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s4man3
10-20-2006, 05:54 PM
How do you set up your renders for 35mm film?
I have rendered my iamge sequences at 1828 x 1331 resolution. I used QuickTime Pro 7 to made .mov file out of the sequences. My Camera in LightWave is set up at Width: 1828, Height: 1332, Pixel Ratio: 1.0
My Mask Options is set at: Left:0, Top:196, Width:1828, Height:940
of course "Use Mask is Checked.

But when I try to bring the movie file into Final Cut Pro HD 4.5, I get an acess denied error. What am I doing wrong?

Chilton
10-20-2006, 08:59 PM
How do you set up your renders for 35mm film?
I have rendered my iamge sequences at 1828 x 1331 resolution. I used QuickTime Pro 7 to made .mov file out of the sequences. My Camera in LightWave is set up at Width: 1828, Height: 1332, Pixel Ratio: 1.0
My Mask Options is set at: Left:0, Top:196, Width:1828, Height:940
of course "Use Mask is Checked.

But when I try to bring the movie file into Final Cut Pro HD 4.5, I get an acess denied error. What am I doing wrong?

Hi,

If you're having problems importing that movie into CFP, it's probably a result of something wonky that QT did.

Quit QT Pro, and then reopen the movie you just made *in* QT Pro.

If it opens, the problem is on the FCP side. If it does not, the problem is in the QT exporter.

If it does open, quit QT, and try opening the movie in FCP. It probably will open.

-Chilton

harlan
10-22-2006, 10:12 PM
What codec are you using to compile your mov in QT?

One possible issue is the usage of FCP 4.5 & QT7. QT7 came out after FCP 4.5 did, and it's possible that 4.5 isn't 'understanding' the mov file on account of it being created in QT7 (especially if you're using a QT7 specific codec like h.264).

As Chilton mentioned, open the file in QT and see if it works. The file may work just fine in QT but not in FCP which could be related to the generational gap between FCP 4.5 & QT7, but it could also indicate an issue with FCP.

It's also possible that the mov file corrupted upon export which could result in an unusable file. Try exporting your image sequence again to a new mov file and see if that works.

Another possible cause is the mov file having a "locked" or "read only" attribute applied to it, which could possibly cause that error in FCP as FCP wouldn't be able to manipulate the data. I'd have to check wether or not FCP will let you access a "read only" file when I get to the studio tomorrow.

Out of curiosity, why are you rendering to those frame sizes if 35mm is your output medium? Those frame sizes just sound a bit odd for 35mm. This wouldn't have any affect on the problem you're having in FCP, I'm just curious. If you can provide some more detail regarding your workflow/process, I'd be happy to take a look at it and possibly provide you some tips.

If I think of anything else, I'll drop you a note here. Good luck.

s4man3
12-09-2006, 12:56 PM
Sorry it took so long for me to respond, but I been buried deep in DV editing deadlines.

Thanks you, for your help. I imported the Quicktime Pro 7 .mov files into adobe Premiere 6.5 and exported back out to a .mov file and had no problem re-importing that into FCP 4.5. I think you were right about that H.264 codec. Because Premiere does not do that codec. But I don't know how to set up the proper dimension in Lightwave. I called a DV to Film conversion company from New York and they told me to use those dinemsions for Academic 35mm film.

Can you tell me the real deal here.

Sincerely,
Steve

toby
12-10-2006, 01:49 AM
Not sure I understand, can't you just use 1828 x 1331 with no mask?

s4man3
12-16-2006, 09:03 PM
Thanks for the answer it helped a lot. I appreciate the answer. Now I use Mpeg-4 instead of H.264. H.264 was crisp and clear , but made bigger .mov files and the playback in Final Cut Pro was choppy and not smooth.

I have started building Final Cut Pro Sequences at 1828 by 1332. The files come into FCP find now. Sometimes when I play the edited sequences the timeline freezes or does not play the movie smoothly.

