PDA

View Full Version : Has 3D World got it in for Lightwave?



kopperdrake
10-07-2006, 09:47 AM
I don't know - maybe it's just me - but I subscribe to this magazine and it's as though there's hardly ever much coverage of Lightwave for whatever reason. This month's issue has just landed on my desk and there's an article on the new Guardian movie - not ONE mention of Lightwave, even though Don Myers and Celshader have been gracious enough to post some of the details of the project on these forums, so we know it was used :(

It's not that I care about 3D World so much (in fact I'm not far off letting my subscription slide after the last year or so), just that the readers will see Realflow taking all the credit and nothing about how great 64bit Lightwave was in handling all the data pumped out by Realflow :(

Bah and humbug...

EyelandArts.com
10-07-2006, 10:29 AM
Its really not the magazines fault. They just print the PR garble thats thrown their way. Real flow is an amazing fluid simulation engine but companies now days use lots of software to get things done. We cant always expect clients to understand you are using software thats under $1k because they would be unable to understand where the cost is coming from. I really wish the PR machine would shift towards a more artist centric theme so instead of it being, look at our expensive software and shinny super computers, it should be look at the great team we have, they kick *** and they are hungry.

hrgiger
10-07-2006, 10:32 AM
I've always thought 3D world was garbage. It's overpriced and the tutorials that were actually useful (as in, you couldn't find the same stuff on the web for free) were few and far in between.
It's just too bad that we can't have a dedicated magazine for Lightwave(now that both Newtek Pro is gone and Keyframe has branched off to other applications). Perhaps Spinquad or Kurv should do just that.

Sekhar
10-07-2006, 11:05 AM
HDRI 3D covers LW quite a bit. I think they also have a no-nonsense approach to tuts vs. the fluffy/flashy stuff in 3D World.

mjcrawford
10-07-2006, 11:15 AM
I think that LW while being an excellent product, is largely ignored as a minor player in the 3d realm. Maya is commonly seen as what everyone is using, and for the lay people Maya is the only 3D app that they are likely to recognize by name. I tell people that I work in LW and they are generally confused. In fact, I recently did a job shadow for a small cable network that used a VT for editing, and Maya for 3D. I asked why they did not use the onboard Lightwave that comes with the Toaster. They did not even know that it was there! I created a quickie little logo for them and they were shocked! NT needs to promote its products better!

Bog
10-07-2006, 12:04 PM
3D World is basically Autodesk User these days. I've just about given up on it.

Then again, with Autodesk muzzling studios from mentioning the full toolset they use on their productions, it's gonna be the Maya Way or the High Way soon enough, unless something changes radically.

Which really does make me very, very angry.

Yog
10-07-2006, 12:51 PM
I have not read it in a while, but when it was first released 3D World was THE best thing to happen to Lightwave in the UK.
Up till that point I had not met another person who had even heard of Lightwave in the UK, Newtek's UK publicity being all but non existant. But then Ben Smith (writer for 3D World) began writing tutorials and articles featuring LW, and giving it an altogether higher profile. Do I take it Ben no longer works for 3D World ?

Ztreem
10-07-2006, 03:13 PM
Yog: He wrote the review of LW 9 in the latest issue of 3D World, so I think he still works for them.

I did subscribe years ago, but I stopped when I realized that the news in magazine wasn't news anymore when I had read the information on the net weeks before I got the magazine.

bryphi7
10-07-2006, 03:25 PM
He wrote the review of LW 9 in the latest issue of 3D World, so I think he still works for them.

I am in the US, and mine didn't come yet... How did LW9 do? what was the pros and cons?

kopperdrake
10-07-2006, 04:34 PM
I am in the US, and mine didn't come yet... How did LW9 do? what was the pros and cons?

"Version 9 is a solid release, but not one likely to tempt users of other applications".

Verdict:

Pros:
Faster rendering
Enhanced usability
Nodal textures

Cons:
Animation neglected
Still some stability issues

Range of Features: 7
Value for Money: 8
Overall: 7

Wasn't a bad review overall, just not as positive in tone as, say, the Maya review on the previous pages.

In fact, just noticed that our very own Colkai gets a letter printed in this months' mag (Issue 84 as oppoes to issue 83 the LW review is in) ranting about pretty much the same issue I'm having a go at. As you said Eyeland, it's probabaly just about what's easy to get, and Autodesk know all about advertising :( Look at the two lovely extra brochures given away with 3D World recently, Auto visualisation and Arch Viz, all Autodesk sponsored of course.

Nice one Colkai on the letter though ;)

bryphi7
10-07-2006, 05:03 PM
That really sucks. I was hoping that it would have done better, but it is exactly what I expected. Wonder how C4dV10 will do? If it does well, it puts the whole Autodesk theory out.

To be honest... from what you posted, I think its pretty accurate!

Yog
10-07-2006, 05:27 PM
"Version 9 is a solid release, but not one likely to tempt users of other applications".It seems a fair comment and verdict. I agree with most of the marks, but I would have probably given "value for money" a 9.

mjcrawford
10-07-2006, 05:32 PM
It seems a fair comment and verdict. I agree with most of the marks, but I would have probably given "value for money" a 9.

:agree:

how can you give it anything less than a 9 when you consider the price? makes no sence...

EyelandArts.com
10-07-2006, 10:25 PM
Shifting the thread a little...A magazine is just a business. We have to ask to ourselves just how these companies stay afloat. As Zstreem stated, we hardly get any new information from these sources any more. Nowdays we pick one of these up only to find some of the articles stating month old news.
It really doesnt make any sense. I still get these and used to think it would be something good to do while visiting the porcelain gods. Frankly it feels like as soon as I get one I look through it in minutes, find nothing interesting save for a few tid bits once in a while and never look at them again.

bryphi7
10-07-2006, 10:40 PM
A magazine is just a business
So is making 3d software.

Just a thought...

If the other companies are funding the mag? I would call that a smart business move, and it seems to be working for them. Maybe NT should come out of their pockets as well... If it would help their cause.

Oh, I also was wondering if it came with a demo of LW9?

kopperdrake
10-08-2006, 04:43 AM
No demo. But this month's mag (which sounds like you'll get in another month's time Bryphi7, does have 3 Kurv Studio videos :D , introducing the new nodal editor, and a set of pre-animated characters from axyz for Lightwave. Maybe they do listen after all - we'll have to see over the coming months :) TBH the main reason I get the mags these days is to just get a flavour of what's happening in the general 3D world - I know I can get it all from the net but this way I can sit with the wife and seem reasonably sociable ;)

lardbros
10-08-2006, 05:18 AM
Don't get me wrong... i agree with everyones comments. BUT to be quite honest, LW isn't the most up-to-date package out there (yet), and free software like Blender is doing more exciting things at the moment, so i guess that's where the magazine will focus. If Newtek come up with something truly incredible with these point upgrades in LW9 and then actually publicise it and tell the press/magazine people what they have done, then we'll see some articles about LW.

I sometimes feel that Newtek's marketing team just can't be arsed most of the time. LW9 has been slightly better than previous releases, but to me it seems that the guys working on the manuals/packaging/icons/this forum do absolutely everything themselves, rather than actually have a dedicated team to do the work.

The LW9 demo is taking a ridiculous amount of time to appear!! I mean, what the hey is going on there? Give the LW9 full version to a decent programmer and i reckon they could do it themselves in a week. (i know nothing about programming) :D

lardbros
10-08-2006, 05:48 AM
I'm pretty sure that NT are waiting on the next update, with improved rendering and modeler OpenGL (And possibly Mac universal binary), before releasing a demo.

That's a good point... and i sure hope you're right! :thumbsup:

Bliz
10-08-2006, 06:13 AM
I think the critisism of 3DWorld is a bit harsh. It does try and balance it's coverage of all the main 3D apps but it can only, report, review, comment on or provide tutorials on what it gets given every month.

I used to work with Gary Noden, the guy that does a lot of the Maya coverage and the one who has done the last two or three Maya reviews. And while I know Maya is his favourite package (the one he earns a living with), I also know he speaks his mind and won't over-glamourise [is that a word?] Maya if it doesn't warrant it. I don't have it in front of me but I actually remember him being very harsh on the Maya6 or 7 review, stating how most Maya users, including himself, felt it was more like a point release.

As for the recent automotive supplement. Well a nice inspirational render is a nice inspirational render no matter what package it's done in and there were some really nice car renders in there to look at and analyse.
At the end of the day Autodesk are a bigger company than Newtek, with a bigger marketing budget so they can afford to make these sort of supplements happen. When Ford or GM push an expensively produced glossy brochure through my mailbox I don't begrudge TVR or Marcos not doing the same because I know they can't afford to employ the same tactics and that they have to market themselves in other ways.

Dodgy
10-08-2006, 06:42 AM
I agree, while the exposure isn't what it used to be in 3d world, I felt both the LW and maya reviews were fair. The maya review said not much had been added for 8 so wasn't a necessary release, which i think is about right. LW is still featured with freebies for LW coming out this month on the disk Meanwhile there are quite a few other packages out there, including freebies, so the focus has drifted a bit from the main 4. There used to be complaints that blender and other freebies weren't featured enough, it seems they're trying to rectify that.

Yog
10-08-2006, 06:55 AM
As Zstreem stated, we hardly get any new information from these sources any more. Nowdays we pick one of these up only to find some of the articles stating month old news. Unfortunately this is THE problem with hardcopy media. By it's nature and the process to produce, it's always going to be at least a month behind internet news.


Shifting the thread a little...A magazine is just a business. We have to ask to ourselves just how these companies stay afloat. There are two main audiences these magazines have to cator for, the working professional, and the person looking to get into the industry.
For the working professional you are going to put more enphisis into the most widely used tools in that industry, and in the UK, where the magazine is produced, that really isn't Lightwave. From years of listening to our American counterparts it does seem as though in the US Lightwave has a decient foothold, but here in Europe it never has had that wide a user base (possibly due to the early Toasters not supporting PAL).
As to catering for the newbs or those with a passing interest, it payes the magazine to put out tutorials that people could complete using free or demo software, preferably something the magazine could put on their cover disc. Again, another example of why not having an electronically downloadable demo is hurting Newtek. And as for those that say Newtek are waiting for just the right momment to release the LW-9 demo, they were also waiting for just the right momment to release the LW-8 demo.

pooby
10-08-2006, 07:05 AM
And also.. From the perspective of a reader looking at all the software from an impartial point of view, LW9 doesn't really have any sexy features. Its just slowly getting stuff that the others have had for quite a while now.
Readers wouldn't be impressed that LW now has N-gons and Nodal shading - That sort of thing is only of real interest to LW users.

I'd imagine that Newtek don't want to cry wolf right now with their marketing.
If LW gets an enviable new animation system or does something innovative and brilliant then that'll give the magazine something of substance to talk about.

hrgiger
10-08-2006, 07:42 AM
I think the critisism of 3DWorld is a bit harsh. It does try and balance it's coverage of all the main 3D apps but it can only, report, review, comment on or provide tutorials on what it gets given every month.




Well, there used to be at least a couple things on Lightwave every month, including a tutorial in the magazine. I have a stack of them because I used to buy them. The last few times I've leafed through them at the bookstore, I couldn't find a thing. So it has changed and it's why I've stopped buying them.

pooby
10-08-2006, 08:53 AM
Unfortunately I think the magazine is reflecting what is going on in the industry.

I notice dwindling of posts on LW forums too.
CG talk's LW section is a shadow of what it was even just a year ago. Maya on the other hand has seen the opposite phenomenon. Flay.com doesn't feel like the central hub of activity it once was. It feels almost like a legacy site now.

The negative talk about LW hasn't helped the perception of LW but I think a lot of it is honest talk nonetheless and that shouldn't be censored.

There seems to be a school of thought that everyone 'has it in for lightwave'
Which is really silly. Opinions change depending on merit.. From an outsider's point of view, C4D seems to be a much more serious contender than it was a few years ago. This is due to partly to marketing, but mainly because they really have stuff to show off about and it gets noticed.
Newtek can do the same IF LW gets the stuff it needs.

inkpen3d
10-08-2006, 09:27 AM
I subscribed to 3D World ever since the first issue, but decided not to renew my subscription last year. The reasons: I was increasingly getting that “déjà vu” feeling – articles and tutorials I’d read back in earlier issues cropping up again in slightly different guises; interesting/useful content becoming increasingly scarce, especially any relating to LightWave.

After having received several issues and catching myself thinking, “Well, that was a complete waste of time/money.” I finally bit the bullet and let my subscription lapse. I now only occasionally buy the magazine direct from the newsagents if it looks like there’s any content that justifies the price tag. Of course, it may all just be the result of a natural progression - as I’ve climbed the learning curve I’ve “out-grown” the magazine and become jaded with regards to its content. Thing is though, I still feel as though I’m stumbling around on the lower slopes of that curve – thank goodness for all the online forums such as this one!

Coincidently, prior to spotting this series of posts, I’d just spent the last few days going through my stack of 66+ old issues of 3D World, which were collecting dust on my bookshelf, and cutting out any articles and tutorials that looked to be useful – I ended up with a set of stapled together pages that fit into a single A4 folder and a lot of free space on my bookshelf!

UnCommonGrafx
10-08-2006, 09:27 AM
I like 3D World; so much so I even got a subscription for it.
Do they have it out for LW? They don't have to. LW has been where it is for some time: behind. To be sure, it's a bummer not seeing one's beloved in the limelight. But if it were put in the limelight, it wouldn't be pretty.
Who has a vanilla LW setup that they use that causes no crashes? I sure don't because there are so many worthwhile plugins, free no less, that are 'essential' because such functionality is missing. Yet, this seems to lead to corrupt configs which lead to crashes.
The hub and it's associated crashes are ... frustrating, to say the least. Last night modeller crashed; started it back up with f12 and layout went away. Shortly thereafter layout was bye bye too. I'm vexxing, I suppose. And I suppose other apps have their vexxers as well...

Extrapolating as to what the future holds is no longer fun when the future can be seen in a program (as ugly as it is) like blender. Next generation tools can be seen all around us. That's why a mag like 3D World isn't talking about LW as much: it's very much 'before' gen, at the moment. I have faith that NewTek will make it into NextGen but will it be soon enough? And for many, that answer, after five or six years, is becoming no, more and more.


I am a frustrated NewTek customer.

JamesCurtis
10-08-2006, 09:34 AM
I was looking through the Architectural Visualisatiuon supplement with 3D World [issue 79] awhile ago and did notice on page 38 Lightwave is mentioned as being used for texturing and rendering the Cityscape image. Its in the note with the image. So not everything is Autodesk's apps.

Just thought I'd point that out!

kopperdrake
10-08-2006, 03:50 PM
You're right, wonder how that slipped in ;) I'm not arguing with anyone about images being stimulating whichever package they've been done in - I totally agree. It was more the Autodesk logo and name slapped around more than I care to see, but then that's probably just a sign of the times perhaps.

Anyway, some good has come from this thread, HDRI 3D have just received my subscription for two years' worth of order, plus a few back issues :)

SplineGod
10-08-2006, 11:13 PM
I agree Robert, I think 3D World is a great 3D magazine. IMO far more professional looking then any of the others. If people want to see more coverage I suggest emailing them or getting onto their forums. They do have a LW section.

Ive always hated the name change from Keyframe to HDRI. That never made sense to me since HDRI is a image format and nothing more to do with 3D then Jpeg, TIF or PNG. Its always seemed a bit more on the fluff side then 3D World.

I think the LW forum on CGTalk is down because CGTalk has always been unfriendly to LW users. Many LW users I know have ceased going their because they get tired of being slammed for using or god forbid, defending the use of LW in a LW forum. I see participation up on other more LW friendly forums.

colkai
10-09-2006, 03:05 AM
I don't know - maybe it's just me - but I subscribe to this magazine and it's as though there's hardly ever much coverage of Lightwave for whatever reason. This month's issue has just landed on my desk and there's an article on the new Guardian movie - not ONE mention of Lightwave

Note however the editors response to my comments about it being Autodesk centric, then note the amount of Maya / max related ads and articles and the pathetic "coverage" of LW in the issue.

Truth is, regardless of what they say about LW, Autodesk is dominating the market and are paying their wages via advertising, so naturally they are going to be more "friendly" about Autodesk products and exposure.

