PDA

View Full Version : why is this so hard to learn?



jream
10-04-2006, 08:23 PM
i tried using lightwave and its so hard to learn.

I converted from 3dsmax because this program is way smoother and i love the way it works.

but the buttons and everything are like 100% backwards compared to what im used to. any guides on switching users or any Good helping tutorials on how the mouse buttons work?

I like right click and it duplicates an object its so weird haha.

3D Kiwi
10-04-2006, 08:32 PM
its just a matter of getting used to it, I have the same problems when i learned max and xsi, Just takes a bit of time that is all.

Look on the newtek sites there are heaps of tuts there, and read the manuel?

serge
10-04-2006, 08:36 PM
i tried using lightwave and its so hard to learn.

I converted from 3dsmax because this program is way smoother and i love the way it works.
:confused:

Ratboy
10-04-2006, 08:48 PM
You must unlearn what you have learned...

Seriously, LW takes a completely different approach to workflow than 3dsmax, and it's going to take some bashing agains the wall to wrap your head around the way LW does things.

SplineGod
10-04-2006, 11:47 PM
i tried using lightwave and its so hard to learn.

I converted from 3dsmax because this program is way smoother and i love the way it works.

but the buttons and everything are like 100% backwards compared to what im used to. any guides on switching users or any Good helping tutorials on how the mouse buttons work?

I like right click and it duplicates an object its so weird haha.

Anythings easy once you know how to use it. :)

meshpig
10-05-2006, 01:37 AM
The beauty of LW is that you can develope a model from a single point through to a finished scene with a consistent and visible logic.

It differs from other progs. in as much as it's oriented to that level of control. Not much is done for you, which is why LW becomes your stalwart.

-I suggest you hang-out in Modeler for a while first, get your head thoroughly around the drawing tools because that's how you deal with Layout later-on.

-You take control of Layout by using "send to layout" in Modeler; make 'em talk to each other!

-But you really need to spend more time figuring Modeler. Layout is easy.

M:)

iconoclasty
10-05-2006, 09:25 AM
I had some headaches when I switched from Max too, but after a bit of learning, I fell in love with LW. I can't imagine working in Max again.

Exception
10-05-2006, 11:18 AM
It took me a week of swearing after I came over from 3DS, and then it suddenly made sense. Layout is easy as snot, so don't worry about that, there's really nothing to it. Modeler has its own very specific logic that is absolutely wonderful, but you just need to 'get' it. I think the secret lies in selection. Use the space bar until it breaks, and learn to use the / key for deselect and " for invert. Try to see the difference in polygon and point modeling. Use the bevel, smooth shift and or multibevel and knife command extensively. Try to stay away from booleans unless you really have to, you don't need them as much in lightwave as in other packages, you can just build stuff by hand.
Layers are really important, they are not like in photoshop, they are actual modeling tools. most complex operations work with a foreground and a background layer, such as booleans, path extrudes, etc.
use the 'n' key to pop up numerical display, which is really handy.

Try out the TAB key for SDS surfaces, flip back and forth, have fun.

I only use 10 modeling tools on a daily basis, in order of importance:

Knife
Bevel
Smooth shift
Merge polygons
Split
Bridge
Rotate
Move
Drag
Drill

These 10 tools, copy and paste, and the selection modes allows you to make absolutely anything.

Good luck!

SplineGod
10-05-2006, 12:09 PM
For the most part LWs interface is uncluttered. The buttons are simple text with the hotkey to the right. If there isnt one you can assign one. Tabs can be moved, exported and imported.

Dan_NT
10-05-2006, 12:50 PM
Alt + F10 - reconfigure (and save or load them) or choose from a list of available preset menus. You can quite literally change everything about your interface. If you want "Cut" to be under the "File" menu instead and be called "Scissor" you can do that, every bit of that layout can be how you want it.

Alt + F9 - reconfigure keys: if you want your new "Scissor" operation to be Ctrl + Shift + L, you can do that. Or if you don't want it to be anything at all... you can do that too.

Just another nifty feature to make you comfy, someone could even have a 3DSMax button layout already made for users that like the configuration. Point is that if you can't get used to LightWave's button layout and want to stick with what you know then the means to do so are readily available for you.

Wonderpup
10-05-2006, 04:55 PM
The thing that confused (and annoyed) me most at first was the fact that all animation in Lightwave is via envelopes- so, you want to animate anything and bam! You're dealing with function curves from the start.

But once you get to know your way around the tools a bit, you realise how much faster this way is- want to change an envelope, just hit 'E' and your right there, no scrolling through lists to get at your curves.

Give it a couple of weeks and I guarantee you will never want to go back!

Snosrap
10-05-2006, 07:06 PM
I only use 10 modeling tools on a daily basis, in order of importance:

Knife
Bevel
Smooth shift
Merge polygons
Split
Bridge
Rotate
Move
Drag
Drill


Good luck!
What, no Bandsaw Pro or Multi-shift? Egads!

