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byte_fx
10-17-2006, 04:30 PM
Well - probably not.

Probably just the mouse setup.

Running LW 8.5 in Discovery mode while waiting for my USB dongle.

In Modeler - at least on the PC - you can cycle through the XYZ, HPB, Scale, and Stretch, etc functions rolling the mouse scroll wheel.

Tried that in LW 8.0, 8.3, and 8.5 on the Mac under OS X 10.4.8.

Nada.

How do you set up the mouse to do that in the Mac version. I tried holding down the usual modifier keys but didn't help.

Thanks.

byte_fx

Chilton
10-17-2006, 04:43 PM
Hi,

That is broken in 8.x. Already fixed in the UB.

-Chilton

byte_fx
10-17-2006, 05:26 PM
Thanks Chilton.

No thanks for Newtek though.

How did such a major goof make it thru several bug fix/feature addition updates?

Shame on Newtek.

Looks like I'll be using Bootcamp sooner than I thought.

Or model and do scene setup on the PC then move the files to the Mac for rendering.

That'd probably be faster than rendering on the PC then moving all the renders to the Mac for animating.

byte_fx

Chilton
10-17-2006, 05:29 PM
Hi,

It's partially fixed in v9, actually. Do you have 9 yet? I'd like to know if it's working there or not.

-Chilton

byte_fx
10-17-2006, 05:36 PM
Sorry on 9 - not yet.

Waiting for UB version to be on the shipping disks. Or at least get it on disk.

BTW - what does 'partially fixed' mean apart from bad news?

Just curious - I haven't been following the LW 9 bug log at all.

byte_fx

Chilton
10-17-2006, 05:52 PM
Hi,


Sorry on 9 - not yet.

Waiting for UB version to be on the shipping disks. Or at least get it on disk.

BTW - what does 'partially fixed' mean apart from bad news?

Just curious - I haven't been following the LW 9 bug log at all.

byte_fx

I know the mousewheel works in v9. I just don't know how much of it is working. I've rewritten all of the event architecture for the UB version though, and frankly don't remember how it worked before. But I know it did work. For some reason I was thinking you'd tested this on 9, though I see now I was completely wrong. Probably all the extra caffeine today.

-Chilton

byte_fx
10-17-2006, 08:28 PM
Or maybe all that coding you've been doing.

Which I'm really looking forward to seeing completed.

Anyway - thanks for everything.

byte_fx

eblu
10-18-2006, 07:49 AM
chilton, the scroll wheel cycles through the xform modes in 9, and with a mod key (can't remember which one) it allows you to zoom. I stumbled onto this behavior, so I haven't figured it all out yet. It works tho.

Chilton
10-18-2006, 08:09 AM
Hi Eblu,


chilton, the scroll wheel cycles through the xform modes in 9, and with a mod key (can't remember which one) it allows you to zoom. I stumbled onto this behavior, so I haven't figured it all out yet. It works tho.

Very cool. Thank you for verifying this.

Any idea if any of it (scroll wheel support) is not working right?

Thanks,
-Chilton

eblu
10-18-2006, 09:08 AM
in Layout:
scrollwheel: steps through the transform modes (move rotate scale)
option+scrollwheel: zooms

in modeler:
scrollwheel: not uh... really doing anything.

it seems to work as advertised, the button itself works just fine.

of note: I am using a logitech Mx500, with the default apple driver, in os 10.4.8... I'll try to get a hold of one of the Apple mice later today and see if that works as well.

update:
the mighty mouse does not appear to be compatible with the scroll functions in Lightwave at all.
it appears that you are going to have to address the mighty mouse directly, as its scroll ball seems to Not have anything to do with the code that works with regular scroll wheels.

the middle button, the right button the left button all work... once they are setup properly (the scroll ball button is the third click.)

go here for a description of why:

http://developer.apple.com/qa/qa2005/qa1453.html

Chilton
10-18-2006, 12:40 PM
Hi Eblu,

Thanks for checking that. That definitely explains it, as I'm using the Carbon event in the UB.

(This 'undocumented' Carbon event appears to be in my copy of the Tiger headers, so I assume they updated it at some point, probably fairly recently )

-Chilton

byte_fx
10-20-2006, 11:40 PM
Ok - now that i've calmed down a bit how do I switch between the XYZ, HPB, Scale, Stretch, etc. data entry fields in Modeler 8.x ?

toby
10-21-2006, 02:53 AM
Ok - now that i've calmed down a bit how do I switch between the XYZ, HPB, Scale, Stretch, etc. data entry fields in Modeler 8.x ?
You have to use the hotkeys (t, y, H, h ) or the buttons on the menu. This is true in PC too, as far as I remember. I'll check it on PC again when I go back to work to make sure. Unless you can somehow program your mouse wheel to cycle through the t, y and h key commands?

byte_fx
10-21-2006, 07:33 AM
Thanks.