I just wish my subs had been up for renewal later in the year, I know for sure, they are not going to be renewed next year.


I sometimes feel that Newtek's marketing team just can't be arsed most of the time. LW9 has been slightly better than previous releases, but to me it seems that the guys working on the manuals/packaging/icons/this forum do absolutely everything themselves, rather than actually have a dedicated team to do the work.

Alas, I have to agree, there seems to be a lack of "getting it out there", then again, one does have to factor into it that Autodesk are a very very rich company with lots of employees, Newtek are not in the same ball park when it comes to available resources. Be that in terms of budgets or staff levels.


Many LW users I know have ceased going their because they get tired of being slammed for using or god forbid, defending the use of LW in a LW forum.

Yup, that is the case with many LW folks I know, CGT it the only forum where folks would rather lambast LW than actually offer useful help. These attacks are ususally labelled as being "realisitic" and even "professional" but really do not help the person seeking assistance.

Lw has a heck of a hill to climb and I agree with many comments here, they need to get this 100% right in terms of features and consolidation, a fact, I am quite sure, they are very clearly aware of.

Yog
10-09-2006, 03:45 AM
I think the LW forum on CGTalk is down because CGTalk has always been unfriendly to LW users. Many LW users I know have ceased going their because they get tired of being slammed for using or god forbid, defending the use of LW in a LW forum. I see participation up on other more LW friendly forums.Whilst no one can deny that Lightwave and CG-Talk have had there problems, and it has been very much a two way problem, it still doesn't explain why Lightwave users aren't present on other general 3D forums.
3dbuzz.com, your lucky if you get more than half a dozen LW posts a month there, - 3d-palace.com, they used to have their own LW section, but now they have had to roll it in with miscilanious programs as there was so little interest (the last LW post was last Decemeber, and that was me), - CGarchitect.com, they still have their LW section but it only just ticks over (one new thread and three replies in the last month), - Highend3d.com, covers all the major apps, except LW because of lack of interest.
In fact, the only place you will see large numbers of LW users are in Lightwave specific forums such as here, SpinQuad, and formally Splinecage before it closed.

Is it just that Lightwave users just don't mix with others ?

kopperdrake
10-09-2006, 04:54 AM
Is it just that Lightwave users just don't mix with others ?

I like to think of it as the Lightwave guys are too busy working to post :thumbsup:

colkai
10-09-2006, 04:55 AM
In fact, the only place you will see large numbers of LW users are in Lightwave specific forums such as here, SpinQuad, and formally Splinecage before it closed.

Is it just that Lightwave users just don't mix with others ?

I dunno, I don't think it's that per se, just I personally have found (and it IS getting worse), that when a legit question to be solved is asked, SQ and here are the few places people get right to the point. On other forums, I've seen the answer too many times to be "you should really buy XSI/MAYA as it does that soo much better".
Hello? I wanted to know how to do something with my current toolset, that's like saying, I want a good paintwork cleaner for my car, "oh no, you should buy a Porsche, their paintwork is much better and won't dull so quickly". Yeah, sooo much help. ;)

So ahem, yeah, maybe we don't play well with others. :p

At the end of the day, a lot of forums seem to go by the wayside, Motionbuilder is a prime example, most of the info is seriously old in the likes of CGTalk and 3DBuzz on that as people seem to drift off it. As to Autodesk / Alias forums on it, oh how I long for the heady days of the old Kaydara forums.

SQ and here are "invested" in the software and so it's only natural people start to reside here for their answers I guess.

SplineGod
10-09-2006, 05:12 AM
The bottom line is that people purchase the software and want to go to forums that are friendly and helptul so that they CAN ask for help without having to worry about the very thing Colkai just mentioned.

Its the same here sometimes People ask questions on character animation in LW and get the same response from the same group, its like a broken record. We are all very aware (thanks to these people) about LWs shortcomings compared to some other apps. Newtek has stated their intent to fix or update things. That leaves three choices:
1. Dont do character work in LW
2. Buy something else
3. Do what you can in LW until its updated.

Im for #3. I come to forums to help when I can and to get help. The last thing I want to CONSTANTLY hear is the same people whining about the same problems and being downright mean about it.

I know a lot of people who dont come to forums at all and I Know a lot who come to forums but dont post because of the vocal negative people. Then I know those who have left places like CGTalk because it is downright nasty.

I think between the yahoo list, Lwg3D, Spinquad, CGfocus, Newteks forums, IRC channels etc that theres plenty of LW friendlier places to hang out at. :)

Yog
10-09-2006, 06:01 AM
I like to think of it as the Lightwave guys are too busy working to post :thumbsup:
Good come back. :thumbsup:

But the question still remains “Why ?”
Why are LW users so reclusive and prefer to their own cubby holes ? After all, this does no favours to Newtek, who would love a greater presence in the wider 3D community, as this would encourage new sales. If somebody wanted to get into 3D and decided to do their homework by looking into the general 3D sites I listed, they would come away with the distinct impression that LW was hardly used by anyone.

OK, there is some justification over at CG-Talk, but again, “Why ?”
I use a number of different 3D programs, and so I visit a number of 3D program forums daily, but hardly ever do I come across the “Them and Us”, or the “You would be better off using different software”, like I constantly do when it comes to Lightwave at CG-Talk. “Why ?”
OK , there are always grumbles about the software people own on those different forums, but as the Admiral once said, the time to worry about mutiny is when the grumbling stops.

Perhaps an honest answer to those “Why’s” would help Newtek gain a higher profile in the wider 3D community.

Yog
10-09-2006, 06:10 AM
An example of what I'm talking about, and at least part of the reason the LW'ers keep to themselves, can be found in the title of this thread.

The auther wants to know why Lightwave isn't featured as much as they would wish in 3D World. Is it merely a reflection of the market share in the UK ? Is it a more attractive aliance with a competitor ? Is it a lack of demo software from Newtek ?
No, it is "Them and Us", "Has 3D World got it in for Lightwave ?"

Darth Mole
10-09-2006, 06:44 AM
I've wondered about this topic also. I own C4D, although LW is still my primary app. The C4D forum on CGT is absolutely buzzing - multiple posts every day. Sometimes the first post that day has scrolled off the bottom by the end of play! And generally it's well moderated and users are helpful.

I come here and I get lots of moaning and whingeing and people like that arsewit oDDity just pi55ing on everyone's parade. No wonder it's a like a ghost town some days... What is it with LW users that makes them different I wonder?

Anyway, I have a serious question for you all. How many people here would be willing to pay for a downloadable magazine dedicated to LightWave - like 3D Attack for C4D

http://www.3dattack.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=60&f=44

?

kopperdrake
10-09-2006, 07:03 AM
Anyway, I have a serious question for you all. How many people here would be willing to pay for a downloadable magazine dedicated to LightWave - like 3D Attack for C4D

http://www.3dattack.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=60&f=44

?

Yes I would :)

Darth Mole
10-09-2006, 08:43 AM
Okay, well that's one...

iainbyoung
10-09-2006, 10:08 AM
Two :)

Yog
10-09-2006, 10:28 AM
It's all about ideas, mostly. A lot of people have the idea that LightWave is inferior to everything, they haven't tried it themselves, but the cool kid next door says that LightWave sucks, so that must be true. And we all know humans like to feel superior, so what better way to feel on top than bash LightWave, afterall the cool kid next door said it sucks.Whilst it might it might be attractive to believe Lightwave is not more popular because the rest of the world has got an unfounded supiriority complex in regards Lightwave, perpatrated by people who have never used it, as it would remove resposibility from Newtek and it's user base, I really don't believe the argument has merit.

If you look at the archives of 3D Buzz, 3D Palace or CG Architect, or any of the lesser forums I visit like Maxwell Renderer, you will be severly hard pressed to find a desenting word against Lightwave.
Where most negative comments are found, (CG-Talk and to a lesser extent here and Spinquad), you will find the vast majority of the time the negative comments are being made by former or at least transitional LW users. Again it is very rare for someone who has never used LW to be critical of it. It does occassionally happen, but it is very rare.

So please, stop with "The rest of the world hates us"., it's not smart, it's not clever, and only serves to anoy the rest of the world ;)

Dexter2999
10-09-2006, 10:40 AM
I've always thought 3D world was garbage. It's overpriced and the tutorials that were actually useful (as in, you couldn't find the same stuff on the web for free) were few and far in between.
It's just too bad that we can't have a dedicated magazine for Lightwave(now that both Newtek Pro is gone and Keyframe has branched off to other applications). Perhaps Spinquad or Kurv should do just that.

Well, in my opinon, Spinquad and CGFocus pretty much do this. These guys are pretty good about sections with Whats new in the industry, interviews, and such. They let people showcase their work and get help. More actual tutorials would be nice.

I mean it could work nicely if they set up a two tier membership. Free lets your brows like currently. A paid membership lets you view monthly tutorials from the KURV training DVD's....of course there would need to be a fee paid to the authors of the material and they would need to agree to this. A version where each lesson is paid by the click like iTunes could work as well.

I really like the content over at Spinquad, I think CGFocus has a sleeker layout more like a magazine. I also would like to see a change in galleries. Instead of clicking on an entry in a forum, a real gallery page where if you click the picture you go to the discussion of it. They do this with featured works and are constantly updating them, but I think a full page of thumbnails would be easier to browse and give it a more magazine feel.::EDIT:: Basicaly a marriage of CGFocus gallery and Spinquad discussion of works::

Back issues would always be online. What I am getting at is that there is no real need for paper and ink magazine to take the toilet. I do think an digital "magazine" of a website is perfect for artists of a digital medium.

Again this is just my opinion.

SplineGod
10-12-2006, 04:30 PM
I also dont think 3D World has it in for LW. They constantly want to include LW content on their CD. KURV and I have 1.5 hrs of Nodal videos in the latest issue:)

T-Light
10-12-2006, 08:28 PM
Splinegod -

KURV and I have 1.5 hrs of Nodal videos in the latest issue
Cheers Larry, that's a 25 mile round trip to the only newsagent I know that stocks it :D, mind you, that's one trip I won't mind making :thumbsup:

SplineGod
10-12-2006, 08:29 PM
Cool, thanks! :)

DogBoy
10-13-2006, 02:49 AM
I also dont think 3D World has it in for LW.

maybe so, but they constantly don't mention LW. The Guardian gets an article and they only mention realflow. They do mention a lot of extra stuff was done with particles and displacements, but they don't say what was used.

I know it was LW. You know it was LW. Most people wouldn't. As a rule, if 3D-World don't mention an app, I tend to think LW maybe involved.

The same goes for CGSociety or CGChannel BTW. When CodeHunters got an article on CGSociety, there was a big hole in the article when it came to what was used to make it. It was glaring. At least with 3D-World when they do it, I don't think it's malice. the other two are just being petty.

Stooch
10-13-2006, 05:15 AM
So is making 3d software.

Just a thought...

If the other companies are funding the mag? I would call that a smart business move, and it seems to be working for them. Maybe NT should come out of their pockets as well... If it would help their cause.

Oh, I also was wondering if it came with a demo of LW9?

LOL, hey - didnt we establish already that newteks pockets are nowhere near the girth and depth of autodesk! Especially when lightwaves features for the price is rated a 9 ;)

bobakabob
10-13-2006, 10:01 AM
To be fair on 3D World, I think they do a pretty good job considering the market is so niche yet diverse. There are so many 3D apps out there they have a difficult task giving fair coverage, especially considering the financial pressures they must have pleasing their Autocrat advertisers. I agree though it would be good to see the return of in depth Lightwave related features and generic modeling / rendering / lighting tutorials. e.g good and bad practice in human figure design.

bryphi7
10-13-2006, 09:05 PM
Especially when lightwaves features for the price is rated a 9
You mean 8...
I was being sarcastic anyway.:)

Ok, I just got my issue 83, and I have to say there was a lot of LW in the mag. I don't think they have it in for LW at all. Maya8 scored less then LW.

I didn't really like the little reference about Modo at the end of the LW review, but all in all it was accurate...

borkus
10-13-2006, 10:45 PM
and plus, the mag can be used for learing in an abstract way. have found many tutorials in other "apps" to be useful in lightwave. just need to find the workarounds. AND NICE TO SEE LIGHTWAVE IN THIS MONTH'S ISSUE!!!!!!!

jream
10-14-2006, 02:08 AM
When I chose to get into 3D i looked at what was industry popular. Thats why I wanted to start with VUE Infinite, but I never tried it so I went with 3dsmax 7 and its pretty good but I really wanted to use Maya because its very popular, except its way too expensive for me. I decided to go with Lightwave now after a little bit of understanding 3D, not a whole lot, but I love the program. I think if there was more info on where LW is used on major projects it would jolt sales a lot.

It seems like Rhino3D is dying and hasn't gone that far, I could be wrong though. It is a pure NURBS editor, but I dont want to see LW go down that long trail of death.

Ztreem
10-14-2006, 02:30 AM
Rhino is absolutly not dead or dying, but it's in another 3D area then LW. NURBS programs is used and will be used mostly be designers, while LW and other 3D animation apps will be mostly used for effect, animation and visualization. Then it's always some people using Rhino for character modeling and effect work and some do their design work in LW( Like me somtimes :)).

dhmoritz
10-19-2006, 05:05 AM
All very interesting... but...

1) Nobody seems to know how many people use LW as their primary 3D software as opposed to other packages. If this statistic were published, and if it showed a large enough LW community, maybe 3D World would increase its coverage.

2) The posters here should be letting 3D World know about their dissatisfaction.

3) Newtek itself compounds the problem. I found a thread a few days ago about the inability to launch LW 9 modeler - lots of hypotheses about the reasons for it, most settling in on the dongle. Not a single post by Newtek about the problem or when it might be solved. I cannot find a way to e-mail Newtek with my personal dissatisfaction with how LW9 is now no longer operational on my system. It's a good thing I don't earn a living using LW9, or I'd be off to another product by now.

colkai
10-19-2006, 05:30 AM
The posters here should be letting 3D World know about their dissatisfaction.

I think it's fair to say, many of us have been very vocal, bth in the magazine and on the forums. The kick-back is always the same, LW is given the same treatment it always has and there is no Autodesk bias.

Though that has now shifted to "Autodesk now own most 3D so we can't help but give more coverage" sorta perspective.

Granted, we don't know how much LW stuff is submitted for the gallery in the magazine. Overall though, the magazine for me has gone downhill over the last 4 or 5 months and the articles are highly selective about what htey print.

Case in point, the 'Guardian' article giving no mention at all of LW and also one article a while back which showed even a picture of LW running on the FX guys system but then mentioned the software used was Maya, even though it was all LW.

SplineGod
10-19-2006, 06:14 AM
Who did the article? Has anyone tried emailing the author/magazine or posting on their forums and asking?

digital verve
10-19-2006, 07:10 AM
Case in point, the 'Guardian' article giving no mention at all of LW and also one article a while back which showed even a picture of LW running on the FX guys system but then mentioned the software used was Maya, even though it was all LW.

Ignorant snobbery eliteism stuff like this really annoys me. Correct credit should be given whatever/whoever it is. When I hear/read LW users saying they used Maya when it was LW bugs me too. Don't they have confidence in their work or abilities to sell themselves?

Darth Mole
10-19-2006, 08:52 AM
Well if anyone has a brilliant idea how to include every single 3D app in use today and not hack anyone else off, do let me know and I'll pass it on to the very, very hard-working guys on the mag.

SP00
10-19-2006, 11:36 AM
Ignorant snobbery eliteism stuff like this really annoys me. Correct credit should be given whatever/whoever it is. When I hear/read LW users saying they used Maya when it was LW bugs me too. Don't they have confidence in their work or abilities to sell themselves?

I agree, what is up with people being afraid to mention LW in these publication?

Bog
10-20-2006, 09:51 AM
Darth,

I've got not idea how much work someone has to do to get a magazine the complexity of 3D world out the door each month. I imagine it's turn my hair white if I did. I'm not saying that they're lazy of all things - it does seem, though, that LW gets mentioned a disproportionately small amount compared to the stuff done in the - the Guardian article as a case in point is exactly the kind of thing that makes me taste powdered tooth enamel. Why would they neglect to mention that the work was done in LW? It makes no sense - none at all.

