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View Full Version : Bodypaint 2.5 and Lightwave Catmull-Clark Subd not working?



serge
10-02-2006, 10:06 AM
Can anyone confirm this? When load a subpatched object in Bodypaint 2.5 it's okay (subdivided), but a Catmull-Clark object opens as a non-subdivided object, and I can't seem to change that.

BTW, Bodypaint should work fine with Catmull-Clark Subd since Cinema 4D uses that.

gerry_g
10-02-2006, 12:54 PM
Thank you for pointing that out, same problem here.

Mac OS10.4.8 Dual 2.7 G5 LW 9 Bodypaibt 2

Phil
10-02-2006, 01:28 PM
I assume it needs to understand the new object format. It will only load the cage (non-subdivided data) because of this. If the SDK is missing the relevant information, then the blame lies with NewTek (although they may still be tweaking it). Otherwise, Maxon will need to update their LWO loader.

It's irrelevant that the same subdivision principle is used. The data in the file won't be stored the same way.

gerry_g
10-02-2006, 02:10 PM
Actually this has jogged my memory, I read in the BodyPaint manual once that on import of a LW Sub-D object (this would be non Catmull) BodyPaint converts LW Sub-D's to C4D Nurbs, so the kind of Nurbs used are not standard on either Newteks or Maxons side.

serge
10-02-2006, 02:45 PM
same problem here.
Thanks for the confirmation Gerry.

Dammit, the main reason I upgraded to Bodypaint 2.5 is that it supports N-gons. Not much use though when Lightwave's CC-subd's don't work here.


Actually this has jogged my memory, I read in the BodyPaint manual once that on import of a LW Sub-D object (this would be non Catmull) BodyPaint converts LW Sub-D's to C4D Nurbs, so the kind of Nurbs used are not standard on either Newteks or Maxons side.
Yes, you are right. The standard in Cinema and Bodypaint is HyperNURBS.

From the Bodypaint 2.5 manual, here is what they say about sudivided objects:

Type
The old HyperNURBS object (R7) has been combined with the new one, and a new Type has been added: Catmull Clark (N-Gons). Therefore, three types of HyperNURBS are now available.

Linear (R7)
This corresponds to the original (R7) HyperNURBS. N-gons are subdivided correctly. Point, edge and polygon weights are not supported. This type has problems with C-shaped n-gons and does not know how to handle n-gon holes. It generates fewer subdivisions than the Catmull-Clark types.

Catmull-Clark
This corresponds to the HyperNURBS from CINEMA 4D R8.x and R9.0. Subdivision takes place after triangulation. Point, edge and polygon weights are supported. This is the best type to use when exporting the HyperNURBS (or rather its low-poly cage) for use in other programs because it is widely supported and the smoothed object will look approximately the same.

Catmull-Clark (N-Gons)
N-gons are subdivided correctly and weights are supported. However, this type has problems with C-shaped n-gons and does not know how to handle n-gon holes.

serge
10-02-2006, 03:07 PM
....It's irrelevant that the same subdivision principle is used. The data in the file won't be stored the same way.
Yes, that's what I was afraid of.

Guys, if you own Bodypaint please fill out this supportform (http://www.maxoncomputer.com/support_form.asp) on Maxon's site. Maxon is not known for fast bugfixes, however, the more people report this issue, the sooner it might be addressed.

(Oh, also if you don't own Bodypaint drop them an email saying you're interested but not until this problem has been fixed. :p )

For what it's worth, I'll also report it to Newtek, although at the moment they won't give it much priority I'm afraid.

Sensei
10-02-2006, 03:49 PM
You can try hacking..
Get decent file hex/ascii editor and search for "PTCH" or "HCTP" in the all executable files of BodyPaint and DLL extensions.. and change them to "SUBD" or "DBUS"..
Let us know whether worked..
This should make BodyPaint thinking that Catmull-Clark Sub-D are traditional Sub-Patches.. and stop working with Sub-Patches..

