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dranos
09-24-2006, 09:09 PM
Ok so I just bought a new MacBook Pro 2.0 GHz and a MacPro 2.66 GHz and they both run slower that my previous 1.8DP G5 Power Mac all running Lightwave 8.5 on OS X 10.4.7.
My Macbook Pro has this setup:
2.0 Intel Duo Core, 100GB HD, 1GB RAM & a 256MB Video Card (dont ask how I got that config)
My MacPro has this setup:
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeons, 1GB RAM, 256MB NVIDIA Video Card (the suggested config)
My G5 has this setup:
1.8GHz DP G5, 2GB RAM & a 64MB Radeon Video Card

I did a render test of the scene file "BoxxBotSample.lws" with raytrace shadows & reflections enabled along with Classic low antialiasing.
My old G5 did it in 6.8 secs
The MacPro - 8.9 secs (when set to 4 threads, 9.0 secs when set to 2 threads)
The MacBook Pro - 18.xx secs
Ironically running Windows on BootCamp I was able to render the same scene in 6.7 secs on the MacBook Pro.
My brother's iMac 2.1GHz G5 did it in 6.6 secs.

Is this normal? These machines are a few generations ahead of my old one, I'd think that even with Rosetta they'd be faster.
What gives?

Chilton
09-24-2006, 09:31 PM
Hi Dranos,

Rosetta emulation is *really* good, but nothing beats native platform code. The UB version of LightWave will make this obvious.

When we'll release it is not a known entity at this time. But it's definitely on the way. The good news is that it's a free upgrade for all LW v9 owners.

-Chilton

dranos
09-24-2006, 09:36 PM
Thanks for the quick response however I have another question. How do I go about getting another dongle for my new MacPro and how do I solve the dongle/license key issue in Windows?

Thanks

avkills
09-25-2006, 12:13 AM
The Windows version will have a different license key, I think you re-register and you will get a new one.

-mark

rakker16mm
09-25-2006, 12:27 AM
Hi Dranos,

Rosetta emulation is *really* good, but nothing beats native platform code. The UB version of LightWave will make this obvious.

When we'll release it is not a known entity at this time. But it's definitely on the way. The good news is that it's a free upgrade for all LW v9 owners.

-Chilton

:hey: Will the UB version of LW v9 be true 64 bit? I'm using LW 8.5 a Dual 2 GHz G5. I will be upgrading soon, but it seems a shame to have 64 bit capability in the hardware if it can't run 64 bit software. On the other hand, since Apple isn't making any more Dual G5, I can imagine it would not be the highest priority. I just want to know if I am out of luck. :D

BazC
09-25-2006, 12:46 AM
:hey: Will the UB version of LW v9 be true 64 bit? I'm using LW 8.5 a Dual 2 GHz G5. I will be upgrading soon, but it seems a shame to have 64 bit capability in the hardware if it can't run 64 bit software. On the other hand, since Apple isn't making any more Dual G5, I can imagine it would not be the highest priority. I just want to know if I am out of luck. :D

OSX won't be true 64 bit untill 10.5 Leopard (release spring 07?) so don't expect 64 bt Lightwave before then, it would be pointless

avkills
09-25-2006, 01:14 AM
I hope it is a priority, I could use the extra memory allocation it will provide; however BazC is correct in that it will not happen until OS X goes fully 64bit.

The re-compile should be fairly painless I suspect once the UB version is done. Maybe Chilton can elaborate.

-mark

Chilton
09-25-2006, 04:33 AM
I hope it is a priority, I could use the extra memory allocation it will provide; however BazC is correct in that it will not happen until OS X goes fully 64bit.

The re-compile should be fairly painless I suspect once the UB version is done. Maybe Chilton can elaborate.

-mark

Actually, I can't elaborate too much here right now. Much of how Leopard works, and what it takes to get an app to 64-bit, are still under NDA.

While it would be nice if this only required a recompile, the truth is that it's only that easy for the simplest of applications. The UI is only 64-bit for a (fairly small) subset of the APIs that Apple offers.

Don't get me wrong--I'm glad they did this for Leopard. But if an app is doing any real number crunching, there is still quite a bit of work left to do. And we do a lot of number crunching.

-Chilton

dranos
09-25-2006, 07:08 AM
Is there any reason my MacBook Pro is so slow compared to the other machines? I got it to render the same scene in 15.xx secs when I used 2 threads. That is still much to slow dont you think?
I would still like to know how to get an extra Dongle.
Help

mike_stening
09-25-2006, 07:13 AM
want to upgrade due to having 4 macs nicked here at work, one of which was my G5 quad, want to get the upgrade but will have to wait for the UB version to convince the bods that its worth the outlay, not even tried running LW on this intel machine yet, and not looking forward to it if it is slow, still installing all my stuff too :thumbsdow

avkills
09-25-2006, 10:53 AM
Is there any reason my MacBook Pro is so slow compared to the other machines? I got it to render the same scene in 15.xx secs when I used 2 threads. That is still much to slow dont you think?
I would still like to know how to get an extra Dongle.
Help

Umm, unless you are running it under Windows with BootCamp then it will be slow because it is being run under emulation.

-mark

Glendalough
09-25-2006, 10:54 AM
Is there any reason my MacBook Pro is so slow compared to the other machines? I got it to render the same scene in 15.xx secs when I used 2 threads. That is still much to slow dont you think?
I would still like to know how to get an extra Dongle.
Help

Hi Dranos,

No one seems to be answering you. I think your new intel macs need more ram. I would say 1GB is about minimum for the intels, they are really unbelievably slow with a few rosetta enabled programs open; this compared to a PPC which would zoom along with same amount of ram.

