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3dworks
09-25-2006, 02:18 AM
just wondering what happens to the UB version? two weeks ago it seemed to be 'around the corner'... so, is there any positive signal about a release anytime soon? will there still be an open beta test of this version?

probably a lot of intel macs around are already salivating and dreaming to run a native lightwave :)

markus

Darth Mole
09-25-2006, 04:03 AM
It's all gone very quiet. I think they've lost it... Picture the scene:

Jay Roth strolls in eating a donut.

"So, Chiltsy, how's the UB of LW coming along?"
"All done: I gave it to you the other day."
"No... no you didn't."
"Yes I did - it was on that CD."
"What CD?"
"The CD I gave you."
"I didn't get any CD."
"I gave it to Dave Vrba to give you."
"I ain't seen Dave since Friday."

Dave Vrba enters, hands in pockets, whistling tunelessly.

"Yo! How's the UB coming along Chilton?"
"Where's that CD I gave you?"
"What CD?"
(sigh) "The CD with the UB code on it!"
"When was that?"
"Friday - I handed it over last thing. You said you were seeing Jay so I gave it to you to give to him!"
(Dave rolls his eyes) "Friday - after lunch? I dunno, man, I was pretty stoked! Y'know me and Jay and the guys went to the Flying Saucer on Huebner - that place rocks! Those Mojito's are killer!"
(Jay high-gives Dave) "Whoo! Darn straight - I couldn't stand up the next day. Felt like all my polys were flipped!"
"You all went to the Flying Saucer? Without me...?"
"Well, uh, you were busy and - "

Chuck Baker enters. A chill descends on the room.

(All) "Uh-oh, watch out."

Jay, Dave and Chilton mooch about like they've got stuff to do, whistling, rustling papers and so forth...

Chuck stands in the middle of the room, hands on hips.

"Good day everyone. I hope you're all being productive?"
(All, mumbling) "Uh, yeah, hi Mr Baker."

Embarrased silence.

(Jay checks his watch) "Whoa! Is that the time - management meeting!"

Jay Roth scampers off, glancing at Chilton and stifling a giggle.

Chuck, Dave and Chilton are silent, each one eyeing the other.

(Dave edges towards the door) "Well, can't stand here all day - got all that weird Hastings sh!t to re-write. Catch you later!"

Dave Vrba scoots out the door and pulls a funny face at Chilton on the way out.

Chilton fidgets in his chair uncomfortably.

"So, Chilton - how's the Universal Binary build of the Macintosh OS X version of LightWave 9.0 coming along?"
(Tapping keyboard randomly) "Uh, good. Yeah, thanks, Mr Baker."
"So where is the code located? Is it possible for me to take the aforementioned build and distribute it via our electronic registration system?"
(Mumbling, shrugs shoulders) "Uh, lost it sir. Sorry sir."
"But you stipulated in a verbal agreement with me not 72 hours ago that you'd have it ready for today - so where is it?"
"Gave it to Dave and he's lost it Mr Baker sir."
"Now we don't blame one another here at NewTek, do we Chilton?"
"No sir, sorry sir."
"So what do you say?"
"Uh, the big boys from Luxology stole it off me?"
"That's right - I'll formulate a detailed press release immediately."

Chuck Baker leaves.

Chilton breathes a sigh of relief and picks up his coffee mug to take a swig. It has 'Real Mac Users Do It In The Console' written on the side.

Underneath he spies a silver disc that he's been using as a coaster...

Lightwolf
09-25-2006, 04:14 AM
:lol: nice piece of fiction... I hope ;)

I assume get a first build done, and actually having it tested, compatible and ready for shipping are two different things though.

Cheers,
Mike

Chilton
09-25-2006, 04:41 AM
Hi Darth.

Nice work. But you left out the parts with the girl, the camel, and the Red Ninja.

Lightwolf is correct--we did show this (the UB version) off at SIGGRAPH and WWDC.

We're really close. That's as much as I can say about it right now. I can elaborate, but it only in the sense that I can use a thesaurus. Really close. But I'm not going to put a time stamp on it yet.

-Chilton

nigebabe
09-25-2006, 04:43 AM
Quote from Newtek: "When we'll release it is not a known entity at this time. But it's definitely on the way. The good news is that it's a free upgrade for all LW v9 owners".

This latest response is a definite step backwards from the inititial fanfare from Newtek ref the UB version of Lightwave. Hopefully, it won't be 'another announcement then wait a year routine' because if it is, I am going elsewhere so that I can really use the power of the Mac Pro. In fact, if it is not out by Xmas, then I shall move on to some software that is UB capable and which actually has some stability - there are some great alternatives out there Newtek.

al3d
09-25-2006, 04:48 AM
well...thing is, with newtek, close can mean either 2 weeks..or 9 months...like 9.0's release basicaly..;)

Chilton
09-25-2006, 04:53 AM
Quote from Newtek: "When we'll release it is not a known entity at this time. But it's definitely on the way. The good news is that it's a free upgrade for all LW v9 owners".

This latest response is a definite step backwards from the inititial fanfare from Newtek ref the UB version of Lightwave.