Obviously do backup of the all files that you will be changing!

serge
10-02-2006, 04:33 PM
You can try hacking..
I don't know the first thing about hacking so I'd better not do that. If I encounter other problems I wouldn't know whether it was due to these modifications or not. But thank you for the suggestion.

bryphi7
10-02-2006, 04:44 PM
can't you just bring it into bodypaint unpatched, and apply the hypernerbs tag to it in body paint? worked for me...edge weights don't carry over though.

serge
10-02-2006, 05:07 PM
can't you just bring it into bodypaint unpatched, and apply the hypernerbs tag to it in body paint? worked for me...edge weights don't carry over though.
Hmmm that sounds good, however I don't know what you mean... I can add a tag called "HyperNURBS Weight" (although I don't see a tag called "HyperNURBS" as you say), and then I can change subdivision level, but this doesn't change my object in any way.

bryphi7
10-02-2006, 05:24 PM
Give this a shot...

serge
10-02-2006, 05:45 PM
Give this a shot...
Thanks! Yes, that worked, unfortunately without egdeweights as you said. N-gons loaded correctly though. I'll explore further tomorrow. Again, thanks a lot.

Sensei
10-02-2006, 05:45 PM
I don't know the first thing about hacking so I'd better not do that. If I encounter other problems I wouldn't know whether it was due to these modifications or not. But thank you for the suggestion.

That's why I suggested making backup of modified file.. You risk absolutely nothing doing it and can go back if it does not work, so why to not check this? PTCH is just Sub-Patch polygon IFF LWO identifier, and SUBD is Catmull-Clark polygon identifier.. It's like pressing tab in Modeler, switch Sub-D type button in bottom panel and pressing tab again..

serge
10-03-2006, 07:58 AM
Okay, so we have a workaround:

- In Bodypaint add a HyperNURBS objects, and hang the Lightwave object below.
- Add a "phong"-tag so the surface gets smoothed.
- N-gons are treated correctly if the object-type is set to "Catmull-Clark (N-gons)".

As the manual mentions, weights of your CC-object will unfortunately be lost. Let's hope they fix this in the future.

BTW, when you look at Bodypaint's FBX-import settings, there's a option to import weights. I'll have a try and export the object in LW as FBX, load it into Bodypaint and see what happens. If if have any good news I'll post it of course.

Skonk
10-03-2006, 08:10 AM
Catmull Clark is a method of working with subd's in memory and displaying them, it has nothing to do with how the file is actually stored, different implementations will use different file formats and you cant expect a loader for an older file format to work on a new format. Its not newteks fault, the third patry developers need to update their loaders, thats all.

serge
10-04-2006, 09:23 AM
I got an answer from Maxon just now:


Hello Serge,

This is true. We have no importpossibility for catmull-clark at time.
I can't tell you, when it will be available.

Kind regards,
Sandro Wojcik

Technical Support

================= MAXON Computer ==================

DarkLight
10-04-2006, 10:26 AM
Easiest way is to freeze your model and use the fozen version is Bodypaint. Once done just apply your textures to the orignal model.

serge
10-04-2006, 11:02 AM
Easiest way is to freeze your model and use the fozen version is Bodypaint. Once done just apply your textures to the orignal model.
What about the UV-map then? The one from the frozen object will be different than the original.

gerry_g
10-04-2006, 04:51 PM
Just noticed Maxon is hyping 'Body Paint Release Three' and when you look at the Lightwave section, there's a big banner of LW9 in glorious red, whether this means full support or not I can not make out......

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/bodypaint3d/bodypaint3d_e.html

DarkLight
10-04-2006, 05:18 PM
What about the UV-map then? The one from the frozen object will be different than the original.

I normally use the subpatch uv's and i normally find it better to use the frozen object rather than the subd object.

serge
10-06-2006, 02:48 PM
Just noticed Maxon is hyping 'Body Paint Release Three' and when you look at the Lightwave section, there's a big banner of LW9 in glorious red, whether this means full support or not I can not make out......

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/bodypaint3d/bodypaint3d_e.html
That looks hopeful! Also, they can't hide themselves under the fact that Lightwave 9 was released after Bodypaint 2.5.

The new features of BP3 look very nice (especially the LSCM Unwrapping). I will upgrade with or without import-support for Catmull Clark, although I'd really like to see egdeweight support. I'll drop them an email and ask.

serge
10-09-2006, 06:15 AM
:mad:
Bad news. I asked Maxon about Bodypaint 3 and Lightwave Catmull Clark:

Hello Serge,

Sorry, but we have no support for "catmull clark" at the new versions of Lightwave at time.
We have no possibility to convert these elements, and this would be always a problem in the future,
I think.

Kind regards,
Sandro Wojcik

Technical Support

================= MAXON Computer ==================

pumeco
10-09-2006, 08:58 AM
Well, it looks like I'll be sticking with BodyPaint R1 for a while longer 8~