SplineGod
10-20-2006, 09:57 AM
I wonder who they talked to. It could be that whoever they interviewed failed to mention LW. Stranger things have happened. :)

wacom
10-20-2006, 11:31 AM
I have yet to find a magazine with any REAL info that can't be found on the web, or done better by a discussion forum.

I'd save your money and just by tutorial CDs and hang on the forums.

If anyone knows of a 3D "journal" that is somewhere between scholarly 3D and true professional topics, I'd be happy to know. Everything else I've looked at is just 3D pornography...I'd rather pay for movies, games, software, and tutorials to support the 3D community...

How many worthless zbrush, Final Gather, and Vray mastibitory magazine demos have we seen? Oh well I guess you've gotta move them mags like 1920's rags.

Just my 2 cents!

glebe digital
10-20-2006, 01:15 PM
HDRI3d & CineFX are both pretty good IMHO........the last time I read 3dworld it seemed far too geared towards the hobbyist and I'm also not prepared to pay for endless crapware reviews and be bombarded by advertising........

Who really cares about whether LW gets highlighted in interviews or not? We all know it's on most studio's desktops, even if XSI or Maya get the mention........what goes around comes around.

CMT
10-20-2006, 01:48 PM
I have yet to find a magazine with any REAL info that can't be found on the web, or done better by a discussion forum.

For the most part I agree. I've rarely found a tut or subject that hasn't been discussed in more detail on the internet.

I don't think NT is going anywhere because it is still widely being used. Not just by animation studios, but also illustrators like myself who want something easy to learn and without all the extra menus to wade through of tools I'll never use.

badllarma
10-20-2006, 03:59 PM
Well if anyone has a brilliant idea how to include every single 3D app in use today and not hack anyone else off, do let me know and I'll pass it on to the very, very hard-working guys on the mag.

I'm sorry Darth Mole but the 'Guardian' article was a joke (I thought it was an advertisment for Realflow actually) I'd only just read a very simlar article on it and it had Lightwave this Lightwave that all the way through then I read that in 3D World and I thought "Am I reading about the same effects???" it totally avoided any reference to Lightwave which was by all account miss information.

It seems Autodesk is paying the big bucks to 3D World these days for ad space and cleaning up within the articles in the mag as well.

The whole mag as been getting weaker by the month for a long time and I'm uncirtain wether to carry on my subscription after nearly 4 years as others have said the same material is being covered over and over again.
I remmber when it used to cover film effects on a monthly bases not quiet to Cinefex level but good enogh to jump in and out of for a quick fix. Or games or any number of articles that were much more in depth (I'm talking 3-5) page articles. Open season this month well yes it's a a few pages but not quiet there, maybe it's the writers they have now, but in the past the articles seem to have more depth to them.

I'm not Lightwave bias it's just the mag has no longer the excellent articles it used to cover. I've resently unsubscrided to HDRI as well as that was pretty poor by all accounts. IMO

digital verve
10-21-2006, 03:01 AM
Since it was launched I used to buy 3D World nearly every month, but haven't now in 8 months or more. I now just flick thru it in WH Smith just to see if the content makes me want to buy the mag. It doesn't.

tim123
10-24-2006, 08:34 AM
Hello.

First post here. I would love to see more talk about LW. And I hope :newtek: is coming with some nice new tools that it is stable and make LW stable (CA, modeler, dyn, render).:thumbsup:

And why not let 3dworld know what we think.

If it's demand for it they may give use more.

http://forum.3dworldmag.com/viewtopic.php?p=103276#103276

Tim:)

tim123
10-24-2006, 08:42 AM
Is it not any edit option here? Ok, I just wanted to say sorry if this have been said before in the thread, I have only seen over it quick :newhere:

bobakabob
10-26-2006, 06:49 AM
Hello.

First post here. I would love to see more talk about LW. And I hope :newtek: is coming with some nice new tools that it is stable and make LW stable (CA, modeler, dyn, render).:thumbsup:

And why not let 3dworld know what we think.

If it's demand for it they may give use more.

http://forum.3dworldmag.com/viewtopic.php?p=103276#103276

Tim:)

Agreed - the 3D World Lightwave Forum needs you!

jeric_synergy
10-26-2006, 01:40 PM
Its really not the magazines fault. They just print the PR garble thats thrown their way.
That's exactly what MAKES it their fault.:thumbsdow

Stooch
10-27-2006, 01:25 PM
every business needs to make money :|

zardoz
11-07-2006, 03:10 AM
I also noticed the article about "the guardian"...2 pages and no mention to lightwave...hmmm...if it was rendered with 3dmax or maya would it be like that too?

Bytehawk
11-14-2006, 07:41 AM
from cgchannel :

DOMESTOS "MELTING"
Mon, 13 Nov 2006
The first in a germ-infested three-spot campaign based on designs by illustrator and comic book artist Richard Dolan, this commercial marks Passion Pictures' switch to XSI from LightWave.

:(

Dodgy
11-14-2006, 08:44 AM
I also noticed the article about "the guardian"...2 pages and no mention to lightwave...hmmm...if it was rendered with 3dmax or maya would it be like that too?


I noticed that too. Didn't one of the artists come on here and say they only used realflow on some of the shots while morphs etc were used as well?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=442730

I thought everyone was being a bit harsh on 3d world till they didn't mention LW once in that article....

phil lawson
11-14-2006, 09:22 AM
from cgchannel :

DOMESTOS "MELTING"
Mon, 13 Nov 2006
The first in a germ-infested three-spot campaign based on designs by illustrator and comic book artist Richard Dolan, this commercial marks Passion Pictures' switch to XSI from LightWave.

:(

Though to be fair - that "news" happened two years ago. :D

Bytehawk
11-14-2006, 09:49 AM
from reading that blurb it "appears" asif they dumped their LW licences completely, there have been reports that they used XSI alongside LW on several occasions.

SplineGod
11-14-2006, 01:39 PM
LW is still used at the studio and was heavily used on the guardian.
Heres a good article:
http://www.vfxtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6983

archiea
11-15-2006, 03:34 AM
Unfortunately I think the magazine is reflecting what is going on in the industry.

I notice dwindling of posts on LW forums too.
CG talk's LW section is a shadow of what it was even just a year ago. Maya on the other hand has seen the opposite phenomenon. Flay.com doesn't feel like the central hub of activity it once was. It feels almost like a legacy site now.

The negative talk about LW hasn't helped the perception of LW but I think a lot of it is honest talk nonetheless and that shouldn't be censored.

There seems to be a school of thought that everyone 'has it in for lightwave'
Which is really silly. Opinions change depending on merit.. From an outsider's point of view, C4D seems to be a much more serious contender than it was a few years ago. This is due to partly to marketing, but mainly because they really have stuff to show off about and it gets noticed.
Newtek can do the same IF LW gets the stuff it needs.

Its almost ironic.. I see less negativity for LW these days than I did at its height, like 5.6 and 6.0. I think much of it has to do with the fact that LW was more competative then, and kind of exposed the overpriced nature of the marketplace at the time.

Then that changed. Especially with Maya. With the lux debacle and stagnant LW development, the rest of the industry continued to evolve. Maya came into its maturity as an app, having been born of Alias, and became the deserved foundation for many studios. Meanwhile the growth of 3D increased near geometricaly. I believe that many 'Wavers kinda grew out of LW as 3D became more mainstream, ironically a market that NT had pioneered: smart tools for the mainstream artist.

Worth mentioning was 9/11. I swear, it was like the meteor that killed the Dinosaurs regarding our industry, specifically the LW houeses. Our LW industry, much like the cretaceous period of the Dinos, had mature houses like netter digital, foundation, station X, etc operating at a critical mass. IMHO their artisty and ambition exceeded their business sense in an industry that was cutthroat, unforgiving and dare I say near shadenfreuden. When the work disappeared for 6 months to a year, many found themselves at the tail end of an underbid show, with no capital to sustain the sudden dry period. The went down like dominos.

Some shops did a business reboot, others formed from the ashes of other shops. That was around the time that maya was priced near around what LW cost, if not less. That, coupled with the then Alias' strong market penetration efforts (uh, Demo disks), you suddenly had maya jobs openings and unemployed LW artist. Feature animated 3D films really take off after Shrek 2, and the rest is history.

I know a lot of folks working in Maya and houdini today were former LW artist and they have fond memories. Some still use LW for their personal projects and/or freelance gigs. However, whats paying the main bills are their studio gigs, usually with Maya or something proprietary.

There is no conspiracy, no plan to "get" LW. factors both internal and external to LW contributed to a Newtek-esque Paradigm shift... but in 3D market in general as 3D became in great demand both in games and film. Animation companies like Dreamworks and Disney switched to 3D creating a huge market for 3D artist... a market that continues to grow and perhaps will, too, hit a critical mass. IMHO that will come, in part, from outsourcing. Almost every company I know has some sort of toe or like appendage in this trend. Just like any industry, animation will globalize like our tech jobs and auto industry (talking for the 'States here).

Perhaps the pendulum will swing back into LW arena as the sophistication of smaller animation markets rise and the demand for character animation and "acting" will broaden and deepen in markets where it were deemed too expensive. Perhaps LW 10 or 11 will coincide with such a change and fulfill that market specifically. Perhaps the studios will tire of taking 150-250 million gambles with farting animals movies twice a year and scale back the cost.

point being, this is far from a conspiracy... folks are just to busy to have the ap wars that were popular 10 years ago... most folks are using multiple apps.
The eggs are spread across many baskets, hence the lesser fervor over app choices. However, what has happened is that high end has become VERY highend. 15 years ago, doing 3D was complex even to do something simple. LW took that pholosphy and shattered it. Now were are doing some really complex stuff with the even more complex 3D. NT appears content with having LW sit in a broad arena rather than a special purpose high end arena. Again.. no conspiracies.. its just the market.. and thank God NT has a market to keep itself around.

I hate to say it, though, but the community of LW kinda plateaued to a user base that is content with the status quo. Any voice of dissent is meant with a lot of friction and seemingly a bit of a complex & stubborness. It seems that many of the innovative, who were first attracted to LW innovative approach to 3D at the time, have simply moved on to the next thing. The LW 9 beta period brought some of that excitement back. However, compared to the rest of the marketplace, there is just so much going on now. its hard to just "stick around". You can't argue with the truth in the numbers, its unequivocal, just look around at what is being produced everyday in 3D.
...and stop doing this ---->:bangwall:

starbase1
11-15-2006, 04:22 AM
I'm really unsure about all of this.

I'm an amateur so I don't have the same kind of pressures as the pros, and I am very unlikely to switch, mainly because of the time investment required for learning a new package. So I'm likely to be with LW for a long time.

My view of 9.0... Well, a lot of moves in the right direction, the feel of using it gets better all the time, and new positions for stuff are much more logical. That's not easy to pull of when you change an interface. I saw nothing significant in the way of faster rendering though, maybe thats part of the type of thing I render.

I absolutely love normal maps - they let me make planets that I feel are truly photorealistic for the first time. The nodal system is similarly a huge step forward, though I am still getting used to the new way of thinking.

I am not on the 9.2 beta yet, so I guess I can talk about it, albeit from a position of ignorance! I am excited at the implications of jumping a point, and Newtek have delivered a lot of good new stuff in point releases before, so here's hoping the 9.x features will add a lot.

I also think that documentation has improved massively over the past few releases. It was absolutely dire back when I started with v5.6, now it's pretty good.

I am begining to become aware of gaps and limits though. I'm running into image map size limits all the time. (I know, buy infinimap). The polygon counts LW can handle seem a bit low these days, and it's useless for landscapes - guess I'll have to play some more with my Vue 5 Infinite. I'm rather more excited by what Terragen 2.0 will offer, more so than the LW point releases. Though I would love to be proved wrong.

I have always found modelling very difficult, and I am beginning to wonder if the LW toolset is partly to blame. I certainly notice users here who are using other modelling products and getting great results.

I find some of the older plugin type things that got bundled at low versions and stuck there very frustrating. I'm thinking of things like the very low particle limit, the truly dreadful skytracer, sas lite.

And I have said it many times before here, but I really think that the simplest thing that could be done to help new users get a flying start, (and established users exploring new feastures), would be a seriously major effort to get those preset shelves shocked with tons and tons of samples to play with. Particularly for nodal surfaces.

Nick

CAClark
11-15-2006, 04:24 AM
I don't know - maybe it's just me - but I subscribe to this magazine and it's as though there's hardly ever much coverage of Lightwave for whatever reason. This month's issue has just landed on my desk and there's an article on the new Guardian movie - not ONE mention of Lightwave, even though Don Myers and Celshader have been gracious enough to post some of the details of the project on these forums, so we know it was used :(

It's not that I care about 3D World so much (in fact I'm not far off letting my subscription slide after the last year or so), just that the readers will see Realflow taking all the credit and nothing about how great 64bit Lightwave was in handling all the data pumped out by Realflow :(

Bah and humbug...

I think the harsh reality is that as things stand, Lightwave is just a much smaller player than Maya/Max/XSI. The LW9.x cycle may change that. It may not.

Cheers!

CAClark
11-15-2006, 04:28 AM
I have always found modelling very difficult, and I am beginning to wonder if the LW tool set is partly to blame. I certainly notice users here who are using other modelling products and getting great results.

For all my criticism of LW, I do believe that it's modelling tool set is still right up there. I think anyone who feels held back by LW's modelling ability would be rudely awakened by using other packages. Not because they are bad, more that LW is really rather good in that respect. The OpenGL improvements in 9.2 are excellent by and large, but i can't talk about that here.

Cheers!

Dodgy
11-15-2006, 05:08 AM
I agree, having been limited to maya at work, it's modelling is a complete nightmare....

starbase1
11-15-2006, 05:38 AM
For all my criticism of LW, I do believe that it's modelling tool set is still right up there. I think anyone who feels held back by LW's modelling ability would be rudely awakened by using other packages. Not because they are bad, more that LW is really rather good in that respect. The OpenGL improvements in 9.2 are excellent by and large, but i can't talk about that here.

Cheers!
OK, I have not used others, so I am not the best judge. I still find it tricky though! :D

I was thinking of what I had seen with others using Silo or Modo though, not integrated packages.

Nick

Titus
11-15-2006, 09:19 AM
It's interesting that you complain how LW/NewTek doesn't get attention from the printed/web media, I think the other way around is also true.

I started a website (http://www.deathfall.com) with some of friends a few years ago, now I'm in a hiatus. We did this site with no monetary interest at all, in my case I was interested to find a community, at that time in my country didn't exist anything similar to a 3D related community. From the group of adminstrators I was the only one interested to talk about "the rest of the apps" because I'm a LW user since 1997 and a strong beleiver of the open source movement. In 5 years we never received a press release, or even a link to an interesting news related to LW from NewTek. It seems only the big fellas get this kind of attention, however we recieve constant information from Autodesk, Softimage or even the Blender people.

Dave Jerrard
11-16-2006, 12:31 PM
Whilst no one can deny that Lightwave and CG-Talk have had there problems, and it has been very much a two way problem, it still doesn't explain why Lightwave users aren't present on other general 3D forums.Most that I know don't have time, or the interest, to spent on forums. I personally know a lot of LightWave users, and the number that I've seen online in forums I could count on my fingers.




3dbuzz.com, your lucky if you get more than half a dozen LW posts a month there,Hmm. I never heard of it before.


3d-palace.com, they used to have their own LW section, but now they have had to roll it in with miscilanious programs as there was so little interest Another new one to me.


CGarchitect.com, they still have their LW section but it only just ticks over (one new thread and three replies in the last month)And another new one to me. ****, I barely have time to keep up with this forum and Spinquad. How would I get anything done if I was surfing all of these?



Highend3d.com, covers all the major apps, except LW because of lack of interest.Now that one, I have heard of, and the snobbery in the name alone turns me off from ever visiting it.



In fact, the only place you will see large numbers of LW users are in Lightwave specific forums such as here, SpinQuad, and formally Splinecage before it closed.Makes sense. I'll go to where there's stuff going on about the software I'm using. You won't see me hanging out on the Maya forums. I don't use that.



Is it just that Lightwave users just don't mix with others ?They mix. I know many that use other packages as well. Most just don't have time for forums. Maybe that's it... The other apps are so slow people have time for websurfing, while LW's so fast, people can't get a break? ;)

He Who Was Just Kidding On That Last Part.