It's okay to quote the source--I said that, yesterday I believe. The Universal Binary is a lot more than just a UB version of 9. Hopefully (because it's not where I want it yet), it will also address most of the concerns that Mac users have had with recent releases of LightWave.


Hopefully, it won't be 'another announcement then wait a year routine'...

It's not. And the earlier announcement wasn't just an announcement, it was a working version of the Universal Binary version of 9. That's different than just saying it would be there at some arbitrary point in the future.

-Chilton

Bog
09-25-2006, 04:53 AM
Ok, the cat's startled and the wifeoid thought I was having a heart attack from that bark of laughter :D

Chilton
09-25-2006, 04:55 AM
well...thing is, with newtek, close can mean either 2 weeks..or 9 months...like 9.0's release basicaly..;)

Anyone remember the red dongle fiasco? That happened largely because we were so excited to have v9 finally finished, that it shipped without adequate testing of all of the components. Granted, that was a really odd problem, but I don't want ANYTHING similar happening for the UB release.

-Chilton

Kuzey
09-25-2006, 05:01 AM
I for one like the fact they are holding onto it....It's better to have a release that's as rock solid as can be :D

But then again I can't use LW9 so I'm fine with any extension :hey:

Kuzey

eidetiken
09-25-2006, 05:17 AM
Personally, I'd like to know what Chilton did with the camel. Hope none of it got on the UB.

Darth Mole
09-25-2006, 05:26 AM
Let's just say he ain't walking so good no more.

(For some reason in my head that sounded like Moe Szyslak speaking)

BazC
09-25-2006, 06:08 AM
well...thing is, with newtek, close can mean either 2 weeks..or 9 months...like 9.0's release basicaly..;)

Well in my experience that is true of most software companies. The only companies that don't experience delays are the ones that keep silent until the product is going out the door!

3dworks
09-25-2006, 07:51 AM
Anyone remember the red dongle fiasco? That happened largely because we were so excited to have v9 finally finished, that it shipped without adequate testing of all of the components. Granted, that was a really odd problem, but I don't want ANYTHING similar happening for the UB release.

-Chilton

ok, then let's wait some more days (?) for the URSB version... (universal, rock solid and binary) :)
will there be an open beta test phase?

markus

TomT
09-25-2006, 10:43 AM
It's all gone very quiet. I think they've lost it... Picture the scene:


Best . . . Development Story . . . ever!
ROTFL!

:lol:

griggsyboy
09-26-2006, 03:47 AM
getting bored now.....

Is it me or am the only one looking at the luxology site, with my nose pressed up against the window leaving a small smudge, especially when i see the UB logo......i'm just saying is all........i run on intel macs everywhere, and not having UB lwave or even a hint of when its coming is becoming...........irritating!

Especially after the RC build of lw9 stages, which i quite enjoyed, at least you had something to play with then!

al3d
09-26-2006, 05:13 AM
I had the same tough...but then i tried modo....not gonna switch apps realy everytime there is a Mac delay..yes..i do have a macpro and can't wait for the UB version..but i mean Modo is actually more expensive then LW....those dudes at Luxology REALY need a lesson in marketing..


getting bored now.....

Is it me or am the only one looking at the luxology site, with my nose pressed up against the window leaving a small smudge, especially when i see the UB logo......i'm just saying is all........i run on intel macs everywhere, and not having UB lwave or even a hint of when its coming is becoming...........irritating!

Especially after the RC build of lw9 stages, which i quite enjoyed, at least you had something to play with then!

griggsyboy
09-26-2006, 05:17 AM
I had the same tough...but then i tried modo....not gonna switch apps realy everytime there is a Mac delay..yes..i do have a macpro and can't wait for the UB version..but i mean Modo is actually more expensive then LW....those dudes at Luxology REALY need a lesson in marketing..

oh i know the price is ludicrous, but i find the modeller more intuitive than modeler.....but its just the complete lack of any product for the UB version, especially considering how much fiddling time we got with LW9!

mike_stening
09-26-2006, 07:29 AM
waiting for the LW UB version is a pain but look at adobe, one of the biggest market players for macs and they still have no sign of UB versions of creative suite or the individual apps, rough time line i have heard is next year so that is a long wait but we can't change and won't due to tha apps being good anyway just darn slow on the intels. though it is annoying when quark have actually got their act together and released a UB version of their software.
grr :cursin:

griggsyboy
09-26-2006, 07:36 AM
yeah i agree with you, my major gripe is not being allowed to play with the beats and release candidates as we were with version 9 - its inconsistent if nothing else!

Largemedium
09-26-2006, 12:32 PM
I think it would be helpful if we would get periodic updates of estimated release. I realize no one wants to commit to a specific date to release the UB, but it would be better to say "it's not done, yet... we will update the progress in two weeks." Then in two weeks, the update is released or we are told to check back in another couple of weeks.

I'd rather be strung along like that instead of being told how wonderful it's going to be, that the release is coming "soon" then going silent until someone asks about it. If I were to do that with a client, I'd never get work with them again! Most clients are understanding if you keep them in the loop, but if you go silent about how you are doing on a project or start giving them vague dates with no follow-up, they get pissy real quick. I'm not saying Newtek (Chilton) isn't upfront on communications... it's just that they/he doesn't take the extra step to keep us informed about progress as it's happening... unless prodded. Though it might not be easy... some of us are like children in the back seat of the station wagon on a cross country trip. "Are we there YET?! How much longer..."