Snos

toby
10-06-2006, 01:43 AM
I had some headaches when I switched from Max too, but after a bit of learning, I fell in love with LW. I can't imagine working in Max again.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard that!
The most painful thing about learning LW for me was trying to figure out what kind of alien freak would design software like Max!!

Definitely, definitely come ask us with any Max -> Lightwave confusion, a lot of us know both ways of thinking.

oDDity
10-06-2006, 02:19 AM
I only use 10 modeling tools on a daily basis, in order of importance:

Knife
Bevel
Smooth shift
Merge polygons
Split
Bridge
Rotate
Move
Drag
Drill

These 10 tools, copy and paste, and the selection modes allows you to make absolutely anything.

Good luck!

What the **** are you modeling? Boxes?

Captain Obvious
10-06-2006, 05:58 AM
What the **** are you modeling? Boxes?
You'd think that would be obvious enough, what with the "We're crap at everything. Except Architecture, Design, Architectural Visualisation"...

At any rate, I don't see your point. I use about the same tools as Exception most of the time (a few differences, though, since all my work is done in modo), and I model everything from houses to waterslides to kitchenware. Both hard polygonal modeling and subdivision surface modeling. Bevel, knife, bridge and transforms cover 90% of what I do, regardless of what it is.

Exception
10-06-2006, 06:11 AM
What the **** are you modeling? Boxes?

Perhaps take a look at www.except.nl


What, no Bandsaw Pro or Multi-shift? Egads!

Nope, don't like those two.
I use some other tools, but not on a daily basis.
Dodgy's inversebridge and polygon divide tools are growing in popularity with me too though.

starbase1
10-06-2006, 06:39 AM
When I got started back in LW 5.6 I found it just amazingly difficult to learn, definitely the toughest ever. (and at the tme I was used to modelling by equation ion PovRay). It was about a year before I got something that was not embarrassingly crap, and I'm not easily embarrassed...

A big part of the problem I found was that there were just so many things to learn before you could produce anything. Layout was OK but modeller...

99.9% of my modelling was done with one function. Load.

I think it started to get better once I got the hang of making OK planets - I studied astronomy at Uni. This did not require a comoplicated setting, and with only a few surfaces to worry about, I could concentrate on them.

The next stage was the awesome Ron Thornton training video on making spaceships. It was not just the spaceships, again and again I had to rewind to watch and see which magic button he pressed, to do the most mundane things.

I think it is a whole load better these days - the documentration was dire back then, but is pretty good now. The preset panel was also a major leap forward in usability.

Nick

Captain Obvious
10-06-2006, 07:41 AM
Nope, don't like those two.
How can you not love Bandsaw? :confused:

Okay, it's a bit rough around the edges (Get it? Around the edges!), but it's oh-so-useful, in my opinion.

oDDity
10-06-2006, 03:53 PM
Perhaps take a look at www.except.nl



Nope, don't like those two.
I use some other tools, but not on a daily basis.
Dodgy's inversebridge and polygon divide tools are growing in popularity with me too though.

NO organics. That explains the lack of my most used tools, such as spin quads, add edges, dragnet, bandsaw pro, extender plus and select loop.

Exception
10-06-2006, 04:25 PM
Yup, organics are for softies.

oDDity
10-07-2006, 03:31 AM
No, organics are for people with talent. My 8 year old nephew can model a house. It requires no knowledge, study, artistic ability or tehcnical skill whatsoever.
Stick two boxes on top of each other, cut a few holes for windows and doors = a house. No wonder you only have to use move, bevel and drill.
You could write a simple script to do that for you, and go and play golf or something.

Darth Mole
10-07-2006, 03:41 AM
Ah, I nearly fell for that one. You're kidding aren't you? I think the mods should put a smiley face at the end of all your posts...

God knows you need one.

starbase1
10-07-2006, 04:29 AM
No, organics are for people with talent. My 8 year old nephew can model a house. It requires no knowledge, study, artistic ability or tehcnical skill whatsoever.
Stick two boxes on top of each other, cut a few holes for windows and doors = a house. No wonder you only have to use move, bevel and drill.
You could write a simple script to do that for you, and go and play golf or something.

Golf requires no skill.
Pair of Rupert the Bear trousers, knock a ball in a hole, go home.

Lightwolf
10-07-2006, 04:56 AM
Golf requires no skill.
Pair of Rupert the Bear trousers, knock a ball in a hole, go home.
:lol:
*owned* as the :l33t: would say ;)

Cheers,
Mike

P.S. I wonder what tools people used for organics way back before "spin quads, add edges, dragnet, bandsaw pro, extender plus and select loop" existed.
<sarcasm>
Truly, using the current tools, organics must be a breeze compared to back then - no skill required now either ;)
</sarcasm>

iconoclasty
10-07-2006, 07:17 AM
oh god. We're not really ripping into each other about what KINDS of things we're modelling now are we? So long as it's not a chrome ball floating over ripply watter, who cares?