Scazzino
11-16-2006, 12:39 PM
Most just don't have time for forums. Maybe that's it... The other apps are so slow people have time for websurfing, while LW's so fast, people can't get a break? ;)

He Who Was Just Kidding On That Last Part.

Good one Dave! :D

I see a new slogan brewing...

LightWave: It's so fast you won't have time to waste surfing. :hey:

kopperdrake
11-16-2006, 12:57 PM
Hehe - makes me remember the good old days when you had time to make a coffee whilst a test render did...the golden days ;)

Mind you...I sleep a lot better these days and my hands don't shake so uncontrollably.

starbase1
11-16-2006, 02:55 PM
I hang around in LWG3D, it has a hard core of meticulous multimillion polygon SF megaship fans.

But how many forums do we NEED?!?!?!

I need to come to this one to here what the Newtek guys have to say, and that keeps me pretty busy.

Iain
11-16-2006, 04:23 PM
It's a well known fact that the number of software users who frequent that software's forums are a tiny minority.
We're just the ones with things to say or egos in need of inflation.

Stop worrying about LightWave's place in the world of 3d software, if you like it and it does what you need it to do, what else matters?

colkai
11-17-2006, 02:30 AM
I hang around in LWG3D, it has a hard core of meticulous multimillion polygon SF megaship fans.

http://www.lwg3d.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27346

Nuff Said. If you want any example of hard-core SF ships :D :D

Speaking of which, gonna assign myself some time this weekend to GASP work in LW - whoda thunk it? ;) :p

sbowling
12-03-2006, 12:20 AM
I think that LW while being an excellent product, is largely ignored as a minor player in the 3d realm.

For good reason. Anyone who uses Maya, XSI knows why lightwave is only a bit player when it comes to movies. It's CA is crap, it's scripting is crap, it's interface is crap and it doesn't integrate into a pipline for $#!#. About the only thing lightwave is good for is a cheap network render engine, but it's support for passes is also crap, so it's very limited in that aspect too. If you compare it to a program like XSI (what I now use) you would understand. XSI kicks the crap out of lightwave in everything other than free render nodes, and with the limited rendering capabilities of lightwave that's not enough to get studios to even think about using it.

Lightwave is a logo animation program at heart and it shows in everything it does. In fact, it doesn't even do that very well. All the quality (and many of the cheap) 3d programs out there allows you to type out text edit the bevels, etc. then go back and change things without having to start from scratch. can lightwave do something this trivial yet?

So the short answer is, Lightwave is trated like a crappy low qulity 3d program, because it is. I didn't believe this when I was a user, but after using a truly professional 3d program like XSI I now understand it. The rabid fanatical fanbase of lightwave users doesn't do much to help either.

UnCommonGrafx
12-03-2006, 12:29 AM
Sam,
Nice to see you back spewing your sh1t. I'm sitting here in SA at the moment knowing full well that what you speak and how you speak it is about your attempting to represent NewTek tools as less than they are. Somehow, I think even you have made money off this "crappy low quilty 3d program" (sic) and you don't have an appreciation of your status because of it.

What they've done; where their going; and what we the users will be able to do with it still shines as a beacon of user ingenuity and programming prowess.


Shut up!


This whole thread is a crock and here's my reason why: We, the users, have it in for lw because we've lost OUR confidence. WE don't give the mags our pics of pride. WE don't write articles espousing how lw can and has solved our issues. WE are the problem.

More pics to the mags. More conversations of problem solving on the many ill forums out there. It's about us and our confidence in our own skills with the tools we use. There is no doubt that the CA tools in LW need updating. Graham, go kick some butt on that point. ;)

Shiits coming. But if you need those tools now, spend your money. But keep your dongle cuz you'll be back.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-03-2006, 02:27 AM
Sam, you really should consider speaking only for yourself. I think your unprofessional posts discredit your scrutiny of what "a truly professional 3d program" entails.

I admit I am excited to try the XSI 6 trial, but Lightwave is still a very capable program in capable hands.


For good reason. Anyone who uses Maya, XSI knows why lightwave is only a bit player when it comes to movies. It's CA is crap, it's scripting is crap, it's interface is crap and it doesn't integrate into a pipline for $#!#. About the only thing lightwave is good for is a cheap network render engine, but it's support for passes is also crap, so it's very limited in that aspect too. If you compare it to a program like XSI (what I now use) you would understand. XSI kicks the crap out of lightwave in everything other than free render nodes, and with the limited rendering capabilities of lightwave that's not enough to get studios to even think about using it.

Lightwave is a logo animation program at heart and it shows in everything it does. In fact, it doesn't even do that very well. All the quality (and many of the cheap) 3d programs out there allows you to type out text edit the bevels, etc. then go back and change things without having to start from scratch. can lightwave do something this trivial yet?

So the short answer is, Lightwave is trated like a crappy low qulity 3d program, because it is. I didn't believe this when I was a user, but after using a truly professional 3d program like XSI I now understand it. The rabid fanatical fanbase of lightwave users doesn't do much to help either.

Dave Jerrard
12-03-2006, 03:23 AM
If you compare it to a program like XSI (what I now use) you would understand. XSI kicks the crap out of lightwave in everything other than free render nodes, and with the limited rendering capabilities of lightwave that's not enough to get studios to even think about using it.


Lightwave is a logo animation program at heart and it shows in everything it does. In fact, it doesn't even do that very well.


So the short answer is, Lightwave is trated like a crappy low qulity 3d program, because it is. I didn't believe this when I was a user, but after using a truly professional 3d program like XSI I now understand it. The rabid fanatical fanbase of lightwave users doesn't do much to help either.

And yet, you're here, bashing LightWave, in a LightWave forum, instead of hanging out in the forums for your app of choice... Why does this remind me of an earlier post? Look up. Look way up.... Say around post #89....


He Who Can't Recall The Last Time He Bitched In The XSI Or Maya Forums, Or Any Other Time.

colkai
12-03-2006, 03:25 AM
Ahh, good old Sam,
If you want vitriolic posts about LW you can always rely on him.
Gosh, I mean, I presume Lightwave crashed his system, which set fire to his house and killed his first born son. Why else go out of his way to be so nasty to a package he despises and yet cannot avoid posting about on forums dedicated to it?

As for rabid fanbases, checked the mirror lately?

I've seen a few XSI "evangelists" coming here and gushing over their package of choice, odd isn't it, that behaviour and your wording is seen in your eyes as "professional".
That being the case, may the Gods protect me from ever becoming as professional in my behaviour as you are Sam!

mikala
12-03-2006, 10:00 AM
Who the **** is Sam?
3DWorld has never really had much for LW in it. Since the merge pretty much all they spout is Maya/Max as they are being showered with advertising money.
Can't really blame them for that.
If it were me though I'd be sending in as much good art to them just to test the theories talked about so far...who knows maybe some of it will hit print?

tyrot
12-03-2006, 11:03 AM
dear colkai..

dont bother with X-SIzed wavers. XSIzers are really having weirdo problems which can not be cured..

My suggestion totally ignore the XSIzed wavers. Not even reply to them..I then make a song about them ..uncensored:)

Best

(PS. Mr. jerrard I never ever read a single soul who uses LW, lurks around others forums and writes these type of messages.
No Lightwaving requires dignity, respect, open minded attitude. We defend Lightwave but never attack to any software. That s why there is something called Lightwaving instead of USING a 3d application..)

colkai
12-04-2006, 02:35 AM
I've now't against XSI (though a friend says it's a pig to set up initially), but the whole double standard thing irks me a bit.

I admit, I should know by now there are certain people who will be that way and I should resist the temptation to rise to the bait. I probably would do if they didn't try to act as if they were all level-headed and professional whilst spouting vitriol and then gushing over their package of choice.

I'm sure for those using XSI, it's an indispensable part of their pipelines, but then, for those who are Lw-centric, it also holds true that Lightwave is critical for those folks.

It seems the "cannot do" or "workarounds" for other packages are suitably glossed over whilst proclaiming that any time you have a similar situation in LW, it's a crushing, fatal flaw.

As I say, double standards, that's the problem, choice of preferred software package has nothing at all to do with it.

Heck, anyone who knows me knows I use more than LW, doesn't mean I feel the need to slaughter what other packages can and cannot do, or LW for that matter.

I know full well LW has some big limitations, but I try to work around them or find other solutions, what I do not feel the need to do though, is go off on a hysterical rant about failings. Indeed, a certain person on here, came up with a workaround many many years ago for the lack of fast soft shadows.

That person did not go into a tirade, they got a result, a "workaround" that these days is seen much less as a workaround and more of an "industry trick".

Anyone who has spent any time on these boards knows who that person is, a person who has been held in high esteem for a long time, and rightly so.

Iain
12-04-2006, 02:47 AM
People who get so worked up over software have serious issues.

If you like it, use it. Simple as that. I've never understood software bashing.

digital verve
12-04-2006, 08:53 AM
People who get so worked up over software have serious issues.

If you like it, use it. Simple as that. I've never understood software bashing.

Actually it a recognised mental disorder and stems from various low self esteem issues that can translate itself to something as simple as software. :)

Bog
12-04-2006, 01:50 PM
*dips toe in thread*

GAAACH! HOLY BLAP!!! What the crapola? Clean up! Aisle 3! Bring the hazmat suits, thick gloves and snake boots!

Chris S. (Fez)
12-04-2006, 10:34 PM
OK. I'm not usually one to admit to LOL's, but that is ****ing funny.


*dips toe in thread*

GAAACH! HOLY BLAP!!! What the crapola? Clean up! Aisle 3! Bring the hazmat suits, thick gloves and snake boots!

dr01d
01-18-2007, 10:05 PM
having just got back into 3d after many years in hybernation (web industry). i wanted to get a mag and see whats been going on in the world of 3d...i managed to have a quick flick through 3dworld and was pretty disappointed. there was no content that appealed to me, the eye candy was nothing i had seen before on the web and too much advertising. so i didnt buy it.

i think the "having it in for lightwave" is a bit of an over reaction (like other comments here in that regard). they just obviously produce content to their readerbase. simple as that, they would do reseach into what their readers are interested in, apps used etc. if its not appealing to lw users, lw users probably arent contributing enough feedback and input (content etc).

i for one would be interested in a lw only (online mag) the likes of 3d creative (having briefly seen it). i would even be interested in contributing design wise, if there was such a thing ;-)

cresshead
01-18-2007, 10:20 PM
i've not read the thread [8 pages and growing] but my take is that 'no' the world doesn't hav it in for lightwave....

BSG....lightwave...mind you they're based on caprica...

there's a whole load of ex lightwavers who moved onto xsi that seem to have a mission to justify their move to xsi by slamming lw at any opportunity...

...now i'm not a single app chap..i have lightwave and max...plus xsi [somewhere]...lw's neat, so max....but i don't see any need to slam lw just cos i also have max....each has it's uses....and yeah xsi is okay too...so's maya i think..i have the ple of maya and just got the 3dbuzz training for it too...

lw?....it's cool and will remain so!

ben_smith
01-25-2007, 02:57 PM
I've only just been made aware of this thread by a letter in 3DWorld itself, so somewhat belatedly I'll wade it and try and defend the magazine.

I do indeed still write for 3DWorld, and I hand in a Q&A piece each month based on a question from a reader (cough). I also generally review new releases of LightWave and LW plug-ins as they come out.

There were some posts here criticising my review of LightWave 9, and I'll totally stand by the review. In fact after it went to press I found some bugs in LW9 that would probably have got it a lower score.

I think 3DWorld's coverage of LightWave is entirely adequate. If there is less LW coverage now than before it's probably because there are more 3D apps out there and the industry is more heavily based around maya/xsi/max.

/ben

Celshader
01-25-2007, 10:53 PM
I've only just been made aware of this thread by a letter in 3DWorld itself, so somewhat belatedly I'll wade it and try and defend the magazine.

I do indeed still write for 3DWorld, and I hand in a Q&A piece each month based on a question from a reader (cough). I also generally review new releases of LightWave and LW plug-ins as they come out.

There were some posts here criticising my review of LightWave 9, and I'll totally stand by the review. In fact after it went to press I found some bugs in LW9 that would probably have got it a lower score.

I think 3DWorld's coverage of LightWave is entirely adequate. If there is less LW coverage now than before it's probably because there are more 3D apps out there and the industry is more heavily based around maya/xsi/max.

/ben

First, thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread. It is much appreciated.

I also appreciate that you wrote a review of LightWave 9. However, your review of LightWave 9 is not what caused me to lose faith in 3D World as a source of accurate and thorough information.

Twice 3D World has omitted any mention of LightWave where it would be natural to do so -- a sidebar listing Digital Domain's toolset and the article about The Guardian. For some odd reason, 3D World could not add the word "LightWave" to a sidebar or a single sentence of information to the Guardian article. Luckily, I do not need 3D World for information about which studios hire LightWavers.

faulknermano
01-26-2007, 12:08 AM
Who the **** is Sam?

if you have to ask, you dont really need to know. :hey:

colkai
01-26-2007, 03:13 AM
Jen,
You're the "star letter" this month with 3DWorld defending what they have done / printed / not printed.

Suffice to say, maybe we have it wrong, they are not against LW per se, but have to, by logical of huge advertising revenue, be biased towards Autodesk products. After all, it is true, there are few LW based adverts which fill their mag. Maybe if there were 6 pages of LW / Newtek adverts and none of Autodesk, the story may be different.

All I know is, I check if Ben has done an article that month, if he ain't I can pretty much state the mag will have zero of interest for me.

I'm with you and Dave on this.

cresshead
01-26-2007, 03:19 AM
actually i think 3d world is cinema4d biased more than any other app...have a look at the amount of 'features' or ''how's to's'' that use cinema4d...they outnumber any autodesk product if you look back thru the mags...i wound't mind so much but i believe it's disproportionate to the userbaser/readerbase of 3dworld.

re news...3d world is always 6-8 weeks behind due to it being a print based product..so ''news'' should be re titled 'old news' :^)

Dodgy
01-26-2007, 03:28 AM
Twice 3D World has omitted any mention of LightWave where it would be natural to do so -- a sidebar listing Digital Domain's toolset and the article about The Guardian. For some odd reason, 3D World could not add the word "LightWave" to a sidebar or a single sentence of information to the Guardian article. Luckily, I do not need 3D World for information about which studios hire LightWavers.

I do find 3d world's coverage of LW to be adequate given the current market place, but this was one area where I found it decidedly bizarre that there was no mention of LW at all. It does seem when it comes to mentioning what packages are used on a production, every packages under the sun gets mentioned no matter how little they are used, except for LW. The Guardian from what I understand (a guy who worked on it came here to say this) used LW a lot, with just specific shots using realflow for more accuracy, yet realflow was mentioned and LW was not. That really kind of baffled me.

ben_smith
01-26-2007, 03:59 AM
This is a slightly confusing thread for me since it seems one of you is Jen who submitted the letter to 3DW, but you've all got usernames so I don't know who it is.

Regards the issue with the Guardian and Digital Domain's usage of LW - I can't comment personally as I didn't have anything to do with those pieces. I can however assure you there is no 3DW bias toward or away from any software vendor. If the magazine sometimes seems to have an Autodesk skew you need to remember Autodesk now control two of the most popular apps, and arguably dominate the industry. It's only natural there's a lot of Autodesk in there.

In the past I've also known studios omit lightwave from their official press releases and so forth because they don't thnk it has any PR value. Clients perceive Maya and XSI as what they want, and some studios actually lie about this when in fact they use LW.

On a personal note, I am finding it harder and harder to write LW content for the magazine as we now use XSI at Red Star for a lot of stuff and we really just render in LW. We have held back on using LW9 for a lot of tutorials since until they release 9.2 it's a bit flaky, and there's no demo yet available for the coverdisk.

/ben

ben_smith
01-26-2007, 04:02 AM
[QUOTE=colkai]All I know is, I check if Ben has done an article that month, if he ain't I can pretty much state the mag will have zero of interest for me.[QUOTE]

I think you're missing out here Colkai. Most tutorials or features have a lot in them that you can adapt and work into your own work in LW or whatever. We're trying to concentrate on the underlying techniques rather than the features of specific apps.

