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View Full Version : A little DDR mixed with some CG = Cool (Maybe)



bdmovies
10-02-2006, 10:10 PM
Ok,

I'm an ideas person. I think of as many ideas as I can, now some will be dumb and some will work. SO, that said I was thinking.

Let's all think back to last sunday afternoon on CBS or sunday night on NBC or especially on ESPN on Monday, they all incorporate these nice little motion things in there graphics. I'm talking about mainly when the graphic is already in, normally it's along the border and it's a lighting effect or the nice motion backgrounds.

Is this possible, if so I think this could add some dynamic effects to graphics.

1)Make your nice little DDR w/ whatever little border effects and motionbackgrounds.

2)Put a nice neon green box where your graphic would go.

3)Make your L3's.

4)Put your DDR in.

5)Key over your CG using the nice neon green in the DDR, esentially combining the CG and DDR.

I know it's probably a little more complicated than that, but I'm sure you get the jist. Anyway.... :thumbsup:

PIZAZZ
10-02-2006, 10:20 PM
All you have to do is create your Lower Third's in RTV's which have Alpha and play them out. What you propose would just be a long way around doing something actually pretty simple.

bdmovies
10-02-2006, 10:23 PM
Ok...someone please define RTV...I thought I knew but guess not

kltv
10-02-2006, 10:24 PM
You could also just save the type out of the CG as a PNG, then drop it in a DDR with the background animation and set the CG to overlay. The alpha should punch all the way through and you can key it in the DSK as one big piece. Then you don't have to render out RTVs (but you might want to anyway if you have lots, it would be easier to tell which is which that way.)

Kris

kltv
10-02-2006, 10:27 PM
Ok...someone please define RTV...I thought I knew but guess not

RTV is NewTek's uncompressed video format. It can also contain an alpha channel, which allows the key. The way to do what Jef is suggesting would be to save out your background animation, build your CGs without the background, then combine them in VT-Edit and render out as RTV with alpha. Then import that into the DDR for playback and keying.

Kris

bdmovies
10-02-2006, 10:27 PM
Ok...you lost me setting the CG to overlay. And bump the RTV q

kltv
10-02-2006, 10:29 PM
Ok...you lost me setting the CG to overlay. And bump the RTV q

If I remember right you just click on it and hit the "Y" key. Setting it that way switches them from being a sequence to combining them, if that makes sense...

Kris

bdmovies
10-02-2006, 10:30 PM
Ok...I see what Jeff was saying...and I see what your saying Kris (although I may not understand how)...but can this effect be created if we were using teh l3's for sports...like can I make an L3 that gives the score right b4 there's a break (Btw: what r those called?) would it work with dynamically changing graphics?

kltv
10-02-2006, 10:37 PM
Ok...I see what Jeff was saying...and I see what your saying Kris (although I may not understand how)...but can this effect be created if we were using teh l3's for sports...like can I make an L3 that gives the score right b4 there's a break (Btw: what r those called?) would it work with dynamically changing graphics?

It doesn't. At least not quickly.

It works well for pre-made stuff.

The DDR with the overlay route is the closest to doing it. You could save the project in CG, which should resave the CG png file. But if I remember correctly, the DDR doesn't refresh it and you'd have to re-import the file. That isn't very practical.

Another way might be to use the CG built into VT-Edit. You could go in and change layers there, then play the CG and animation directly from VT-Edit and key that in the DSK. You could even have some cool fly in and animation there. And it would still be updatable on the fly, I think.

Kris

bdmovies
10-02-2006, 11:05 PM
Is the sports skin useable in VT-Edit? I'll try it soon...got to get ready for the v-ball tourney. Really excited, this is a warmup for basketball. I'm gonna try to get it on the web....so hopefully some of you can see it.

kltv
10-02-2006, 11:23 PM
Sorry, it only works on the CG Designer module. I have started on the Volleyball skin by the way. But it is probably another couple weeks away. Best of luck to you on your event! It should be fun. I'd love to see what everybody can do.

Kris

bdmovies
10-03-2006, 10:22 AM
Thanks for the update. The tournament is the 16-20 of this month. So since I still don't have a practical way to use everchanging graphcs with the motion, will my original idea work? If not, I guess I'll just do without the nice things, considering that I will already be completely slammed that week.

kltv
10-03-2006, 10:53 AM
I'm not entirely sure it would. First, I'm not sure the key priority is what you want. If you are chroma keying your CGs in the keyer and playing your animation in the DSK, the animation will be on top of the CGs. So, really you'd need to chroma-key your DDR and key your CGs normally in the DSK, so you could use the scoreboard skins there. That would work.

I'm not sure I'd like switching a show this way though. Using the chroma-keyer steals your preview and key bus to generate the effect. So you have no preview and no transistion effects. You are reduced to a cuts only show. Also, the chroma-keyer only cuts on and off. You can't fade it on and off and you'd have a tough time getting it and the DSK to come on together. You could do it that way, and I like that you are trying to push the system as far as you can, but I'm not sure it would work. Maybe send in a feature request to use looping RTV animations as a background in the CG Designer? Then we'd all be happy!