Captain Obvious
10-07-2006, 07:20 AM
I wonder what tools people used for organics way back before "spin quads, add edges, dragnet, bandsaw pro, extender plus and select loop" existed.
They used NURBS, obviously! :thumbsup:


And those chrome balls are pretty challenging!

randomnumbers
10-07-2006, 07:29 AM
So long as it's not a chrome ball floating over ripply watter, who cares?

Boy am I glad I read that before making my latest post to the gallery.
That would've been embarrassing for sure..

Exception
10-07-2006, 09:18 AM
No, organics are for people with talent.

Talented people, softies, same lot.

Nicolas Jordan
10-07-2006, 10:20 AM
It was slow going when I started out with Lightwave 6.0 after taking a course in Softimage(levels 1 & 2). I found it difficuilt coming from a Softimage background and going to Lightwave. I got one of Dan Ablan Books(Inside Lightwave 6) and it brought me up to speed very quickly. I recommend any of Dan Ablan Inside Lightwave books for Lightwave begginers! :thumbsup:

starbase1
10-07-2006, 12:39 PM
oh god. We're not really ripping into each other about what KINDS of things we're modelling now are we? So long as it's not a chrome ball floating over ripply watter, who cares?

Quite seriously, I'd love to see what people could do these says with that theme - the crystal ball on a chessboard could be made truly brilliant with the right setting...

Nick

mjcrawford
10-07-2006, 01:06 PM
No, organics are for people with talent. My 8 year old nephew can model a house. It requires no knowledge, study, artistic ability or tehcnical skill whatsoever.
Stick two boxes on top of each other, cut a few holes for windows and doors = a house. No wonder you only have to use move, bevel and drill.
You could write a simple script to do that for you, and go and play golf or something.

You underestamate the beauty of good hard body modeling. I don't think that organics requires any more or less talent than hard body, just a differant artistic approch. Sure you could do your little script to create a house, but it would be the lameist house I have ever seen. To do a great house model requires a lot of attention to detail and exact mesurements. You are excellant at organic models, but do not belittle those that prefer more technical modeling to your works of art... we are all 3d'ers here and there is no need to insult one group... after all, Jar JAr was organic.. and how many people like him more than the cool space ships in star wars? :D

oDDity
10-08-2006, 05:30 AM
I do arch viz stuff as well, and can tesitfy (in court of necessary) to how easy it is - in fact, 'boring' is the word I would use. SO I guess it is more difficult in as much as I find it hard to concentrate and do good work while bored.

toby
10-08-2006, 01:57 PM
I find it hard to concentrate and do good work while bored.
That's Modeling in a nutshell :sleeping:

Stooch
10-08-2006, 02:54 PM
I do arch viz stuff as well, and can tesitfy (in court of necessary) to how easy it is - in fact, 'boring' is the word I would use. SO I guess it is more difficult in as much as I find it hard to concentrate and do good work while bored.

If your mental development didnt take a back seat to your 3D career - you might have learned to keep your mouth shut before saying something stupid and driving people away in droves. Often hard bodies require SDS modeling, and all SDS modeling is the same difficulty IMO, the only difference is how sharp your creases are.

Sekhar
10-08-2006, 05:04 PM
I do arch viz stuff as well, and can tesitfy (in court of necessary) to how easy it is - in fact, 'boring' is the word I would use. SO I guess it is more difficult in as much as I find it hard to concentrate and do good work while bored.
Just went to your site...amazing stuff! Characters of course, but also the arch pieces. FYI, the links on your archviz page behave oddly: your home link is broken and the image links pop up a "Forbidden" error on the main page in IE7 (looks like they're trying to open the folder) and show the images on a new tab. Also, I think you meant "faze" on your main page rather than "phase."

Exception
10-09-2006, 12:01 PM
I do arch viz stuff as well, and can tesitfy (in court of necessary) to how easy it is - in fact, 'boring' is the word I would use. SO I guess it is more difficult in as much as I find it hard to concentrate and do good work while bored.


Oddity, you seem to think that good work necessarily needs to be difficult or slow.
That's just one more ill conceived and judgemental attitude to write up in your book.
It's about the idea and the execution of it, it has absolutely nothing to do with the difficulty of the creation.
I work in a 3D modeler because I need to make what is in my mind more tangible. The easier and faster it is, the more time I can spend doing the creative work. Why do you think I use a laser cutter, a waterjet and a 3D printer for architecture? Because it's difficult? No, because it's easy and fast.

Obviously you've never actually designed architecture rather than just modeled it. Talking about 'talent' in modelering is like talking about 'talent' in cutting foam. It's so marginalised, it doesn't even mean anything.

Captain Obvious
10-09-2006, 12:14 PM
Wow, just wow. Oddity, I'm sorry, but you really have no idea how wrong you are.

Oh, by the way: Your images are pretty good. But how long did it take to create them? And did you have to work with a client and/or architect on it, or did you solo it? Etc.