/ben

DogBoy
01-26-2007, 04:29 AM
This is a slightly confusing thread for me since it seems one of you is Jen who submitted the letter to 3DW, but you've all got usernames so I don't know who it is.
/ben

Celshader = Jen

colkai
01-26-2007, 04:37 AM
I think you're missing out here Colkai. Most tutorials or features have a lot in them that you can adapt and work into your own work in LW

Oh i do appreciate that Ben, but then, a lot of the time, the same info is normally "around here" or SQ where one can get LW brains to pick if need be (Ewww, sounds like I'm advocating a gross-out lightsnack! :eek: ).

jeremyhardin
01-26-2007, 04:50 AM
and there's no demo yet available for the coverdisk.

/ben

Hiya Ben. Just chiming in here briefly...but there is a fully functional demo of 9. Not one of 9.2 yet, but I suspect it'll replace the 9.0 demo as soon as it's released.
http://newtek.com/lightwave/lwtrial/

DogBoy
01-26-2007, 05:06 AM
On a personal note, I am finding it harder and harder to write LW content for the magazine as we now use XSI at Red Star for a lot of stuff and we really just render in LW.

/ben

I had heard this (that you have moved mainly over to XSI). Do you think you have time or inclination to learn the newer parts of 9.0/9.2 for doing tutes? You have enough on your plate wi' out having to research new features in enough detail to tutor others in them.

I don't mean this badly, but it's kinda sad if 3DWs LW guy has pretty much dropped LW :D . It does you no favours by wasting your time coming up wi' stuff, and it does LW no favours either. If you are feeling under the cosh to develop more content, have you got anyone in mind to take over the mantle?

tyrot
01-26-2007, 05:57 AM
I don't mean this badly, but it's kinda sad if 3DWs LW guy has pretty much dropped LW :D .

dear dogboy

a very valid point.

So Ben should stop writing tuts for LW they have to find someone else (jerrard may be...because 3dWorld mag full of british)

First of all 3d world mag is getting dull and boring... I see nothing but BIG pictures and small sections of texts. Biased choice on reviewed material.. In that Japan issue there were 3 3dsmax related review. (they keep reviewing anark studio...almost every update of anark gets reviewed. What an important program for history of 3d)

There was not a single word for LW in their "that was the year that was" article. Kira-Anne was glorifying and hoping more MODO for 2007 ..well good for her and all modoians..We will see what s gonna happen in 2007.

Plus ...second page ..a big VRAY ad..nothing wrong with it except it was a stupid Ad..my name is RAY...V-RAY??..give me a break... But that is not the issue...in their EXHIBITION pages the biggest image is also made by VRAY although it is just an ordinary interior.

There are this type of small implications all over the magazine. And the name is WRONG utterly .IT should be "British-POV-to-3D World". Craig Zerouni's and his utterly empty articles about hollywood ???? (i would say he is preaching to Hollywood to use more British Post production houses)..come on come on...utterly dull articles..

And they cant even get normal ads from different companies. That's why magazine unfortunately infested by Publisher's ads...

Please read Future Music or Computer Music mags and see the difference. I cant believe a vivid industry such 3d industry deserve such a boring shallow magazine...

Best ? come on...

kilvano
01-26-2007, 06:27 AM
At the end of the day, 3DW isnt a fan mag...its a commercial publication that has to please the masses.

LW isnt as big a player as other apps anymore and dare i say it, hasnt had the fast paced devlopment like that of Modo. I know Newtek like to say its in lots of movies but in grand scheme of all movies, games, animations, adverts, SFX it cant be compared to Maya/3dMax

What lightwave does have for it is the fact that its a great prgram that has been arround since the dawn of time (3d time that is), it has one of the best render engines and in my opinion it is one of the easiest to learn.

Im in the middle of looking for jobs in London at the moment and ive only found one company hiring for lightwave. I think LW is more popular in north america but since 3dw is UK based i guess its considers LW to be less worthy of space than say the new release of maya.

I havent read 3dw in a while but if remember correctly it said that 9.0 was more of a update than a complete overhaul. I have to agree...9.0 felt like 8.x upgrade than a complete rewrite. While the render engine is faster and other tools are better, i would have liked to have seen a greater focus on the UI, screamernet, CA and others to really make a big impact in inducstry and i bet 3dw would have given them more attension

colkai
01-26-2007, 06:44 AM
I truly believe, part of the problem with people trying to review LW9.X is that, well, in honesty, you can't, because it isn't here.

What I mean is, normally, you buy a product and get a "point upgrade" - end of story, either by paid or free, (though not often the latter).
With LW9, people are struggling to grasp that no, you are not buying a point upgrade, you are buying into the upgrade.
As we all know, LW's upgrade is ongoing and has a long way to go, with many new features to be built and tested.

Joe Public has a hard time with this, imagine buying a new car, then have the garage say, "hey, come on down, we're fitting air con and traction control - free". A few months later, you get a whole new drive train, free.

Not easy to sell "as is", because it ain't, it's as will be.

Now do I think peoples reaction to LW will improve once the dust settles? Maybe, possibly, but when all is said and done, the money Autodesk throw at marketing Newtek would probably kill for developing. After all, as I've said previously, Autodesk is a behemoth and has a bank balance to back it up, which pays for advertising space..which...well, you know the rest.

kilvano
01-26-2007, 06:51 AM
Big big business doesnt was this approach.

They want a package they can rely on and has the feature it need, not waiting on a feature that will come along in a point upgrade based on a fluid timescale.

If i were to go freelance, i may consider LW because its what i know and i love the community attached to it. I cant see a studio having this approach. Lots choose maya because it so felxible with the script writers and prob easier to integrate into a pipeline.



I truly believe, part of the problem with people trying to review LW9.X is that, well, in honesty, you can't, because it isn't here.

What I mean is, normally, you buy a product and get a "point upgrade" - end of story, either by paid or free, (though not often the latter).
With LW9, people are struggling to grasp that no, you are not buying a point upgrade, you are buying into the upgrade.
As we all know, LW's upgrade is ongoing and has a long way to go, with many new features to be built and tested.

Joe Public has a hard time with this, imagine buying a new car, then have the garage say, "hey, come on down, we're fitting air con and traction control - free". A few months later, you get a whole new drive train, free.

Not easy to sell "as is", because it ain't, it's as will be.

Now do I think peoples reaction to LW will improve once the dust settles? Maybe, possibly, but when all is said and done, the money Autodesk throw at marketing Newtek would probably kill for developing. After all, as I've said previously, Autodesk is a behemoth and has a bank balance to back it up, which pays for advertising space..which...well, you know the rest.

colkai
01-26-2007, 07:02 AM
It's a double-edged sword unfortunately, as the option is to go quiet.
Anyone recall folks saying how XSI was doomed, dead, never to return when that went "off the radar".

Anyhoo, sliding off topic here, sorry 'bout that. I now return you to your scheduled programmes.

pooby
01-26-2007, 07:48 AM
I now return you to your scheduled programmes.

not just yet..


Joe Public has a hard time with this, imagine buying a new car, then have the garage say, "hey, come on down, we're fitting air con and traction control - free". A few months later, you get a whole new drive train, free.


We were promised modelling tools in layout in LW 9.This sounded like a radical expansion of LW's animation capabilities.. That was meant arrive 4th quarter 2005 .... it's now 2007

It certainly wasn't made clear to me at the time that this scenario was a possibility. If i'd have known that then, I wouldn't have bought the upgrade at the time, I'd have waited. Plus, I wouldn't have spent months waiting and holding out on switching the studio to XSI. (in the hope that LW's advancements in animation would make it worth sticking with)

Also, The lack of F-prime support means it hasn't been worth upgrading all our workstations to 9 yet, as we render 90% of work with it.
So, I paid for something 2 years ago that I haven't got yet.

I would say nine wasn't so much LW re-born as Newtek in Labour with complications.

colkai
01-26-2007, 08:58 AM
I'm not saying what was promised and when here, I'm saying, the concept of development in stage is something folks just cannot wrap their heads around.
Given what I've read here and elsewhere, I'd say I'm right about that.

Now, I'm not saying that approach is right or wrong, it just "is".
Yes, I'll admit it, even as a long time developer of software myself, I have 'problems' with it in getting my head to accept what I see now is not what I may end up with.

I can also fully accept that people do not have the luxury of waiting, in that case, one can only hope, for Newteks sake, that the final product is enough to tempt people into upgrading at that point.

Around these parts ,we got a saying, "making the best of a bad situation" and I'm pretty sure that's what Newtek must of thought when faced with how to tackle this whole rebirth thing.

Can I go watch TV now? Can I? huh?

Kurtis
01-26-2007, 09:02 AM
Hiya Ben. Just chiming in here briefly...but there is a fully functional demo of 9. Not one of 9.2 yet, but I suspect it'll replace the 9.0 demo as soon as it's released.
http://newtek.com/lightwave/lwtrial/

It's my understanding that NewTek Europe is working with 3DWorld to get the v9.0 Trial Edition on the cover disk.

kilvano
01-26-2007, 09:02 AM
Can I go watch TV now? Can I? huh?

i dont know...have you done your homework?

Celshader
01-26-2007, 10:19 AM
This is a slightly confusing thread for me since it seems one of you is Jen who submitted the letter to 3DW, but you've all got usernames so I don't know who it is.

Regards the issue with the Guardian and Digital Domain's usage of LW - I can't comment personally as I didn't have anything to do with those pieces. I can however assure you there is no 3DW bias toward or away from any software vendor. If the magazine sometimes seems to have an Autodesk skew you need to remember Autodesk now control two of the most popular apps, and arguably dominate the industry. It's only natural there's a lot of Autodesk in there.

In the past I've also known studios omit lightwave from their official press releases and so forth because they don't thnk it has any PR value. Clients perceive Maya and XSI as what they want, and some studios actually lie about this when in fact they use LW.

On a personal note, I am finding it harder and harder to write LW content for the magazine as we now use XSI at Red Star for a lot of stuff and we really just render in LW. We have held back on using LW9 for a lot of tutorials since until they release 9.2 it's a bit flaky, and there's no demo yet available for the coverdisk.

/ben

First, I am Spartacus (Jen). I did not know that my letter got printed this month.

Second, the omissions of LW from a sidebar and the Guardian article still make a terrible impression on me, since I can find much more accurate and complete information about DD's toolset and The Guardian outside of 3D World. For example, anyone who visits Digital Domain's website (http://www.digitaldomain.com/) will find these bits in the "what we are always looking for" section:


MODELERS
Photorealistic MODELERS design and build organic and hard surface 3D models for high-profile feature film and commercial projects. Qualified candidates will possess a minimum of 3 years modeling experience using Maya software in a feature film and/or commercials production environment. A strong design sense and technical understanding of modeling geometry are a must and a demonstrated ability to create high-end, complex 3D models is essential. Experience in photorealistic lighting and texturing is strongly desired and effects/animation experience is a plus. Software: Maya, Houdini, Lightwave, Renderman, and Mental Ray.

LIGHTWAVE GENERALISTS
LIGHTWAVE GENERALISTS require a minimum of 2 years CG production experience, preferably on high-end commercial and/or feature film projects.

So, Digital Domain's website offers more information about its toolset than 3D World. Digital Domain has no problem broadcasting that they use LightWave on their website, yet 3D World had trouble reporting this little bit of info in their sidebar.

Also, these online (and free) sources mentioned LightWave's role in The Guardian:


A NewTek press release (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/case_flashfilmworks.php)
A NEXT LIMIT press release (http://www.nextlimit.com/realflow/cs_guardian.htm)(!!!)
A VFX Talk article (http://www.vfxtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6983)

Even the Next Limit press release mentions LightWave, but 3D World could not. It looks like LightWave will get a credit on the RealFlow website before it gets a credit in 3D World.

-+-

That said, your posts suggest that 3D World lives near a drastically different 3D industry than the one I know. Specifically, it sounds like XSI actually has a living, breathing chance where you live. Around here in Los Angeles, Maya is king, and XSI is mostly dead. Folks have an easier time getting a LightWave job than an XSI job around here.

If 3D World wants to cater to the 3D industry outside of Los Angeles, that's fine. I must continue to rely on other sources for information, though, since I do need to know which studios use LightWave.

Mr. Limpet
01-26-2007, 10:42 AM
Please read Future Music or Computer Music mags and see the difference. I cant believe a vivid industry such 3d industry deserve such a boring shallow magazine...


I read these mags pretty often and they are only marginally better than 3D World. Lots of big pictures. Not much content. Lots of product reviews and not enough truly valuable tuts or tips. Part of the problem is that in trying to cover so many sequencers, they cant' do a decent job on any one of them. Plus these mags virtually ignore Pro Tools which indicates their audience consists mainly of garage band types and not professionals in the mixing world.

The brit audio mag "Sound on Sound" does a much better job. The articles actually have some heft to them and more real estate is occupied with text than photos. Unfortunate there isn't a version from that publisher for 3D.

I am not sure what to make of 3D World. They suffer the same problems. Trying to cover too many apps and not doing any one of them very well. Mostly ignoring LW. It would help their sales to start putting attractive naked women like "3D Animator of the Month Natalie from Bristol" as so many other Brit mags do.

Lightwolf
01-26-2007, 11:11 AM
If 3D World wants to cater to the 3D industry outside of Los Angeles, that's fine. I must continue to rely on other sources for information, though, since I do need to know which studios use LightWave.
As much as I agree with the rest of your assessment (except the last two paragraphs).
Are you aware of the fact that there is a 3D industry outside of Hollywood? And an industry besides CG for movies and ads? (yes, I know you are...but I couldn't resist ;) )
Last time I checked 3D world was a UK mag, and I believe as such it mainly covers the market in the UK.
And while the markets in Europe vary from country to country, LW does play a rather minor role over here (except for some niches in certain countries, such as architecture in Italy it seems).
I'd say the ranking is more like Max, Maya, C4D, XSI, LW right now (atleast in Germany) - with XSI mainly used in the high end (read: budgets) CA areas. Max being the generalists workhorse, Maya used mainly for VFX (and some industrial work), C4D and LW being the small boutiques tools (I believe we are the only studio/boutique in this area of Germany that only uses LW - and there's only two of us - and it is not like there is no market here either).

Cheers,
Mike

colkai
01-26-2007, 11:45 AM
i dont know...have you done your homework?
Homework? At MY age? ;) :p

starbase1
01-26-2007, 12:27 PM
I saw the original review, and thought it tough but fair. Off the top of my head, I think that is fairly consistent with the way they review other aps too, and I prefer this - you can't fawn over everything, you need to know strengths and weak points.

If you get everything we are hoping for by 9.5, I would hope that would make a huge difference!

But surely the problem any magazine of this type has is that everyone wants their package covered, but there are DOZENS of different ones out there in the same position. They can't do 1 item for each package each month.

Dave Jerrard
01-26-2007, 01:56 PM
Oh i do appreciate that Ben, but then, a lot of the time, the same info is normally "around here" or SQ where one can get LW brains to pick if need be (Ewww, sounds like I'm advocating a gross-out lightsnack! :eek: ).
Mmmm. Brains!!!!!



He Who Would Barely Qualify As A Snack in This Case.

Dave Jerrard
01-26-2007, 02:34 PM
LW isnt as big a player as other apps anymore and dare i say it, hasnt had the fast paced devlopment like that of Modo. I know Newtek like to say its in lots of movies but in grand scheme of all movies, games, animations, adverts, SFX it cant be compared to Maya/3dMaxModo has been in development for about 5 years. LightWave 9 has been in developen for just over half of that, once all the legal issues were cleared up, and had to deal with all the mess that was left by the old team. I'd say the development is just as fast now, based on the changes I've seen in the past year alone. Modo still doesn't have any animation capability, or character tools, or an SDK.

LightWave IS used a **** of a lot more in Hollywood than you're led to believe. I know people that are using it daily on stuff, only to be shortchanged later when their work is incorrectly (fraudulently?) credited to Maya or XSI, either because the reviewer is only really familiar with those names, or the studio is under some obligation to a director or developer to not mention that any other software was used. It happens a LOT. Some director or executive, who doesn't know 3D from his own rectum, comes to an effects house and asked for an effect to be done, and then brings up a name he pulled out of a magazine he just read and demands it be done in Maya or XSI, even if these are not the ideal solutions for the task at hand.



