2006, 02:00 PM
Ok I'm new to this posting thing. I'm running an older 7.5d I love the program but keep running into glitches also. I've tried shutting other programs right down and it seems to help to some degree, but my main problem is with the rendering end. If I'm running hypervoxels life becomes a nightmare with render crashes. When I try to render a scene completely...well I can never make it to the final render without a crash (thank god for saving the pics)
Everything else seems to be stable. Also hard on deadlines. Any ideas out there? Older version someone must have run into this before!

Exception
10-29-2006, 04:10 PM
Maybe that one didn't but we all found a massive amount of critical bugs that were shipped along with LW when it was released just fine.
I found the bug testing to be slow, uninsighful due to a bad bug report system, with little feedback from Newtek and it was ended much earlier than I expected, with important bugs still all over the place.

The question is now, as the bug testing continues and still there are very little feedback reports from the team, how many will be fixed at 9.1, and, really guys, we should have had a 9.0a or b or c or whatever to take care of those first glaring few.

JamesCurtis
10-29-2006, 07:36 PM
Actually, I wonder how long it takes Adibe to get a bug fix out on any of thier programs when its discovered? Other apps too?!!

Phil
10-30-2006, 12:28 AM
Given Adobe's recent glacial release pace, and rather limited upgrades, I'm not sure they have the ability to introduce too many bugs.

In general, Photoshop has always been utterly reliable so far as I have used it (up to CS - CS2 was too slow, too minor an upgrade and I disliked the license control system on the demo). I have never had Photoshop crash. Illustrator 10 is more flaky. Premiere also has been stable, at least up to 6.5 - never run anything newer.

Regarding LW, nuking the hub is definitely the way to go. I have had no problems at all since switching it off and program startup is much faster as well. Modeler seems to be the most broken of the two apps - Layout has generally proved reliable during all manner of abuse. Up to 9.0, this trend in reliability was reversed for me....Layout would be a house of cards and Modeler would be robust.

Stooch
10-30-2006, 03:07 AM
lol. how many times has a thread like this been discussed? is there a glitch in the matrix? my initial response was a bit rude i guess but its really hard to see the point in rants like these?

I think a coherent description of the problem sent to newtek tech support could have done alot more to resolve the posters issues and get the point across that they need to get on the ball. This just adds to the noise. you could say that you are doing a service to the community by pointing out flaws, but the truth is that its nothing new. everyone is aware of it and it would be foolish to assume that newtek is just sitting on their asses.

Its nice to see that some people realize that there is no such thing as a bug free app. I use a total of 6 different applications depending on the task and all of them exibit crashing. ALL OF THEM. so i could go on each forum and ***** at them all and threaten to switch apps...

i think the moral of the story is, if the app is causing you grief or missing your deadlines, talk to the software company first and resolve the issues by giving consise and accurate feedback. If that fails... move on to a different app :)

Wonderpup
10-30-2006, 03:43 AM
Last night I fired up my hub free layout, loaded my test object- a capsule primitive- to see if I could use the twist deformer on it.

I created a null for the base, cloned it, moved the clone, reselcted the first null and layout crashed.

This is not about a few bugs that can be identified and worked around, this is about not being able to function at all in a realistic way- I can't see how I can my work done with 9 as it is at present.

Yes it probably is my particular system that's interacting here- but the fact is I run a lot of other software on the same sytem with no problem at all.

Why do threads like this exist? They attract a lot of views and contributions so they fill some kind of need. The positive spin is that while people are on here complaining they're still engaged on some level. Most of the people who were regulars on this forum when I first became involved with it are gone.

BeeVee
10-30-2006, 04:04 AM
I would say so Wonderpup. I just followed your instructions and had no trouble at all, but then perhaps I missed a step or two - had you already added the Twist Displacement to the object when you added the nulls? Was there a step where you assigned the Base and Handle that should have been in there? This is a site (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html) that I like to refer to before I report what I think is a bug. Please don't think I'm being condescending, bug reporting is a tricky and time-consuming business.

B

Phil
10-30-2006, 07:04 AM
It would help if LW was able to provide logs. There are very subtle 'random' behaviours in LW and when something dies, it's not always reproducible. Having logging or debug builds available to allow the user (if they are sufficiently interested) to compile a proper bug report would be very helpful.

For me, I report all the information available. Sadly, there isn't very much of it. The hub weirdness is a case in point. Literally, one hour it can be working and the next all you can see is smoking wreckage. No indication why, but it's always Modeler that crashes and burns. I wouldn't even have any idea of where to start, and frankly that's not my job. It should be as trivial as attaching a log to an email and firing it into [email protected]

Mozilla implements this kind of feature in thunderbird and firefox. Maybe it would make sense in LW 9.0 given the churn that is slated for 9.x.

gjjackson
10-30-2006, 07:11 AM
Are there third party plugins loaded. There Does seem to be some issues there. In order to correct it I had to clear out all the plugins and configs and start over. I Am wondering if there are issues with the amount of undo's. When I go back and forth with undo's there seems to be a crash. I can't consistently reproduce some of these, except the plugins.

tyrot
10-30-2006, 08:02 AM
dear wavers

after reading horror stories about LW9, i have joined the 8.5 army. I have a business to run, clients to serve and it would be crazy to play gamble over business.