Aside from all that...as a long time lurker on this forum, I do appreciate the otherwise open communication provided by Chilton.

Largemedium
09-26-2006, 12:38 PM
waiting for the LW UB version is a pain but look at adobe, one of the biggest market players for macs and they still have no sign of UB versions of creative suite or the individual apps, rough time line i have heard is next year so that is a long wait but we can't change and won't due to tha apps being good anyway just darn slow on the intels. though it is annoying when quark have actually got their act together and released a UB version of their software.
grr :cursin:

Right, but at least Adobe was upfront about it and said the UB wasn't coming until the next major update. They even gave an aproximate date saying not to expect it until 1st quarter 2007. I think I'd rather know up front that it's taking a long time than to be told "any day now" and having that turn into several weeks or months. It's such a tease! If I know it's going to take a long time, I can plan my purchases accordingly.

Chilton
09-26-2006, 02:49 PM
I'm not saying Newtek (Chilton) isn't upfront on communications... it's just that they/he doesn't take the extra step to keep us informed about progress as it's happening... unless prodded.

Just to clarify, I am not allowed to give specifics on this, or I would. For example, I'd love to tell you that Dave Vrba finished **** ***** **** ***** *** ***** * ************ * ****** ** on the UB version today. But I can't.

On the one hand, you could say it's because management has to make these decisions, not I. On the other hand, you could say it's so we don't give our competition any knowledge of our progress. Or if you have three hands you could say that it's because we don't want to promise a release date, when there are still things (always of an unknown quantity) to do.

But I can tell you that there was a reason I wanted to know what features people wanted in LW, and not just because I pride myself on trivia.

-Chilton

Chilton
09-26-2006, 02:52 PM
Right, but at least Adobe was upfront about it and said the UB wasn't coming until the next major update. They even gave an aproximate date saying not to expect it until 1st quarter 2007. I think I'd rather know up front that it's taking a long time than to be told "any day now" and having that turn into several weeks or months. It's such a tease! If I know it's going to take a long time, I can plan my purchases accordingly.

I think the soonest I've promised this was 2007. And again, it's not my decision to make, and I have no real clairvoyance on this issue. If we end up meeting that expectation, I expect nothing less than complete adoration and possibly new wheels. But if we exceed that expectation, I will expect much, much more. Or at least that people buy the product.

-Chilton

jeremyhardin
09-26-2006, 03:39 PM
Just to clarify, I am not allowed to give specifics on this, or I would. For example, I'd love to tell you that Dave Vrba finished **** ***** **** ***** *** ***** * ************ * ****** ** on the UB version today. But I can't.
<snip>
-Chilton

man Chilton, that Leopard bug is getting worse. ;)

Largemedium
09-26-2006, 11:07 PM
I think the soonest I've promised this was 2007. And again, it's not my decision to make, and I have no real clairvoyance on this issue. If we end up meeting that expectation, I expect nothing less than complete adoration and possibly new wheels. But if we exceed that expectation, I will expect much, much more. Or at least that people buy the product.

-Chilton

Okay Chilton. That's pretty fair on all accounts. I appreciate your participation in this forum and your efforts to keep us all informed. I'll be patient and trust that the development team is doing their best to keep Lightwave moving forward. However, if your just dying to tell someone your secrets... feel free to email me. I promise not to tell anyone! :D

peace

Darth Mole
09-27-2006, 03:30 AM
Serious question: is the relesae of the Mac UB in any way linked to an overall release schedule that includes the Windows (ptui!) version? As in, there'll be a 9.1 version across the board, rather than a 9.0x for Mac then a 9.1 for both platforms?

If so, could we be waiting on the PC release - or is it more likely to be the other way round?

griggsyboy
09-27-2006, 07:20 AM
I think the soonest I've promised this was 2007.
-Chilton

since when is demoing a working version and saying coming soon =2007????....

anyway back to my main gripe, if its up to management to decide what information we're getting at least could they have a consistent policy in regard to the way the open beta programme was handled for lightwave 9 and now the way the release for the UB (vers 9.1 mebbe?) is being surrounded in stone cold silence.


I'd rather be strung along like that instead of being told how wonderful it's going to be, that the release is coming "soon" then going silent until someone asks about it. If I were to do that with a client, I'd never get work with them again! Most clients are understanding if you keep them in the loop, but if you go silent about how you are doing on a project or start giving them vague dates with no follow-up, they get pissy real quick.

I agree entirely, remember, 'we' are your clients, staying cute about release dates given your previous software release development, well it makes me pissy!

Chilton
09-27-2006, 07:43 AM
Serious question: is the relesae of the Mac UB in any way linked to an overall release schedule that includes the Windows (ptui!) version? As in, there'll be a 9.1 version across the board, rather than a 9.0x for Mac then a 9.1 for both platforms?

If so, could we be waiting on the PC release - or is it more likely to be the other way round?