I havent read 3dw in a while but if remember correctly it said that 9.0 was more of a update than a complete overhaul. I have to agree...9.0 felt like 8.x upgrade than a complete rewrite. While the render engine is faster and other tools are better, i would have liked to have seen a greater focus on the UI, screamernet, CA and others to really make a big impact in inducstry and i bet 3dw would have given them more attensionAs has been stated several times on the NewTek pages, most of the work on 9.0 was under the hood, fixing long standing problems that were holding back development of newer and better features. Until the base of the program is fixed and provided a proper framework for communication across the entire app, a new UI isn't really all that feasible. It would pretty much amount to a new coat of paint on a rusted out car - it would be shiny, but you'd still see the holes. NewTek has posted elsewhere that over 1000 bugs were killed for 9.0, and that's no simple feat. That's about 3 bugs a day for the entire development cycle, and a lot of those were very old bugs that were buried deep.

I've mentioned before that LW8.0 was a low point for me. Since 8.2 though, I've seen remarkable progress. Since 9.0, I have a hard time going back to 8.x, and now I'm finding the same thing when I have to use 9.0 after having tried 9.2. I think when 9.2 is public, people are really going to like what they see.


He Who Thinks LightWave Is On The Upswing Now.

tonybliss
01-26-2007, 03:20 PM
"... who doesn't know 3D from his own rectum ..." - Dave Jerrard

Funny you should say that, I know 3d, but up to last night I could not locate my rectum, my wife however knows but she does not want to tell me :(
Coincidence or do YOU know where my rectum is ...

Ok i'll stop now :(

tonybliss
01-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Last edited by Dave Jerrard : Today at 05:34 PM. Reason: This grant ensures a light bulb in every classroom, and a high-definition TV for the teachers lounge. -

I'll hold you to that, but how about a HD TV for every teacher's HOUSE ....

Phil
01-26-2007, 03:23 PM
Actually, the whole of 8.x was a disappointment to me. My confidence was partially restored with 9.0 (a *very* close call for the upgrade fee, compared to XSI Foundation - which I can see pulling a lot of potential punters for almost every other package in that price range).

9.2 is what I'd have liked the 9.0 to have been. Next stop will be the render pass support (right down to texture level - no more crude per-object or per-surface masks), the promised animation overhaul and Modeler tool consolidation. I'd also like to see LWSN taken out and shot for having such a crap implementation.

At that point, I'd expect 3DWorld to take more notice. Without render passes, the rendering system is extremely limited. Without being able to bolt LW to an establised mental ray farm, it's going to be difficult to work within facilities that walked away when "old" NewTek dropped the ball - the aren't going to drop an expensive render farm because you won't talk to it.

Wonderpup
01-26-2007, 03:24 PM
Modo has been in development for about 5 years



most of the work on 9.0 was under the hood, fixing long standing problems that were holding back development of newer and better features.

Cause and effect?

Dave Jerrard
01-26-2007, 03:25 PM
"... who doesn't know 3D from his own rectum ..." - Dave Jerrard

Funny you should say that, I know 3d, but up to last night I could not locate my rectum, my wife however knows but she does not want to tell me :(
Coincidence or do YOU know where my rectum is ...

Ok i'll stop now :(It's behind the sofa, next to the missing sock.

He Who Wonders Why Everything That's Missing Is Behind The Sofa.

tonybliss
01-26-2007, 03:40 PM
found it!!

thanks ... i think :S
PS Joblessness is a state of mind

Dave Jerrard
01-26-2007, 03:52 PM
Actually, the whole of 8.x was a disappointment to me. My confidence was partially restored with 9.0 (a *very* close call for the upgrade fee, compared to XSI Foundation - which I can see pulling a lot of potential punters for almost every other package in that price range).8.0 was the big drop for me. After a couple years of virtually no development, 8.0 came out with an unwarranted change in the configs (which I gave up on), and I really didn't look forward to any updates for a while. It was buggy, clumsy to use, and the new color change didn't really do much for me. I'm still not crazy about the colors, but there's bigger things to deal with so I can live with them, even though they can actually be easily changed.

When I found out what was going on, stuff made sense. A new team inheriting some poorly documented code, that had to basically reverse engineer everything to figure out what does what. And they had to fix it & make it better. I don't envy them that task.

Last year, I was talking to some of teh NewTek guys, and one of them told me (either Jay or Jim) that they were actually trhilled to finally be able to do what they wanted with the code because they owned it. Before, NewTek was essentially just a distributer, and didn't actually have the control they would like over LightWave's development. With the Video Toaster, they could do what they wanted and when they wanted, and that's a pretty solid piece of software/hardware. In fact, I don't recall ever crashing the Video Toaster software. Ever! I think that's the only software I've never crashed.

Anyway, once they figured out what does what, and started ripping the junk out and getting stuff organized, LightWave started getting more stable, faster, and better. Newer more powerful plugins and features are able to be added because of the work they did under the hood, like new cameras, LW-CAD, nodes, etc.. Heck, just look at the huge boatload of nodes from RJJ & IFW that's available. Many of these do things I didn't even know was possible in the node system. Dennis Pontonnier has another invaluable collection of them, for free! These changes have made my life so much easier in the past year. No, it's not perfect, but nothing is. I'm really looking foward to the next version to see what new goodies I'll be getting.




9.2 is what I'd have liked the 9.0 to have been. Next stop will be the render pass support (right down to texture level - no more crude per-object or per-surface masks), the promised animation overhaul and Modeler tool consolidation. I'd also like to see LWSN taken out and shot for having such a crap implementation.I'll agree here that 9.2 should have been 9.0. I think everyone wishes the next version was the current version of any software though. Render pass support would be nice. I'm not a big multi-pass fan, but when I need it, I'd like it to be simple and powerful. It's a royal pain having to set up multiple scenes for different elements, especially when you have to make a change somewhere.

LWSN isn't a problem for me. It's just a command line renderer. Or are you talking about the poor built-in controller? That thing really needs to be taken out and made a standalone. And it needs some major updating. At least now it can finally load scenes onto multiple machines SIMULTANEOUSLY! I've used it a few times before where the first machines would be done rendering before the last machine even loaded the scene, and had to wait. I won't miss those days. I would also like to see RenderDroid updated and included. It was part of WaveFilter, which was about the first LW plugin ever, and that thing was given to NewTek years ago for inclusion. A lot of WF's features are still desirable today.


He Who Would Also Like To See WaveFilter's Object Volumetrics Added.

kilvano
01-26-2007, 04:04 PM
PS Joblessness is a state of mind

Awesome...ill let my bank manager know that :screwy:

Im confident ill get a job in media in London, but im just waiting to move there!

tonybliss
01-26-2007, 04:30 PM
Awesome...ill let my bank manager know that :screwy:

Im confident ill get a job in media in London, but im just waiting to move there!
for the love of God don't do that :tsktsk:

All the best in finding a job there, there are a lot of opportunities there :beerchug:

Phil
01-26-2007, 04:33 PM
Anyway, once they figured out what does what, and started ripping the junk out and getting stuff organized, LightWave started getting more stable, faster, and better.

Hmm. Stable is not something I have really been able to attribute to LW since I started using it. 4.0 was pretty reasonable, but 5.5/5.6 were very crash-happy (Steamer in particular was so unstable that I hated tweaking it, despite the end-results).

8.x was generally very buggy. QA went right down the crapper with point releases breaking major sub-systems, like special buffers. This would not have been so bad except that plugins tend to die badly when LW doesn't behave as expected. This caused me a *lot* of pain, but 8.0 was the only way that NewTek delivered an important fix to their multithreaded rendering system. 7.x users were left out in the cold despite 6 months of fixes *and* a 7.5d fix after 8.0 shipped. That irritated me and made me seriously question NewTek's ability to support customers - a high-impact bug was left standing in the previous release... So I'm biased a little. I would not have wanted to use 8.x *at all* except I needed that bug fix.

My personal license never got upgraded from 7.5 until 9.0 because of this.

Regarding the new features, I think implementation is still awkward. I'm not keen on Nodal because I still need to roundtrip work to 8.x because I need decent support for texture-level masks, with raytracing support. In general this is for subtle glow and bloom effects which LW cannot support - largely because of its ancient and half-arsed glow system, which gloriously fails to actually handle raytracing. SuperGlow 2 solves this, but is broken in 9.x and is currently lacking a Mac port (a separate issue, and not one which I can lay at NewTek's door).


I'll agree here that 9.2 should have been 9.0. I think everyone wishes the next version was the current version of any software though. Render pass support would be nice. I'm not a big multi-pass fan, but when I need it, I'd like it to be simple and powerful. It's a royal pain having to set up multiple scenes for different elements, especially when you have to make a change somewhere.

True, but 9.0 is not reliable. Hub is a case in point - it's pretty hopeless in 9.0. 9.2 is, in this respect, a good deal better. It's also much more usable thanks to the OpenGL improvements. These two alone would have made 9.0 an impressive debut release.

Still, at least I'm in the happy position to be impressed with a point release for once. Compared to what might be been a similar iteration of a release, e.g. 8.2, 9.2 is worthy.


LWSN isn't a problem for me. It's just a command line renderer. Or are you talking about the poor built-in controller? That thing really needs to be taken out and made a standalone. And it needs some major updating. At least now it can finally load scenes onto multiple machines SIMULTANEOUSLY! I've used it a few times before where the first machines would be done rendering before the last machine even loaded the scene, and had to wait. I won't miss those days. I would also like to see RenderDroid updated and included. It was part of WaveFilter, which was about the first LW plugin ever, and that thing was given to NewTek years ago for inclusion. A lot of WF's features are still desirable today.


He Who Would Also Like To See WaveFilter's Object Volumetrics Added.

I remember RenderDroid. It was handy. I also would like to see the control application ripped out, or at least made non-blocking. However, what I would also like to have is auto-discovery of nodes and auto-configuration. It really should be as simple as setting up the shared drives on the host machine, firing up a configuration tool on the nodes and having it all autoconfigure from there. No text file hacking - just plug and play. If I wanted to hack text files, I'd be using Povray or administrating *nix boxes for a living. In 2007, the software should be capable of dealing with this; it's hardly an innovation. BNR3PE deals with this, but this shouldn't really be a 3rd party issue - especially for folks like me who use their old laptops as low-impact render nodes.

I'd also like to see render direct-to-disk so that this nonsense regarding print resolution rendering finally gets killed off. Both for LWSN nodes and also for F10 type renders. I'd much rather have a slow render than no render at all in these situations.

Lightwolf
01-26-2007, 05:18 PM
A new team inheriting some poorly documented code, that had to basically reverse engineer everything to figure out what does what. And they had to fix it & make it better. I don't envy them that task.

I would argue that this is the case usually. As a team you tend to design a system that the team can live in, but it will be hard for any outsider to get to grips with, especially with no time to get into it. So you need to reverse engineer, however decent the system actually is. I.e. I'd like to see what the comments would be like if the lux team had to continue working on EIAS, or the current dev team had to work on.... Maya? ;)
If you look at the Adobe or Macromedia SDKs (which are meant for the public) you'd know what I mean. Heck, there's hardly anything of the original programming language (C++) left because it has been extended with so many custom macros that you haven't a clue as to what it is actually doing.
Compared to that the LW SDK is a breeze to understand.
Also, why should code that is not meant to be handed over to third parties be made easy to understand for third parties in the first place. Hand at heart... how many of you create scenes that anybody else using LW would understand at a first glance?

I haven't seen any of the actual core code, so do take this comment with a grain of salt.


It was part of WaveFilter, which was about the first LW plugin ever, and that thing was given to NewTek years ago for inclusion. A lot of WF's features are still desirable today.
Well, if you'd seen some of that source code, you'd probably know why ;)


I'd also like to see render direct-to-disk so that this nonsense regarding print resolution rendering finally gets killed off. Both for LWSN nodes and also for F10 type renders. I'd much rather have a slow render than no render at all in these situations.
Trivial to do for a third party... if all you want is RGB.
Hard to do for NT, since it would be likely to break all image filter plugins (still, no big loss in _most_ cases, not counting exTrader ;) ). Actually, any of the vanilla image savers should handle it.

colkai
01-27-2007, 03:47 AM
I would argue that this is the case usually. As a team you tend to design a system that the team can live in, but it will be hard for any outsider to get to grips with, especially with no time to get into it.

...

Also, why should code that is not meant to be handed over to third parties be made easy to understand for third parties in the first place.

I'd agree with the first part but I disagree with the second part.
But then, I work in a place where documenting (i.e. commenting) your code and making it easy to pick up and enhance / debug by any member of the code team, or any would-be member, is paramount.

We had one developer who wrote stunning code, but no-one else could interpret / edit it without a lot of time reverse engineering it. I was always 'raised' in the coding game to make "readable" code and I still try today.

It also has to be said, some people, rather than making it easy to de-construct their code, go the opposite way deliberately, make it nigh on impossible to do so, in order to "protect their code" (read status / position).

No matter though, I think most of here do agree, big task, would of liked it earlier, but under no illusions as to the enormity of the job at hand for the dev. team and all concerned.

As Dave says, I'm liking what I see so far, it gives me hope for the future of the LW9.X cycle.

Oh dear, I've wandered off topic again...
Ahh well, put it down to my advancing years eh? ;)

Lightwolf
01-27-2007, 04:40 AM
But then, I work in a place where documenting (i.e. commenting) your code and making it easy to pick up and enhance / debug by any member of the code team, or any would-be member, is paramount.

Oh, I absolutely agree. However I find that even my own code (which I comment well enough) is hard enough to decipher after a couple of years... and I still have to remember what I was thinking at the time.
If you look at the amount of work in pre 8.0 LW and the size of the team (2 people until 3.5) it just doesn't surprise me at all.
Doing things by the book is always good in theory, but not always practical in the real world. And NT never had a dev team the size of Alias or Autodesk - with all the advantages and disadvantages that are connected to that.
Just out of curiosity, how many people code where you work?

Cheers,
Mike

colkai
01-27-2007, 05:41 AM
Oh, I absolutely agree. However I find that even my own code (which I comment well enough) is hard enough to decipher after a couple of years... and I still have to remember what I was thinking at the time.

Ahh, now..see, noticed how I cleverly avoided that little problem? ;) :p

It's been years since I did 'serious' code in C++ now and I look at my old code and think "huh? how'd I...what?" If I didn't know better, i'd swear someone else wrote it. :p

So I guess, if anything, we've just pointed out how big a deal it is that Newtek have come so far already. ;)

How many code here now?
Hmm, well, all told, about 5, but it's more convoluted than that as we have separate departments, coding differrent apps for different markets in different languages.

(Don't even ask, you really don't want to get me started on that particular subject hehe.)

Lightwolf
01-27-2007, 05:48 AM
Ahh, now..see, noticed how I cleverly avoided that little problem? ;) :p
You can run, but you can't hide :p (ducking might help though ;) ).


(Don't even ask, you really don't want to get me started on that particular subject hehe.)
Certainly not in this thread - which has already drifted seriously off topic thanks to my generous help...

Cheers,
Mike

jojolimited
01-30-2007, 11:43 AM
Hi, my first post here...
Nov/Dec 2006 issue of ShowReel magazine gave a very good review to LW9, in fact that's why I plan on getting LW in Feb (plus the great companion pricing).

The review is not in their online version yet.
showreel.org

Joe C.

poor old wave!
01-30-2007, 03:21 PM
No, oldtek has it in for lightwave............:D

User has been banned for the creation of multiple accounts and an obvious purpose to promote competing products.

jeremyhardin
01-31-2007, 05:37 AM
As much as I agree with the rest of your assessment (except the last two paragraphs).
Are you aware of the fact that there is a 3D industry outside of Hollywood? And an industry besides CG for movies and ads? (yes, I know you are...but I couldn't resist ;) )
Last time I checked 3D world was a UK mag, and I believe as such it mainly covers the market in the UK.
And while the markets in Europe vary from country to country, LW does play a rather minor role over here (except for some niches in certain countries, such as architecture in Italy it seems).
I'd say the ranking is more like Max, Maya, C4D, XSI, LW right now (atleast in Germany) - with XSI mainly used in the high end (read: budgets) CA areas. Max being the generalists workhorse, Maya used mainly for VFX (and some industrial work), C4D and LW being the small boutiques tools (I believe we are the only studio/boutique in this area of Germany that only uses LW - and there's only two of us - and it is not like there is no market here either).

