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zardoz
09-25-2006, 06:55 AM
Is there a way to use nodes to connect/relate anything with everything?

I mean: imagine that I modelled an open hand and I want to make a fist. I could have the bones stretch/rotate and link this to some morph in the back of the hand to show the veins/tendons and relate also this to a change in the color of the skin in some areas of the hand...and maybe other relations.

Is this possible with lightwave 9 and the nodes system? do we still have to use expressions to achieve this? can some plugin do this?
In a node window can I get node trees from other parts of the scene, like from some texture or motion? Or do I have to copy a node tree from a texture to then paste it in my motion/anything else and use the result from this node tree? But this way if I change the original one I have to copy it again to where I want it to relate to...

Is my english clear?

tx for reading and for commenting.

Sensei
09-25-2006, 07:45 AM
Generally not possible in current LW architecture, because whatever action you do on nodes can't be immediate done, but must be done by commands passed by Master Handler or Layout Generic.. If it worked with normal functions in globals, without having to issue commands, it can be done.. NewTek programmers can do whatever they want in next releases, but that OTOH break existing tools.. and whatever relied on watching commands like FPrime might not notice changes and not refresh preview..

zardoz
09-26-2006, 03:01 AM
hmmm, ok, but wouldn't be interesting if we could do it the way I say? ;)

Sensei
09-26-2006, 03:11 AM
If I write new 3d application from scratch it will for sure use nodals for everything.. ;) Layer system is obsolete..

Ztreem
09-26-2006, 03:19 AM
Maybe the new stressmap shader is something for you, not node based, but maybe it works anyway.

Phil
09-26-2006, 04:30 AM
Isn't this something like Houdini's workflow? I've never had the inclination to try it, so I could be completely/partially wrong :D

Thomas M.
09-26-2006, 05:19 AM
The stress map needs to become a node. In it's current state it's rather useless.

Cheers
Thomas

manholoz
09-26-2006, 07:15 AM
There is, I believe, a learning edition of Houdini, which I heard uses nodes for absolutely everything.
As to Lightwave, since I am learning how to use it, I am going for using exclusively nodes for the texturing, as this seems the way Lightwave is going, and because I tried node vs non-node, and just found nodes easier to use.

It would be great to completely nodify Lightwave, but I don't see it coming soon, at least not in the 9.x cycle.

Dodgy
09-26-2006, 08:07 AM
The stress map needs to become a node. In it's current state it's rather useless.

Cheers
Thomas

I wouldn't say that....
http://www.dodgy.ghostoutpost.com/Public/StressMapTest.mov

but it would be so much handier to have a node version.

As to everything going nodal, I would say it seems rather easy to implement given how quickly image filters, pixel filters et all node versions have been added by people who only have access to the sdk, and not the core code. Getting all the plugins over to node versions would be key....

SplineGod
09-26-2006, 11:57 AM
Is there a way to use nodes to connect/relate anything with everything?

I mean: imagine that I modelled an open hand and I want to make a fist. I could have the bones stretch/rotate and link this to some morph in the back of the hand to show the veins/tendons and relate also this to a change in the color of the skin in some areas of the hand...and maybe other relations.

Is this possible with lightwave 9 and the nodes system? do we still have to use expressions to achieve this? can some plugin do this?
In a node window can I get node trees from other parts of the scene, like from some texture or motion? Or do I have to copy a node tree from a texture to then paste it in my motion/anything else and use the result from this node tree? But this way if I change the original one I have to copy it again to where I want it to relate to...

Yes you can. You still at this point end up going to the graph editor whether you use nodes or not. You can use expressions or one of several motion modifiers to link the behavior of a channel to another channel.

zardoz
09-27-2006, 03:48 AM
yes. that is true. But I think it would be easier to for example displace the motion of some item using the node system...and in there have a list of all variables in that scene and go the node tree of some texture and pick the bump info (or any other) and just drag an arrow to the y channel of the objects motion. Imagine this object is a car in some bumpy road...I could use the displacement/bump info of that road and link to some morph in the drivers face that shows that he has some pain in is behind when he goes over some big bump in the road. And if this was some kind of cartoon we could also link to some morph or bone rig on the car structure that makes some blob effect. All this from the node system. Linking nodes from textures, motions, morphs, bones, etc.

And without opening the texture nodes, copy the ones you want, open the motion nodes, paste, etc. Just open the motion nodes and have some list of all the used nodes in that scene and drag an arrow from the one you want to the new one and maybe have some normalization node in between to be able to transform data from a texture to a motion or anything else.

pooby
09-27-2006, 07:08 AM
This feature has been requested a few times, so I'm sure it's being considered as a way forward.

SplineGod
09-27-2006, 11:15 AM
Part of the problem of all that is coming up with a way to EASILY tell what is going on. Right now you cant look at a rig and tell what expressions, modifiers etc are applied to it.

Even with nodal, as powerful as it is, it can become difficult to look at some of the flows Ive seen setup JUST to create a texture, and understand whats going on.

pooby
09-27-2006, 12:24 PM
Yes, but it's a lot more complicated to do shading with a nodal system than linking and modifying channels.
It's also a lot clearer than looking at multiple expressions in different locations.

SplineGod
09-27-2006, 12:44 PM
That was my point or two points:
1. Theres no way to look at a rig for example and be able to easily tell whats applied to it (expressions, modifiers, etc). IKBoost rigs indicate exactly whats applied to them at a glance. LW needs some system to easily tell whats applied and whats linked to what.

2. Nodes are powerful but can quickly become overwhelming visually. Throw in new nodes for expressions and whatnot and it would be much worse.

zardoz
09-27-2006, 01:47 PM
What I was suggesting was just a simple aproach to replace the use of expressions and the process of copy/paste things from one place to another, and just link them...when you copy/paste data from one channel to another sometimes you change the source but the goal doesn't refresh until we copy/paste it again...

maybe not a full node thing, but in some envelopes, etc that would be nice.