In the PC version of LW 8.x rocking the scroll wheel will cycle thru the different input fields.

Still can't figure out how Newtek could do all those revs and updates w/o fixing it in the Mac version.

Guess it was just one of those B(efore) C(hilton) things. (to be refered to hereafter as B.C.)

byte_fx

Scazzino
10-21-2006, 07:52 AM
Still can't figure out how Newtek could do all those revs and updates w/o fixing it in the Mac version.

It's never really worked as long as I've used LightWave with a scroll wheel, and since I've only used it on the Mac, I never knew what it was supposed to do, so I never missed it... ;)

I've always used the hotkeys...

Now that more PC LightWave users are switching to the Mac, more of these old Mac only issues will probably stand out more and get fixed!

Chilton
10-21-2006, 08:14 AM
Here's the thing--I don't think this is the best use for the scroll wheel on the Mac. I'm hoping to add an option in the Mac version that toggles between this (cross-platform) behavior and a Mac specific behavior. But that's all I'm going to say about it right now, as I'm not even sure if what I'd like to do is possible in this release.

-Chilton

byte_fx
10-21-2006, 08:45 PM
Personally I don't like hot keys for several reasons.

So the more things I can do with the mouse - and the easier I can do them - the better I like it.

If it comes down to the wire I suppose I can just stick with running LW on a Mac Pro under Windows and using OS X for other related video stuff.

Not that difficult to do.

Already have an 80 gig NTFS partition on the boot drive, a 250 gig NTFS partirion on a second drive and 32 gig FAT32 scratch partitions on two other drives.

If that isn't enough I can always network to the dual Xeon workstation. I just nuked and repaved all the drives in it to add a bunch of FAT32 scratch drives and some large NTFS scratch drives that OS X can read. Useful for importing large folders of rendered frames into the Mac for further processing.

And I'm considering another Mac to act as a storage mule. Heven't decided on also making it a render mule. Both decisions will wait until Leopard comes out.

And buying LW 9 to get the Universal Binary version has suddenly become less important.

byte_fx

toby
10-22-2006, 03:23 PM
Thanks.

In the PC version of LW 8.x rocking the scroll wheel will cycle thru the different input fields.

Still can't figure out how Newtek could do all those revs and updates w/o fixing it in the Mac version.

No, it doesn't do this on the PC version either, not in Modeler. It must be programmed into your mouse.
In Layout it works in both Mac and PC.

byte_fx
10-23-2006, 12:10 AM
It most certaintly does do it under Windows 95, W2K or any of the XP variants I'm aware of. And it has for as long as I can remember - all the way ftom 4.0 to 8.5. Don't remember if it did it on an Amiga with 3.5.

And it's not programmed with the mouse or anywhere else other than Modeler. I use the cheapest Mickey Mouse I can find because I go thru so many of them. $ 80 Logitech's etc. last about four months - so do the $25 plain jane ones from MickeySoft.

Left or right click in empty area above the input tri-windows in lower left of Modeler. Rocking the scroll wheel back and forth should now cycle thru the input window options - xyz, hpb. etc. Once you cycle through the trio of input fields to the set you want then you can alter their settings.

And it works for objects, bones, lights and cameras.

If it doesn't then your install is hosed in some manner. Or your mouse has it's own non-standard settings - maybe as part of some other software?

The mouse behavior is that way out of the box.

If you want to pay your own expenses I'll demonstrate it for you in person.

byte_fx

toby
10-23-2006, 12:27 AM
And it works for objects, bones, lights and cameras.
That's Layout, not Modeler!

As far as I can remember, it's always worked on the Mac, I know I've been doing it since 7.0. I use it all the time. There must be something wrong on your system if it doesn't work. Can you try a different mouse?

eblu
10-23-2006, 08:03 AM
You have to use the hotkeys (t, y, H, h ) or the buttons on the menu. This is true in PC too, as far as I remember. I'll check it on PC again when I go back to work to make sure. Unless you can somehow program your mouse wheel to cycle through the t, y and h key commands?


no.
space bar cycles through the xform controls. you don't Have to use the hot keys.

ChrisPitts
10-23-2006, 08:10 AM
Guess it was just one of those B(efore) C(hilton) things. (to be refered to hereafter as B.C.)

<ducks down a little just in case the lightning is off target>

I'm glad I'm on the opposite side of the building from Chilton. :devil:

Darth Mole
10-23-2006, 10:31 AM
For the record I HATE keys that cycle. I always tap it once too many, have to go round again, and then miss if the second time too. Much prefer distinct buttons.