Cheers,
Mike
I hadn't thought about this, but you bring up a very valid point. It really is a very different market here. Not to say that 3D world represents the UK/European market well or poorly. I hadn't given it much thought.

But I would agree with your overall thoughts. It's hard to say what's used more (Max or Maya) in my experience, but I would say that LW is being used less here in general. I wonder if there are any hard facts on this anywhere.

ben_smith
01-31-2007, 06:24 AM
I had heard this (that you have moved mainly over to XSI). Do you think you have time or inclination to learn the newer parts of 9.0/9.2 for doing tutes? You have enough on your plate wi' out having to research new features in enough detail to tutor others in them.

I don't mean this badly, but it's kinda sad if 3DWs LW guy has pretty much dropped LW :D . It does you no favours by wasting your time coming up wi' stuff, and it does LW no favours either. If you are feeling under the cosh to develop more content, have you got anyone in mind to take over the mantle?


Trust me, I know LightWave 9 inside out, but I've veered away from doing too much LW9 stuff since ít's still quite buggy and we haven't been able to covermount the demo yet. And yes, I'm very busy with my production and management job and that leaves me little time to tinker.

We haven't dropped LW at Red Star, but we now use XSI for all character animation and increasingly for scene layout and any other kind of animation. We're trying to move to a setup where LW is just used for rendering, and we're hoping future releases of modo might replace LW for us. Who knows.

Yes, I may soon step down from 3DW. I tried once before at issue 50 but they lured me back (not, I hasten to add, with more money). I wanted to keep it going to issue 100, but doubt this will happen.

/b

ben_smith
01-31-2007, 06:29 AM
Jen, you're just going to have to take my word for it - it was a simple error of omission: a mistake. The 3DW staff are journalists primarily, they're not involved with 3D like we are and they wouldn't even begin to show a bias to certain apps or companies - they just don't care.

They've printed your letter by way of apology and erratum and I spoke to the editor on this a few weeks ago and he told me they were going to be more stringent with their fact checking.

We'll probably get that LW demo on the coverdisk soon and go mental for LW coverage for an issue. Anyone got a good idea for a big 6 page tutorial covering all the new features?

/b

starbase1
01-31-2007, 08:32 AM
Jen, you're just going to have to take my word for it - it was a simple error of omission: a mistake. The 3DW staff are journalists primarily, they're not involved with 3D like we are and they wouldn't even begin to show a bias to certain apps or companies - they just don't care.

They've printed your letter by way of apology and erratum and I spoke to the editor on this a few weeks ago and he told me they were going to be more stringent with their fact checking.

We'll probably get that LW demo on the coverdisk soon and go mental for LW coverage for an issue. Anyone got a good idea for a big 6 page tutorial covering all the new features?

/b

Well, pretty much everyone needs to get to grips with the nodal surfacing, so that is a worthy subject I'd have thought. (And it should be possible to choose a surface that fits with any overarching theme that month!)

Normal maps would also be of interest - and if done in a general manner would also be of interest to other users with different apps.

Nick

jeremyhardin
01-31-2007, 08:36 AM
Indeed. Also, zbrush integration is another good topic for LW and relevant to advancements in 9.

Or maybe data pass creation with nodes (occlusion, reflection occlusion, distance from camera gradients, etc.)

Darth Mole
01-31-2007, 10:37 AM
Anyone got a good idea for a big 6 page tutorial covering all the new features?

/b

Nodes. Get a bunch of people to put forward their nodal set-ups with some explanations. Frankly I'm lost in that thing...

Any help would be worthwhile!

bobakabob
01-31-2007, 10:50 AM
Indeed. Also, zbrush integration is another good topic for LW and relevant to advancements in 9.

Or maybe data pass creation with nodes (occlusion, reflection occlusion, distance from camera gradients, etc.)

Agreed - there are so many brilliant rendering / displacement features and it would be good to see more Zbrush in 3D World.

tyrot
01-31-2007, 01:51 PM
. We're trying to move to a setup where LW is just used for rendering, and we're hoping future releases of modo might replace LW for us. Who knows.
/b

dear ben

why do you hope this?

best

*Pete*
01-31-2007, 03:31 PM
dear ben

why do you hope this?

best


becouse he doesnt know what we know....



from the newsletter:

"Dear LightWavers,

Welcome to 2007 and our first LightWave newsletter of the year. Given everything that has already happened in 2007, I can tell this year is going to fly. We're now on our ninth LightWave v9.2 release to Open Beta and the team is really giving it a run. The new advancements are amazing. The development group is in first stages of a major overhaul of the rendering engine specifically in the areas of global illumination and radiosity including Final Gather. These areas hadn't been touched in years and we're really proud to show it off. You'll see the evidence as you further explore the newsletter."


and there is more that he doesnt know yet..........

jeremyhardin
02-01-2007, 03:19 AM
Anyone got a good idea for a big 6 page tutorial covering all the new features?

/b

Someone asked a great question here (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=490770#post490770) about automating render pass switching by using logic nodes and multiple shading trees in the node editor. Very interesting. Great for getting users' feet wet with nodal in an applicable way too.

Iain
02-01-2007, 04:19 AM
becouse he doesnt know what we know....

a major overhaul of the rendering engine specifically in the areas of global illumination and radiosity including Final Gather.


and there is more that he doesnt know yet..........

Surely that just backs up what he said. LW for rendering (with a soon to be improved system, no less) and if anything has a better modeller than LW then it's Modo.
XSI for animation-can't argue with that either.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing :hey:

tyrot
02-01-2007, 04:43 AM
dear iain

but he is really hoping to replace LW...What kind of Hope is that?

If MODO couldnt replace LW till this stage, then i am really sorry but it might be very hard to Replace LW with this cycle.

And we all know...The CYCLE of animation improvements will be here soon..So what if ...NewTeam delivers a very decent animation tools, what s gonna happen?

Why a user hopes for changing his beloved tool ...i really dont know. One of those things...

Best

Lightwolf
02-01-2007, 04:48 AM
Why a user hopes for changing his beloved tool ...i really dont know. One of those things...

Because it is just a tool, and not beloved (a term I wouldn't use for any tool really ;) )..

Cheers,
Mike

t4d
02-01-2007, 05:02 AM
dear iain

but he is really hoping to replace LW...What kind of Hope is that?

If MODO couldnt replace LW till this stage, then i am really sorry but it might be very hard to Replace LW with this cycle.

And we all know...The CYCLE of animation improvements will be here soon..So what if ...NewTeam delivers a very decent animation tools, what s gonna happen?

Why a user hopes for changing his beloved tool ...i really dont know. One of those things...

Best

why do you think artists have to use only one software tool and then wave the flag like a madman ? :lightwave

do photoshop artists attack others artists that uses painter as well ? :twak:

Do After effect users flame Digital fusion users when ever they can ? :2guns:

is using Zbrush fine ? if you have Lightwave ? :stumped:

if it is fine,. what do you think of about mudbox users ? :stop:

is this where you would like things to go ? :argue:


this world is freaking me out, it's all too angry for me 8~

tyrot
02-01-2007, 05:08 AM
dear lightwolf

i know you are patrick stewart type of guy...moderation for everything..but that is not for me..

and i totally insist..this is NOT just a tool...And that is totally subjective. But this thread is not about it..moreover there is nothing like THIS tool.

And you may see it like a bunch of codes...but for me that is something i stand with and i am more than happy..at least for me 10 long years.....

I found this TOOL utterly inspiring. More i get inspired (thanks to this cycle) more i get ...in terms of money and all other things..

So i hope , you make an exception just for THIS tool ...and see the wonders for yourself... :) In a year hopefully i will have enough source to prove ..seeing this thing as not a TOOL how changed my life :)
ok ok...

Best


best

Iain
02-01-2007, 05:13 AM
Why a user hopes for changing his beloved tool ...i really dont know. One of those things...

Best

But that's all it is; a tool. It's not your wife. If there is something better and you can afford it, change or, ideally, have both.

Come to think of it, that does work for wives!

Lightwolf
02-01-2007, 05:20 AM
dear lightwolf

i know you are patrick stewart type of guy...moderation for everything..but that is not for me..

Ah, but this is especially for you ;)


and i totally insist..this is NOT just a tool...And that is totally subjective. But this thread is not about it..moreover there is nothing like THIS tool.

That is fine for you. But for others it is just that, a tool to get your work done with. And you slagging them off doesn't help a to get a discussion going at all. It reminds me a lot of the Spanish Inquisition (-> Monty Python) - popping whenever it is least apropritate.
The main difference being that Monty Python are funny ;)


And you may see it like a bunch of codes...but for me that is something i stand with and i am more than happy..at least for me 10 long years.....

Fine for you, but as they say, your mileage may vary.
So, I've used of for 15 years and I still do. I wouldn't marry it though ;)


I found this TOOL utterly inspiring. More i get inspired (thanks to this cycle) more i get ...in terms of money and all other things..

So i hope , you make an exception just for THIS tool ...and see the wonders for yourself... :) In a year hopefully i will have enough source to prove ..seeing this thing as not a TOOL how changed my life :)
ok ok...

Oh my, you start to sound like a religious nutter now ;) Go out more, look at the sunshine, enjoy life. It's too short to spend entirely in front of a programm, be it LW or whatever...

Cheers,
Mike

t4d
02-01-2007, 05:30 AM
Oh my, you start to sound like a religious nutter now ;) Go out more, look at the sunshine, enjoy life. It's too short to spend entirely in front of a programm, be it LW or whatever...

Cheers,
Mike

Yeah get Girl friend, a wife make some kids ( it's FUN =)
OR get a boyfriend I don't care, I hope you can get married what ever you find ( I'm all for equal rights ) :thumbsup:

Get drunk, Party Look at the world instead of trying to rendering it.

Money does not buy happiness ( tho it helps LOL :D )
and lightwave can't render happiness for you.

artist are there to show the 9 to 5'ers what life is about
Not show them how small issues can burn you up inside.

Rest, Relax and enjoy what you do, You have the talent, Not Lightwave.

tyrot
02-01-2007, 05:31 AM
dear walken

i have many many tools...mate.. Many cameras..and 3 cats.But there is one cat i cant simply tell how amazing she is.. So there are cats..and there is that CAT. Lightwave for me is THAT tool. (correction it is not tool)

I dont buy that openminded narrow minded theories.

I have seen some Nato Soldiers in Kosovo, reading Dan Ablan's LW books like a bible. I have seen couple of pages in his pocket and i asked him..."but there is no Lightwave in 500 km radius..you dont even sleep for reading those pages...(we had 3 hours to sleep)"
he said .."i will go back and not lose time for trying those tricks. and it is amazing software it keeps me awake..."

that guy was a hobbyist..

so that tells there are fanboys like me..all over the world....and we are truly fanatic..with some mysterious reason...

or there is something else...

But i am not here to explain something i am so strongly effected by.

More over...CODES are not written by themselves. Some guy writes these codes.. right .

And for me emotional part starts right here. I am supporting NewTeam and their quest. They are doing an amazing task. resurrecting something abandoned.... So i can choose the Coders who i like ..who i admire for the magnitude of their task... No paycheck simply justifies the work that put into Lightwave so far. There must be something deep..But i rather make songs for it.. Writing simply not satisfying me :)

best ...

tyrot
02-01-2007, 05:39 AM
dear stewart and walken

i really tried to be like you...but i couldnt..so let me be myself..and enjoy your tools..i am really enjoying Lightwave in different level..I have met guys like me whereever i go...so there are guys like you and me and happily we are able to share this lovely (excuse me lightwolf) program..

gotta sleep now... i wish you

best moderation on all things.

t4d
02-01-2007, 05:41 AM
dear stewart and walken

i really tried to be like you...but i couldnt..so let me be myself..and enjoy your tools..i am really enjoying with mine..

gotta sleep now... i wish you

best moderation on all things..

I hope you all the best too. Enjoy life however you want too :thumbsup:

kopperdrake
02-01-2007, 05:53 AM
At a risk of getting back on the track we were heading, any more advances on nodes and the new GI solutions as the basis of an article in 3D World?

This is a big deal Ben's talking here and we really shouldn't miss the opportunity to make the most of it. What about a small showcase of how people are using it in pipelines to create great modelling/imagery in the various disciplines? I'm sure people here have some artists that stick in their minds? Architecture, character etc. There are guys who post on here that produce some amazing stuff - let's get it into the mag. If LW's going on the cover then you want imagery inside that's really going to show people what this software can do.

I personally like the idea of a node article but maybe we need to decide once 9.2's released as it sounds like things are happening over there.

kilvano
02-01-2007, 09:14 AM
Anyone got this months 3dworld?

This thread was in the letters page and they strongly deny any bias toward the other packages (while supplying a 10 page supplement with TONNES of Alias software on it). Ok ok...i think it was done by escape studios but still...come on!

The letter of the month was from a person complaining about LW not getting the recognition it deserves in films like the Guardian and others.

At least they are aware of our thoughts. I say...keep moaning and they may even include a good tutorial or two rather than the pissy ones that a novice could whip up.

Iain
02-01-2007, 09:22 AM
The LW Q&As have been awful lately but then if we don't send in interesting queries Ben can't answer them.

Celshader
02-01-2007, 09:34 AM
Jen, you're just going to have to take my word for it - it was a simple error of omission: a mistake. The 3DW staff are journalists primarily, they're not involved with 3D like we are and they wouldn't even begin to show a bias to certain apps or companies - they just don't care.


Well...I counted two separate errors of omission -- two separate mistakes in two separate issues of 3D World. Two mistakes still do not make a good impression on me. However, I will take your word for it that both omissions in both issues were honest mistakes.

-+-

I appreciate that 3D World posted my letter, and (again) I especially appreciate that you have taken the time to post in these forums. I wish you further success with your work and your pipeline.

kilvano
02-01-2007, 09:51 AM
The letter of the month was from a person complaining about LW not getting the recognition it deserves in films like the Guardian and others.

Ah....Jen is Celshader!

It all clicks into place

Celshader
02-01-2007, 10:26 AM
Ah....Jen is Celshader!

It all clicks into place

Yep. For what it's worth, I wasn't complaining to 3D World when I wrote that letter. I have other sources for LightWave information out here, so it doesn't matter to me what 3D World does. However, a friend told me that I should do 3D World the courtesy of letting them know why I did not take them seriously. So, I wrote an email to the magazine, and I included a link to this thread started by kopperdrake and other regular 3D World readers.

I don't know what parts of my letter they actually printed in this month's issue, since I have not yet visited the bookstore to leaf through the issue. Maybe I do come across as someone complaining. Oh, well... :beerchug:

DogBoy
02-01-2007, 12:54 PM
I don't know what parts of my letter they actually printed in this month's issue, since I have not yet visited the bookstore to leaf through the issue. Maybe I do come across as someone complaining. Oh, well... :beerchug:



After scoffing at 3D World for the umpteenth time, someone suggested that I ought to at least write to the magazine and let them know why I do not consider 3DW to be a reliable source of info. So, in fairness, I write this. I haven't read 3DW in years, but 2 incidents occurred in 2006 that caused me to stop taking the mag seriously at all.

The first incident occured this summer. I heard that 3DW had written an article about Digital Domain ("Free Thinking", issue 80). Cool, I know folks working there, good for them. Then I heard that 3DW had listed DDs toolset as "Maya, Houdini, Inferno, 3ds Max & Massive." I didn't list LW as one of the tools, even though LW has been there longer than 3DS Max. Last I heard DD's bread-and-butter is still LW-generated commercials, yet 3DW did not list LW as a DD tool.

My respect for 3DW as an accurate source of information dropped considerably after that, but a recent event sealed my final opinion of the mag. 3DW ran an article about the Guardian [Pre-Viz, issue 84] without one mention of LW. I worked for a year on that project at Flash Film Works. Not only did LW render all of the RealFlow data, but all the other CG stuff was LW too: oceans, ships, helicopters, and cargo, for example. Even if the article was RF-specific, RF does not come with a render engine. So, 3DW should still have mentioned the LW render engine, at least.

Even Next Limit mentioned that LW was used in their Guardian press release, but 3DW left this critical info out completely.

I PMed you their response, as it is their content, but they say that they published your email due to the discussion on these omissions going on online.

They say the article wasn't about DD per se, but about open Source software and that the list was to give a gist of what they use.

the Guardian article was indeed about RF and Fusion CI Studios involvement in solving the issues. They conceed that they should have mentioned LW.