It's not going to be tied to the PC version per se, but keep in mind that for the PC version to ship, they just have to say, "well, we've added enough stuff. Let's ship!" or something like that. They already have the PC version working like it should. For the UB version to ship, we have to make sure it's all working right. The nice thing is, we get all those things they added to the PC version, for free (well, with no additional sweat on my part).

-Chilton

Chilton
09-27-2006, 07:57 AM
since when is demoing a working version and saying coming soon =2007????....


Ah yes, you're starting to read between the lines. When exactly we'll ship is not a known quantity at this time. But we have been showing a working version at WWDC and SIGGRAPH. The speed at which UB issues are being addressed internally is very exciting to me. You see, I'm not the only Mac developer. However, it's still not my decision to say where we are. I can't promise anything, to be honest.


Anyway back to my main gripe, if its up to management to decide what information we're getting at least could they have a consistent policy in regard to the way the open beta programme was handled for lightwave 9 and now the way the release for the UB (vers 9.1 mebbe?) is being surrounded in stone cold silence.


I am not management, and am not sure what we've publicly stated.



I agree entirely, remember, 'we' are your clients, staying cute about release dates given your previous software release development, well it makes me pissy!
Well, I'd love to tell you more. But I can't. So you're going to have to remain pissy for a bit longer. How much longer you ask? Hey, I know that trick!

-Chilton

Chilton
09-27-2006, 09:22 AM
Hi griggsyboy,


anyway back to my main gripe, if its up to management to decide what information we're getting at least could they have a consistent policy in regard to the way the open beta programme was handled for lightwave 9 and now the way the release for the UB (vers 9.1 mebbe?) is being surrounded in stone cold silence.


Good news!

The official word on this is that the Universal Binary version will hit the NewTek LightWave Open Beta program as soon as it's ready. Actually, it appears this is old news, but I was not aware of it, as I've been surfing this forum instead of actually working on the UB version of LightWave.

So I should get back to that... metal windows... ooooh.

-Chilton

griggsyboy
09-27-2006, 09:49 AM
cool, thats good news..........and the date for that is...... ;)

mike_stening
09-27-2006, 09:52 AM
soon i believe :thumbsup:

amigo
09-27-2006, 04:38 PM
Just my 2c on the UB release date and what Chilton said that one reason management would not disclose the date is because of the competition.

IMHO that's a silly reason. Nobody outside LW's user base cares about NT's UB version of LW anyway. Furthermore OS X is not a primary platform for LW nor is it competitive for that matter with any other 3D application - the competitive applications are already out in UB world (modo, C4D).
LW is not competing with Maya on OS X, nor on any other platform for that matter. It simply can't (Maya has far more seats in use) so why would ADSK even care about a release date for LW UB when it's not a "threat" to them. Same goes for Softimage|XSI, it is totally different league and out of competition there as well.

I think NT management should keep users happy as a first priority, they are the ones who pay for LW and keep it afloat. NT is not a publicly traded company, there are no stockholders to appease with promises of lavish revenues or soaring sales. NT simply has a niche market place they have found with a long time devoted user base that are slowly losing faith in the company they have been supporting to many many years.

So what gives NT?

Chilton
09-27-2006, 05:02 PM
Just my 2c on the UB release date and what Chilton said that one reason management would not disclose the date is because of the competition.


To qualify what I'm saying, the reasons behind NewTek policies and decisions are not things I have any say in. I have no idea why they're done the way they are, and haven't really thought about how I'd do it if I had a say in the matter. I really don't have any opinion on the matter. If it's for competitive reasons, hey, I could understand that. So that's one of my guesses. If it's because of some other reason, like someone's Lucky Astrology Mood Ring says not to release public info on the UB version, I honestly wouldn't know.

So I don't know how NT MGMT operates, nor do I care.


IMHO that's a silly reason. Nobody outside LW's user base cares about NT's UB version of LW anyway.


You're assuming that the UB version of LW is exactly like v9. There are some differences.


Furthermore OS X is not a primary platform for LW nor is it competitive for that matter with any other 3D application - the competitive applications are already out in UB world (modo, C4D).


For now, that may be the case.


LW is not competing with Maya on OS X, nor on any other platform for that matter. It simply can't (Maya has far more seats in use)


For now, that may be the case.


so why would ADSK even care about a release date for LW UB when it's not a "threat" to them. Same goes for Softimage|XSI, it is totally different league and out of competition there as well.


It would be foolish for any organization, at any time, to off-hand dismiss others in their field because they do not perceive them as a threat.


NT simply has a niche market place they have found with a long time devoted user base that are slowly losing faith in the company they have been supporting to many many years.

The UB version should be the answer to that problem. But if we ship before it's ready, it will only aggravate an existing problem. The UB version of LW needs to rock, and it will.


So what gives NT?

Interesting question. I don't have an equally interesting answer at this time. I'll let you know what I find out though.

-Chilton

Chuck
09-27-2006, 06:34 PM
yeah i agree with you, my major gripe is not being allowed to play with the beats and release candidates as we were with version 9 - its inconsistent if nothing else!