Kris

kltv
10-03-2006, 10:59 AM
I just had another thought. Perhaps Bob's 3rd Channel plugin could facilitate this? If it takes the incoming alpha channel of the sources coming in to it maybe it could key this for you as one piece. You'd set up the looping background which it already has and the put the CG on the Key bus and you could just leave it full screen. Then that all comes as one piece to the DSK. But, I don't know if it takes that alpha channel. If it does you'd be good to go. Maybe send Bob an e-mail and ask... http://www.bobfx.com

Kris

billmi
10-03-2006, 11:39 AM
As long as you are going to do this on an edge - like a lower third, this is very easy to do. Put your motion background in a DDR, and lay the CG on top of that - and reveal it with a partial fade on the switcher.

For a step by step tutorial, go here:
http://www.newtek.com/vt/tutorials/lowerthird/index.php

To update your scores, you can create a separate CG page for the home team scores, and one for the away scores - with a separate page for each score. If the score is 3 to 5, pull the 3 (home) page and the 5 (away) page and throw them both on the DDR, they will be composited together into your graphic on air.

SBowie
10-03-2006, 01:39 PM
If you're looking for some dedicated live sports utilities, I'd suggest trolling dhomas trenn's stuff - I seem to recall him announcing a plugin specifically aimed at this (apologies to anyone else in the same market who I have overlooked.)

ncsu1
10-03-2006, 03:00 PM
http://www.youngmonkey.ca/hands/Software/index.html

i think that is it.. only downside is they all use aura and have to be on during live production.. which im not really up to doing.. so i use the CG Designer skin instead. (plus $)

bdmovies
10-03-2006, 03:33 PM
I thought about Bob's 3rd channel as well....only problem is our school is unwilling to purchase anymore thigns for the vt. So basically, unless I can swing a donation or *Gift" (birthday = oct5th) I'm outa luck, which sucks, because the 3rd channel was gonna give me the option to do the nice half screens and stuff.

kltv
10-03-2006, 09:10 PM
Well happy almost-birthday!

I guess my advice would be to design a slick still scoreboard graphic, update it live with the scoreboard skin. Stills seem to work for ESPN.

Then, anything else you can build in advance, like name lower thirds or sponsors or anything else that doesn't need to change using After Effects or VT-Edit and render them out as RTV or Uncompressed AVI with alpha channels and play those out of the DDR to the DSK. That would let you still get some slick animation in there (they could even start transparent and fly in) with animated textures on the edges, anything you want.

That gives you the best of both worlds with the least hassle while you are trying to switch a live show.

On a side note, I just attended a demo of Chyron's Duet HyperX character generators. Those are some smoking little machines. Their software lets you import 3D models and add reflections and map text on to it all and it is all rendered in real time by the nVidia graphics card. The coolest thing that they showed was intelligent transitions. The CG is smart enough to know if you are transitioning between the same type of page or a different page and you can design transition effects for those different situations. It is a very cool box. I'd like to see some basic animation show up in the VT CG Designer at some point. Some of it you could do in the VT-Edit side, but the new Chyrons are very impressive.

Kris

UnCommonGrafx
10-03-2006, 09:19 PM
Feature lust is killing me as it is...
However, s'plain what you mean by the below:

I'd like to see some basic animation show up in the VT CG Designer at some point. Some of it you could do in the VT-Edit side, but the new Chyrons are very impressive.

Kris

I only ask because there are animation capabilities there; they just aren't convenient.

bdmovies
10-03-2006, 09:43 PM
Kris, you've seemed to hit the nail on the head. I was thinking and I just don't have time right now to fiddle with that stuff. I'll do the static stuff with the cool motions, and leave the bug normal. My goals for the tourney are:

1) Nice intro in LW
2) Replay transition
3) Build custom templates for bug
4) Build L3 names and other info using cool stuff.
5) Set up web stream
6) Get little things installed
updates to vt
that code that switches from bug to L3 from Kris, (if it's available)
7) Get some audio, 'cause any sport w/o sound just isn't as good.

and yeah...I'm gonna bump my "Live Sports People" question about docs during a show.

kltv
10-03-2006, 10:19 PM
Feature lust is killing me as it is...
However, s'plain what you mean by the below:


I only ask because there are animation capabilities there; they just aren't convenient.

I'm thinking inside the CG Designer of course, not in VT-Edit.

In the simplest form you could add the ability to add a looping RTV with alpha as a background for a CG page. That would save a lot of people the trouble of using VT-Edit to composite and render out animations or trying key them live in a less updatable form using the DDRs or with some combination of keying and switcher wiping that just doesn't work live.

I'd like the the ability to timeline a page. You could add a timeline with the ability to animate elements on and off.... with a "CUE IN" type functionality to roll the effect on tally. I think the potential for this is there with the VT-Edit CG additions if they could be brought over to the designer side. Maybe a new "motion" page type to go with the still, crawl, and roll?

It would be really nice if you could setup a simple dissolve or wipe between pages in the CG designer. We tend to air CGs directly from the CG Designer module because we are constantly updating them. If you could dissolve to the next page instead of cut, that would be very cool. Often we fade the CG out, change the page, then fade it back in just to avoid that cut.

Not that I am expecting NewTek to compete with Chyron, but the Duet demo I saw had some very intelligent stuff going on for page transitions. You could define an effect in, a default state (which could still be animating), and an effect off. You could also define an update effect to execute if you are going to the same type of template page. I don't expect that anytime soon for the VT's CG, but it is a very cool idea.

I'd also like to see an easy way for people to do clocks and countdowns. I've been able to do this with scripting, but it isn't very average user friendly.

Kris