They end by saying your point is that they should be more rigorous in their coverage, but others think there is more involved, and it's seen as being intentional. They mention this thread, but pooh-pooh the idea that they could be biased, saying they have a mission to support CG in all its guises.

P.S. They owe you a copy of Art of the Digital Age, as their letter of the month. Perfect for whacking Dave with when he mumbles "he whos.." in his sleep ;)

Bytehawk
02-01-2007, 01:13 PM
P.S. They owe you a copy of Art of the Digital Age, as their letter of the month. Perfect for whacking Dave with when he mumbles "he whos.." in his sleep

ROFL, I can picture that

Matt
02-01-2007, 05:32 PM
The LW Q&As have been awful lately but then if we don't send in interesting queries Ben can't answer them.

I agree totally, some really naff questions that make LW look plain silly!

I started to think they weren't real questions from real users, but made up ones just to put _something_ in there!

But that's me being paranoid!

:)

JamesCurtis
02-01-2007, 06:58 PM
"I started to think they weren't real questions from real users, but made up ones just to put _something_ in there!" - Matt

I don't know - maybe - but I do doubt it! When 3DW first came out [oh soooo long ago] I had a question on how to do something - which was answered and had the solutiion on the cover CD.

Now, granted this was way back in the 2nd issue! I think it was the first Q&A they did, and I believe Ben answered that one too! It was nice having my name in that issue BTW.

faulknermano
02-01-2007, 08:00 PM
They end by saying your point is that they should be more rigorous in their coverage, but others think there is more involved, and it's seen as being intentional. They mention this thread, but pooh-pooh the idea that they could be biased, saying they have a mission to support CG in all its guises.


such ommission, not of the software (LW), but rather the rendering aspect of the oceans is a such big oversight that being "more rigorous in their coverage" is not going to solve the problem. though i'd hate to pass judgement against those i know nothing about, it still beggars belief. i'm not a journalist, and i'm not a LW fanatic, but when i see a good looking movie i'm always curious to find out what renderer they use, and the new technologies about it, even if it has nothing to do with LW. but if it does, that's even cooler, of course.

Darth Mole
02-02-2007, 12:56 AM
I work at the same company that produces 3D World, and I'd like to stick up for the guys there. The editor Jim Thacker is the most conscientious, hard working bloke I've ever met. Really: ever. He's there when I go in of a morning and he's there when I leave at night. People in 3D think they work hard - they should try their hand at editing niche magazines for a while :-)

It will be paining him immensely that this thread is on here. The guy busts his balls every month to create the highest quality magazine he can, with limited time and resources (it's not exactly a cash cow in business terms and has a meagre full-time staff of just five people).

He can't possibly know the pipeline of every production company and so has to rely on the freelance journalists who cover the story, who in turn have to rely on the information they're given by the studio/FX house. And even 3D journo's can't be aware of every app in use at every company.

I understand that some people think LW is getting rough ride in the mag, and at least this thread has highlighted the issue which should help restore the balance. But please, don't think the team or the editor has any sort of bias: they're just trying to do their job same as everyone here. And, for the most part, I think they do an extraordinary job.

Iain
02-02-2007, 02:39 AM
I work at the same company that produces 3D World, and I'd like to stick up for the guys there. The editor Jim Thacker is the most conscientious, hard working bloke I've ever met. Really: ever. He's there when I go in of a morning and he's there when I leave at night. People in 3D think they work hard - they should try their hand at editing niche magazines for a while :-)


I'll second that. I once entered into correspondence with 3dworld and of the 6 detailed and amusing responses I got, 4 were from Jim Thacker and 2 from Ben Smith.
It's not some big powerful operation but at the same time, that's not our problem and shouldn't be used as an excuse (not that it is, of course).

DogBoy
02-02-2007, 03:46 AM
After my stupid rant (way back on the first page or so), someone on this board stepped up and put me right about Jim.
I still think they are being a bit slack, 'specially regarding Guardian, but sh*t happens. Unfortunately it looks like Jim has now left (or he had someone cover for him this issue), so we'll have to see if the new team changes things at all.

Bens' lack of conviction over LW9 is more disturbing. He sounds like he would like to get rid of LW from his pipeline. That is not someone who should be representing LW (no offense Ben).

I enjoy his stuff, but if he a) can't spare much time, b) is at a loss as to what to cover and c) wants to drop the gig, then we really need to get someone to step up and offer to take over. The question is who could fill his shoes?

DogBoy
02-02-2007, 08:36 AM
Sorry Ben, that was rude :thumbsdow . One area I'd like to see covered is ACT. I saw protons cute li'l anims a while ago, but I haven't seen much done with it since. Can it be used in conjunction with CCTV to do rippling "magic mirror" effects like in the Abyss? or to do wierd zoom effects like a Hybrid of the Esper in Bladerunner and the Computer system in Minority Report?

Celshader
02-02-2007, 09:29 AM
After I emailed that letter to 3D World, I had direct email correspondence with Jim Thracker for a few emails. I'll second Darth Mole's assessment. Jim Thracker came across as nothing less than a solid professional.

He's known about this thread since mid-November, since that is when I wrote the initial email to 3D World.


One area I'd like to see covered is ACT. I saw protons cute li'l anims a while ago, but I haven't seen much done with it since. Can it be used in conjunction with CCTV to do rippling "magic mirror" effects like in the Abyss? or to do wierd zoom effects like a Hybrid of the Esper in Bladerunner and the Computer system in Minority Report?

I think Dave knows how to get the Abyss-cam. I could've sworn it involved the Wood texture applied to the FoV.

-+-

Me, I'm thinking of using APS+displacements for sticky sushi-rice. Dunno if it would work, but the new stuff in 9.2 makes me want to attempt sushi-rice.

bobakabob
02-02-2007, 09:47 AM
3D World did a really good feature of the major 3D apps and their development a couple of years ago.

It would be great if they 'spotlighted' software more often, say with 'behind the scenes' interviews with the Newtek team and pro 'n' amateur Lightwave artists.

3D World could also give greater insight regarding software features + explore how different apps are used together in pipelines from hobbyist workflow to professional pipelines.

DogBoy
02-02-2007, 10:02 AM
I think Dave knows how to get the Abyss-cam. I could've sworn it involved the Wood texture applied to the FoV.

-+-

Me, I'm thinking of using APS+displacements for sticky sushi-rice. Dunno if it would work, but the new stuff in 9.2 makes me want to attempt sushi-rice.

I was thinking about hands like in Brazil (morphs and displacements, wi' some HVs). Hmmmm, sushi, huh? I'd like to see that.

lardbros
02-04-2007, 05:57 AM
I really dont think 3dworld has anything against lightwave per se. Just that it isn't the topdog anymore, by quite a long shot. It is working its way back, but it's going to be a while. I just think they write honest reviews. Who read their review of LW9 and thought "that's a lie" or "that's not true"? I didn't, i thought they were quie kind about some parts, despite not going into much depth on the power of its nodal system. I think they are just being honest, and us lihtwave users find it a bit hard to take. Like someone being negative about your own work!

As said in previous posts... Jim Thacker is a superb editor. I've sent in a stupid email or two, (one was commenting on the half-life 2 image of the main character being on the opposite page as the photo of Jim, and they look SO alike!!!) He replied with a witty response, which i really wasn't expecting... but he must get millions of emails! I think he comes from Devon near dartmoor (or was it exmoor?) so he must be a dude!! :)

Dave Jerrard
02-04-2007, 06:15 AM
Sorry Ben, that was rude :thumbsdow . One area I'd like to see covered is ACT. I saw protons cute li'l anims a while ago, but I haven't seen much done with it since. Can it be used in conjunction with CCTV to do rippling "magic mirror" effects like in the Abyss? or to do wierd zoom effects like a Hybrid of the Esper in Bladerunner and the Computer system in Minority Report?
ACT is a strange beast. There's a lot that can be done with it, but it's a bit of a learning curve as well. For example, I've yet to figure out how to use the time offset controls in it. My experience with it goes as far as using meshes to define fields of view (I made a cool quad-view camera setup that renders four different views in a single frame, each in 1/4 of the image), and texturing the field of view, which can do stuff like that water tentacle vision. Since you can specifically define the field of view for any part of the frame using a 3D mesh, you're pretty much unlimited to what you can do with this thing, excpet maybe depth of field. :)

He Who Isn't Going To Hijack This Thread Any Longer.

Celshader
02-04-2007, 09:35 AM
I really dont think 3dworld has anything against lightwave per se. Just that it isn't the topdog anymore, by quite a long shot. It is working its way back, but it's going to be a while. I just think they write honest reviews. Who read their review of LW9 and thought "that's a lie" or "that's not true"?

As I wrote above, I have no problem with 3D World delivering an accurate review of LightWave. I just had a problem with them omitting any mention of LightWave where one would expect LightWave to get mentioned (a sidebar listing DD's commercial toolset; Guardian article).

However, I accept that those two omissions in two separate issues of 3D World were genuine mistakes.

lardbros
02-04-2007, 09:46 AM
As I wrote above, I have no problem with 3D World delivering an accurate review of LightWave. I just had a problem with them omitting any mention of LightWave where one would expect LightWave to get mentioned (a sidebar listing DD's commercial toolset; Guardian article).

However, I accept that those two omissions in two separate issues of 3D World were genuine mistakes.

Oh, absolutely... i went mental when i saw that they had omitted Lightwave from the Guardian list! I kinda think their excuse isn't really true, they managed to mention others in there.... but i can accept what they said!

Maybe it's a Newtek thing, they don't tend to push their software as much as others do. I have noticed a (MUCH) bigger push with the lw9 release, so i hope this increases. The more publicity, the more users =more money and lots more development. Maybe Newtek finally feel they can boast about the newest features because many of them truly are something new and exciting. Especially as there is now a demo version for everyone to try, it can only get better!!

cresshead
02-14-2007, 12:24 PM
i was in whsmiths today and read your letter...they made no applology what so ever...just lame rice paper thin excuses....i then browsed an article on some cgi film in production with live action/cgi characters...forgot the name of it but there's not a single mention of any 3d app in the whole article....

3d world just smacks of large doeses of 'hack's filling pages with drivel...not detail..no attention given to what their readers actually would like to read about whatsoever....

all the news stuff and features are a waste of ink/paper...some of the reviews are okay but they really need to get back on the ball and fill tha mag with relevent details....

here's my yes/no pass/fail for any article...

1.are you biased toward any app?...if yes...go away...sell some fries.
2. if you cannot add such basic details of apps and procedures used into a feature article then please do not waste my time by printing it..
3.please do not bandwagon...do not 'go with the flow' be a black sheep if you have to.

btw i did not buy the mag and will continue not to buy it unless they become professional about their subject matter.

hey you won a book...hope they didn;t write it!"

cresshead
02-14-2007, 12:30 PM
[please read in a basil fawlty voice]

i would sooner read article full of spelling mistakes and bad grammar from someone who know's about the subject than some university spot ridden upperty no talented dip stick projectile vomiting bad text and information in a £6 magazine that lacks any hope of cultivating or keeping readers.

:D

bobakabob
02-15-2007, 04:59 AM
Hmmm, Basil,

Aren't you being a tiny bit harsh? IMHO 3D World does sound work considering there are so many competing apps out there and they have apologised for the Lightwave ommision. It's a miracle such a niche magazine can be found in a mainstream newsagent like WH Smiths at all and there have been some very good issues of late - the Zbrush Meats Meier coverage was insightful and this month they're giving away Bryce (which for young newcomers to 3D will be a great introduction).

One way the editors could avoid accusations of bias would be to focus more overtly on a major app every month and show off renders, models and animations, interviewing users from professional to hobbyist + dev + marketing teams. It would be interesting to see the many pipeline combinations that exist in professional and award winning 'amateur' productions.

cresshead
02-15-2007, 05:06 AM
i read no appolgy...only excuses that hold as much water a a plastic sive with a hole the size of newyork state punched thru the bottom of it.

they need to actually work at their job and not cruise along...

the arthur and the invisibles is a prime example of how not to write a feature article that just illustrates that they recieved a 'press pack'...laid out some of the nice pictures from it and cut pasted text...oghh the effort that made on that woudln't bring anyone out in a sweat even if they were in death valley.

they seem bent on a mission to not have people read their magazine without shouting out loud ''what a bunch of ******''

cresshead
02-15-2007, 05:51 AM
just to add that not all of 3d world is in need of radical surgery..

the review section is good..read the automatron review..well written.
some of the give away cdrom's are good [my main reason to buy usually]
some of the quick tips/answers to questions are good.

i just fear that 3d world will eventually go the way of:-
1. cgi magazine
2. design4

digit is in a similar mess...tho i can't ususally find a copy on the shelves in my town anyhow...

if you don't adapt and react to the changing situation of how people gather/impart news reviews and features then you on the slope to a
declining readership.

some of my ex students still buy the mag....i only on a great cdrom content buy it...others have stopped altogether 'cause of the lack of depth to articles
and what people really want from a feature article.

my main complaint is of innaccracy, sloppy writing, no feel for the readership and what they would like to read...just has the feel of a typical extended feature dvd...you know a totally cgi film and the extended feature and behind the scenes are..the voice actors and the music....where the F is the animators 'animating'....animatics..tech...models, fx ect....
GRRRRRR.....

idiots.

it's not as though their readership has only a passing interest in 3d is it?....it's called ''3d world''...why don't they get out there and write about it!

if you don't know what apps their using...then don't bother to write an article until you do...

G-Man
07-25-2007, 12:19 PM
I had to write them once to correct them on the fact that the Embassy used Lightwave to render the Citreon commercial. Without any investigation they just stated that it was rendered in Maya with Mental Ray.

Gary Wales
08-01-2007, 08:18 AM
I had to write them once to correct them on the fact that the Embassy used Lightwave to render the Citreon commercial. Without any investigation they just stated that it was rendered in Maya with Mental Ray.

The September issue of 3D world (with Transformers on the cover) has a Tutorial feature on the latest Citroen commercial. They do mention Lightwave as the renderer.

I get the impression that 3D World is loathe to mention Lightwave generally though, which is why I think this issue will be my last one purchased.

I'm sure they'll be crying into their perfect bound spines...

Iain
08-01-2007, 08:37 AM
I stood in Borders last night and read it cover to cover while I waited on my wife.
Much cheaper than buying it and you don't have to be disappointed at the crap models and textures on the cd.

colkai
08-01-2007, 08:54 AM
I've just allowed my subs to expire, simply because I just don't think it's worth it for me anymore. Money better invested in the new Essential LW9 book. :)
(Which by the way is very weighty!)

Aaron_Price
08-02-2007, 07:21 AM
I don't buy computer magazines anymore, I find having the internet you have the information you need right in front of you. Personally I don't think Maya is that popular as it shows its self to be. On Renderosity for example there 2 pages on Maya, 3220 threads and 19168 posts. While Lightwave has 6 pages and 9010 threads with 59484 posts.

Maya maybe more popular perhaps on a industry side but I reckon if you count terms of sales with the general public. Lightwave will probably have a greater level of popularity than Maya.

Personally I have never seen anyone show me a piece of work with Maya that has made me say its better than Lightwave. In fact I have seen pieces of works done in Lightwave that look better than Maya. I suppose it depends on the experience of the user and what that person creates in the choosen software.

I think a lot of the general users who probably use Maya probably have resulted to a cracked trial version or Torrent download of the software due the high price of the software.

I would love to create a trailer for Lightwave to advertise their software if they would let me...

G-Man
08-02-2007, 07:54 AM
Also, you always see smaller shops doing some incredible stuff with Lightwave, which I can't say you see a lot of with a small Maya shop. I just haven't seen someone do something like "Kaze Ghost Warrior" in Maya. Or "405 the Movie" from a few years back done by two people. It says it all that Rythm and Hues has a division called The Box to crank out high quality projects using Lightwave. Why, isn't specialFX in network television dominated by such an awesome program such as Maya instead of Lightwave? You know the answer.

cresshead
08-02-2007, 08:07 AM
3d world did have a really good tutorial recently for mental ray with 3dsmax in a kitchen scene...they also provided the scene [they being the artists who made the scene]...i didn't buy the mag btw...a ex student of mine scanned the tutorial and emailed it to me!... here's my result in max