Development in a given product cycle proceeds for a significant amount of time prior to builds of the new cycle product being made available to our core beta group. Then it proceeds for a significant amount of time with the core beta group receiving builds, but those are not made available to Open Beta. At the time it seems appropriate in the development cycle, builds are then made available to Open Beta. We are maintaining consistency with this practice with our UB development, as we are just not yet at the point in the development of the UB version of LightWave where we would be making builds available for Open Beta. When it is ready for it, it will be made available to Open Beta. While we appreciate the anticipation that many are showing for the UB version, we feel that allowing the development to proceed without the pressure of issuing public estimates is best at this time.

Chuck
09-27-2006, 07:12 PM
I think it would be helpful if we would get periodic updates of estimated release.

It hasn't been our experience that all customers have enjoyed it equally when we tried that practice. ;)


I realize no one wants to commit to a specific date to release the UB, but it would be better to say "it's not done, yet... we will update the progress in two weeks." Then in two weeks, the update is released or we are told to check back in another couple of weeks.

I'd be concerned that communicating it that way sets up a "two-weeks" expectation pretty quickly, and then lots of folks end up more and more frustrated with each time they hear "not yet, check back in two weeks."

In showing UB at SIGGRAPH I understood that our marketing intent would be to stay away from setting up any expectation other than that we have made significant progress, enough to show a technology demonstration, and would pursue our development efforts and release when it is fully ready for the production environment. That was the sum of what we intended to communicate. To quote from our press release: "LightWave for the Intel-based Macintosh is a technology preview; the announcement of availability will be made at a later date."



I'd rather be strung along like that instead of being told how wonderful it's going to be, that the release is coming "soon" then going silent until someone asks about it. If I were to do that with a client, I'd never get work with them again! Most clients are understanding if you keep them in the loop, but if you go silent about how you are doing on a project or start giving them vague dates with no follow-up, they get pissy real quick. I'm not saying Newtek (Chilton) isn't upfront on communications... it's just that they/he doesn't take the extra step to keep us informed about progress as it's happening... unless prodded. Though it might not be easy... some of us are like children in the back seat of the station wagon on a cross country trip. "Are we there YET?! How much longer..."

Aside from all that...as a long time lurker on this forum, I do appreciate the otherwise open communication provided by Chilton.

As quoted above, NewTek communicated that the SIGGRAPH showing was a technology preview, and that we were not ready to announce an availability estimate. Beyond that point, it has never been NewTek's practice to provide a running public commentary on the progress of development. (Open Beta may feel that way, but a lot of development has to happen to reach Open Beta stage, and Open Beta itself is a NDA-covered process, not public.) NewTek provides announcements and shows technology previews at what our marketing and management staff feel are the appropriate times, and between those times staff must typically direct folks who inquire to the most recent announcement and let them know that further information is not available at this time. Chilton and I will certainly pass along the requests for additional information. Marketing and management may not feel that things are yet at the appropriate point for further announcements.

Chuck
09-27-2006, 07:36 PM
I think the soonest I've promised this was 2007.

Oh no! What did I tell you about what happens when we make estimates? Have you forgotten the Murphy Fairy already!?! :foreheads

;)

amigo
09-27-2006, 09:17 PM
Ah Chilton, I wasn't attacking anyone, especially not you, and your responses make me think you went into a defense mode. :)

All I have done is make some observations from the little knowledge of the Industry I posses. They are purely my views alone, while NT management has full right to direct the company at whatever direction they deem fit, I was just trying to reflect on (some of) the user frustrations I have been reading here with regards to LW on the Mac, or in general.

I hope that NT management does not prevent you in the future from openly posting here in the forums. Your posts has always been a pleasant read and in most cases a leading force behind many Mac threads. I for one have never seen you as an official and final word from NT, more like a friend of all users with the inside scoop who's there to listen to our whining, and willing to help.
Nobody should dare saying for example "Chilton said so last week, so where is it now", that would be totally misplaced. Oh well, you know what I mean, or what am trying to say, right? Don't make me go all mushy here ;)

Now on the other hand, if Chuck said something last week ... ok, j/k :)

Chilton
09-27-2006, 10:12 PM
Hi Amigo,

I apologize for sounding defensive. I actually saw an opportunity with your post, and realize I probably conveyed the wrong message there. What I wanted to make clear was that I am not in a position to make ANY management or marketing decisions for NewTek. I AM in a position to make cool Mac software for NewTek.

So if you ask me if I'm going to fix this or that, most likely the answer is a resounding 'yes'. If you ask me if we're going to release it next week, my answer will always be, "I don't really know."

For the visual learners out there, imagine a whale and an eagle, both headed for the shore. My view, as a mere prawn (inside the whale, sacrificing itself to become part of the larger organism), leads me to believe that we're nearing the shore. Chuck, the eagle flying high above the whale, would be in a much better position to determine the distance, speed, and therefore approximate impact time, of said whale. Right now, I suspect the whale is changing its velocity too much for an accurate guesstimate.

I could go on, explaining just how we plan on getting the whale onto the land, and then how we plan on crushing the other sea creatures already beached there, but that might be considered marketing. Again, it's not my place. I'm just improving the whale. If you wanted to request that the whale support drag and drop though, talk to the prawn.

So for those just joining us (which I realize you, Amigo, are not), there is an open line of communication here, straight from you (any user) to us (LightWave Engineering). I'll openly discuss just about anything dealing with LW on the Mac, if you ask nicely.