Question: My hub is not working.
Answer: Disable it.
Q: Really?
A: Yes. It has issues.

Q: But if i disable it, two separate modules will be totally separated, i think our final aim was to have an unique, unified, bug free Lightwave wasnt it?
A: Yes, but disable it.

Q: So but you claimed that you killed hundred of long term bugs of early versions. But we have a HUBBUG. I mean bridge is not working between modeler and layout..how can you explain that?
A: disable it. wait for a newsletter. we are killing bugs.
Q: Is it a tape recorder?
A: disable it. wait for a newsletter....

Q: Best?
A: disable it. you have issues.

Wonderpup
10-30-2006, 11:12 AM
Hi BeeVee,

Thanks for the reply. To answer the question- I never got as far as applying the twist displacement to my object- I was just trying to get the two nulls in place first. The steps I described above are a complete description of what I did.

As for repoting it as bug- well the second time I tried it worked just fine, and the twist worked a treat- so is it a bug or a random, non repeatable event?

My problem is not specific, reportable bugs, its a global fragility that seems to strike at random for almost no reason- it's getting to the point where I'm mentaly cringing everytime I hit a button.

New features I can wait for, but basic stability is something I need today.

Ulven
10-30-2006, 11:15 AM
This rewrite of the core seems to include a whole lot of copy/paste doesn't it?

Sensei
10-30-2006, 11:32 AM
My problem is not specific, reportable bugs, its a global fragility that seems to strike at random for almost no reason- it's getting to the point where I'm mentaly cringing everytime I hit a button.

Sounds like problems with memory.. Remove them and put them again carefully.. If this doesn't help, try exchanging to others with f.e. friend or 2nd machine, just for a day to see whether it changed anything.. It can be also sign of overheating CPU and/or gfx card, especially when there's high CPU/GFX load..

Cageman
10-30-2006, 02:04 PM
dear wavers

after reading horror stories about LW9, i have joined the 8.5 army. I have a business to run, clients to serve and it would be crazy to play gamble over business.

Question: My hub is not working.
Answer: Disable it.
Q: Really?
A: Yes. It has issues.

Q: But if i disable it, two separate modules will be totally separated, i think our final aim was to have an unique, unified, bug free Lightwave wasnt it?
A: Yes, but disable it.

Q: So but you claimed that you killed hundred of long term bugs of early versions. But we have a HUBBUG. I mean bridge is not working between modeler and layout..how can you explain that?
A: disable it. wait for a newsletter. we are killing bugs.
Q: Is it a tape recorder?
A: disable it. wait for a newsletter....

Q: Best?
A: disable it. you have issues.

LOL. :) I cracked up on this one... Funny and true (for approx half the community at least). But be sure to try out LW9 for rendering. It seems to be working without any significant issues, and most of the time I've seen speedboosts. :)

Exception
10-30-2006, 03:33 PM
LOL. :) I cracked up on this one... Funny and true (for approx half the community at least). But be sure to try out LW9 for rendering. It seems to be working without any significant issues, and most of the time I've seen speedboosts. :)


Mine just crashed while rendering for hours...
I mean... darn, that never used to happen :\

Sensei
10-30-2006, 03:42 PM
Mine just crashed while rendering for hours...
I mean... darn, that never used to happen :\

I noticed that on my laptop LW9 always crashes when it's rendering and I switch to 2nd application for too long, or battery safe mode is turned on, when mouse is not moved for too long (crash happens when I go back to LW) Very annoying, cause I have to move mouse all the time, and don't even watch websites at the same time.. It's good that I have so many computers, otherwise I would be really pissed off.. ;)

Wonderpup
10-30-2006, 04:39 PM
Sounds like problems with memory.. Remove them and put them again carefully.. If this doesn't help, try exchanging to others with f.e. friend or 2nd machine, just for a day to see whether it changed anything.. It can be also sign of overheating CPU and/or gfx card, especially when there's high CPU/GFX load..

Thanks for the suggestions Sensei- I'm going to be replacing the memory in the near future so here's hoping.

Not sure about the high load thing- I'm using very simple scenes for my tests- subpatched primitives and nulls.

Exception
10-31-2006, 12:18 AM
Well my machine died, completely. so I'm not ruling out an OS issue.
Just reinstalled it completely...

pfff, what a drag.