About the dongle, all the newer ones work on both Mac and Windows. You can go to your account at newtek, or open one if you don't have, I believe. Here you will get the Windows License no. you need. (to enable running LW in Windows)

dranos
09-25-2006, 06:43 PM
Thanks. I hope that helps even a little bit. I planned to buy ram from Crucial after the machines landed. Its too expensive to add ram while configuring the machines. Still, both the MacBook and the MacPro have 1GIG but the MacBook is still twice as slow. Why?

dranos
09-25-2006, 06:51 PM
Umm, unless you are running it under Windows with BootCamp then it will be slow because it is being run under emulation.

-mark

Actually as I said its much faster in bootcamp on Windows (6.6 secs). In Mac OS it does it in 15.xx.

avkills
09-25-2006, 07:13 PM
Well the MacPro does have 4 logical CPU cores, could be why it is faster.

-mark

rakker16mm
09-26-2006, 12:18 PM
OSX won't be true 64 bit untill 10.5 Leopard (release spring 07?) so don't expect 64 bt Lightwave before then, it would be pointless

I'm sorry my question wasn't clear. My question really is not about when there will be a 64 bit version for Mac but when it does come out will it be able to run on a G5 as opposed to an Intel Mac.

avkills
09-26-2006, 01:54 PM
I'm sorry my question wasn't clear. My question really is not about when there will be a 64 bit version for Mac but when it does come out will it be able to run on a G5 as opposed to an Intel Mac.

I don't see why not, so long as Leopard runs on it. After all, the G5 is a true 64bit CPU.

-mark

Chilton
09-26-2006, 02:31 PM
avkills is correct. The 64-bit version of LightWave will run on a G5.

BazC
09-26-2006, 02:33 PM
Yes I would think it will run on a G5. I wouldn't get too excited though, firstly 64bit OSX is at least 6 months off, probably more. 64bit Lightwave for OSX may come some while after that. Once you have Leopard and 64bit Lightwave installed are you going to notice much difference? Probably not! From what I understand the biggest advantage of 64bit apps/OS is the ability to use more RAM. Unless you are already reaching the RAM limits of OSX (What is it 4 gigs per app?) you unlikely to see any radical change in performance.

Captain Obvious
09-26-2006, 02:56 PM
I would just like to point out that 64-bit on the Mac is MUCH less of a deal than on Windows. The 32-bit Mac version of Lightwave can already allocate as much as 8 gigabytes of RAM (4 for Layout 4 for Modeler, and technically another 4 for the hub). The 32-bit version of Windows cannot allocate more than 2 or 3 gigabytes. Additionally, Mac apps always seem to be more RAM efficient. According to Worley, Fprime can render higher res with the same amount of RAM on a Mac than on Windows.

dglidden
10-01-2006, 07:29 PM
Actually as I said its much faster in bootcamp on Windows (6.6 secs). In Mac OS it does it in 15.xx.

Just because you don't seem to fully understand the answer you've been given, I'll try to explain:

The new Mac lineup use all Intel processors. This is a major step away from what Mac has done for years, which has been to use the PowerPC processors. Lightwave currently is compiled for Mac to use the PowerPC instruction set. When you buy a MacPro or a Macbook Pro or a new iMac, you are getting a Mac that uses an Intel processor. To overcome the obstacle that very likely most Mac software will take some time to be ported from using PowerPC to using Intel, Apple developed a technology called "Rosetta" that EMULATES a PowerPC on the new Intel Macs. Emulation is much, much slower than using native code for the same app. When you boot WinXP on your Mac using BootCamp, you are running Lightwave in native code.

The other half of your question is why the Macbook is much slower than the MacPro. Well, that's just because the MacPro uses a much beefier Intel CPU than the MacBook, so emulation will be faster, relatively.

When the UB version of LW is released, I imagine it will really scream on the new Intel macs.

harrio
10-01-2006, 08:42 PM
drano,
how did you get lw9 to run on your mbp? i have a mbp 17/2.16 and i can't even get it to run under rosetta. i don't care about speed right now because i know the ub is on the way. i just want to be able to work through my signature course tutorial.

Chilton
10-01-2006, 08:49 PM
Hi harrio,

Ack! I wasn't aware anyone was having problems running LW under Rosetta. Is it crashing? Not launching?

(FWIW, I am running it just fine on a 2.17ghz MBP here.)

Thanks,
-Chilton

harrio
10-02-2006, 01:55 AM
hello chilton,

i'm honored to get a response from you. i don't want to contribute to the delay of the ub.

it is not launching. i emailed an in depth description to 'tech', 'cs', and 'reg' @newtek. i'll paste the same below. hopefully it's an easy fix and i'm just a noob dunce...

[QUOTE]hello,

i feel like a cretin, because i have the sneaking feeling that this may
be some easy fix that i don't know and couldn't find.

i had 7.5 on my mbp 17, working fine. i bought the 8.5 w/vue infinite
bundle and got the free upgrade to 9.

i have installed them all but now i can only run vue. none of the lw's
will run. not even a dancing icon in the dock, just dead.

i've tried restarts, permissions, quitting translations, dongle driver
installs and i am at a complete loss for what to do.

any help...please...

thank you,

mac platform: macbook pro 17/ 2.15ghz

hope this helps...

MODERATOR SEZ:
um, next time, don't publicly post all yer serial numbers in a public forum, ok?

BazC
10-02-2006, 03:32 AM
Harrio, it's a REALLY bad idea to post your serial nos. I've reported your post, I know this was accidental but they need removing ASAP!

harrio
10-02-2006, 08:24 AM
thank you about the license keys...too trusting i suppose,

also wanted to let chilton know that i am unable to even enter the license keys because none of the version's i have will boot up.