But I've been asked for a release date quite often recently, and frankly I can't answer that. Most other questions though, I'd be happy to answer.

-Prawn

Darth Mole
09-28-2006, 01:37 AM
Hey, Mac users - how about we all grow some patience and leave the guy to actually finish the UB instead of having to spend time posting bizarre natural history analogies.

Every post Chilton has to reply to is another two minutes later the UB will arrive... (not that some of us don't appreciate it!)

Largemedium
09-28-2006, 01:49 AM
I believe that some of us got overly excited when we assumed that the UB was coming out "any day now" and that led to a bit of over-zealousness (is that a word?). Well, I'm cool with waiting until NT thinks it's ready. Least we have viable options while we wait! Part of having a good relationship is having trust in your partner and I think that's what I'm going to do instead of second guessing or having unrealistic expectations. It's all good.

griggsyboy
09-28-2006, 03:22 AM
well i'm starting to feel just a little bit like a small boy being told off, but i think thats due to the fact i'm scottish which means i come preinstalled with a chip on my shoulder;)

still not entirely clear why a firm date is still hard to give.

but if anyone is interested, found a free workaround, an intel imac with 256mb ati radeon x1600 plus bootcamp 1.1 plus vista rc1 pluslw9 pc = smoking, and all free (bar lightwave obviously).

BazC
09-28-2006, 03:45 AM
still not entirely clear why a firm date is still hard to give.

I think it's just in the nature of software devlopment, you can hope to have a project ready in 2 months then a bug pops up days before release! If I remember rightly 4 3d apps anounced 4th quarter release at Siggraph '05, Lightwave 9, Modo 2, Silo 2 and ZBrush 2.5. They were all months late and ZB still isn't released.

I suspect after seeing all the torches and pitchforks over the delay of LW9 NT are going to be VERY cagey about release dates in future!

Darth Mole
09-28-2006, 07:27 AM
You're not one of those people who STILL think ZBrush 2.5 will ever come out? Surely it's now just an urban myth, a story told to frighten young developers. :D

Griggsy - Can you get updates for that pre-installed chip?

griggsyboy
09-28-2006, 07:28 AM
Griggsy - Can you get updates for that pre-installed chip?

yeah but it redoes the voice algorythmn to make you sound english - never happening!

pantone
09-28-2006, 07:40 AM
I don't get why we hold NT's feet to the fire but not other manufacturers who have also committed to UB but not given any release dates.

Why not crack on:

Adobe
Microsoft
Pixologic
ElectricImage
Autodesk

I think it's great that Maxon and Luxology were quick out of the gate...but the entire Mac pro market seems to be saying the same thing as NT. "We're working on it and don't know when we'll ship."

I have seen more communication comming from NT and Electricimage than the bigger companies.

BazC
09-28-2006, 10:10 AM
You're not one of those people who STILL think ZBrush 2.5 will ever come out? Surely it's now just an urban myth, a story told to frighten young developers. :D


LOL! I've lost interest to be honest, I was really stoked about it when it was first announced (Nov '04!) but now I'll believe it when I see it, if I see a Mac version I STILL won't believe it! :D

Darth Mole
09-28-2006, 10:39 AM
Well I'm bemused by Pixologic's strategy. They've now previewed it at two SIGGRAPHs and there's a burst of info from time to time, but it still feels no nearer to being released.

Given that this is 'only' an interim update, the idea of a ZBrush 3.0 feels at least a decade away...

RonGC
09-28-2006, 06:07 PM
Chilton is the best thing to hit the LWMac forum in a long time so try not to beat him up please. I for one do not want to lose his enthusiasm and feedback around here.

Ron

jeremyhardin
09-28-2006, 06:14 PM
Chilton is the best thing to hit the LWMac forum...

Agreed. :thumbsup:

Yacomo
09-29-2006, 12:30 AM
Agreed. :thumbsup:
/nod

Go Chilton!:)

Darth Mole
09-29-2006, 01:13 AM
Seconded. Er, thirded. Ah, whatever.

frostywd
10-07-2006, 02:21 AM
Although I plan on buying a MacBook Pro (when they release the Duel Core 2) I have a stupid question. As my dual G5 PPC is my primary dev machine ... will the UB run better on the PPC then the current LW9 (better being faster and more stable) release? It just seems that everyone is worried about the Intel Mac's and not speaking much about the gaggle of PPC users still out here. Yes, I will have both platforms but I want to get another year out of this PPC G5. In my case, I care only that Newtek releases the much stated 'rock solid' UB version when it's done. I bought modo 1x and didn't do much with it until 2.x came out. It's fast and stable on my PPC so I have no complaints (other then no fPrime!!!!) and I hope to be able to make the same statement (except with a UB fPrime???? HMMM??) when Clilton is done his work.

John the Geek
10-07-2006, 06:07 AM
Yes, your Dual G5 will be faster and more stable. Stay with that until the UB version comes out.

I'm about to install Windows on my MacBook Pro because Lightwave for Windows runs circles around the Rosetta Mac version. I don't like that idea, but since it's looking like 2007 before I can run it natively in Mac OS X I'm preparing for a long cold winter in Windows XP.

frostywd
10-07-2006, 09:38 AM
Yes, your Dual G5 will be faster and more stable. Stay with that until the UB version comes out.