On a similar(ish) matter, is it about time the Numeric panel in Modeller was renamed to 'Properties', to bring it in line with Layout? Because these days it does way more than just provide numeric access.

byte_fx
10-23-2006, 01:02 PM
OK - my goof.

Don't know why I said Modeler.

DOH!

Anyway - doesn't work in Layout on my Mac Pro.

Not sure why - the Mighty Mouse buttons seem to work fine otherwise Although I find not being to set the action to 'Nothing' when the scroll button is depressed annoying. Not used to that and keep depressing it inadvertantly.

Only other type of mouse I have is the forementioned plain jane MickeySoft type.

At the moment the Mac Pro is back in it's shipping box and sitting in the closet until I can get a router with more ports and find a better place to park the Mac Pro than it was while I was checking it out.

That involves some fabrication and furniure moving that I really don't have time to do at the moment.

But I'm really looking forward to getting it set up permanantly - it's a rocket!

byte_fx

toby
10-23-2006, 09:04 PM
no.
space bar cycles through the xform controls. you don't Have to use the hot keys.
I was still talking about Modeler at that point.

You could try installing USBOverdrive-OSX, it lets you program any mouse. I have the depressed-middle-mouse button set to Option-click, so I can rotate around Layout or Modeler with one hand. You can also program the mouse with different commands for different applications.

byte_fx
10-25-2006, 03:55 PM
Thanks Toby !

byte_fx

cresshead
10-25-2006, 05:50 PM
just going to add that i think apple's mighty mouse is THE worst mouse i've ever had..and that includes the atari st mouse..the one that shipped with the atari..the apple mouse is a magnet for a waste paper bin...i just hate it!
...got one with the works mac mini i use....second day i demanded they order a proper usb mouse with buttons that work like buttons and a shape that actualy fits a hand...do apple have shares in making people get RSI??

dwburman
10-27-2006, 01:06 PM
no.
space bar cycles through the xform controls. you don't Have to use the hot keys.


wow. I've been using LW (mostly on the PC) since 5.6 and didn't know that. I think I may have discovered that at one point, but if I did, I forgot it.

I also didn't know about the scroll wheel doing things. I tried it and it doesn't seem to do anything on the MacPro I'm sitting in front of. Oh well. It's never been part of my workflow so I guess I won't miss it :)

dwburman
10-27-2006, 01:11 PM
just going to add that i think apple's mighty mouse is THE worst mouse i've ever had..and that includes the atari st mouse..the one that shipped with the atari..the apple mouse is a magnet for a waste paper bin...i just hate it!
...got one with the works mac mini i use....second day i demanded they order a proper usb mouse with buttons that work like buttons and a shape that actualy fits a hand...do apple have shares in making people get RSI??

At least they have more than one button.... and it's still better than the hockey puck that they shipped with the first imac.

toby
10-27-2006, 11:23 PM
At least they have more than one button.... and it's still better than the hockey puck that they shipped with the first imac.
AAAACK! Dude, we really didn't need to see that. Oh, the horror. It shipped with G3 desktops too.

eblu
10-30-2006, 08:53 AM
AAAACK! Dude, we really didn't need to see that. Oh, the horror. It shipped with G3 desktops too.

i still have a few of the hockey pucks. aside from nearly breaking my wrist, I liked em.

dwburman
10-30-2006, 09:06 AM
I especially liked when you'd take your hand off them and grab them at a different angle when you put your hand back on them. With a round mouse, it was more difficult to feel which way was up.


i still have a few of the hockey pucks. aside from nearly breaking my wrist, I liked em.

toby
10-30-2006, 11:53 PM
I especially liked when you'd take your hand off them and grab them at a different angle when you put your hand back on them. With a round mouse, it was more difficult to feel which way was up.
Exactly what I was going to say, except "impossible" to feel which way was up.

eblu
10-31-2006, 07:28 AM
i got used to "finding the tail". up was always the end where the cable came out, so I would grab it, and then feel for the cable. it was a unique hassle.

John the Geek
10-31-2006, 08:12 AM
Worse, the first revision "hocky-puck" had no dimple over the button to feel where the button was, whereas the DV iMac revision at least had a small dimple on the button to find it by touch. Still, the body wasn't long enough to really hold and the thing was constantly rotating sideways because of the cable and messing me up.

Apple's optical mice, on the opposite of that extreme, are impossible to teach my kids with because the whole **** mouse is a button. They can't move it without inadvertently clicking and dragging something. There is no good kids mouse that I can find.

eblu
10-31-2006, 12:17 PM
give em the wireless version, that way, the "up" direction will Also be a problem. ;)

btw: i use a logitech mx500 for Lightwave and a wacom 9x12 for Everything else*.
*plus this baby, thus negating painful single hand key commands:
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=2071&pcount=&Product_Id=157024