How to you set up and get the .tga or .tiff Final Editing Program to Film?
I am outputting files at Academic 1/2K into (1828 x 1332) 1828 x 940 to be editted i Final Cut Pro. Once edited in Final Cut Pro and audio in created and synced with Footage. what do I do? Output at QuickTime or a Sequenced .TiFF files? .Mov? and send the film to someone to Convert it to film?

Does anyone know what dimensions and output setup you should have to get 3D files 35mm Academic 1/2K into 1828 x 1332 into Final Cut Pro for editing, and then finally to prepare the footage for conversion to Film.

LightWave to Final Cut Pro to 35mm Academy 1/2K Film...

Can anyone help?

Maybe it is better just to scale the sequence images down to 720 x 486 D1 NTSC for DVD output then later have the High-Resolution sequences image translated to motion film, once I know I have a winner film?

What do the big boys do?

Activator
12-26-2006, 10:08 AM
For "35mm" projection of your 3D sequences, I would ONLY output at "2k" resolution (2048x1536 square pixels) 24fps. This is what I deliver to Hollywood finishing houses, and it works for ALL their output needs. The 1828x1332 size you are using is considered "Cineon Half", and will look a little less smooth when up-sized to full film resolution.

Be aware that some formats a finishing house will output may crop a good portion of the top and bottom of the frame (such as going from 2k to HD), so design accordingly!

As a sort of "catch-all", some people simply output 3D sequences at "HD" size (1920x1080) which will scale up fairly well to 35mm (though not as good as full "2k"), scale down to D1 for DVD and broadcast, and work natively in Final Cut HD.

But, a single "2k" render allows a high quality conversion to any film format, as well as HD and D1.

You should also be using the Quicktime "Animation" Codec, which outputs the best looking "compressed" files. Especially if it is eventually going to be projected! MPEG-4 is going to look blotchy...

s4man3
12-29-2006, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the Codec and Resolution advice, I really need to know what codec and resolutions that the Pros are using. This saves I am already re-Rendering things according to this new advice.

I was doing some experiments with different codecs and I noticed that the Quicktime Animation codec looked sharper than some other codecs such as DV NTSC, but in some case the gradually gradient area like the radius of light from a lamp post light or from the sun in outter-would band a little.

toby
12-29-2006, 10:07 PM
Thanks for the Codec and Resolution advice, I really need to know what codec and resolutions that the Pros are using. This saves I am already re-Rendering things according to this new advice.

I was doing some experiments with different codecs and I noticed that the Quicktime Animation codec looked sharper than some other codecs such as DV NTSC, but in some case the gradually gradient area like the radius of light from a lamp post light or from the sun in outter-would band a little.
Make sure you're using 100% quality with the Animation codec, and Millions of colors (lately, Quicktime has been defaulting to Thousands). Animation is supposed to be 100% lossless, so it shouldn't create any banding.

And if you're viewing DV in Quicktime, you need to turn on "high quality", by default it's set to Thousands of colors and low quality for fast playback - from the G3 days...

avkills
12-29-2006, 11:06 PM
Most of the Pros around here render out image sequences rather than QuickTime movies.

I personally render out Targa files. I then use After Effects to convert the image sequence to the editing format I am currently using, which ranges from DV25 to uncompressed 10-bit SD video. There may be some HD stuff in the future though.

-mark

Activator
12-30-2006, 08:08 AM
avkills- You're right about rendering image sequences. I figured that was just "a given". A TGA sequence is definitely the standard delivery format for film projects. Also, rendering an image sequence is the only way to use a renderfarm, which is essential for those huge film files!

As far as banding in the gradient areas... I think Lightwave only outputs 8bits per channel (*)... unless you output at 10 or 16bit color, there's going to be some banding.

*(WILL LW output 10 or 16bit color? I've never looked into that as an option...)

avkills
12-30-2006, 08:22 AM
You can output 16bit files via some image plug-ins. I think RLA and Photoshop output image plug in will do it.

Although the banding should be pretty slight on a TGA files since the data is still in the computer gamut, rather than film or video. Still, once I get the new version of AfterEffects Pro, then I am going to figure out the 16bit output renders.