So it's your opinion that when the UB comes out it will be more stable faster/stable on an IntelMac? I guess what I'm asking is that if LW9 ran perfectly on a PPC (no crashing, etc.) would it run slower and as a UB on a PPC all other things being equal?

John the Geek
10-07-2006, 01:59 PM
So it's your opinion that when the UB comes out it will be more stable faster/stable on an IntelMac? I guess what I'm asking is that if LW9 ran perfectly on a PPC (no crashing, etc.) would it run slower and as a UB on a PPC all other things being equal?

It is my opinion only, that Lightwave runs better currently on PPC hardware. I have not seen any exceptions to this observation. This is not to say that it won't crash at all, there are plenty of threads in here with tips to help prevent crashes (kill the hub, etc.) on any Mac.

When the UB comes out is is my impression, based on observing discussions here from Lightwave Mac programmers, that they intend it to be a bug-fix as well as adding support for Intel Macs. So I presume it will run better all around.

Do I believe that the universal version will be faster on Intel hardware than PPC hardware? Depends on the hardware. I've seen benchmarks that show that if you have the top quad-core G5 you will still outrun a dual-core MacBook Pro. Otherwise and generally, the Intel Macs have the PPCs beat in just about every test.

=)

mike_stening
10-10-2006, 02:59 AM
UB version of other programs tend to run fastrer on both platforms and it would be safe to assume this wuld be the case for lightwave, i certainly hope so as our studio has a mixture of PPC and Intel Macs and lightwave is becomeing more and more of a creative and visual tool in our work set.

Kuzey
10-10-2006, 05:38 AM
I do believe the UB improvements will affect both systems in terms of better performance and I think Chilton said as much in a thread somewhere, someplace :hey:


Unless my mind just made it up :stumped:

Kuzey

CAClark
10-10-2006, 05:42 AM
You made it up man, you're sick in the head! :dance:

Cheers!

P.s. I was told a week ago that we would see the next beat within a month INC. the Ub version, which I for one crave, so that my MBP can render as a workstation, rather than a pocket calculator!

mike_stening
10-10-2006, 05:49 AM
probably right there kuzey as i think thats where i heard it.
got a big job on and the rendering will have to be handled by the PPC quad, not the intels, unless of course by some stroke of magic the UB appears in the next week.:thumbsup:

Kuzey
10-10-2006, 06:07 AM
Now I'm really confused...hang on, let me talk to the other me and we'll get back to you :dance:

Kuzey

Kuzey
10-10-2006, 06:12 AM
Mike, now I'm worried.

You either said I was sick in the head in that last post or I just imagined that too :D


Doctor....Doctor....is there a doctor in the house :help:

Kuzey

mike_stening
10-10-2006, 06:23 AM
lol:D
no was agreeing that it was probably chilton who said it, not that you are sick in the head, not qualified to give that diagnosis. and it would be rich coming from me anyway.:hey:

Kuzey
10-10-2006, 07:00 AM
Ahhh...good to know...I was scared for a minute there :D

Mmmm...I wonder how many bricks Chilton can break with his head....being the master ninja he is :stumped:


Kuzey

mike_stening
10-10-2006, 07:08 AM
well considering he must be a bit of a nutter to come on here and talk to us lot without going mad i would say its as many as he likes. :dance: can't knock him.

maxov
10-11-2006, 02:01 PM
... what happend to the ub version ??? do we get it this year ? ... :-)

Chilton
10-11-2006, 03:04 PM
Hi Kuzey,


I do believe the UB improvements will affect both systems in terms of better performance and I think Chilton said as much in a thread somewhere, someplace :hey:

Kuzey

We're fixing a number of things for the UB version, so yeah, it should run better all around.

Once it's out in the wild, and people start doing benchmarks, we'll see some interesting things. What we'll see is still under wraps, but I think everyone will be happy, even those with PPC hardware.

-Chilton

Chilton
10-11-2006, 03:09 PM
... what happend to the ub version ??? do we get it this year ? ... :-)

Who knows. Oh wait, I knows. It is not my place to put release dates on software, however.

Sorry,
-Chilton

Kurtis
10-11-2006, 03:11 PM
We're not ready to announce an open beta or full release date yet, but trust me, when we do, it will be hard to miss.

juanjgon
10-11-2006, 04:25 PM
nice ;) ... waiting for it ...

Wickster
10-12-2006, 01:10 AM
There better be a fleet of boeing 787s flying up high in the san diego skies, spelling out "LW UB OUT NOW!!!" when you annouce it. :D

mike_stening
10-12-2006, 02:22 AM
well seeing as we have now gone up to v9 and added a new seat i'm kinda getting ichy now, seeing as the intel machine i have definately is slower than the ppc one next to me. though other than that all has been ok so far.:thumbsup:

grc
10-12-2006, 02:46 AM
I am sure everyone is excited about the hopefully faster and more stable UB version of LW, and I can understand that no firm date can be stated.

But surely there could be some info on the sort of speed increases we should be able to expect on UB, just some rough render time percentages?

It is one thing waiting, but if you have an idea on what you are waiting for it makes it a bit easier. It's okay saying it will be worth waiting for, but just a little bit of tech detail on the speed department?

ingo
10-12-2006, 03:02 AM
I am sure everyone is excited about the hopefully faster and more stable UB version of LW, and I can understand that no firm date can be stated.....

Exited about a simple platform change, hmm, i am not sure. And i can't understand why there can be no firm date for the release. When my clients ask me when the renderings will be ready and i answer with a dumb "...its ready whenever i think its ready..." than sooner or later i have no clients anymore.

grc
10-12-2006, 03:31 AM
Is it just that, a simple platform change? Or can we expect some real speed advantages!
If not then why not install the Winows version, can this not run native on the Intel Macs?

Kuzey
10-12-2006, 03:55 AM
When my clients ask me when the renderings will be ready and i answer with a dumb "...its ready whenever i think its ready..." than sooner or later i have no clients anymore.

Rendering and writing code are two very different things :D

So the above statement should be more like:

The render wil be done in a week but first I got to build the program to do it :D

Kuzey

Kuzey
10-12-2006, 04:02 AM
Is it just that, a simple platform change? Or can we expect some real speed advantages!
If not then why not install the Winows version, can this not run native on the Intel Macs?


If it was a simple platform change it would have been out months ago :D
The UB version is getting Mac only features added like Applescript and what not...so it's going to be super cool.

But it would be interesting to see how the UB version does compared to the windows version on intelMacs .

Kuzey

John the Geek
10-12-2006, 02:12 PM
So... As a fairly new LW-9 user... What's this OpenBeta program and how do I sign up once the UB is out?

=)

Kurtis
10-12-2006, 02:25 PM
When it happens, we'll announce it and post steps, but as a recap...

You'll have to be a registered owner of LightWave v9.
You'll have to agree to a Non Disclosure Agreement that says you don't talk about Fight Club... I mean publicly discuss Open Beta (yeah, that's it), until NewTek says.
You'll discuss the use of the open beta software on a special private forum while under NDA.

Qslugs
10-16-2006, 08:24 PM
So what if you just bought a mac pro and have the windows version of Lightave? Will this still apply? I am assuming so since LW works on mac and window platform, whichever one has the dongle installed.

Chilton
10-16-2006, 09:20 PM
Yeah, that's fine. As long as you have a v9 release of LightWave, you'll get the UB version free.

-Chilton

Audiodacious
11-13-2006, 04:57 PM
When I bought LW9 a month or so ago I was assured the universal app would be very soon, we were talking weeks rather than months. To find it's not here still is dissapointing to say the least. Slow rendering on an intel mac makes it unbearable and I've gone back to using Blender for the moment :(

I've tried looking at the Open Beta pages but I only see a PowerPC beta download, is the universal in beta yet ?

al3d
11-13-2006, 05:06 PM
When I bought LW9 a month or so ago I was assured the universal app would be very soon, we were talking weeks rather than months. To find it's not here still is dissapointing to say the least. Slow rendering on an intel mac makes it unbearable and I've gone back to using Blender for the moment :(

I've tried looking at the Open Beta pages but I only see a PowerPC beta download, is the universal in beta yet ?

never beleive the release date any software company gives you realy..it's not their fault doh..to many things can happen so it always get delayed...9.0 was delayed what...7 or 8 months?

Morbius
11-13-2006, 05:38 PM
I'll take a wild guess here and say it won't be till next year. Of course giving that we have only a month and a half left full of holidays that's not really a revolutionary idea.

Chilton
11-13-2006, 06:46 PM
When I bought LW9 a month or so ago I was assured the universal app would be very soon, we were talking weeks rather than months.


The Universal Binary's exact launch date is an unknown. The simple reason for this is that writing software is hard. Also, there is a considerable difference between releasing a Universal Binary and releasing a good Universal Binary, and we are trying to make sure LightWave is the latter.


I've tried looking at the Open Beta pages but I only see a PowerPC beta download, is the universal in beta yet ?

No, it is not there yet. When it does get to that stage though, it will be released via the Open Beta system people are participating in now. And some of the underlying UB version's architecture is in the PPC version people are testing now, but they probably haven't noticed.

-Chilton

Scazzino
11-13-2006, 06:48 PM
I'm still hoping for a Xmas gift... ;)

ScottSullivan
11-13-2006, 08:49 PM
Christmas gift? I'm hoping for a Thanksgiving gift! Then we can all chip in and buy Chilton a turkey!

___mats___
11-13-2006, 09:27 PM
While we await the UB version, I have a question :

I know there have been major updates and the code has been reworked.(thats what I understand)

My question is, will the UB version be compatible with the PC version as well? for instance, I have a renderfarm commander render farm with both PC and Mac nodes, while there are some issues rendering some fractal textures that compute differently, will there be any major change to the way the render is computed in the new UB version that will make the PC nodes useless or at least not compatible?

just a questions,

thanks for the hard work on the UB version

Chilton
11-13-2006, 09:47 PM
Hi Matt,

A large part of the time that is going into this version is compatibility testing. So yes, by design, the UB version should be as compatible as the current CFM version in this regard.

-Chilton