-mark

toby
12-30-2006, 12:06 PM
LW can output 128bits per channel, using an OpenEXR saver or .flx

brunopeixoto
12-30-2006, 02:51 PM
I found better resultes using Apple Pixlet codec (it was built for CG material).

toby
12-30-2006, 03:47 PM
Pixlet was designed for playback at hi-res and high quality - which is why it's only 24 bit with no alpha. And if you re-compress with it the picture wil degrade, since it's not 100% lossless.

avkills
12-30-2006, 04:25 PM
To add to what Toby said, Pixlet was created so artists could preview full HD frames on the desktop w/o having to export to HD tape decks and such.

From what I understand it is just a proofing/previewing codec.

-mark

s4man3
01-02-2007, 09:31 AM
Are the those 10bit to 24 bit Plug-ins free? or are they commercial plug-ins?

I have been using QuicktimePro to convert my image sequences that my 4 node 2gHz G5 based renderfarm creates, what exactly is the AfterEffects workflow for converting images sequences?

I own AfterEffects version 5.5, do I need to upgrade? Does AfterEffects do a better job at converting Images sequences than QuickTime does?

brunopeixoto
01-02-2007, 09:58 AM
I think that after and shake are good for comps, not just to transform frames in movies.

Iaian7
01-02-2007, 10:03 AM
There could be a bit of a misunderstanding here, 24bit is often the same as 8bit. The first generally refers to all channels (24bit = 8bit Red + 8bit Green + 8bit Blue), and the other refers to the maximum information per channel (so 8bit can actually include Red, Green, Blue, Alpha, Depth, etc...). 16bit also refers to the information per channel; so instead of 256 levels of gray per RGB channel (8bit) you have 65,000+. Which is good. :D

I'm currently using After Effects 5.5 as well. All my effects are rendered in .rla or .rpf formats (using the image filter plugins, allowing me to include depth information and even camera data) and imported directly into AE as an image sequence (go to import, select the first file, check the "image sequence" box, voila!).

After Effects 5.5 should be perfectly fine for outputting files for FCP. Along the lines of the discussions above, I primarily use the Animation codec (for Alpha support) or the Apple Intermediate Codec (for easy previewing and HD res output). To save an image sequence as a .mov, you should be able to drop the sequence into a comp and render out a file fairly easily. I haven't tried directly exporting since my work involves a lot of compositing.

Quicktime may end up being far simpler for easy file sequence conversion, but keep in mind that After Effects will give you a lot more options, especially for depth channels and such (I'm also unsure of QT support for 16bit).

Lightwolf
01-02-2007, 10:43 AM
LW can output 128bits per channel, using an OpenEXR saver or .flx
Not quite. A channel is a single colour component (such as "Red") and is stored using 32bit floating point in LW.
RGB+Alpha (4 channels) would thus be 128bits. If you include all render buffers the number of total bits can go way beyond that, but every channels has 32bits max.

Back OT: I'm biased, but I'd render to OpenEXR, composite in a float capable compositing tool and then edit the result. This give great headroom for further tweaking (colours, whatever) in the compositing app.

Cheers,
Mike

Edit and a small plug: If you don't plan to export buffers, you may well use exrTrader, which provides basic OpenEXR loading and saving for free - and is available for OSX to boot.

avkills
01-02-2007, 11:21 AM
Lightwolf,

Can AE5.5 use the Motion and Depth info from OpenEXR files and does AE 5.5 even support the format?

-mark

Lightwolf
01-02-2007, 11:52 AM
Can AE5.5 use the Motion and Depth info from OpenEXR files and does AE 5.5 even support the format?

AE 5.5 doesn't support OpenEXR, 7.0 does. However, it only loads RGBA. I have yet to find a way for AE to combine channels spread between multiple images to a single "deep" layer (i.e. with depth, motion information).

Cheers,
Mike

avkills
01-02-2007, 12:08 PM
Well I am going to wait for UB After Effects and then get that, probably be called AE8. Thanks for the info Mike.

-mark